I've just about given up trying to understand anything!
Every time we get a new piece of information, it doesn't make the picture any clearer. In fact, it seems to do just the opposite.
I think a lot of people have. Hence the reason it's become every CT'ers dream!
For me the oddest of all is not one shred of floating evidence has yet been found.....zero, zilch, nothing. That's pretty hard to imagine when you consider the amount of objects on board any aircraft which would normally float to the surface......seat cushions, loose baggage, plastics, etc.
Yes we all know it's a huge vast ocean (world third largest), but since Marine Traffic opened the site up to everything, we've been able to see how many cargo ships are using it.
That's what I mean, there is always someone who doesn't do as they are told. So even if there was a hypoxia situation and everyone was unconscious, surely their phones would have connected to the cell tower as well as the co-pilots phone. None of this makes sense at all.
To the best of my knowledge, nobody's said there's weren't any other phone links. The emphasis of the recent investigation has been on the flight crew (as it seems obvious that someone was at the controls, and they were the last ones known to be in the cockpit) so this information is relevant to that line of enquiry.
My understanding is that this story was "leaked", so it's possible that the source only had information about the co-pilot's phone.
There's also been a suggestion that the US knew about this information quite some time ago; the implication being that the US is helping with that aspect of the investigation, just as they did with the pilot's computer.
There's also been a suggestion that the US knew about this information quite some time ago; the implication being that the US is helping with that aspect of the investigation, just as they did with the pilot's computer.
Hishammuddin has name dropped MI 5 or 6 (can't remember which) a couple of times saying that they are helping out with the investigation, and then usually follows that with one of his cryptic 'all will be revealed one day/never' quotes.
There is just so much more to this story, most of which the public is not privvy to it seems. And as Bullet has mentioned, the lack of debris, not so much as a seat cushion has been found. It's not just Angus that is obsessed with finding debris, I think we are all desperate for them to find something now, even if it's only a Malaysian safety card or a sick bag!
Just had a quick look on the nst site and they are running an article saying the USA are denying a cover up. I think this is the first time I have seen the Americans officially mention (deny) DG in connection to MH370. Thats just going to set the CT'ers off again - you know how they love a wild allegation.
RIDICULOUS: It's just baseless conspiracy theories, says US embassy official
WASHINGTON has strongly refuted all allegations of a cover-up in the mystery surrounding the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.
As discussions, including on social media, on United States purported role behind the Boeing jetliner going missing continue to swirl, Washington, through its embassy here, said that they were all "baseless conspiracy theories".
The US Embassy here, in an email to the New Straits Times, said claims that MH370 was hidden somewhere in its island military base, Diego Garcia, were also wild allegations.
And as Bullet has mentioned, the lack of debris, not so much as a seat cushion has been found. It's not just Angus that is obsessed with finding debris, I think we are all desperate for them to find something now, even if it's only a Malaysian safety card or a sick bag!
Agreed. At the moment, the idea that it has crashed into the sea, somewhere in that vague area is still only 'the best theory at the moment'. It would be nice to at least move it up a notch from that....
With regard to the debris, a tropical cyclone hit the area after MH370 went down, with sustained windspeeds of 125mph, and gusts up to 180mph. Add in the power of the waves, and I wouldn't give floating debris much of a chance! What wasn't shredded or pounded to bits would probably be waterlogged, and anything light enough to be picked up by the wind (like a seat cushion) could be carried hundreds of miles.
Just had a quick look on the nst site and they are running an article saying the USA are denying a cover up. I think this is the first time I have seen the Americans officially mention (deny) DG in connection to MH370. Thats just going to set the CT'ers off again - you know how they love a wild allegation.
RIDICULOUS: It's just baseless conspiracy theories, says US embassy official
WASHINGTON has strongly refuted all allegations of a cover-up in the mystery surrounding the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.
As discussions, including on social media, on United States purported role behind the Boeing jetliner going missing continue to swirl, Washington, through its embassy here, said that they were all "baseless conspiracy theories".
The US Embassy here, in an email to the New Straits Times, said claims that MH370 was hidden somewhere in its island military base, Diego Garcia, were also wild allegations.
One hole in the Diego Garcia theory, off the top of my head....
Whilst this whole thing has actually burst many people's belief that the whole surface of the earth is monitored by real-time spy satellites at all times, the Chinese, Russians, etc. probably do keep an eye on the Diego Garcia airfield.
If the cyclone went left to right towards Oz, wouldn't something have either been washed up on the Oz coast or drifted into shipping lanes around Oz? Bearing in mind this has been international news for over 5 weeks, I would have thought that all shipping in that part of the world would have been on the lookout for anything drifting.
If the cyclone went left to right towards Oz, wouldn't something have either been washed up on the Oz coast or drifted into shipping lanes around Oz? Bearing in mind this has been international news for over 5 weeks, I would have thought that all shipping in that part of the world would have been on the lookout for anything drifting.
It went right to left * ... starting in the Gulf of Carpentaria at the top of Oz, then heading west, down pretty much smack over the latest search area, then off out into the middle of the Indian Ocean which isn't (as far as I know) crossed by many main shipping lanes.
* I added that bit in as an edit to my original post, so you probably didn't see it at the time.
It went right to left * ... starting in the Gulf of Carpentaria at the top of Oz, then heading west, down pretty much smack over the latest search area, then off out into the middle of the Indian Ocean which isn't (as far as I know) crossed by many main shipping lanes.
That's a good observation, and the other thing is that it was at least a week after that before they started searching that far north (where the cyclone had passed through) which gave plenty of time for more and more of any debris to be scattered far and wide or sink. No wonder they are having trouble finding any!
The debris search seems to be moving south again now, as they try to fill any gaps I guess, rather than from any significant new information.
That's a good observation, and the other thing is that it was at least a week after that before they started searching that far north (where the cyclone had passed through) which gave plenty of time for more and more debris to be scattered far and wide or sink. No wonder they are having trouble finding any!
Though, of course, the 'scattered far and wide' theory also increases the likelihood of someone, somewhere, spotting something.....
Though, of course, the 'scattered far and wide' theory also increases the likelihood of someone, somewhere, spotting something.....
Perhaps... eventually, but that could be years away! Also, after more of it has became waterlogged, broken, punctured, submerged etc., what remains may have become just a small proportion by now of the general detritis out there. Speculation I know, but as they haven't found anything yet...
It changes from finding a needle in a haystack to finding one of a dozen pinheads in a field of flattened haystacks sprayed liberally with annoying useless grains of sand!
There's so many people to multi quote here that my post would be way too long.
I also agree that it's odd that there's been not a single shred of debris found. I understand completely about it possibly having travelled for hundreds of miles now, but to have nothing, not one tiny piece found & confirmed as having come from MH370 is just adding fuel to the CT fires right now.
Add in the potential phonecall from the copilot which I'm inclined to believe, as in at the very least his phone connected to a mast over Penang & like Soo says, there's always at least one person who doesn't turn their phone off or turn it to airplane mode so it's strange there haven't been more claims of phones having connected...maybe there have but there's more mileage in the news that the co pilot tried or did make a call than there is in Mr/Ms Jiangs phone did (name plucked at random).
I don't believe the plane is in Diego Garcia for a minute but I'm damned if I believe they didn't track that plane, even by accident without knowing what it was at the time, on their radar. This base is hush hush & high tech as far as I know & I'd be willing to bet that their technical capabilities there go way beyond what is universally known.
I can't see them having known what the plane was at the time as I doubt the Malaysians called up the US military at Diego Garcia & told them they'd got an AWOL plane & had they seen it, not until afterwards anyway.
I'm even starting to wonder if the Maldives sightings were genuine.
I agree with BG, there are other underwater rovers capable of going much deeper than Bluefin & I question why they aren't being utilised on this search. They had plenty of time to ask a country who owns one for the use of it & they've known since day one that they decided MH370 landed in the Indian Ocean that they were potentially looking at incredible depths undersea.
I agree with Angus in that I want to see some wreckage, a bit of floating debris, something, anything! that confirms that area is MH370's final resting place. Not because I believe it's in Khandahar or Somalia or Diego Garcia or anywhere else the ridiculous CT's say it is, but because without something, anything, and without finding the black boxes or underwater wreckage (which I'm crossing everything & hoping against hope for) we cannot even at this stage say MH370 is even there...& until we can these ridiculous CT's are not going to go away.
With regard to the debris, a tropical cyclone hit the area after MH370 went down, with sustained windspeeds of 125mph, and gusts up to 180mph. Add in the power of the waves, and I wouldn't give floating debris much of a chance! What wasn't shredded or pounded to bits would probably be waterlogged, and anything light enough to be picked up by the wind (like a seat cushion) could be carried hundreds of miles.
You...you should have known better than to post that!!!
Don't you know the government controls the weather...in fact I'd say they sent that cyclone right over that area, right at that time so that when they find nothing they can say, 'oh it was all scattered to the four corners of the earth by a completely random & not at all government generated (honest guv) cyclone. ;-)
We can expect that to be on the DI forum imminently
How would anyone fake the Inmarsat signals though?
That's the rub isn't it.
The only place that plane could be if the extrapolation of data narrowing it down to that area of the arc was correct, is in the area they're currently searching.
This whole thing is just a mass of contradictions piled on top of a heap of uncertainty
I too, am wondering about the Maldives sightings. There was an awful lot of people who said they saw it fly over, it does seem too many people to be involved in a cruel hoax. What was the outcome of round fire extinguisher thing that washed up - was that fake?
I also agree about DG, I am sure they did track the plane that night but to admit that would be to admit their true purpose and capabilities.
Still too many unanswered questions - how much fuel was the plane carrying? What was in the cargo hold, was it 4 tonnes of mangosteens even though we know they are not harvested until next month?
How do you fake IMMARSAT info? Probably not intentionally faked, it might be that just one calculation is slightly out, or a dec point is in the wrong place, i.e. some minor error which may have resulted in a search area miles from where they are.
Someones going to make a lot of money writing a book about this whole mystery.
With regard to the debris, a tropical cyclone hit the area after MH370 went down, with sustained windspeeds of 125mph, and gusts up to 180mph. Add in the power of the waves, and I wouldn't give floating debris much of a chance! What wasn't shredded or pounded to bits would probably be waterlogged, and anything light enough to be picked up by the wind (like a seat cushion) could be carried hundreds of miles.
Must admit CC, though i have a fascination with weather (have a home weather station), i don't know enough about extreme weathers....cyclones, tornadoes, hurricanes etc to say conclusively that absolutely nothing would be left of anything it hit. I imagine there would be something no matter how small.
A good example is to look at the devastation left after the Tsunami of 2004, ironically in the Indian Ocean, and the mass of rubble left after that which went on for hundreds if not thousands of miles.
I too, am wondering about the Maldives sightings. There was an awful lot of people who said they saw it fly over, it does seem too many people to be involved in a cruel hoax. What was the outcome of round fire extinguisher thing that washed up - was that fake?
I also agree about DG, I am sure they did track the plane that night but to admit that would be to admit their true purpose and capabilities.
Still too many unanswered questions - how much fuel was the plane carrying? What was in the cargo hold, was it 4 tonnes of mangosteens even though we know they are not harvested until next month?
How do you fake IMMARSAT info? Probably not intentionally faked, it might be that just one calculation is slightly out, or a dec point is in the wrong place, i.e. some minor error which may have resulted in a search area miles from where they are.
Someones going to make a lot of money writing a book about this whole mystery.
With regards to the possible fire extinguisher I think Lightdragon is better off answering that...that's been her baby since the object was found & she will know the latest news on that.
The main question I have about the Maldives 'sightings' is why leave it so long to mention it? They said themselves they don't have planes that big flying over them at that altitude & that's how they knew it was strange...if that was the case then why wasn't it reported earlier? I know the Maldives are tropical islands in the middle of nowhere but they're also a very popular holiday destination & have newspapers, internet etc & they must have known pretty much as soon as any of us did that MH370 was missing. It can't have been that they just didn't think there could possibly be a connection until one of them said 'oh hey, you think that bigass plane that flew right over us over a week ago could have been that missing 777?'
I don't believe the Inmarsat data can possibly be incorrect, these guys are experts in their field. If it had come out quicker than it did then maybe you could say possibly a sloppy job cos they were rushed, but these guys took their time & pieced it all together slowly & logically. I guess it's just as Cough says & the cyclone & ocean swells have carried it far & wide & sunk it back down etc.
I'm not one of these people that want instant results & answers (heck, I watched Lost for 6 seasons & never really did get answers ) but just something would be nice. Although I guess we've had the pings so that is something & I am just wanting the icing on the cake with the confirmed debris as well
Oh a couple of pages back. Someone had a single post having a go.
It just annoyed me. Lot of Racism about the handling of the affair.
I worked for a Japanese company for 15 years, and been to Tokyo many times (of course KL is not Japan). But I've visited Taiwan and Hong Kong too.
I love and hate the Far East, iit really is a culture difference. More love than hate xx
Ah ok.
I think there's understandable frustration about how it's been handled by all concerned & the sentiment is a bit that the Chinese, unintentionally & obviously under a lot of pressure since most of the souls on board were their citizens, have possibly impeded the search as it took Echo away for a week or so from the area other pings were heard in as of course the Chinese pings rightly had to be checked out fully.
I understand why they did what they did & used the equipment they had available & announced they'd heard pings. I just wish they'd trusted more & got independent verification before announcing it in the way they did. If that makes sense.
Nobody would be having a deliberate pop at Takae I hope, since I agree they're a very decent DS poster. They've certainly taught me a few things during this post & I'm grateful for that
Comments
I have to agree with you there Cough
For me the oddest of all is not one shred of floating evidence has yet been found.....zero, zilch, nothing. That's pretty hard to imagine when you consider the amount of objects on board any aircraft which would normally float to the surface......seat cushions, loose baggage, plastics, etc.
Yes we all know it's a huge vast ocean (world third largest), but since Marine Traffic opened the site up to everything, we've been able to see how many cargo ships are using it.
To the best of my knowledge, nobody's said there's weren't any other phone links. The emphasis of the recent investigation has been on the flight crew (as it seems obvious that someone was at the controls, and they were the last ones known to be in the cockpit) so this information is relevant to that line of enquiry.
My understanding is that this story was "leaked", so it's possible that the source only had information about the co-pilot's phone.
There's also been a suggestion that the US knew about this information quite some time ago; the implication being that the US is helping with that aspect of the investigation, just as they did with the pilot's computer.
Hishammuddin has name dropped MI 5 or 6 (can't remember which) a couple of times saying that they are helping out with the investigation, and then usually follows that with one of his cryptic 'all will be revealed one day/never' quotes.
There is just so much more to this story, most of which the public is not privvy to it seems. And as Bullet has mentioned, the lack of debris, not so much as a seat cushion has been found. It's not just Angus that is obsessed with finding debris, I think we are all desperate for them to find something now, even if it's only a Malaysian safety card or a sick bag!
RIDICULOUS: It's just baseless conspiracy theories, says US embassy official
WASHINGTON has strongly refuted all allegations of a cover-up in the mystery surrounding the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.
As discussions, including on social media, on United States purported role behind the Boeing jetliner going missing continue to swirl, Washington, through its embassy here, said that they were all "baseless conspiracy theories".
The US Embassy here, in an email to the New Straits Times, said claims that MH370 was hidden somewhere in its island military base, Diego Garcia, were also wild allegations.
Agreed. At the moment, the idea that it has crashed into the sea, somewhere in that vague area is still only 'the best theory at the moment'. It would be nice to at least move it up a notch from that....
* Edit *
Path of the cyclone - moving right to left.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/74/Gillian_2014_track.png
One hole in the Diego Garcia theory, off the top of my head....
Whilst this whole thing has actually burst many people's belief that the whole surface of the earth is monitored by real-time spy satellites at all times, the Chinese, Russians, etc. probably do keep an eye on the Diego Garcia airfield.
It went right to left * ... starting in the Gulf of Carpentaria at the top of Oz, then heading west, down pretty much smack over the latest search area, then off out into the middle of the Indian Ocean which isn't (as far as I know) crossed by many main shipping lanes.
* I added that bit in as an edit to my original post, so you probably didn't see it at the time.
That's a good observation, and the other thing is that it was at least a week after that before they started searching that far north (where the cyclone had passed through) which gave plenty of time for more and more of any debris to be scattered far and wide or sink. No wonder they are having trouble finding any!
The debris search seems to be moving south again now, as they try to fill any gaps I guess, rather than from any significant new information.
Though, of course, the 'scattered far and wide' theory also increases the likelihood of someone, somewhere, spotting something.....
Perhaps... eventually, but that could be years away! Also, after more of it has became waterlogged, broken, punctured, submerged etc., what remains may have become just a small proportion by now of the general detritis out there. Speculation I know, but as they haven't found anything yet...
It changes from finding a needle in a haystack to finding one of a dozen pinheads in a field of flattened haystacks sprayed liberally with annoying useless grains of sand!
I also agree that it's odd that there's been not a single shred of debris found. I understand completely about it possibly having travelled for hundreds of miles now, but to have nothing, not one tiny piece found & confirmed as having come from MH370 is just adding fuel to the CT fires right now.
Add in the potential phonecall from the copilot which I'm inclined to believe, as in at the very least his phone connected to a mast over Penang & like Soo says, there's always at least one person who doesn't turn their phone off or turn it to airplane mode so it's strange there haven't been more claims of phones having connected...maybe there have but there's more mileage in the news that the co pilot tried or did make a call than there is in Mr/Ms Jiangs phone did (name plucked at random).
I don't believe the plane is in Diego Garcia for a minute but I'm damned if I believe they didn't track that plane, even by accident without knowing what it was at the time, on their radar. This base is hush hush & high tech as far as I know & I'd be willing to bet that their technical capabilities there go way beyond what is universally known.
I can't see them having known what the plane was at the time as I doubt the Malaysians called up the US military at Diego Garcia & told them they'd got an AWOL plane & had they seen it, not until afterwards anyway.
I'm even starting to wonder if the Maldives sightings were genuine.
I agree with BG, there are other underwater rovers capable of going much deeper than Bluefin & I question why they aren't being utilised on this search. They had plenty of time to ask a country who owns one for the use of it & they've known since day one that they decided MH370 landed in the Indian Ocean that they were potentially looking at incredible depths undersea.
I agree with Angus in that I want to see some wreckage, a bit of floating debris, something, anything! that confirms that area is MH370's final resting place. Not because I believe it's in Khandahar or Somalia or Diego Garcia or anywhere else the ridiculous CT's say it is, but because without something, anything, and without finding the black boxes or underwater wreckage (which I'm crossing everything & hoping against hope for) we cannot even at this stage say MH370 is even there...& until we can these ridiculous CT's are not going to go away.
You...you should have known better than to post that!!!
Don't you know the government controls the weather...in fact I'd say they sent that cyclone right over that area, right at that time so that when they find nothing they can say, 'oh it was all scattered to the four corners of the earth by a completely random & not at all government generated (honest guv) cyclone. ;-)
We can expect that to be on the DI forum imminently
That's the rub isn't it.
The only place that plane could be if the extrapolation of data narrowing it down to that area of the arc was correct, is in the area they're currently searching.
This whole thing is just a mass of contradictions piled on top of a heap of uncertainty
Sorry if I am out of order.
I too, am wondering about the Maldives sightings. There was an awful lot of people who said they saw it fly over, it does seem too many people to be involved in a cruel hoax. What was the outcome of round fire extinguisher thing that washed up - was that fake?
I also agree about DG, I am sure they did track the plane that night but to admit that would be to admit their true purpose and capabilities.
Still too many unanswered questions - how much fuel was the plane carrying? What was in the cargo hold, was it 4 tonnes of mangosteens even though we know they are not harvested until next month?
How do you fake IMMARSAT info? Probably not intentionally faked, it might be that just one calculation is slightly out, or a dec point is in the wrong place, i.e. some minor error which may have resulted in a search area miles from where they are.
Someones going to make a lot of money writing a book about this whole mystery.
Who's bothering Takae?
I've had a quick read but I can't see anything that mentions him
A good example is to look at the devastation left after the Tsunami of 2004, ironically in the Indian Ocean, and the mass of rubble left after that which went on for hundreds if not thousands of miles.
With regards to the possible fire extinguisher I think Lightdragon is better off answering that...that's been her baby since the object was found & she will know the latest news on that.
The main question I have about the Maldives 'sightings' is why leave it so long to mention it? They said themselves they don't have planes that big flying over them at that altitude & that's how they knew it was strange...if that was the case then why wasn't it reported earlier? I know the Maldives are tropical islands in the middle of nowhere but they're also a very popular holiday destination & have newspapers, internet etc & they must have known pretty much as soon as any of us did that MH370 was missing. It can't have been that they just didn't think there could possibly be a connection until one of them said 'oh hey, you think that bigass plane that flew right over us over a week ago could have been that missing 777?'
I don't believe the Inmarsat data can possibly be incorrect, these guys are experts in their field. If it had come out quicker than it did then maybe you could say possibly a sloppy job cos they were rushed, but these guys took their time & pieced it all together slowly & logically. I guess it's just as Cough says & the cyclone & ocean swells have carried it far & wide & sunk it back down etc.
I'm not one of these people that want instant results & answers (heck, I watched Lost for 6 seasons & never really did get answers
I'm just as confused as anyone
Oh a couple of pages back. Someone had a single post having a go.
It just annoyed me. Lot of Racism about the handling of the affair.
I worked for a Japanese company for 15 years, and been to Tokyo many times (of course KL is not Japan). But I've visited Taiwan and Hong Kong too.
I love and hate the Far East, iit really is a culture difference. More love than hate xx
Ah ok.
I think there's understandable frustration about how it's been handled by all concerned & the sentiment is a bit that the Chinese, unintentionally & obviously under a lot of pressure since most of the souls on board were their citizens, have possibly impeded the search as it took Echo away for a week or so from the area other pings were heard in as of course the Chinese pings rightly had to be checked out fully.
I understand why they did what they did & used the equipment they had available & announced they'd heard pings. I just wish they'd trusted more & got independent verification before announcing it in the way they did. If that makes sense.
Nobody would be having a deliberate pop at Takae I hope, since I agree they're a very decent DS poster. They've certainly taught me a few things during this post & I'm grateful for that