My parents were originally against DVO because of her "Dance Experience" and Kimberly was there favourite. However, in the last two weeks that changed. They started to turn against Kimberly as they didnt think they deserved the 40s, and a perceived favouritism by the judges, at the same time they started to support DVO as they were shocked they were in the bottom two, quite a few family friends were the same. The showdanced just confirned it for them. I wonder how many felt the same?
Imho between DVO amazing showdance, and Louis gymnastic showdance, Kimberly just looked sub standard. Im not saying it was, as im sure a lot of people will come on here and point out how technical it was, but for the untrained eye, it just looked less spectacular than the other two, and just a lot of flinging her hair around.
Or, Louis had been topping/at the top end of the public vote since week one, and would have won even if he had been up against 3 other male celebs and Pudsey the dancing dog :cool:
SCD10 was a thin year for male celebs. Louis had much more voter appeal than Michael and Nicky while Kimberley had to try hard to repel Denise and Dany. But if Louis had gone into Stage 1 against Michael and Nicky plus Kimberley the sole woman I would not have liked to call the outcome.
What voters choose depends on what is put in front of them. If Michael made the Final Natalie would have done everything possible to maximise his voter appeal short of ripping off his shirt, which Katya did with the Welsh boy.
Didn't somebody already dispute that on another thread? Darren Gough won with 2 men and 1 woman in the final. Kara won with 2 women and 1 man. Jill won with 2 women and 1 man. Harry won with 2 men and 1 woman. Mark won with 2 men and 1 woman. Chris won when there were 2 men and 1 woman in a semi final and Natasha won when there were 2 women and 1 man in a semi final. That leaves Alesha, Tom (in a year when it seems highly likely that the voter-preferred top 2 would have been Tom and Austin) and now Louis who won when they were the last one standing of their gender in the final and semi final. That's 3 out of 10. It's not the strongest pattern, is it? Preference for left or right wing political candidates is possibly rather different to a preference for voting for one gender over the other, or at least I'd really hope it is. I'd argue the one is rather more important than the other; people who are determined to only vote left or right wing have probably put rather more thought into what that means, what they want (and don't want) for their country and why they won't vote for the other side than people who prefer to support one gender over the other in reality shows.
In the original finals 3 were reduced to two in the first half (or semis) so this is where the balance should be counted. Of 10 series we have had 3 finals with just male celebrities in the last two; one final with women in the last two and all the rest (bar this year) have been male vs female.
This year had the 3 couple final still been in place it would again have been one male celebrity vs one female celebrity dancing for the final.
In the original finals 3 were reduced to two in the first half (or semis) so this is where the balance should be counted. Of 10 series we have had 3 finals with just male celebrities in the last two; one final with women in the last two and all the rest (bar this year) have been male vs female.
This year had the 3 couple final still been in place it would again have been one male celebrity vs one female celebrity dancing for the final.
Don't forget though, that for the first what? 4? series of Strictly the voting lines opened immediately after the eliminated couple had done their last dance and were open for voting all week.
Does the above factor in the fact that each of the couples is a male/female one anyway - and that in some cases the pro-half can be said to be more popular than the celeb-half. How many of the votes cast were actually cast for the celeb
Pro dancers come in at a high standard and finish at a high standard, so for them the attraction of a dance journey does not arise -- partner empathy perhaps.
In terms of dance CV Matthew Cutler is gold standard world class, and I trust the majority of oldtimers would agree he topped the favourites poll when he was around. Despite Alesha's year Matthew did no better than other male pros, and was unceremoniously turfed out in week 1 partnering Swiss Miss the tennis player.
So if voters liked Matthew they still appeared to be voting for the partnership. Ian is another one well liked, but did not win Strictly either, not even when partnering Zoe Ball.
SCD10 was a thin year for male celebs. Louis had much more voter appeal than Michael and Nicky while Kimberley had to try hard to repel Denise and Dany. But if Louis had gone into Stage 1 against Michael and Nicky plus Kimberley the sole woman I would not have liked to call the outcome.
What voters choose depends on what is put in front of them. If Michael made the Final Natalie would have done everything possible to maximise his voter appeal short of ripping off his shirt, which Katya did with the Welsh boy.
I would. He'd still have coasted it. Whatever Michael and Nicky did. Split vote - meh.
Pro dancers come in at a high standard and finish at a high standard, so for them the attraction of a dance journey does not arise -- partner empathy perhaps.
In terms of dance CV Matthew Cutler is gold standard world class, and I trust the majority of oldtimers would agree he topped the favourites poll when he was around. Despite Alesha's year Matthew did no better than other male pros, and was unceremoniously turfed out in week 1 partnering Swiss Miss the tennis player.
So if voters liked Matthew they still appeared to be voting for the partnership. Ian is another one well liked, but did not win Strictly either, not even when partnering Zoe Ball.
But when factoring in how voters vote in a final situation - doesn't some account have to be taken for the fact that viewers just maybe be voting for a pro they want to win as much as the celeb?
Perhaps some voters felt for James and his heartfelt plea for a glitterball to stand next to Ola's?
Maybe some felt that Pasha deserved it after coming so close last year.
Just perhaps some felt that Flavia - or Vincent - deserved it for all their work over the years.
SCD10 was a thin year for male celebs. Louis had much more voter appeal than Michael and Nicky while Kimberley had to try hard to repel Denise and Dany. But if Louis had gone into Stage 1 against Michael and Nicky plus Kimberley the sole woman I would not have liked to call the outcome.
What voters choose depends on what is put in front of them. If Michael made the Final Natalie would have done everything possible to maximise his voter appeal short of ripping off his shirt, which Katya did with the Welsh boy.
You can't really play fast and loose with the voting patterns for the series to get a result you think favours the arguement you want
With the voting as was in series 10, Louis could never have been up against Michael and Nicky in the final - because Nicky put out Michael. Even without the dance off - one or the other was bottom on the combined score tally and so out.
Didn't somebody already dispute that on another thread? Darren Gough won with 2 men and 1 woman in the final. Kara won with 2 women and 1 man. Jill won with 2 women and 1 man. Harry won with 2 men and 1 woman. Mark won with 2 men and 1 woman. Chris won when there were 2 men and 1 woman in a semi final and Natasha won when there were 2 women and 1 man in a semi final. That leaves Alesha, Tom (in a year when it seems highly likely that the voter-preferred top 2 would have been Tom and Austin) and now Louis who won when they were the last one standing of their gender in the final and semi final. That's 3 out of 10. It's not the strongest pattern, is it? .
Gender is one factor, not saying it is the deciding factor. Anyone wants to say it is no factor at all is welcome to say so.
Darren Gough was the least predicted and least understood winner of them all, I shall leave others to explain that win. Kara would have won against any Glitterball winner as she thrilled both genders and all ages. Jill was regarded as clear best the way Kimberley was not. Harry won with a less popular partner, with what some believe to be massive support from McFly fans. Bookmakers treated him as already past the post from the beginning, possibly from inside info on voting numbers. Mark Ramprakash was much stronger than Matt Dawson. The two men bundled Emma Bunton out of the semifinal, not the final, but Emma was always voter poison, always voted into the bottom two after topping leaderboard.
Chris was the exceptional year where partnership sweetness appealed more than dance finesse. Ali always danced lyrically, always the same, and I suspect bored supporters lost interest, regardless of her advantage when two men split the male vote in the semifinal -- albeit very unevenly, with Ali support so lacklustre that Ricky overtook her.
The essence of the pattern is dilution and near-level split of a support block. This matters most when the leader of the gender is not over-strong, as in Kimberley barely surpassing Dani and Denise. Kimberley had a late 10-10-10-10 run of two good weeks aided by crafty choreography by Pasha. Before the last two weeks she was not always hot. Where 3 candidates were near equal in appeal, the resulting 3-way split ruined everybody's chances. "Divide and Conquer," said Napoleon, and he did.
For those who say vote split is never a factor -- sure you are right, end of my contributions, and a Happy New Year to you.
Stage 1 votes on Final night reflected dance performance during Stage 1, fine. But Stage 1 votes from those who preferred to vote female (e.g. from male voters), were split 3 ways, while Louis gathered in ALL male-preferring votes (with no likeable Michael Vaughan or Westlife Nicky to siphon away votes).
During Stage 2 voting the women celebs laboured against a mere two-way split of woman-preferring votes. However, by then Stage 1 three-way split consequence was already entrenched. In a General Election all parties acknowledge there is the reality of considerable voter predisposition to support either Right or Left, in addition to considerations about the specific local candidate. For 3 Left candidates to consistently stand against 1 Right candidate would be asking for Left defeat due to votes dilution, statistically, in spite of individual successes against the trend.
Aggregation of Stage 1 and 2 votes (though not semifinal votes) reflect dance performances in both stages, great idea. In practice aggregation left hopeful women candidates fighting votes dilution twice -- bad enough in Stage 2 with 2-way split, even worse in Stage 1 with 3-way split. It was hopeless for three divided women, and bookmakers understood this from a mile away.
:eek:
You clearly adore Strictly and love to analyse it to the nth degree.
Or you have Waaaayyy too much time on your hands...
Gender is one factor, not saying it is the deciding factor. Anyone wants to say it is no factor at all is welcome to say so.
Darren Gough was the least predicted and least understood winner of them all, I shall leave others to explain that win. Kara would have won against any Glitterball winner as she thrilled both genders and all ages. Jill was regarded as clear best the way Kimberley was not. Harry won with a less popular partner, with what some believe to be massive support from McFly fans. Bookmakers treated him as already past the post from the beginning, possibly from inside info on voting numbers. Mark Ramprakash was much stronger than Matt Dawson. The two men bundled Emma Bunton out of the semifinal, not the final, but Emma was always voter poison, always voted into the bottom two after topping leaderboard.
Chris was the exceptional year where partnership sweetness appealed more than dance finesse. Ali always danced lyrically, always the same, and I suspect bored supporters lost interest, regardless of her advantage when two men split the male vote in the semifinal -- albeit very unevenly, with Ali support so lacklustre that Ricky overtook her.
The essence of the pattern is dilution and near-level split of a support block. This matters most when the leader of the gender is not over-strong, as in Kimberley barely surpassing Dani and Denise. Kimberley had a late 10-10-10-10 run of two good weeks aided by crafty choreography by Pasha. Before the last two weeks she was not always hot. Where 3 candidates were near equal in appeal, the resulting 3-way split ruined everybody's chances. "Divide and Conquer," said Napoleon, and he did.
For those who say vote split is never a factor -- sure you are right, end of my contributions, and a Happy New Year to you.
The only series, I think, in which the split vote could have come into play was series 5. Two young, personable males who could dance to a reasonable standard up against a female who was better.
We got to a semi-final in which the female did indeed get straight through against the two males. Unfortunately there was a pesky dance-off in the way and other factors. We can guess that Gethin (mucho momentum) could well have topped the public vote and still finished in the dance-off but we don't know. Alesha could have won that vote and the "split vote" could have damaged Gethin/Matt's chances. We know that Alesha beat Matt in the vote but many fans were still spitting teeth at Matt's avoidance of the dance-off the previous week and fact that it dumped Alesha in there. So series 5 tells us little about a possible split vote.
Other series were clear cut. This "least understood" and "least predictable" win of Darren Gough's puzzles me. I knew he was going to win from about half way in and I knew exactly why. And it still makes me want to chuck things . No evidence of a split vote there though.
I've supported but rarely actually picked up the phone to vote for a favourite couple without thinking about their sex.....
As a female viewer my faves have been
Series 1 - Lesley Garret
Series 2 - Denise Lewis
Series 3 - Colin Jackson
Series 4 - Mark Ramprakash
Series 5 - Alesha Dixon
Series 6 - Austin Healey
Series 7 - Chris Hollins
Series 8 - Kara Tointon
Series 9 - Chelsee Healey
Series 10 - Louis Smith
I think that's a 50:50 split.... So the ovaries don't always control who I like!
Philip II of Macedon, actually. Doesn't apply to Strictly though, and certainly not in this series. Even when Louis had his mid series wobble and was in danger according to the judges scores, he never was in the bottom 2, even though that was at the time when it was still possible for there to be a split male vote as Michael & Louis were still in. Whatever combination in the final was, 1 man 1 women, 4 men, 3 women 1 man etc etc I think he still would have walked it as the viewers obviously connected with him from the start of the series.
Philip II of Macedon, actually. Doesn't apply to Strictly though, and certainly not in this series. Even when Louis had his mid series wobble and was in danger according to the judges scores, he never was in the bottom 2, even though that was at the time when it was still possible for there to be a split male vote as Michael & Louis were still in. Whatever combination in the final was, 1 man 1 women, 4 men, 3 women 1 man etc etc I think he still would have walked it as the viewers obviously connected with him from the start of the series.
Phillip said it in Greek, Napoleon said it in French. There, I have been proven to be wrong. :eek::rolleyes:
Phillip's advice would carry less credibility as he did not do much conquering after an early assassination.
There are any number of men on this forum who would happily admit with a smile to only voting for women. The only male dancer on Strictly I would vote for is Matthew Cutler, and he is world class. He could if he wanted to, get back into World Championship Final tomorrow.
Somehow the mere suggestion that some women prefer sometimes to vote for a man always triggers an explosion of righteous fury hell hath not seen, like it was a false accusation of treason. I am going to have to leave the explanation to Sigmund Freud. I give up, it's not worth the aggro.
I am really pleased for Denise to be honest as she was for me consistently the best dancer and I dont have an axe to grind with James like some posters. I thought her showdance was spectacular, yes it had lots of lifts (as did Louis) but it also had a selection of dances she had learnt. Kimberley who I also liked was not so good in the final whether is be because of the judges choice of a dance hardly anyone remembered and THEY wanted to forget as it put them in the bottom 2 or Pasha rather dire showdance choreography, so I performance only in the final Denise deserved to be above Kimberley and Dani. I would have put her before Louis but thats not the point.
re the who women vote for discussion. I have a friend who is a Strictly fan who has never supported a woman in any series of Strictly or any other reality show that she might also watch !!
Somehow the mere suggestion that some women prefer sometimes to vote for a man always triggers an explosion of righteous fury hell hath not seen, like it was a false accusation of treason. I am going to have to leave the explanation to Sigmund Freud. I give up, it's not worth the aggro.
Probably because it's typical of the patriarchal nonsense spouted by men who don't ever want to admit that women are capable of rational thought and aren't governed solely by their emotions, and we're sick to the back teeth of hearing it, when really that kind of opinion should have been left in the 1900s. OK? You've been asserting that some of the female viewers of SCD will find some guy to throw their underwear at and vote blindly for every series; until you can actually back that up with sensible evidence instead of wild assertions based on unfounded generalisations, can I suggest you stop it.
I am really pleased for Denise to be honest as she was for me consistently the best dancer and I dont have an axe to grind with James like some posters. I thought her showdance was spectacular, yes it had lots of lifts (as did Louis) but it also had a selection of dances she had learnt. Kimberley who I also liked was not so good in the final whether is be because of the judges choice of a dance hardly anyone remembered and THEY wanted to forget as it put them in the bottom 2 or Pasha rather dire showdance choreography, so I performance only in the final Denise deserved to be above Kimberley and Dani. I would have put her before Louis but thats not the point.
re the who women vote for discussion. I have a friend who is a Strictly fan who has never supported a woman in any series of Strictly or any other reality show that she might also watch !!
Louis only had two lifts in his showdance Jan which is less than any of the others *I think*, but I'd agree with you that on the night of the final Denise was far better than Kimberley and I think Denises showdance probably had a lot of people picking up the phone for the first time.
Probably because it's typical of the patriarchal nonsense spouted by men who don't ever want to admit that women are capable of rational thought and aren't governed solely by their emotions, and we're sick to the back teeth of hearing it, when really that kind of opinion should have been left in the 1900s. OK? You've been asserting that some of the female viewers of SCD will find some guy to throw their underwear at and vote blindly for every series; until you can actually back that up with sensible evidence instead of wild assertions based on unfounded generalisations, can I suggest you stop it.
At last an explanation.
Men have admitted to irrational response towards females since the days of the cave man, and cheerfully laughed about it. The suggestion is that men are if anything more prone to vote for women than women are prone to vote for men. Far far fewer men actually vote, so on Strictly this effect counts for less.
Men are not insulted that women turn their heads, they just laugh about it and carrying on doing same. Going off to do something more profitable now.
Comments
I find it hard to disagree with your post.:)
SCD10 was a thin year for male celebs. Louis had much more voter appeal than Michael and Nicky while Kimberley had to try hard to repel Denise and Dany. But if Louis had gone into Stage 1 against Michael and Nicky plus Kimberley the sole woman I would not have liked to call the outcome.
What voters choose depends on what is put in front of them. If Michael made the Final Natalie would have done everything possible to maximise his voter appeal short of ripping off his shirt, which Katya did with the Welsh boy.
In the original finals 3 were reduced to two in the first half (or semis) so this is where the balance should be counted. Of 10 series we have had 3 finals with just male celebrities in the last two; one final with women in the last two and all the rest (bar this year) have been male vs female.
This year had the 3 couple final still been in place it would again have been one male celebrity vs one female celebrity dancing for the final.
Don't forget though, that for the first what? 4? series of Strictly the voting lines opened immediately after the eliminated couple had done their last dance and were open for voting all week.
Pro dancers come in at a high standard and finish at a high standard, so for them the attraction of a dance journey does not arise -- partner empathy perhaps.
In terms of dance CV Matthew Cutler is gold standard world class, and I trust the majority of oldtimers would agree he topped the favourites poll when he was around. Despite Alesha's year Matthew did no better than other male pros, and was unceremoniously turfed out in week 1 partnering Swiss Miss the tennis player.
So if voters liked Matthew they still appeared to be voting for the partnership. Ian is another one well liked, but did not win Strictly either, not even when partnering Zoe Ball.
I would. He'd still have coasted it. Whatever Michael and Nicky did. Split vote - meh.
But when factoring in how voters vote in a final situation - doesn't some account have to be taken for the fact that viewers just maybe be voting for a pro they want to win as much as the celeb?
Perhaps some voters felt for James and his heartfelt plea for a glitterball to stand next to Ola's?
Maybe some felt that Pasha deserved it after coming so close last year.
Just perhaps some felt that Flavia - or Vincent - deserved it for all their work over the years.
You can't really play fast and loose with the voting patterns for the series to get a result you think favours the arguement you want
With the voting as was in series 10, Louis could never have been up against Michael and Nicky in the final - because Nicky put out Michael. Even without the dance off - one or the other was bottom on the combined score tally and so out.
Gender is one factor, not saying it is the deciding factor. Anyone wants to say it is no factor at all is welcome to say so.
Darren Gough was the least predicted and least understood winner of them all, I shall leave others to explain that win. Kara would have won against any Glitterball winner as she thrilled both genders and all ages. Jill was regarded as clear best the way Kimberley was not. Harry won with a less popular partner, with what some believe to be massive support from McFly fans. Bookmakers treated him as already past the post from the beginning, possibly from inside info on voting numbers. Mark Ramprakash was much stronger than Matt Dawson. The two men bundled Emma Bunton out of the semifinal, not the final, but Emma was always voter poison, always voted into the bottom two after topping leaderboard.
Chris was the exceptional year where partnership sweetness appealed more than dance finesse. Ali always danced lyrically, always the same, and I suspect bored supporters lost interest, regardless of her advantage when two men split the male vote in the semifinal -- albeit very unevenly, with Ali support so lacklustre that Ricky overtook her.
The essence of the pattern is dilution and near-level split of a support block. This matters most when the leader of the gender is not over-strong, as in Kimberley barely surpassing Dani and Denise. Kimberley had a late 10-10-10-10 run of two good weeks aided by crafty choreography by Pasha. Before the last two weeks she was not always hot. Where 3 candidates were near equal in appeal, the resulting 3-way split ruined everybody's chances. "Divide and Conquer," said Napoleon, and he did.
For those who say vote split is never a factor -- sure you are right, end of my contributions, and a Happy New Year to you.
:eek:
You clearly adore Strictly and love to analyse it to the nth degree.
Or you have Waaaayyy too much time on your hands...
The only series, I think, in which the split vote could have come into play was series 5. Two young, personable males who could dance to a reasonable standard up against a female who was better.
We got to a semi-final in which the female did indeed get straight through against the two males. Unfortunately there was a pesky dance-off in the way and other factors. We can guess that Gethin (mucho momentum) could well have topped the public vote and still finished in the dance-off but we don't know. Alesha could have won that vote and the "split vote" could have damaged Gethin/Matt's chances. We know that Alesha beat Matt in the vote but many fans were still spitting teeth at Matt's avoidance of the dance-off the previous week and fact that it dumped Alesha in there. So series 5 tells us little about a possible split vote.
Other series were clear cut. This "least understood" and "least predictable" win of Darren Gough's puzzles me. I knew he was going to win from about half way in and I knew exactly why. And it still makes me want to chuck things
As a female viewer my faves have been
Series 1 - Lesley Garret
Series 2 - Denise Lewis
Series 3 - Colin Jackson
Series 4 - Mark Ramprakash
Series 5 - Alesha Dixon
Series 6 - Austin Healey
Series 7 - Chris Hollins
Series 8 - Kara Tointon
Series 9 - Chelsee Healey
Series 10 - Louis Smith
I think that's a 50:50 split.... So the ovaries don't always control who I like!
Philip II of Macedon, actually. Doesn't apply to Strictly though, and certainly not in this series. Even when Louis had his mid series wobble and was in danger according to the judges scores, he never was in the bottom 2, even though that was at the time when it was still possible for there to be a split male vote as Michael & Louis were still in. Whatever combination in the final was, 1 man 1 women, 4 men, 3 women 1 man etc etc I think he still would have walked it as the viewers obviously connected with him from the start of the series.
Yeah, but he was thinking of Strictly when he said it.;):D
Phillip said it in Greek, Napoleon said it in French. There, I have been proven to be wrong. :eek::rolleyes:
Phillip's advice would carry less credibility as he did not do much conquering after an early assassination.
There are any number of men on this forum who would happily admit with a smile
Somehow the mere suggestion that some women prefer sometimes to vote for a man always triggers an explosion of righteous fury hell hath not seen, like it was a false accusation of treason. I am going to have to leave the explanation to Sigmund Freud. I give up, it's not worth the aggro.
YEEHAH!!
That's all I've got to say on the matter, really. I'll leave everyone else to debate the iniquity - or otherwise - of this putative result.
Well done guys.
re the who women vote for discussion. I have a friend who is a Strictly fan who has never supported a woman in any series of Strictly or any other reality show that she might also watch !!
It's either that or contemplate your navel.
Strictly has dancing and sparkly stuff which sets it apart from most navels - except maybe those of belly dancers.
When contemplating the navel please bear in mind not to raise the shoulders.
Len
Probably because it's typical of the patriarchal nonsense spouted by men who don't ever want to admit that women are capable of rational thought and aren't governed solely by their emotions, and we're sick to the back teeth of hearing it, when really that kind of opinion should have been left in the 1900s. OK? You've been asserting that some of the female viewers of SCD will find some guy to throw their underwear at and vote blindly for every series; until you can actually back that up with sensible evidence instead of wild assertions based on unfounded generalisations, can I suggest you stop it.
With Christmas over indulgence, some of us can't find our navels!:D
Louis only had two lifts in his showdance Jan which is less than any of the others *I think*, but I'd agree with you that on the night of the final Denise was far better than Kimberley and I think Denises showdance probably had a lot of people picking up the phone for the first time.
They become increasingly elusive with age, I find.
At last an explanation.
Men have admitted to irrational response towards females since the days of the cave man, and cheerfully laughed about it. The suggestion is that men are if anything more prone to vote for women than women are prone to vote for men. Far far fewer men actually vote, so on Strictly this effect counts for less.
Men are not insulted that women turn their heads, they just laugh about it and carrying on doing same. Going off to do something more profitable now.