You don't see why ancestry is important?
We might as well cancel history lessons and close all museums.
Well I want to know about things like the Battle of Waterloo, but I don't see any point in celebrating it. Same with any historic event. Useful to know, pointless to keep making an issue of.
Nothing wrong with museums for those who are interested in visiting them. Funny thing is, they don't affect people's lives.
This is coming from a heated discussion in the Big Brother forum about Brian not being black enough.
I think it is wonderful if you can say that you are African or Carribbean or what have you. But some of us can't.
I am a black American woman, and based on the comments directed at me from that thread, other posters have slated me for being ashamed of my "Africaness" and saying that I have an identity problem.
I choose not to call myself African-American, because I am not from Africa. None of my family, barring a cousin by marriage are African. My family has been in the USA since the 18th century. My great-grandmother's mother was 1/4 black and she was actually born in a free state, kidnapped, and sold into slavery. My paternal great-grandmother was part Irish and Chinese; my grandmother's granny was English and Irish. There is some Dutch thrown in, thanks to a slaveowner, plus some Mexican and Native American that occured somewhere.
When my cousin researched our family, she found that our African ancestor was way back. Both my parents and my sisters are dark-skinned black people; I am much fairer skinned than they are.
I am quite happy to be who I am, but African is not how I choose to identify myself. I feel it would be ridiculous-- just as it would be crazy for me to call myself Irish.
Yet, some people have said that I am ignorant of my history and that because of the mish-mash of races in my family. They say that I am not really black because of this. Bollocks.
Why is it that white people are never asked if they are white enough? That white Americans can be American, but I have a tag from a country that I don't identify with as my heritage.
I would love to know what part of Africa my ancestors came from. I would love to be able to visit that place and say, "wow, this is where I started." But I can't, so I am quite happy to say that my folks came from Mississippi and Kentucky. I am happy that my people overcame the Jim Crow south and built happy families, got good jobs, found some wealth and own property.
I am not a fan of a lot of R&B music, I don't speak with a "black" accent, (whatever the hell that is). I have married outside of my race, even though the guy that I was wildly in love with was black, and I was certain I was going to marry him. I know my history and I am aware of the struggles and trials that black people worldwide encounter.
Maybe it is the alcohol, but I am sick to the back teeth of black people pulling each other apart about who's black enough. Jesus, after 5 years of living in Scotland, I have yet to hear if white people are white enough.
Is it enough for black people just to be ruddy black, without the attachments? Sorry for the rant, but I am a little drunk and a lot angry.
Hi! great post!
You are the sum total of a whole lot of cultures, and it sounds fascinating, all the things you found out. Until recently I had no evidence of any non- British forbears so I have always thought of myself as utterly English (mainly) but going further back I have forbears from every country in Europe and Asia Minor, which I am quite excited about actually.
Each one of those strands goes to make up the whole picture... same for you. I often feel quite sad that a lot of people concentrate solely on that side which gives them certain physical characteristics, (such as darker skin) as they miss out a whole lot of interesting stuff on the other strands that make them up.
Whatever ones colouring, there will always be uncomfortable information to cope with somewhere along the line.. rape and incest etc in all walks of life, but a mixture of racial genes can also mean courageous young people in love who followed their hearts rather than convention.
I wish everyone would be interested in all their ancestors and their stories, even when they weren't nice people as it gives us a much more in depth view of the past and through understanding that, possibly some insight into the future
Well I want to know about things like the Battle of Waterloo, but I don't see any point in celebrating it. Same with any historic event. Useful to know, pointless to keep making an issue of.
Nothing wrong with museums for those who are interested in visiting them. Funny thing is, they don't affect people's lives.
Culture is about more than museums. Food, dress, music etc are all part of the present day and affect people from day to day - ask any ex-pat.
People should be allowed to investigate their roots but it's a personal decision, not something that can be dictated by other people of whatever race. The OP's friend was acting irrationally.
Nobody can forego their ancestry. I just don't see why it's that important. It certainly shouldn't mean a bar on inter racial adoption, or indeed, any form of prejudice in this regard.
The person should have the right to choose. No-one is saying forget your ancestry. That is rubbish.
What is being said, is that the person should have the right to choose to behave, - for want of a better way to say it - as an Essex boy rather than as a Nigerian boy. So if he wants to go out with blonde burds and drink cidar, rather than kneel to his elders, then so be it.
You seem to be saying that whatever the desire of the person they must conform to the cultural standard of their parents/ancestors origin, which is ridiculous.
In Empire's Children, on tv recently, several descendants of immigrants went back to their country of ancestral origin. At least one remarked how her relatives standards of behaviour were more like the standards of the 1950's when they left the country, whereas the original country had moved on and become more relaxed about the same issues.
Times change and so do people. Seeking to impose an artificial way of living on someone, which may not even still exist in the original country, is senseless.
I more or less said that here, Parents teach their kids these things, whether or not the child chooses to acknowledge them is up to the individual.
but, you ignored it to pursure your own agenda.
I watched Empire's children . . funny that they went back to the whole ancestry thing again in that show. With Adrian Lester (as well as other people) tracing their roots and what not.
The above is the context to my reply.
Cybergirl is saying that if you are black then you MUST carry with you the cultural heritage of your ancestors. And she gives examples of parents teaching cultural things to their children and saying that this is your culture. I don't agree with that.
The children's culture is the culture of where they live. Yes it is nice to know these little foibles of culture but they have no real significance in how the child lives in this country.
My point about Empire's Children was that there had been cultural changes since the ancestors had left the country of origin which were not being implemented in this country as the parents were no longer part of their original culture.
Their culture in this country is now stagnant rather than than a changing entity as it is in the country of origin.
And there is nothing funny about exploring ancestry. There have been upteen programmes about white people exploring their background.
Cybergirl is saying that if you are black then you MUST carry with you the cultural heritage of your ancestors. And she gives examples of parents teaching cultural things to their children and saying that this is your culture. I don't agree with that.
The children's culture is the culture of where they live. Yes it is nice to know these little foibles of culture but they have no real significance in how the child lives in this country.
My point about Empire's Children was that there had been cultural changes since the ancestors had left the country of origin which were not being implemented in this country as the parents were no longer part of their original culture.
Their culture in this country is now stagnant rather than than a changing entity as it is in the country of origin.
And there is nothing funny about exploring ancestry. There have been upteen programmes about white people exploring their background.
And for the record I don't have an agenda.
I said they should be taught, I never said they must carry it around AGAIN . . .my quote:Parents teach their kids these things, whether or not the child chooses to acknowledge them is up to the individual
Also, Why do you have a problem with people acknowledging their culture? Are you one of those people that thinks once people move here they have to give up their culture in order to be assimilated?
While I agree with most of the stuff that has been said on this thread. I have to say I do not believe white parents can raise a black child (properly). My friend was adopted by white parents when she was younger, they are "mom" and "dad" to her despite her father being alive. She loves them to death, but they thought her very little about her culture. Most of what she learnt about herself, she learnt on the internet and from her black relatives when she got older.
Take Zahara Jolie-Pitt for instance, that kid usually looks like a hot mess when she is out. Despite having all the money in the world, they still can't figure out what to do with the girl's hair. That's an example of the basic things a white family can't help a black child with.
I agree that heritage is important, but it REALLY depends on the kind of white parent a black child is adopted by.
IMO, film stars aren't the best examples of parenthood whether they adopt of have one naturally. They are too in love with themselves and have kids for probably the same sort of "look-at-me" reasons.
If I adopted a black child/vietnamese/other, I would make sure that they learned about their heritage and I would take pains to learn how to treat them one eg. being dressing their hair.:)
I agree that heritage is important, but it REALLY depends on the kind of white parent a black child is adopted by.
IMO, film stars aren't the best examples of parenthood whether they adopt of have one naturally. They are too in love with themselves and have kids for probably the same sort of "look-at-me" reasons.
If I adopted a black child/vietnamese/other, I would make sure that they learned about their heritage and I would take pains to learn how to treat them one eg. being dressing their hair.:)
I would far rather any of these kids had been given to a different racial couple, than endure such wickedness at the hands of 'one of their own'.:(
I agree with you, the kind of parent comes into it. I don't vehemently disagree with adopting kids of a different race as long as the parents are aware of what they are getting into.
I said they should be taught, I never said they must carry it around AGAIN . . .my quote:Parents teach their kids these things, whether or not the child chooses to acknowledge them is up to the individual
Also, Why do you have a problem with people acknowledging their culture? Are you one of those people that thinks once people move here they have to give up their culture in order to be assimilated?
I acknowledge my ancestry came from Ireland but it doesn't affect who I am or how i live my life. Why should a black person have to act in a certain way or follow certain customs simply ecause their ancestry came from another country?
If we are going to talk about assiilation then surely the answer to that is obvious. If the cultural habit, whatever it is, prevents the person from being a fully functioning member of this culture then, yes, it should be given up.
Some cultures sew up women's private parts, which this culture finds unacceptable. Should we as a society allow it to happen here because it is a part of another culture?
Or should we say that it is barbaric and unacceptable and if you want to live here, then you aren't allowed to do that? So to that extent then yes they should give up their culture.
If their culture simply means kneeling to adults and flouncing round in fancy frocks then let them get on with it. If it floats your boat then fine.
I acknowledge my ancestry came from Ireland but it doesn't affect who I am or how i live my life. Why should a black person have to act in a certain way or follow certain customs simply ecause their ancestry came from another country?
If we are going to talk about assiilation then surely the answer to that is obvious. If the cultural habit, whatever it is, prevents the person from being a fully functioning member of this culture then, yes, it should be given up.
Some cultures sew up women's private parts, which this culture finds unacceptable. Should we as a society allow it to happen here because it is a part of another culture?
Or should we say that it is barbaric and unacceptable and if you want to live here, then you aren't allowed to do that? So to that extent then yes they should give up their culture.
If their culture simply means kneeling to adults and flouncing round in fancy frocks then let them get on with it. If it floats your boat then fine.
You seem to assume that understanding (african) culture would interfere with everday life in some way. Take Kele Okereke for instance, Nigerian born in UK. In one of his songs he references eating/breaking Kolanuts, a nigerian ceremonial custom . . . has that made him less british?
I won't support a custom. . . .alien or human that mutilates people.
Culture is about more than museums. Food, dress, music etc are all part of the present day and affect people from day to day - ask any ex-pat.
People should be allowed to investigate their roots but it's a personal decision, not something that can be dictated by other people of whatever race. The OP's friend was acting irrationally.
Agreed. Some people, of whatever background, may not be interested in celebrating their heritage. Just in their own lives.
I think what I was trying to say is that in my case, I don't identify with African culture because it is not my culture. I have no close relatives that are from Africa. Someone was arguing that I must be self-hating because I choose not be called African-American, so I must be denying what I am, and that is bullshit. Of course I know that I have African ancestry-- my skin is brown. However, I don't see the point of celebrating something that I have no idea of.
African culture is not homogonized; Ghananians, Nigerians and South African people have very different cultural traditions to each other. I have no idea and will never know where my African ancestors came from, other than they had to come from the West Coast of Africa. (I was wishing I had Zulu somewhere!).
I love my Black American culture. My people have influenced America and the world with their traditions. I love eating Collard greens, cornbread, candied yams, and 7UP cake. I love jazz music and the blues. I adore my figure!
I don't like cultural superiority in any case, and to suggest that some black people are "lost" because we don't pay homage to a culture that we don't identify with is wrong.
I learned black history in school, along with a lot of other black people. In the case of interracial adoptions, I think the parents need to ensure that the kids are taught the history, but the culture itself is secondary. I have seen some black kids with white parents, and the kid's hair was a mess. I have seen black kids with white parents and the kid's hair was beautiful. Those things are easily fixed. I'd feel sorry for any daughter of mine, seeing as I can't do hair to save my life!
I would not object to interracial adoption either if it the parents were up to the job. However, moving aside the issue of culture a bit some children who have been interracially adopted some may end up facing some kind of identity issues.
I don't know why people are so obsessed with pigeon holing everyone? I am hardly ever allowed to describe myself as English as a description of nationality.
All I can say to the woman who started the forum is don't allow idiots' comments to wind her up.
Hi Lips. I am from Illinois. Oh, and I've never met a Texan I didn't like.
Hey AutumnGal, I was teased about my choice in cigarettes by some black people! Just because I smoke non-menthols!
Cool! My dad was from Illinois, Freeport. But fell in love with my Texan mother and followed her home. I've a fair number of family up in Illinois still.
I think what I was trying to say is that in my case, I don't identify with African culture because it is not my culture. I have no close relatives that are from Africa. Someone was arguing that I must be self-hating because I choose not be called African-American, so I must be denying what I am, and that is bullshit. Of course I know that I have African ancestry-- my skin is brown. However, I don't see the point of celebrating something that I have no idea of.
African culture is not homogonized; Ghananians, Nigerians and South African people have very different cultural traditions to each other. I have no idea and will never know where my African ancestors came from, other than they had to come from the West Coast of Africa. (I was wishing I had Zulu somewhere!).
I love my Black American culture. My people have influenced America and the world with their traditions. I love eating Collard greens, cornbread, candied yams, and 7UP cake. I love jazz music and the blues. I adore my figure!
I don't like cultural superiority in any case, and to suggest that some black people are "lost" because we don't pay homage to a culture that we don't identify with is wrong.
I learned black history in school, along with a lot of other black people. In the case of interracial adoptions, I think the parents need to ensure that the kids are taught the history, but the culture itself is secondary. I have seen some black kids with white parents, and the kid's hair was a mess. I have seen black kids with white parents and the kid's hair was beautiful. Those things are easily fixed. I'd feel sorry for any daughter of mine, seeing as I can't do hair to save my life!
So do I and I'm not black! Nothing like blackeyed peas/cornbread/and collard greens for New Year's Day dinner. Rock on sister!
There is no such thing as a black person! Equally I have never seen a white person either, not even the palest albino.
It is simply cliched and wrong to describe someone as being a colour they are not. Even the very darkest person I have ever seen was simply very dark brown.
Comments
Completely.
Well I want to know about things like the Battle of Waterloo, but I don't see any point in celebrating it. Same with any historic event. Useful to know, pointless to keep making an issue of.
Nothing wrong with museums for those who are interested in visiting them. Funny thing is, they don't affect people's lives.
You are the sum total of a whole lot of cultures, and it sounds fascinating, all the things you found out. Until recently I had no evidence of any non- British forbears so I have always thought of myself as utterly English (mainly) but going further back I have forbears from every country in Europe and Asia Minor, which I am quite excited about actually.
Each one of those strands goes to make up the whole picture... same for you. I often feel quite sad that a lot of people concentrate solely on that side which gives them certain physical characteristics, (such as darker skin) as they miss out a whole lot of interesting stuff on the other strands that make them up.
Whatever ones colouring, there will always be uncomfortable information to cope with somewhere along the line.. rape and incest etc in all walks of life, but a mixture of racial genes can also mean courageous young people in love who followed their hearts rather than convention.
I wish everyone would be interested in all their ancestors and their stories, even when they weren't nice people as it gives us a much more in depth view of the past and through understanding that, possibly some insight into the future
People should be allowed to investigate their roots but it's a personal decision, not something that can be dictated by other people of whatever race. The OP's friend was acting irrationally.
The above is the context to my reply.
Cybergirl is saying that if you are black then you MUST carry with you the cultural heritage of your ancestors. And she gives examples of parents teaching cultural things to their children and saying that this is your culture. I don't agree with that.
The children's culture is the culture of where they live. Yes it is nice to know these little foibles of culture but they have no real significance in how the child lives in this country.
My point about Empire's Children was that there had been cultural changes since the ancestors had left the country of origin which were not being implemented in this country as the parents were no longer part of their original culture.
Their culture in this country is now stagnant rather than than a changing entity as it is in the country of origin.
And there is nothing funny about exploring ancestry. There have been upteen programmes about white people exploring their background.
And for the record I don't have an agenda.
I said they should be taught, I never said they must carry it around AGAIN . . .my quote:Parents teach their kids these things, whether or not the child chooses to acknowledge them is up to the individual
Also, Why do you have a problem with people acknowledging their culture? Are you one of those people that thinks once people move here they have to give up their culture in order to be assimilated?
I agree that heritage is important, but it REALLY depends on the kind of white parent a black child is adopted by.
IMO, film stars aren't the best examples of parenthood whether they adopt of have one naturally. They are too in love with themselves and have kids for probably the same sort of "look-at-me" reasons.
If I adopted a black child/vietnamese/other, I would make sure that they learned about their heritage and I would take pains to learn how to treat them one eg. being dressing their hair.:)
read this and weep
I would far rather any of these kids had been given to a different racial couple, than endure such wickedness at the hands of 'one of their own'.:(
I agree with you, the kind of parent comes into it. I don't vehemently disagree with adopting kids of a different race as long as the parents are aware of what they are getting into.
I acknowledge my ancestry came from Ireland but it doesn't affect who I am or how i live my life. Why should a black person have to act in a certain way or follow certain customs simply ecause their ancestry came from another country?
If we are going to talk about assiilation then surely the answer to that is obvious. If the cultural habit, whatever it is, prevents the person from being a fully functioning member of this culture then, yes, it should be given up.
Some cultures sew up women's private parts, which this culture finds unacceptable. Should we as a society allow it to happen here because it is a part of another culture?
Or should we say that it is barbaric and unacceptable and if you want to live here, then you aren't allowed to do that? So to that extent then yes they should give up their culture.
If their culture simply means kneeling to adults and flouncing round in fancy frocks then let them get on with it. If it floats your boat then fine.
You seem to assume that understanding (african) culture would interfere with everday life in some way. Take Kele Okereke for instance, Nigerian born in UK. In one of his songs he references eating/breaking Kolanuts, a nigerian ceremonial custom . . . has that made him less british?
I won't support a custom. . . .alien or human that mutilates people.
Agreed. Some people, of whatever background, may not be interested in celebrating their heritage. Just in their own lives.
African culture is not homogonized; Ghananians, Nigerians and South African people have very different cultural traditions to each other. I have no idea and will never know where my African ancestors came from, other than they had to come from the West Coast of Africa. (I was wishing I had Zulu somewhere!).
I love my Black American culture. My people have influenced America and the world with their traditions. I love eating Collard greens, cornbread, candied yams, and 7UP cake. I love jazz music and the blues. I adore my figure!
I don't like cultural superiority in any case, and to suggest that some black people are "lost" because we don't pay homage to a culture that we don't identify with is wrong.
I learned black history in school, along with a lot of other black people. In the case of interracial adoptions, I think the parents need to ensure that the kids are taught the history, but the culture itself is secondary. I have seen some black kids with white parents, and the kid's hair was a mess. I have seen black kids with white parents and the kid's hair was beautiful. Those things are easily fixed. I'd feel sorry for any daughter of mine, seeing as I can't do hair to save my life!
All I can say to the woman who started the forum is don't allow idiots' comments to wind her up.
Cool! My dad was from Illinois, Freeport. But fell in love with my Texan mother and followed her home. I've a fair number of family up in Illinois still.
So do I and I'm not black! Nothing like blackeyed peas/cornbread/and collard greens for New Year's Day dinner.
It is simply cliched and wrong to describe someone as being a colour they are not. Even the very darkest person I have ever seen was simply very dark brown.
At what stage did we decide that brown was black?