Well, it's not reporting that the age of consent will be lowered to 13, they are reporting on what some woman, who has no control over the laws wants to happen. A random lawyer or something. Bit of a none story if you ask me, and I wouldn't be surprised if the mail has twisted everything she said to try and make a story out of it
That table of Europe demonstrates my point really; I'm not convinced what is gained by changing, but at the same time I also think that - on any issue - if you're out of step with just about everyone else then it's not a bad thing to at least stop and consider whether or not there's another way. But as long as the subject is met with DM style moral outrage whenever it comes up then discussion becomes impossible.
Well I'm not necessarily saying it should be changed here. Just correcting the notion you seem to have that the only countries with lower ages of consent than us are that way due to deeply ingrained misogyny. In fact it's often down to pragmatism winning out over dogma.
Having misognistic ideas about women or children is not incompatible with what most people would think of as left leaning ideas, there are many abusers who have been liberal, left, libertarian or anarchistic leaning in their politics.
I must admit that list seems to have been selectively compiled; since a lot of the countries where the age is 16 (Norway. Netherlands, Luxembourg) appear to have been omitted.
Of course it could be that the purpose of the original list was just to show that there are a lot of places in Europe where they take a very different view, rather than to mislead. Still I don't think it necessarily shows the full picture.
That's an interesting table...and Spain is a big surprise at 13.
I wonder if the age at which you can be married is correspondingly lower?
They don't appear to give a crap about much in Spain in regards to consent. It's perfectly normal for shop owners to serve kids for cigs/booze, whatever their age.
Even if the age of consent was lowered, I think people would SERIOUSLY think more than twice before asking the consent of a 13 year old. It doesn't make it alright!!
Having misognistic ideas about women or children is not incompatible with what most people would think of as left leaning ideas, there are many abusers who have been liberal, left, libertarian or anarchistic leaning in their politics.
When did I say anything about left leaning ideas? I've always thought that political correctness is a menace, so the idea that I think the laws adopted in a "left-leaning" (whatever that means) country should somehow be considered more valid as a result is frankly nonsense.
Anyway going back to my original example, if you look at the current government of Sweden it's usually described as a "centre right coalition" fwiw.
Of course it could be that the purpose of the original list was just to show that there are a lot of places in Europe where they take a very different view, rather than to mislead. Still I don't think it necessarily shows the full picture.
I omitted the other countries that have 16 (and the couple that have higher) because we are talking about lowering the age of consent with respect to the current UK levels.
It is however an interesting table. How many UK residents would have said that the age of consent in Spain, Germany, Italy, Denmark, Iceland and France is lower than that in the UK, and in some cases by 3 years?
It will not be long before a UK resident goes to the European court, when they have been found "guilty" of having underage sex with their 15 yr old partner, and makes a complaint, citing human rights.
I personally find it ludicrous that ages of consent are not consistent across Europe.
I also find it equally odd that in the UK a 16 yr old can be classed as a sex offender if they have sex with their 15 yrs 364 day old partner, but a day later a 50 yr old can have sex with the same person (on their 16th birthday) and its suddenly perfectly legal!
I would much prefer a lower boundary, with the proviso that any partners they have should be within a certain age too. I see it very differently if two 14 yr olds are having sex, when compared to a 14 yr old and a 30 yr old!
I omitted the other countries that have 16 (and the couple that have higher) because we are talking about lowering the age of consent with respect to the current UK levels.
It is however an interesting table. How many UK residents would have said that the age of consent in Spain, Germany, Italy, Denmark, Iceland and France is lower than that in the UK, and in some cases by 3 years?
It will not be long before a UK resident goes to the European court, when they have been found "guilty" of having underage sex with their 15 yr old partner, and makes a complaint, citing human rights.
I personally find it ludicrous that ages of consent are not consistent across Europe.
I also find it equally odd that in the UK a 16 yr old can be classed as a sex offender if they have sex with their 15 yrs 364 day old partner, but a day later a 50 yr old can have sex with the same person (on their 16th birthday) and its suddenly perfectly legal!
I would much prefer a lower boundary, with the proviso that any partners they have should be within a certain age too. I see it very differently if two 14 yr olds are having sex, when compared to a 14 yr old and a 30 yr old!
My first time, I was 15 and she was 15, but a solicitor found out because her mum reported it and threatened me with unlawful, underage sex, even though she consented to it. I had to break up with her and never see her again I thought that was very unfair.
My first time, I was 15 and she was 15, but a solicitor found out because her mum reported it and threatened me with unlawful, underage sex, even though she consented to it. I had to break up with her and never see her again I thought that was very unfair.
My first time, I was 15 and she was 15, but a solicitor found out because her mum reported it and threatened me with unlawful, underage sex, even though she consented to it. I had to break up with her and never see her again I thought that was very unfair.
Technically, as you were both under age, neither of you could give your consent.
The female would be every bit as "guilty" as you are, legally, but the blatant sexism that is somehow allowed in our society, skewed it against you.
I think there's a debate to be had about lowering the age of consent to 15 but definately not any lower, despite other countries having a lower age of consent. Apparently in these countries, the average age that people actually lose their virginity is 18, at least that was the case several years ago and it's fairly clear 13 year olds are not really aware of the emotional consequences of having sex and are certainly not ready to be parents.
I think there's a debate to be had about lowering the age of consent to 15 but definately not any lower, despite other countries having a lower age of consent. Apparently in these countries, the average age that people actually lose their virginity is 18, at least that was the case several years ago and it's fairly clear 13 year olds are not really aware of the emotional consequences of having sex and are certainly not ready to be parents.
It's not as simple as "if they're under 16, it's rape" as some believe.
And nor should it be. It would seem ridiculous (to me at least) that sex between two people could be illegal at the start (taking clothes off at 23:59) then be legal at the completion (00:01 for teenagers, probably ).
People don't suddenly become capable of making sexual decisions at midnight of their 16th birthday. In fact some aren't really capable of it until their 20s. The number of teenage mothers around suggests that to me. And, as has been pointed out, plenty of girls in their early teens can look older if they want.
The 'he's a paedo' crowd don't help the debate. Nor do over protective fathers and brothers. I've often been a bit puzzled by that. Do those fathers and brothers feel so protective because of what they themselves did in the past? Is it a manifestation of guilt?
It's complicated and emotional and I don't envy anyone in the legal profession who has to sort the mess out.
The age of consent has only been 16 in this country since 1885. It was set as 12 in the thirteenth century before being raised - first to 13 in 1875 and then to 16. The spur for this was concern about the number of children ending up in sexual slavery.
Thats a scary thought to me. I thought I was an adult as a teenager and I used to be curious about sex and talked about things with some people who encouraged me (though never thankfully ended up doing anything) that was when I was 16/17 but it got creepy, I felt I was being manipulated and soon after felt awful about it and have felt really bad about it ever since. As a teen, hormones go wild and I thought I was mature and somehow was old enough to ask/talk about sex and things but I barely feel like an adult now and am quite prudish and don't date, wouldn't know how to explain things. It was my fault (even though others have insisted otherwise but I pretty much insist it was my fault).
I guess I seem to be in the minority, since you hear in the media sometimes about young teens being sexually active, most people seem different to me but I've been left in a not good way because of the stupid conversations and things I did and I feel alot of it came down to peer pressure and feeling like your a teen, your supposed to find people who are interested in you and firt with you and things.
I think its different to be with someone your own age if its in person and your mature and you know what you want, if your sure your not pressurised(!) and so on. I think the problem is, some people are more mature than others at different ages. People are different, we're all individual but I can't imagine most 13 year olds fully understanding the potential implications, risks of pregnancy etc. I think people who may want to manipulate younger people would see the age of consent lowered as a way of saying its ok to manipulate even younger people? although that could be wrong, they might do it anyway but it could be the case(?).
Also, sex ed would have to change so kids have been taught about contraception, prgenancy etc. by 13 if it were to be lowered, surely?. I hope i'm not hated for what I say, its just, like, my story or whatever.
I'd be interested in what people would say to making the age of consent based on the age of the older person. For example if you were between 14 and 16 the age of consent would be 14, if you were between 16 and 18 it would be 15 and if you were above 18 it would be 16. It would complicate the law, yes.
Comments
Her Chambers has issued a statement
http://www.hardwicke.co.uk/unrelated/statement-from-hardwicke
Original article - make your own mind up
http://www.spiked-online.com/site/article/13604/
That's an interesting table...and Spain is a big surprise at 13.
I wonder if the age at which you can be married is correspondingly lower?
Yes, but without the Daily Mail, I wouldn't know she'd even said anything.
The Wikipedia list is more comprehensive:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe
Of course it could be that the purpose of the original list was just to show that there are a lot of places in Europe where they take a very different view, rather than to mislead. Still I don't think it necessarily shows the full picture.
They don't appear to give a crap about much in Spain in regards to consent. It's perfectly normal for shop owners to serve kids for cigs/booze, whatever their age.
It's been reported in other papers
Too low in my opinion. Not that many people take much notice.
Some of those countries are not in the EU. Yet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union
More info.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Turkey_to_the_European_Union
Anyway going back to my original example, if you look at the current government of Sweden it's usually described as a "centre right coalition" fwiw.
Not on here it's not.
I omitted the other countries that have 16 (and the couple that have higher) because we are talking about lowering the age of consent with respect to the current UK levels.
It is however an interesting table. How many UK residents would have said that the age of consent in Spain, Germany, Italy, Denmark, Iceland and France is lower than that in the UK, and in some cases by 3 years?
It will not be long before a UK resident goes to the European court, when they have been found "guilty" of having underage sex with their 15 yr old partner, and makes a complaint, citing human rights.
I personally find it ludicrous that ages of consent are not consistent across Europe.
I also find it equally odd that in the UK a 16 yr old can be classed as a sex offender if they have sex with their 15 yrs 364 day old partner, but a day later a 50 yr old can have sex with the same person (on their 16th birthday) and its suddenly perfectly legal!
I would much prefer a lower boundary, with the proviso that any partners they have should be within a certain age too. I see it very differently if two 14 yr olds are having sex, when compared to a 14 yr old and a 30 yr old!
My first time, I was 15 and she was 15, but a solicitor found out because her mum reported it and threatened me with unlawful, underage sex, even though she consented to it. I had to break up with her and never see her again
Consent isn't the same as the law legally.
Technically, as you were both under age, neither of you could give your consent.
The female would be every bit as "guilty" as you are, legally, but the blatant sexism that is somehow allowed in our society, skewed it against you.
Either way it was ridiculous.
And yet in Spain, they are!
Just because the first link provided was a DM one doesn't mean to say it hasn't been in other publications including the orignial article
http://news.sky.com/story/1088447/savile-case-led-to-persecution-lawyer-says
http://metro.co.uk/2013/05/09/age-of-consent-should-be-lowered-to-13-in-light-of-stuart-hall-prosecution-top-barrister-says-3747054/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/jimmy-savile/10045699/Allow-legal-sex-at-13-to-stop-old-men-abuse-persecutions-says-barrister.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22459815
People don't suddenly become capable of making sexual decisions at midnight of their 16th birthday. In fact some aren't really capable of it until their 20s. The number of teenage mothers around suggests that to me. And, as has been pointed out, plenty of girls in their early teens can look older if they want.
The 'he's a paedo' crowd don't help the debate. Nor do over protective fathers and brothers. I've often been a bit puzzled by that. Do those fathers and brothers feel so protective because of what they themselves did in the past? Is it a manifestation of guilt?
It's complicated and emotional and I don't envy anyone in the legal profession who has to sort the mess out.
Loving your work.
I guess I seem to be in the minority, since you hear in the media sometimes about young teens being sexually active, most people seem different to me but I've been left in a not good way because of the stupid conversations and things I did and I feel alot of it came down to peer pressure and feeling like your a teen, your supposed to find people who are interested in you and firt with you and things.
I think its different to be with someone your own age if its in person and your mature and you know what you want, if your sure your not pressurised(!) and so on. I think the problem is, some people are more mature than others at different ages. People are different, we're all individual but I can't imagine most 13 year olds fully understanding the potential implications, risks of pregnancy etc. I think people who may want to manipulate younger people would see the age of consent lowered as a way of saying its ok to manipulate even younger people? although that could be wrong, they might do it anyway but it could be the case(?).
Also, sex ed would have to change so kids have been taught about contraception, prgenancy etc. by 13 if it were to be lowered, surely?. I hope i'm not hated for what I say, its just, like, my story or whatever.