Has Richard Dawkins lost the plot?

WutheringWuthering Posts: 1,071
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He seems to be getting more and more offensive and rather than learn from his mistakes he just doesn't it again and again.

Is it me or has he been coming across as rather unhinged during the last couple of years? Admittedly I'm not a fan of the bloke but I accept that he's very respected in his field, so am curious to see what those who follow his work think. The way he choses to voice his opinions on things like rape and abortion are surely unacceptable, whatever your own views on the matter?
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  • epicurianepicurian Posts: 19,291
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    I'm not a follower, but his recent tweets about date rape vs stranger rape were quite bizarre.

    I liked Jezebel's answer to him.
    http://jezebel.com/thank-goodness-richard-dawkins-has-finally-mansplained-1612746602
  • Bex_123Bex_123 Posts: 10,783
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    He's a very intelligent man but he does come out with some strange things lately. It's like he's trying to be controversial.
    epicurian wrote: »
    I'm not a follower, but his recent tweets about date rape vs stranger rape were quite bizarre.

    That was very odd. I suppose you can see his point about logic, that saying something is worse than something else is not an endorsement of either. But not sure why he had to use a subject which would obviously provoke and anger people, unless it was just done purely for attention.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 17,021
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    Saw him speak once (in the 90s) and really looked up to him, but in the last couple of years I've gone right off him.

    At best he's doing it to shock people and keep the attention on himself. But I think he's just lost the plot.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 6,899
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    He IS offensive with everything he says.
  • epicurianepicurian Posts: 19,291
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    Bex_123 wrote: »
    He's a very intelligent man but he does come out with some strange things lately. It's like he's trying to be controversial.



    That was very odd. I suppose you can see his point about logic, that saying something is worse than something else is not an endorsement of either. But not sure why he had to use a subject which would obviously provoke and anger people.

    Why he thinks he can be logical about something like this in the first place, is my question.

    From that link: "If we're going to be generous, what Dawkins might have been getting at is that some rapes affect victims more profoundly than other rapes affect other victims and that he personally feels, as a man who has not been raped, that certain rapes must be worse than other rapes for people who are not Richard Dawkins. But the experience of rape is so subjective and personal to people — women and men — who experience it that speaking in absolutes about it is, to use an academic phrase, ****ing asinine. Saying with laughable certainty that rape can be neatly categorized and quantified in terms of "bad," and that certain categories always affect victims more profoundly than other categories is about as logical as definitively ranking other sensory and emotional experiences."
  • Bex_123Bex_123 Posts: 10,783
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    epicurian wrote: »
    Why he thinks he can be logical about something like this in the first place, is my question.

    From that link: "If we're going to be generous, what Dawkins might have been getting at is that some rapes affect victims more profoundly than other rapes affect other victims and that he personally feels, as a man who has not been raped, that certain rapes must be worse than other rapes for people who are not Richard Dawkins. But the experience of rape is so subjective and personal to people — women and men — who experience it that speaking in absolutes about it is, to use an academic phrase, ****ing asinine. Saying with laughable certainty that rape can be neatly categorized and quantified in terms of "bad," and that certain categories always affect victims more profoundly than other categories is about as logical as definitively ranking other sensory and emotional experiences."

    Absolutely. All I mean is if he wanted to make that point, about thinking one thing is worse than another doesn't mean you endorse the latter, he could have done it in any number of ways. Making it about date rape is ridiculous, and very offensive to those who have been through it.
  • Serial LurkerSerial Lurker Posts: 10,763
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    It's all been downhill with him since Ricky Gervais started associating with him.
  • bollywoodbollywood Posts: 67,769
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    Maybe he is trying to cope with his own sexual assault by minimizing it ( not such a big deal).

    Whereas maybe it was.

    I don't know just guessing as that is a typical defense mechanism.
  • dorydaryldorydaryl Posts: 15,927
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    There are some issues that demand more than rationality, logic and reason. Other human attributes are not superfluous to these, although some people seem to think that they ought to be. I'll be honest and admit to not reading any of Dawkins' works in any detail so could be on a sticky wicket, here, but his latest pronouncement about Downs Syndrome and abortion on Twitter has put me right off anything else he has to say. If he actually meant something more far complex, then Twitter was probably not the place to air his views on the matter. If he meant what he actually said in brief, then the man is an ar*e.

    ETA: Having worked with academics and some very clever people, I've experienced enough of that environment to know that some are so self-absorbed with their own intellect that, with a bit of encouragement from those who fawn over them, they really can disappear up their own fundament to the exclusion of accepting any concept that opposes or challenges their own. It's very disconcerting. Intelligence can be a curse as well as a blessing.
  • Mrs TeapotMrs Teapot Posts: 124,896
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    When you set up a summer camp for kids and get them to sing along to John Lennon's Imagine then you sort of wonder, but hey that's a few years ago!

    He does have his flock, sorry I meant followers.
  • Keyser_Soze1Keyser_Soze1 Posts: 25,182
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    Saw him speak once (in the 90s) and really looked up to him, but in the last couple of years I've gone right off him.

    At best he's doing it to shock people and keep the attention on himself. But I think he's just lost the plot.

    I must stress that these are not my views. :D
  • SULLASULLA Posts: 149,789
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    I had to google him. I had never heard of him. :confused:
  • HypnodiscHypnodisc Posts: 22,728
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    I must admit I can see what he's saying?

    It doesn't seem odd to me being 'pro-choice' and also 'pro-genetic screening'.

    I've known people with disabilities that wouldn't have children because they wouldn't want to risk passing their genetics on to their children.

    I kinda feel in that boat myself a bit, to be honest.

    If I could ensure no child of mine could ever have a serious mental illness I'd pay whatever the cost was.
  • The FBIThe FBI Posts: 2,205
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    SULLA wrote: »
    I had to google him. I had never heard of him. :confused:

    Haha :D:D
  • droogiefretdroogiefret Posts: 24,117
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    SULLA wrote: »
    I had to google him. I had never heard of him. :confused:

    Never mind Sulla, one day you'll be a real boy! :D
  • WutheringWuthering Posts: 1,071
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    dorydaryl wrote: »
    ETA: Having worked with academics and some very clever people, I've experienced enough of that environment to know that some are so self-absorbed with their own intellect that, with a bit of encouragement from those who fawn over them, they really can disappear up their own fundament to the exclusion of accepting any concept that opposes or challenges their own. It's very disconcerting. Intelligence can be a curse as well as a blessing.

    I've encountered similiar attitudes among academics online. I find it so unnerving when people try to insist emotions shouldn't ever be a factor in anything, when to me emotion is what makes us human.
  • Mrs TeapotMrs Teapot Posts: 124,896
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    Hypnodisc wrote: »
    I must admit I can see what he's saying?

    It doesn't seem odd to me being 'pro-choice' and also 'pro-genetic screening'.

    I've known people with disabilities that wouldn't have children because they wouldn't want to risk passing their genetics on to their children.

    I kinda feel in that boat myself a bit, to be honest.

    If I could ensure no child of mine could ever have a serious mental illness I'd pay whatever the cost was.

    But isn't that playing God so to speak?
  • WutheringWuthering Posts: 1,071
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    Hypnodisc wrote: »
    I must admit I can see what he's saying?

    My issue isn't really his opinion, it's in the way he's expressed it. He comes across as though nobody's feelings should ever matter, like having feelings is something dirty to be ashamed of. Also, is Twitter the best place to talk about such a thing? You really can't have a proper debate on Twitter so I don't know why people try, as it's inevitable meaning and intent will not come across within the 140 limit.
  • bollywoodbollywood Posts: 67,769
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    Mrs Teapot wrote: »
    But isn't that playing God so to speak?

    We play God when we have amniocentesis if that is the case.
  • Get Den WattsGet Den Watts Posts: 6,039
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    I was never a fan (he came across as too carried away with his own assumed brilliance) but I do admit it has been funny watching him now wind-up the people who used to think he could do and say no wrong. :D
  • Joni MJoni M Posts: 70,225
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    SULLA wrote: »
    I had to google him. I had never heard of him. :confused:
    :D
    :D:D:D
    :D
    :D
    :D

    (Hope that's not offensive Sulla)
  • SULLASULLA Posts: 149,789
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    Joni M wrote: »
    :D
    :D:D:D
    :D
    :D
    :D

    (Hope that's not offensive Sulla)

    Every church seems to have one.
  • Joni MJoni M Posts: 70,225
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    Wuthering wrote: »
    He seems to be getting more and more offensive and rather than learn from his mistakes he just doesn't it again and again.

    Is it me or has he been coming across as rather unhinged during the last couple of years? Admittedly I'm not a fan of the bloke but I accept that he's very respected in his field, so am curious to see what those who follow his work think. The way he choses to voice his opinions on things like rape and abortion are surely unacceptable, whatever your own views on the matter?

    What's he been saying please?
  • HypnodiscHypnodisc Posts: 22,728
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    Mrs Teapot wrote: »
    But isn't that playing God so to speak?

    Isn't that sort of the idea?

    As humanity becomes more and more developed, and the ceaseless march toward scientific progress continues this sort of thing will just become normal.

    As an atheist I certainly don't have any religious objections.

    Ethics are the most important thing here - but I personally don't really see a real ethical problem in slowly ironing out disability to prevent suffering from occurring in the first place.

    As somebody with disabilities I'd really rather not have them and wouldn't have children because I wouldn't want them to be screwed up too.
    Wuthering wrote: »
    My issue isn't really his opinion, it's in the way he's expressed it. He comes across as though nobody's feelings should ever matter, like having feelings is something dirty to be ashamed of. Also, is Twitter the best place to talk about such a thing? You really can't have a proper debate on Twitter so I don't know why people try, as it's inevitable meaning and intent will not come across within the 140 limit.

    Well quite, I'll concede Twitter was a poor place to express this, not least because of the idiot masses.
  • Mrs TeapotMrs Teapot Posts: 124,896
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    bollywood wrote: »
    We play God when we have amniocentesis if that is the case.

    I agree depending on decisions regarding the results but isn't pro-genetic screening a type of eradication of conditions?
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