Terrestrial DX (Atmospherics affecting TV reception)

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  • brumlad36brumlad36 Posts: 2,802
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    rapido wrote: »
    Yes, it's most appreciated!

    I will have to see what I can rig up in the next month or so - I'll have to get a rotator first!

    I already have an unused 4 element VHF/FM aerial, and will probably get an Omega 14 or similar for UHF.

    Here are my photos from last night - I took loads, but here are the best:

    http://i55.tinypic.com/15rjjg6.jpg (TF1, Dunkirk)
    http://i54.tinypic.com/v3ix3k.jpg (France 2, Lille)
    http://i54.tinypic.com/jj1t9u.jpg (France 3, Dunkirk)
    http://i51.tinypic.com/1owxz7.jpg (France 3 teletext, Dunkirk)

    Notice the "SECAM fire" that occurs with the above weak signals - colours dancing all over the screen. Compare to a weak PAL signal and no fire:

    http://i55.tinypic.com/307uq01.jpg (BBC2, Tacolneston)

    I was just pointing a Maxview Truvision indoor aerial out of the window. I probably could've got better pictures with an outdoor aerial, but I was very happy with what I received. As I only recently got this tv which is able to decode SECAM pictures... and those French analogue transmissions will be discontinued in a couple of months time... therefore, the timing was perfect!

    -rapido

    Wow, you did really well to get those pics on an indoor set-top aerial! I know SECAM colour is really poor on weak(ish) signals (all the streaking etc). In the summer I was getting Belarus on Band I (using the aerial in the pic I posted above). They use SECAM, and pictures looked better in B & W. I used to receive the Band III TX from Lille (CH L5 Canal Plus), when I lived in Walsall. When I moved to Lincoln in May this year, that TX had been swiched off :(

    Chris.
  • kevkev Posts: 21,070
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    Sandy Heath is wiping out all of the Nottingham analogue services here - nothing on Digital TV or DAB though
  • radioredcatradioredcat Posts: 1,943
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    Hi cris/rapido the rotator looks like a (channel master) as i have just like it that i bought in 1980,I use a hirschmann rotator now but still have the old C/M rotator in the garage as a spare.

    The french station on CH 63 was TF1 so i'll have to look that up,I am seriously considering an aerial vertically polarised for dutch tv.

    Things do seem to settling down a bit but still no wrekin besause rowridge/oxford are still strong.


    andy
  • brumlad36brumlad36 Posts: 2,802
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    kev wrote: »
    Sandy Heath is wiping out all of the Nottingham analogue services here - nothing on Digital TV or DAB though

    Conditions here in Lincoln are pretty much back to normal. I'm getting signals from SH, but nothing to write home about.

    Chris.
  • pjayem1964pjayem1964 Posts: 279
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    On Analogue I am picking up BBC Yorkshire/Lincolnshire from Stoke on Trent. (Upstairs aerial is Waltham facing). Watching Look North at the moment.

    Bye for now

    Paula

    PS Just seen Calendar showing similar weather map. Is this possibly Belmont Transmitter I'm receiving?
  • brumlad36brumlad36 Posts: 2,802
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    pjayem1964 wrote: »
    On Analogue I am picking up BBC Yorkshire/Lincolnshire from Stoke on Trent. (Upstairs aerial is Waltham facing). Watching Look North at the moment.

    Bye for now

    Paula

    That will be Belmont transmitter on channel 22. In that case you may also get ITV1 (Calendar) on channel 25, BBC2 on channel 28, and CH4 on channel 32, from the same transmitter. It's 15 miles away from here and 500KW x4 channels, so very powerful. CH5 is on channel 56, but only 50KW.

    Chris
  • pjayem1964pjayem1964 Posts: 279
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    Hi Chris,

    Analogue signal is a bit ropey and up and down for Belmont, Digital is ok on Waltham but no Mux D at present for the Freeview TV. No foreign channels for me this time but the last time we had the atmospherics I got Belgian channels, Een, Ketnet, Canvas etc.

    Bye for now,

    Paula
  • brumlad36brumlad36 Posts: 2,802
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    pjayem1964 wrote: »
    Hi Chris,

    Analogue signal is a bit ropey and up and down for Belmont, Digital is ok on Waltham but no Mux D at present for the Freeview TV. No foreign channels for me this time but the last time we had the atmospherics I got Belgian channels, Een, Ketnet, Canvas etc.

    Bye for now,

    Paula

    It seems strange that you have a Waltham aerial in Stoke on Trent. If not Fenton, I would have thought you'd receive from either The Wrekin (Shropshire) or Sutton Coldfield, or maybe even Winter Hill. Do you know if it's a Wideband aerial or a Group C/D (for Waltham analogue)?
    When I lived in Walsall I received the Belgian channels you mentioned, on digital MUX channel 22. Did you get the digital multiplex?

    Chris.
  • pjayem1964pjayem1964 Posts: 279
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    brumlad36 wrote: »
    It seems strange that you have a Waltham aerial in Stoke on Trent. If not Fenton, I would have thought you'd receive from either The Wrekin (Shropshire) or Sutton Coldfield, or maybe even Winter Hill. Do you know if it's a Wideband aerial or a Group C/D (for Waltham analogue)?
    When I lived in Walsall I received the Belgian channels you mentioned, on digital MUX channel 22. Did you get the digital multiplex?

    Chris.

    Hi again Chris,

    I was advised by the aerial installer at the time of having Freeview several years ago that I would receive more channels if my aerial faced Waltham. I live in a hilly part of Stoke on Trent and most aerials where I live face the Sutton Coldfield transmitter, not Fenton. At the time, Sutton Coldfield's freeview coverage was not so good.

    I remember the aerial installer saying 'If you don't mind getting Nottingham news' you'll get a few more channels. The freeview postcode checkers were showing no service.

    I have a wideband aerial for the upstairs (Waltham), and a group B aerial for the downstairs (Sutton Coldfield facing aerial)

    Hope this clears things up?

    Bye for now,

    Paula

    PS I couldn't tell you the channel number of the Belgian Mux but I was excited to pick up the channels if I remember correctly.
  • brumlad36brumlad36 Posts: 2,802
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    pjayem1964 wrote: »
    Hi again Chris,

    I was advised by the aerial installer at the time of having Freeview several years ago that I would receive more channels if my aerial faced Waltham. I live in a hilly part of Stoke on Trent and most aerials where I live face the Sutton Coldfield transmitter, not Fenton. At the time, Sutton Coldfield's freeview coverage was not so good.

    I remember the aerial installer saying 'If you don't mind getting Nottingham news' you'll get a few more channels. The freeview postcode checkers were showing no service.

    I have a wideband aerial for the upstairs (Waltham), and a group B aerial for the downstairs (Sutton Coldfield facing aerial)

    Hope this clears things up?

    Bye for now,

    Paula

    PS I couldn't tell you the channel number of the Belgian Mux but I was excited to pick up the channels if I remember correctly.

    Sounds like you know what you're talking about. I would never have thought that Waltham would get over to where you are! As you have a wideband aerial on Waltham, Belmont is not that far off the same direction from where you are. Also your aerial would be pointing south-east, just right for continental reception :)

    Chris.
  • pjayem1964pjayem1964 Posts: 279
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    brumlad36 wrote: »
    Sounds like you know what you're talking about. I would never have thought that Waltham would get over to where you are! As you have a wideband aerial on Waltham, Belmont is not that far off the same direction from where you are. Also your aerial would be pointing south-east, just right for continental reception :)

    Chris.

    Usually, Upstairs, we get Sandy Heath's analogue when the 'Wind's in the East' as I call it so it's a surprise to get Belmont this time ;-)
  • brumlad36brumlad36 Posts: 2,802
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    pjayem1964 wrote: »
    Usually, Upstairs, we get Sandy Heath's analogue when the 'Wind's in the East' as I call it so it's a surprise to get Belmont this time ;-)

    Yes, your aerial would be pretty much in line with SH. Maybe you should try for Sudbury, as your aerial points directly that way. Channels are 41, 44, 47, 51 for the main 4. Emley Moor uses the same channels, but your aerial would be 90 degrees away from there.

    Chris.
  • marcltmarclt Posts: 249
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    Have a look out for Irish DTT if the HPA is moving west.

    Last night was getting a strong signal on the RTENL mux from Mullaghanish on the Cork/Kerry border on Ch. 21.

    Later in the night and into this morning Ch. 55 (Three Rock) was best.
  • a516a516 Posts: 5,241
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    OK folks what do you think of the following article, as published in today's Derby Telegraph:
    http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/news/TV-viewers-city-lose-digital-channels-hit-reception-problems/article-2752323-detail/article.html
    Terry Sparkes, who runs a Derby company supplying and fitting TV aerials, said the bulk of the problems had been on Sunday night, affecting mainly ITV channels.

    He said he did not believe high air pressure was to blame, adding: "They went across to digital because it's not affected by atmospheric problems."

    He said the likely cause was a problem with a transmitter at Waltham-on-the-Wolds, Leicestershire.

    IMO What a load of rubbish.

    Sufficient evidence on this and other threads that it was not a single transmitter issue and that atmospheric conditions were widely affecting TV and Radio reception (and enhancing distance reception) across England and Wales.

    There's an option to comment at the bottom of that article.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 12,395
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    Whether intentional to mislead or not that does give a bad impression. Good job the article quoted the Met Office to counter the installers clueless comments.
  • brumlad36brumlad36 Posts: 2,802
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    a516 wrote: »
    OK folks what do you think of the following article, as published in today's Derby Telegraph:
    http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/news/TV-viewers-city-lose-digital-channels-hit-reception-problems/article-2752323-detail/article.html



    IMO What a load of rubbish.

    Sufficient evidence on this and other threads that it was not a single transmitter issue and that atmospheric conditions were widely affecting TV and Radio reception (and enhancing distance reception) across England and Wales.

    There's an option to comment at the bottom of that article.

    Exactly, what rubbish! I certainly wouldn't use that company. Just feel sorry for the unsuspecting public of Derby.

    Chris.
  • grahamlthompsongrahamlthompson Posts: 18,486
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    Clearly one of the "YOU NEED A DIGITAL AERIAL FOR DIGITAL brigade. If he is a CAI member (doubtfull) he should be reported if only for his total ignorance. I hope someone who knows what they are talking about follows up the article. Name & Shame I say.

    He clearly thinks digital arrives at your aerial as a digital signal rather than an analogue uhf carrier that happens to have digital rather than analogue data modulated onto the carrier
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,040
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    a516 wrote: »
    "He said the likely cause was a problem with a transmitter at Waltham-on-the-Wolds, Leicestershire."

    Better to blame the transmitter and get more £ than admit it's a problem which will quickly go away.

    Funnily enough, on the UK Free TV blog, a tv dealer (who also does aerials) said that the talk of inversion was "rubbish" and that there is a fault with the Oxford transmitter.

    It pays to mislead.

    -rapido
  • a516a516 Posts: 5,241
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    Making money out of ignorance, using their position/job title to make people think they know what they are talking about. Should these installers be a member of a trade organisation, they should be chucked out.

    At least the BBC is telling people the right thing: http://faq.external.bbc.co.uk/questions/help_receiving/reception_north_eastengland
  • radioredcatradioredcat Posts: 1,943
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    So how would they explain our DDT reception from germany and reception from near enough every transmitter from the south of england and analogue from france because i don't get this every day.

    Some people do say some rubbish for their own ends just for the record there's nowt wrong with the oxford transmitter its reaching to me at 134 miles.

    ANDY
  • a516a516 Posts: 5,241
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    Just noticed that Freeview had published a service update yesterday about the problems:
    http://www1.freeview.co.uk/Resolutions/High-pressure-affecting-Freeview-reception

    Better late than never: posting for the benefit of any casual forum reader (for copyright reasons the full text is only available at the above link)...
    We’re aware that unusually high atmospheric pressure occurring at present is causing reception problems across parts of the UK. Once the area of high pressure has moved on, your reception should return to normal.

    <snip>

    This occurrence should be significantly reduced with digital switchover as the digital television signal incorporates the ability to ignore reflected digital signals.


    Interesting bit about the post-DSO signal having the ability to ignore reflected digital signals.

    Is that due to the change from 2k to 8k :confused:?

    I've noticed that although there have been reports from post-DSO regions, most of the comments have been about receiving analogue services again and receiving Irish DTT but not many about actually losing their normal DTT signal, despite the fact that the lift conditions have moved westward since Sunday evening.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,040
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    a516 wrote: »
    Is that due to the change from 2k to 8k :confused:?

    No, I think it means that there will be no distant analogue signals to interfere with local digital signals.

    As far as I understand it, the COFDM digital transmission specification used for DVB-T incorporates the ability to ignore interference from unwanted digital transmitters.

    -rapido
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 279
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    But people have been receiving DIGITAL broadcasts from distant transmitters, we've seen a fair few pics of Dutch and German channels received and decoded.

    My aerial faces south - lets say I'm watching something that will be on the Emley Moor multiplex on ch41(after switchover) - then another signal from overseas arrives at my aerial on the same channel during the next "high pressure" occurrence - if the receiver receives 2 broadcasts, different channels, different countries even, on the same frequency what will it display?
  • megabytemegabyte Posts: 334
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    We received winter hill here in south east Ireland fairly well on Tuesday night and also rowridge digital!

    But the biggest surprise was french tv with quality of 90% and strength of 50% on ch's 36 and 38

    ch 38 had :direct 8
    bfm tv
    i>tele
    directstar
    Guilli
    France 4

    ch 36 had :

    tf1
    nrj12
    eurosport
    lci
    tmc
    tf6

    Which French transmitter was that?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,332
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    It is true that reflections are not much of a problem in DTT, in COFDM the guard interval allows for reflected signals to (within a reasonable range) constructively interfere to actually produce a better signal. A correctly configured system will actually benefit from reflections in the form of improved quality rather than on analogue where ghosting occurs disrupting reception. However where the reflections are beyond the guard interval the reflected signal will interfere.

    This is different to interference from other signals probably being broadcast from other regions, this can affect either analogue or digital depending on the environment (e.g.: topography, transmitter (configuration, location & power), weather (location & strength) and national/international frequency plans).
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