Sorry but that's so poor for a national broadcaster not even to have a commentator at all games. It was done in 2010, '06, '02 etc so why not now?
Are the BBC doing the same?
Whilst disappointing, I can see why if they're not going to be producing highlights programmes like they did in the tournaments you mention. They may as well use the world feed comms for the 2-3 minute clips of goals in the build up, nobody would probably notice outside this thread and is cost-efficient . Probably only the BBC's England game(s!) and the big knockout matches will be given their own highlight edit with Matterface.
The BBC on the other hand will surely have someone covering all games for their own morning highlights shows.
Whilst disappointing, I can see why if they're not going to be producing highlights programmes like they did in the tournaments you mention. They may as well use the world feed comms for the 2-3 minute clips of goals in the build up, nobody would probably notice outside this thread and is cost-efficient . Probably only the BBC's England game(s!) and the big knockout matches will be given their own highlight edit with Matterface.
The BBC on the other hand will surely have someone covering all games for their own morning highlights shows.
yea BBC are taking 5 comms, which itv should do too but i think we are all looking over the top for this 4th ITV comm, look closer to home...
Ben Andrews and Joe Blake-Turner. i think it will be one of them two....
Sorry but that's so poor for a national broadcaster not even to have a commentator at all games. It was done in 2010, '06, '02 etc so why not now?
Are the BBC doing the same?
In all of those tournaments ITV showed every game - those which weren't live were shown in full delayed or as highlights. That's not the case this time, so why should ITV waste money flying dozens of people (because it's not just a commentator and co-commentator but also a producer, a sound engineer and security) around Brazil to go to games where nobody will ever hear them?
The BBC is showing highlights of every game, and yet I doubt they will send teams to every game either - certainly they wouldn't be able to do it logistically with the five commentators they are reported to be taking.
yea BBC are taking 5 comms, which itv should do too but i think we are all looking over the top for this 4th ITV comm, look closer to home...
Ben Andrews and Joe Blake-Turner. i think it will be one of them two....
I think you should be looking further away from home.
I think you should be looking further away from home.
lol even if we guess right, your not gonna tell us if we are right or wrong.. so how about just tell us?
Tim Caple, Wayne Boyce, Tony Jones, Gary Taphouse, Dan O'Hagan, Steve Hunter, Peter Brackley
lol even if we guess right, your not gonna tell us if we are right or wrong.. so how about just tell us?
Tim Caple, Wayne Boyce, Tony Jones, Gary Taphouse, Dan O'Hagan, Steve Hunter, Peter Brackley
Steve Hunter? Wasn't he a PC in The Bill?
Mind you wasn't Tony Jones in The Bill...
Loved Neville tonight on the Jarvis incident - 'he can go home and have a pat on the back from his nan'.
Sorry but that's so poor for a national broadcaster not even to have a commentator at all games. It was done in 2010, '06, '02 etc so why not now?
Are the BBC doing the same?
Poor is an understatement. Shocking is the word i would use. ITV and arius can dress it up all they like but there is simply no excuse for this limited and dumbed down coverage. There is something fundamentally wrong with ITV's football coverage, first of all the way in which Peter Drury and Jon Champion have been treated and now this.
Poor is an understatement. Shocking is the word i would use. ITV and arius can dress it up all they like but there is simply no excuse for this limited and dumbed down coverage. There is something fundamentally wrong with ITV's football coverage, first of all the way in which Peter Drury and Jon Champion have been treated and now this.
RIP
Whilst I'm def not ITVs biggest fan - I don't see what the issue is in them not sending commentators to games they aren't showing live/extended highlights of. Am I missing something here?
Poor is an understatement. Shocking is the word i would use. ITV and arius can dress it up all they like but there is simply no excuse for this limited and dumbed down coverage.
Do you think it is shocking that the BBC doesn't send commentators to Monday night Premier League games (and in most cases not to Tuesday night ones either?)
Or that it uses world feed commentaries on Football League games rather than sending its own commentators?
I'm puzzled why you think ITV should commentate at all on games that it isn't showing on television, let alone be on site for those commentaries?
I'm puzzled why you think ITV should commentate at all on games that it isn't showing on television, let alone be on site for those commentaries?
well they have done for the past few world cups, cost cutting now, be so good when itv only have football a couple times of the year, cause lets face it, its shocking
Do you think it is shocking that the BBC doesn't send commentators to Monday night Premier League games (and in most cases not to Tuesday night ones either?)
Or that it uses world feed commentaries on Football League games rather than sending its own commentators?
I'm puzzled why you think ITV should commentate at all on games that it isn't showing on television, let alone be on site for those commentaries?
If this is happening this year then why hasn't it happened in the past?
To compare a global event which is the the 2nd biggest sporting event on this planet, which only happens once every 4 years to that of a (semi) national event which is ongoing through 10 months of the year, every year is just a poor excuse and shows you to be simply clutching at straws.
Anyway the BBC do send commentators to Monday (and Tuesday) night Premier League games, albeit a BBC 5Live commentator, as shown last night when Conor McNamara was at the Emirates Stadium.
Also BBC only have highlights rights for the Premier League where as ITV have co-exclusive live rights for the World Cup. What is the point in ITV having these rights if they can't be bothered to cover it properly and fully? What happens to people who don't like the BBC coverage and simply refuse to watch it, like i do with that of ITV's? They are simply being conned and short changed and by a broadcaster who should hang their hands in shame with this latest decision.
But after what has happened in previous months and years with ITV's football coverage it doesn't come as a surprise. The likes of Tyldesley, Matterrface, Speight, Chiles, Townsend, and Carlisle just back this point up and are not fit for purpose and aren't even local radio standard let alone national TV standard.
well they have done for the past few world cups, cost cutting now, be so good when itv only have football a couple times of the year, cause lets face it, its shocking
As I said before, for the "last few" World Cups, ITV has shown highlights of every game. This time it isn't. And that's simply down to the time zone of the host country.
To compare a global event which is the the 2nd biggest sporting event on this planet, which only happens once every 4 years to that of a (semi) national event which is ongoing through 10 months of the year, every year is just a poor excuse and shows you to be simply clutching at straws.
Anyway the BBC do send commentators to Monday (and Tuesday) night Premier League games, albeit a BBC 5Live commentator, as shown last night when Conor McNamara was at the Emirates Stadium.
I think you're the one clutching at straws, looking for ways to criticise ITV for making perfectly sensible decisions.
If you're being picky I'll rephrase it as "BBC TV doesn't send commentators to Monday and Tuesday night EPL games and has to take commentaries off the radio when it uses that footage."
Also BBC only have highlights rights for the Premier League where as ITV have co-exclusive live rights for the World Cup. What is the point in ITV having these rights if they can't be bothered to cover it properly and fully?
ITV may have co-exclusive live rights, but 63 of those games are being shown exclusively by one broadcaster, so it's not really co-exclusive at all. If you believe for a moment that the BBC isn't going to off-tube the vast majority of the games that are live on ITV you are very naive.
The likes of Tyldesley, Matterrface, Speight, Chiles, Townsend, and Carlisle just back this point up and are not fit for purpose and aren't even local radio standard let alone national TV standard.
ITV do have a very poor line up of commentators for such a major event, i don't think they would even come in 4th in line ups compared to the likes of the BBC, ESPN and maybe even the Australian network.
The thought of Sam Matterface covering a major game involving the likes maybe of Brazil etc is something i would never of expected lets say 6months ago.
Gazza1982 i do agree with you about Champion and Drury, maybe if they treated both better they would both be working for them in this World Cup but i think its clear Champion in particular was never going to be in favour with the network.
Ive just been looking through this thread from when the 2010 World Cup took place and its amazing how much things have changed, particularly at ITV.
Adrian Chiles has just joined ITV and was highly rated on here. People liked his laid back approach and probably prefered him to Steve Rider. People were questioning why ITV had given Matt Smith some live games. Now Matt Smith is very highly rated on these forums and I hope he has a big role to play in ITV's world cup coverage, despite them not having any highlight shows.
BBC had Liniker presenting almost all live games and Colin Murray on the highlights show. Murray's show was more of a calm look at the days action than anything else. I remember on day 2 they didn't even show the South Korea v Greece goals! I enjoyed this though, considering I had probably seen all the goals anyway either live or in the live match coverage. This year I would expect Mark Chapman to present the highlights and for it to be a more comprehensive look at the previous days action. People wouldn't have seen all of the goals with some matches kicking off at 11pm.
On the commentators side ITV took Tyldsley, Drury, Champion and Crocker. I can't believe that a team of 4 commentators, all of whom I enjoy listening too, has turned into Tyldsley, Matterface and Speight. So many people were criticising Peter Drury in 2010 but I think we would all happily have him back now ahead of Matterface!
BBC took Mowbray, Wilson, Pearce, Brotherton and Bower. This certainly wont change this time around but hopefully we will see the top games shared around a little. I agree with the points made on here the other day that Mowbray is not a number 1. If I worked for the BBC then I would give the World Cup final to whoever performs the best at the tournament.
Finally we have the co-commentators. ITV had Coleman, Beglin and Burley, as well as Andy Townsend on England games. None of these three I expect to go to Brazil this summer and its the shame that we don't get to listen to Beglin or Burley. Townsend and Carlise will both go to Brazil this summer but I can't think of who a third co-commentator would be. I've heard Lee Dixon on an NBC game this season and he was much better than Andy Townsend. I wonder if ITV would be considering using him on commentary.
BBC had Lawrenson, Keown, Bright and McCarthy. There's been reports that Mark Bright won't be going but I would expect Lawrenson, Keown and Bright to be in Brazil. There's also been reports that Phil Neville will commentate on England games. That would be a gamble from the BBC and I hope that he's just as good as his brother! I think Kevin Kilbane will also commentate in Brazil. I thought he was great at the Confederations Cup last summer so hopefully he can deliver the same again this time around.
Overall, I expect ITVs coverage to be much worse this year than in 2010, particularly in the commentary box. BBC will put in decent coverage, as usual. At least we won't miss England's first goal this time around though
If this is happening this year then why hasn't it happened in the past?
.
Well I think the easy answer is that in the last few World Cups all the day's games have been finished by 10pm (or 3pm in 2002!) lending themselves to a regular highlights slot which is going to be reasonably attractive to viewers, particularly those who might have been at work for the early afternoon game for instance.
Whereas in Brazil for the first two weeks the games aren't going to be finishing until 1am! Not too many people are going to be watching a highlights show then, and there's a limited number of people who'll be up to watch highlights at 2am who weren't around to watch the live match at 8pm or whatever. They can't really have a standalone highlights show between 5pm and 1am because they'll either be showing a live match or the BBC will be in the process of showing a live match, and they're not going to want to disrupt the 6pm/10pm news too much I'd have thought unless they've got a live game. Plus what highlights would you show? It's probably a bit late to show the highlights from the previous day at 7pm even if they wanted to (which they're not going to, as they'll want the likes of Emmerdale/Corrie on as much as possible rather than highlights.) Equally it would seem a bit odd to have a highlights show in the evening at say 10.35 which is missing one of the day's games (and in any case if ITV had the 11pm match this wouldn't be possible, if ITV had the 8pm match the 10pm news might start a bit later so this wouldn't be possible, and they'd be directly clashing with the BBC's coverage of the 11pm game.)
The only realistic options would be to have a comprehensive highlights show at a reasonably unattractive time between 1am and 5pm or to just generally not have a highlights show at all but show the goals and have some discussion in their main live programme. It looks like they're going for the second approach which I can fully understand. I hope ITV will at least make some time for some reasonably decent discussion of what else has been happening though - perhaps starting coverage for their 5pm games at 4pm for instance or going on past 1am for their 11pm live games.
Adrian Chiles has just joined ITV and was highly rated on here. People liked his laid back approach and probably prefered him to Steve Rider. People were questioning why ITV had given Matt Smith some live games. Now Matt Smith is very highly rated on these forums and I hope he has a big role to play in ITV's world cup coverage, despite them not having any highlight shows.
I'm sure Matt will be very prominent in the World Cup, no doubt he'll be presenting a number of the live games, there's enough for two to present them. It reminds me a bit of Euro 2008 when Steve Rider and Matt shared out the live games (albeit because Rider was doing the F1 at the same time) and Craig Doyle was on highlights duty.
I was one of those rating Chiles highly in 2010. Around the 2006 World Cup I would have said he was my favourite presenter and I watched all the BBC highlights shows in that World Cup for him. I used to love him on MOTD2 in those days, he was such a breath of fresh air and hugely influential. I remember when ITV started showing the FA Cup in 2008, for the first season they had a blatant 2 Bad 2 Good rip-off at the end of their highlights shows.
Unfortunately the saddest sight of the 2010 World Cup was seeing Adrian die on his arse doing some of his trademark bits of business in front of Edgar Davids and Patrick Vieira who just smiled politely. Not the best audience for him, I think. But I'm looking forward to Chiles in the World Cup to see him kick back and relax.
BBC had Liniker presenting almost all live games and Colin Murray on the highlights show. Murray's show was more of a calm look at the days action than anything else. I remember on day 2 they didn't even show the South Korea v Greece goals! I enjoyed this though, considering I had probably seen all the goals anyway either live or in the live match coverage. This year I would expect Mark Chapman to present the highlights and for it to be a more comprehensive look at the previous days action. People wouldn't have seen all of the goals with some matches kicking off at 11pm.
Yeah, the highlights shows on the Beeb in 2010 were more of a magazine programme, often starting straight after the live match coverage had finished. One reason for that was the 7.30 kick-offs which meant BBC1 had that extra half hour from 9.30 to 10pm which they used for chat and highlights and other features (I remember one night they did that long feature on the 1990 World Cup, with Gary interviewed and captioned "GARY LINEKER" in case you didn't know who he was). So there was less need for a highlights show. Whereas ITV finished their coverage at 9.30 and then did a conventional highlights show later.
I hope ITV will at least make some time for some reasonably decent discussion of what else has been happening though - perhaps starting coverage for their 5pm games at 4pm for instance or going on past 1am for their 11pm live games.
I mentioned this the other week, I do hope they take the opportunity to extend the coverage, because out of primetime it's not like anything else takes priority. If we're staying up past 1am we may as well make a night of it, and if nothing else you get more programming for your money.
I totally agree with the lack of a need for a highlights show, on ITV at least. If the Beeb are going to do a daily morning wrap-up, what's the point of ITV duplicating it? It's a bit like in 2002 when the Beeb were on at 7pm every night to cover the morning kick-offs and I found that convenient and so didn't need to watch ITV's highlights later. If the Beeb are going to be on every morning, which would seem to be the most convenient slot, there's no need for ITV to do the same in a lesser slot.
I find most of the criticism levelled at ITV on this page to be totally subjective and often unfair. For 95% of the audience the important bit of the World Cup is the live games, and ITV will be covering them fully. They'll show the goals from the other games and if people want more extensive coverage they can find it. And from someone who proudly states they don't watch ITV, I don't know why they're so bothered, other than being contrary for the sake of it.
Now Matt Smith is very highly rated on these forums and I hope he has a big role to play in ITV's world cup coverage, despite them not having any highlight shows.
This year I would expect Mark Chapman to present the highlights and for it to be a more comprehensive look at the previous days action. People wouldn't have seen all of the goals with some matches kicking off at 11pm.
BBC took Mowbray, Wilson, Pearce, Brotherton and Bower. This certainly wont change this time around but hopefully we will see the top games shared around a little. I agree with the points made on here the other day that Mowbray is not a number 1. If I worked for the BBC then I would give the World Cup final to whoever performs the best at the tournament.
Finally we have the co-commentators. ITV had Coleman, Beglin and Burley, as well as Andy Townsend on England games. None of these three I expect to go to Brazil this summer and its the shame that we don't get to listen to Beglin or Burley. Townsend and Carlise will both go to Brazil this summer but I can't think of who a third co-commentator would be. I've heard Lee Dixon on an NBC game this season and he was much better than Andy Townsend. I wonder if ITV would be considering using him on commentary.
so i just picked out some stuff from your post..
Matt Smith, i think he is a great presenter, has come on so much, but i doubt he will get much of a chance at this World Cup
Chapman i think he is good, but isnt he working for BBC radio too for this World Cup?
All BBC comms get the same amount of Live games in the group stages well they did last time round, and i hope that continues, i hope Kevin Kilbane is used as a co comm, and a pundit, hes done very well this season....
and i do hope ITV used Lee Dixon as a co comm for the england matches rather than Townsend....
I personally believe ITV are being quite sensible here and agree entirely with Readingfans post.
Surely it would make more sense for ITV to maybe just show the goals from the previous days games in the next days build up? They could then have Adrian and pundits talking over it, people would still see anything they've missed ahead of the game they've tuned in for, with no real expense to ITV.
The best half way house for me personally would be something like the app they used in 2010, that was very good. Match snippets could be put on there with world feed commentary? I doubt most people would notice the commentators, then they'd be accessible to everyone at anytime again at no real cost.
If the World Cup was in a time zone similar to the last two tournaments I'd fully expect ITV to do highlights and would be annoyed if they didn't do so but the way it pans out the schedule doesn't lend itself to highlights.
Ive just been looking through this thread from when the 2010 World Cup took place and its amazing how much things have changed, particularly at ITV.
Adrian Chiles has just joined ITV and was highly rated on here. People liked his laid back approach and probably prefered him to Steve Rider. People were questioning why ITV had given Matt Smith some live games. Now Matt Smith is very highly rated on these forums and I hope he has a big role to play in ITV's world cup coverage, despite them not having any highlight shows.
BBC had Liniker presenting almost all live games and Colin Murray on the highlights show. Murray's show was more of a calm look at the days action than anything else. I remember on day 2 they didn't even show the South Korea v Greece goals! I enjoyed this though, considering I had probably seen all the goals anyway either live or in the live match coverage. This year I would expect Mark Chapman to present the highlights and for it to be a more comprehensive look at the previous days action. People wouldn't have seen all of the goals with some matches kicking off at 11pm.
On the commentators side ITV took Tyldsley, Drury, Champion and Crocker. I can't believe that a team of 4 commentators, all of whom I enjoy listening too, has turned into Tyldsley, Matterface and Speight. So many people were criticising Peter Drury in 2010 but I think we would all happily have him back now ahead of Matterface!
BBC took Mowbray, Wilson, Pearce, Brotherton and Bower. This certainly wont change this time around but hopefully we will see the top games shared around a little. I agree with the points made on here the other day that Mowbray is not a number 1. If I worked for the BBC then I would give the World Cup final to whoever performs the best at the tournament.
Finally we have the co-commentators. ITV had Coleman, Beglin and Burley, as well as Andy Townsend on England games. None of these three I expect to go to Brazil this summer and its the shame that we don't get to listen to Beglin or Burley. Townsend and Carlise will both go to Brazil this summer but I can't think of who a third co-commentator would be. I've heard Lee Dixon on an NBC game this season and he was much better than Andy Townsend. I wonder if ITV would be considering using him on commentary.
BBC had Lawrenson, Keown, Bright and McCarthy. There's been reports that Mark Bright won't be going but I would expect Lawrenson, Keown and Bright to be in Brazil. There's also been reports that Phil Neville will commentate on England games. That would be a gamble from the BBC and I hope that he's just as good as his brother! I think Kevin Kilbane will also commentate in Brazil. I thought he was great at the Confederations Cup last summer so hopefully he can deliver the same again this time around.
Overall, I expect ITVs coverage to be much worse this year than in 2010, particularly in the commentary box. BBC will put in decent coverage, as usual. At least we won't miss England's first goal this time around though
I think ITV's commentary decline will quite rightly be the big talking point this summer. It's amazing to think ITV had two of the best co-commentators around for me in Beglin and Burley as their only co-commentators on their live knockout matches last time. They also had an excellent commentator in Champion and a decent enough one in Drury. Yet somehow they've contrived to lose all four of them and haven't adequately replaced them at all. I think serious question marks have to be asked of the likes of Niall Sloane for this. They've basically just moved everyone up one so Matterface and Speight have gone from numbers 4/5 to 2/3. Logically at some point you can't just keep promoting people. It's a bit like when Martin Tyler goes in my view. Rob Hawthorne is acceptable as a number 2 perhaps but not as a number 1 for me. The problem is I can't see this improving for ITV any time soon considering their lack of football over the next few years.
I do like Clarke Carlisle in a punditry role. I think he's been very good on the BT Monday evening show when speaking about some sensitive subjects. He's considered and articulate, as demonstrated by his previous role at the PFA. I do though think he's better in a studio role. I'm not sure his voice is strong enough for co-commentary. He just doesn't sound right when I've heard him previously. Andy Townsend...well I just can't believe he's number 1 to be honest. He's so poor it's untrue. How they replaced Pleat and Beglin with him I'll never know. I'm interested to see who will be ITV's third co-commentator. Will they go in alongside Speight and do the less attractive games, or will they bring someone in to partner Tyldesley like they have at the group stage for the past two World Cups (in Southgate and Coleman.)
I do think ITV's studio coverage should be better this time though. I came across the start of their coverage of the final for the last World Cup a few weeks ago which had the golden broadcasting trio of Desailly, Southgate and Townsend as pundits! This year it might realistically be Dixon, Keane and Hoddle for the final (unless they manage to find a way to sneak Ian Wright in there.) They've had the likes of Strachan come on board too. If they could get another couple of decent signings I think they'd be doing well - Martin O'Neill is the one I'd really love to go with them.
As for the BBC, I think their overall coverage level will be similar to last time. It's a shame they won't have Klinsmann or Dixon with them this time (I'm not sure about Clarence Seedorf?) as I thought they were the best they had for the last World Cup. I'll be interested to see how the likes of Ferdinand, Henry and Phil Neville get on though. I think Mark Chapman is a much better host than Colin Murray (it sounds like he'll be doing a combination of TV and radio, as will Dan Walker) and hopefully Tim Vickery will be used prominently. I guess the BBC might not have as much time for some of their very good features that they had in South Africa (as mentioned the evening game tended to finish just after 9.15 so they had a lot of screen time until the 10pm news. This year kick off is at 8pm for the primetime match.)
They could potentially have a very good Euro 2016 line-up though - I think Vialli might be available for that, as would Klinsmann with his current commitments. That would be a strong starting point. On which note, I hope they make use of their links with Vialli and Klinsmann in the summer. They could for instance have a few interviews with Vialli, particularly ahead of the Italy V England match. I'd hope they'd interview Klinsmann and Gary Neville too, partly because of their roles with national teams but also because they have proven punditry experience. If you get 5-10 minutes with one of them about USA/England as well as some more general questions about how Germany will get on (in Klinsmann's case), previous World Cup memories, teams to look out for in the tournament, etc. then you're basically getting free punditry for a bit. Certainly if I were ITV or BBC I'd be looking to speak to Gary Neville as much as possible - indeed I wouldn't rule out a 1-on-1 interview between Phil Neville/Rio Ferdinand and Gary Neville for the BBC, much like the interviews between say Gary Neville & Giggs or Jamie Carragher and Brendan Rodgers that we've seen on Sky.
As for the commentators I don't expect Mark Bright to go with the BBC, and if he does he certainly won't have as prominent role as he did in 2010. I hope Mick McCarthy goes again; I think him and Jonathan Pearce had a good partnership in 2010. I'd like Kevin Kilbane to do co-commentary again too. Their commentators generally do pretty well. I'd prefer Steve Wilson to be first choice but there does at least seem to be some sort of even-ish split between the top three.
I'm pretty certain I've seen Kilbane just as a radio co-comm but I might be wrong
I take it back, if the BBC are doing off-tube then it's just as bad as ITV but I understand the time difference issue. If off-tubing happens in Russia then it will be worse IMO
As for ITV's comm/co-comm line up, I think everyone has said it on here, it's poor but of course we don't know the full line up yet! If I were them, I'd try for Andy Gray.
I guess Kilbane went with 5 Live in Euro 2012. I suspect he'll just do one or the other. If he does radio I think that would increase the chances of Mick McCarthy being used again (he did do this year's League Cup final with 5 Live after all) and maybe Phil Neville would also be a more regular co-commentator than just the England games.
On the subject of 5 Live, Charles Sale reported this morning that Graham Taylor had been 'overlooked' as England's analyst for the summer. Danny Mills will be doing it instead. I don't know if this means Taylor's been dropped from England but will still be in Brazil, or if he's just not well enough to go to Brazil - I read the other week he'd had another fall. A shame if true. I think Taylor and Jimmy Armfield are two of the best radio pundits around. It would be nice if they could still contribute in some way - maybe on the morning highlights show if that's coming from the UK?
And someone mentioned Matt Smith earlier. I agree there will be quite a lot for him to do - I mean on days 2 and 3 for instance ITV have 2 games so he might well present one of those. I wouldn't be surprised if he fulfils the Jim Rosenthal role of presenting from the stadium for some games too. Arius did say some games (ITV4 I think) would be presented from London - I wonder who will do those?
Comments
ITV won't be commentating at all on most of the BBC games.
I've said before that the fourth man won't get many games.
Sorry but that's so poor for a national broadcaster not even to have a commentator at all games. It was done in 2010, '06, '02 etc so why not now?
Are the BBC doing the same?
Whilst disappointing, I can see why if they're not going to be producing highlights programmes like they did in the tournaments you mention. They may as well use the world feed comms for the 2-3 minute clips of goals in the build up, nobody would probably notice outside this thread and is cost-efficient . Probably only the BBC's England game(s!) and the big knockout matches will be given their own highlight edit with Matterface.
The BBC on the other hand will surely have someone covering all games for their own morning highlights shows.
yea BBC are taking 5 comms, which itv should do too but i think we are all looking over the top for this 4th ITV comm, look closer to home...
Ben Andrews and Joe Blake-Turner. i think it will be one of them two....
In all of those tournaments ITV showed every game - those which weren't live were shown in full delayed or as highlights. That's not the case this time, so why should ITV waste money flying dozens of people (because it's not just a commentator and co-commentator but also a producer, a sound engineer and security) around Brazil to go to games where nobody will ever hear them?
The BBC is showing highlights of every game, and yet I doubt they will send teams to every game either - certainly they wouldn't be able to do it logistically with the five commentators they are reported to be taking.
I think you should be looking further away from home.
Tim Caple, Wayne Boyce, Tony Jones, Gary Taphouse, Dan O'Hagan, Steve Hunter, Peter Brackley
Steve Hunter? Wasn't he a PC in The Bill?
Mind you wasn't Tony Jones in The Bill...
Loved Neville tonight on the Jarvis incident - 'he can go home and have a pat on the back from his nan'.
Poor is an understatement. Shocking is the word i would use. ITV and arius can dress it up all they like but there is simply no excuse for this limited and dumbed down coverage. There is something fundamentally wrong with ITV's football coverage, first of all the way in which Peter Drury and Jon Champion have been treated and now this.
RIP
Whilst I'm def not ITVs biggest fan - I don't see what the issue is in them not sending commentators to games they aren't showing live/extended highlights of. Am I missing something here?
Do you think it is shocking that the BBC doesn't send commentators to Monday night Premier League games (and in most cases not to Tuesday night ones either?)
Or that it uses world feed commentaries on Football League games rather than sending its own commentators?
I'm puzzled why you think ITV should commentate at all on games that it isn't showing on television, let alone be on site for those commentaries?
lol Steve Hunter is a comm on LFCTV....
well they have done for the past few world cups, cost cutting now, be so good when itv only have football a couple times of the year, cause lets face it, its shocking
If this is happening this year then why hasn't it happened in the past?
To compare a global event which is the the 2nd biggest sporting event on this planet, which only happens once every 4 years to that of a (semi) national event which is ongoing through 10 months of the year, every year is just a poor excuse and shows you to be simply clutching at straws.
Anyway the BBC do send commentators to Monday (and Tuesday) night Premier League games, albeit a BBC 5Live commentator, as shown last night when Conor McNamara was at the Emirates Stadium.
Also BBC only have highlights rights for the Premier League where as ITV have co-exclusive live rights for the World Cup. What is the point in ITV having these rights if they can't be bothered to cover it properly and fully? What happens to people who don't like the BBC coverage and simply refuse to watch it, like i do with that of ITV's? They are simply being conned and short changed and by a broadcaster who should hang their hands in shame with this latest decision.
But after what has happened in previous months and years with ITV's football coverage it doesn't come as a surprise. The likes of Tyldesley, Matterrface, Speight, Chiles, Townsend, and Carlisle just back this point up and are not fit for purpose and aren't even local radio standard let alone national TV standard.
As I said before, for the "last few" World Cups, ITV has shown highlights of every game. This time it isn't. And that's simply down to the time zone of the host country.
I think you're the one clutching at straws, looking for ways to criticise ITV for making perfectly sensible decisions.
If you're being picky I'll rephrase it as "BBC TV doesn't send commentators to Monday and Tuesday night EPL games and has to take commentaries off the radio when it uses that footage."
ITV may have co-exclusive live rights, but 63 of those games are being shown exclusively by one broadcaster, so it's not really co-exclusive at all. If you believe for a moment that the BBC isn't going to off-tube the vast majority of the games that are live on ITV you are very naive.
You're just making yourself look silly here.
i think ITV are doing that themselfs....
ITV do have a very poor line up of commentators for such a major event, i don't think they would even come in 4th in line ups compared to the likes of the BBC, ESPN and maybe even the Australian network.
The thought of Sam Matterface covering a major game involving the likes maybe of Brazil etc is something i would never of expected lets say 6months ago.
Gazza1982 i do agree with you about Champion and Drury, maybe if they treated both better they would both be working for them in this World Cup but i think its clear Champion in particular was never going to be in favour with the network.
Adrian Chiles has just joined ITV and was highly rated on here. People liked his laid back approach and probably prefered him to Steve Rider. People were questioning why ITV had given Matt Smith some live games. Now Matt Smith is very highly rated on these forums and I hope he has a big role to play in ITV's world cup coverage, despite them not having any highlight shows.
BBC had Liniker presenting almost all live games and Colin Murray on the highlights show. Murray's show was more of a calm look at the days action than anything else. I remember on day 2 they didn't even show the South Korea v Greece goals! I enjoyed this though, considering I had probably seen all the goals anyway either live or in the live match coverage. This year I would expect Mark Chapman to present the highlights and for it to be a more comprehensive look at the previous days action. People wouldn't have seen all of the goals with some matches kicking off at 11pm.
On the commentators side ITV took Tyldsley, Drury, Champion and Crocker. I can't believe that a team of 4 commentators, all of whom I enjoy listening too, has turned into Tyldsley, Matterface and Speight. So many people were criticising Peter Drury in 2010 but I think we would all happily have him back now ahead of Matterface!
BBC took Mowbray, Wilson, Pearce, Brotherton and Bower. This certainly wont change this time around but hopefully we will see the top games shared around a little. I agree with the points made on here the other day that Mowbray is not a number 1. If I worked for the BBC then I would give the World Cup final to whoever performs the best at the tournament.
Finally we have the co-commentators. ITV had Coleman, Beglin and Burley, as well as Andy Townsend on England games. None of these three I expect to go to Brazil this summer and its the shame that we don't get to listen to Beglin or Burley. Townsend and Carlise will both go to Brazil this summer but I can't think of who a third co-commentator would be. I've heard Lee Dixon on an NBC game this season and he was much better than Andy Townsend. I wonder if ITV would be considering using him on commentary.
BBC had Lawrenson, Keown, Bright and McCarthy. There's been reports that Mark Bright won't be going but I would expect Lawrenson, Keown and Bright to be in Brazil. There's also been reports that Phil Neville will commentate on England games. That would be a gamble from the BBC and I hope that he's just as good as his brother! I think Kevin Kilbane will also commentate in Brazil. I thought he was great at the Confederations Cup last summer so hopefully he can deliver the same again this time around.
Overall, I expect ITVs coverage to be much worse this year than in 2010, particularly in the commentary box. BBC will put in decent coverage, as usual. At least we won't miss England's first goal this time around though
Well I think the easy answer is that in the last few World Cups all the day's games have been finished by 10pm (or 3pm in 2002!) lending themselves to a regular highlights slot which is going to be reasonably attractive to viewers, particularly those who might have been at work for the early afternoon game for instance.
Whereas in Brazil for the first two weeks the games aren't going to be finishing until 1am! Not too many people are going to be watching a highlights show then, and there's a limited number of people who'll be up to watch highlights at 2am who weren't around to watch the live match at 8pm or whatever. They can't really have a standalone highlights show between 5pm and 1am because they'll either be showing a live match or the BBC will be in the process of showing a live match, and they're not going to want to disrupt the 6pm/10pm news too much I'd have thought unless they've got a live game. Plus what highlights would you show? It's probably a bit late to show the highlights from the previous day at 7pm even if they wanted to (which they're not going to, as they'll want the likes of Emmerdale/Corrie on as much as possible rather than highlights.) Equally it would seem a bit odd to have a highlights show in the evening at say 10.35 which is missing one of the day's games (and in any case if ITV had the 11pm match this wouldn't be possible, if ITV had the 8pm match the 10pm news might start a bit later so this wouldn't be possible, and they'd be directly clashing with the BBC's coverage of the 11pm game.)
The only realistic options would be to have a comprehensive highlights show at a reasonably unattractive time between 1am and 5pm or to just generally not have a highlights show at all but show the goals and have some discussion in their main live programme. It looks like they're going for the second approach which I can fully understand. I hope ITV will at least make some time for some reasonably decent discussion of what else has been happening though - perhaps starting coverage for their 5pm games at 4pm for instance or going on past 1am for their 11pm live games.
I'm sure Matt will be very prominent in the World Cup, no doubt he'll be presenting a number of the live games, there's enough for two to present them. It reminds me a bit of Euro 2008 when Steve Rider and Matt shared out the live games (albeit because Rider was doing the F1 at the same time) and Craig Doyle was on highlights duty.
I was one of those rating Chiles highly in 2010. Around the 2006 World Cup I would have said he was my favourite presenter and I watched all the BBC highlights shows in that World Cup for him. I used to love him on MOTD2 in those days, he was such a breath of fresh air and hugely influential. I remember when ITV started showing the FA Cup in 2008, for the first season they had a blatant 2 Bad 2 Good rip-off at the end of their highlights shows.
Unfortunately the saddest sight of the 2010 World Cup was seeing Adrian die on his arse doing some of his trademark bits of business in front of Edgar Davids and Patrick Vieira who just smiled politely. Not the best audience for him, I think. But I'm looking forward to Chiles in the World Cup to see him kick back and relax.
Yeah, the highlights shows on the Beeb in 2010 were more of a magazine programme, often starting straight after the live match coverage had finished. One reason for that was the 7.30 kick-offs which meant BBC1 had that extra half hour from 9.30 to 10pm which they used for chat and highlights and other features (I remember one night they did that long feature on the 1990 World Cup, with Gary interviewed and captioned "GARY LINEKER" in case you didn't know who he was). So there was less need for a highlights show. Whereas ITV finished their coverage at 9.30 and then did a conventional highlights show later.
I mentioned this the other week, I do hope they take the opportunity to extend the coverage, because out of primetime it's not like anything else takes priority. If we're staying up past 1am we may as well make a night of it, and if nothing else you get more programming for your money.
I totally agree with the lack of a need for a highlights show, on ITV at least. If the Beeb are going to do a daily morning wrap-up, what's the point of ITV duplicating it? It's a bit like in 2002 when the Beeb were on at 7pm every night to cover the morning kick-offs and I found that convenient and so didn't need to watch ITV's highlights later. If the Beeb are going to be on every morning, which would seem to be the most convenient slot, there's no need for ITV to do the same in a lesser slot.
I find most of the criticism levelled at ITV on this page to be totally subjective and often unfair. For 95% of the audience the important bit of the World Cup is the live games, and ITV will be covering them fully. They'll show the goals from the other games and if people want more extensive coverage they can find it. And from someone who proudly states they don't watch ITV, I don't know why they're so bothered, other than being contrary for the sake of it.
so i just picked out some stuff from your post..
Matt Smith, i think he is a great presenter, has come on so much, but i doubt he will get much of a chance at this World Cup
Chapman i think he is good, but isnt he working for BBC radio too for this World Cup?
All BBC comms get the same amount of Live games in the group stages well they did last time round, and i hope that continues, i hope Kevin Kilbane is used as a co comm, and a pundit, hes done very well this season....
and i do hope ITV used Lee Dixon as a co comm for the england matches rather than Townsend....
Surely it would make more sense for ITV to maybe just show the goals from the previous days games in the next days build up? They could then have Adrian and pundits talking over it, people would still see anything they've missed ahead of the game they've tuned in for, with no real expense to ITV.
The best half way house for me personally would be something like the app they used in 2010, that was very good. Match snippets could be put on there with world feed commentary? I doubt most people would notice the commentators, then they'd be accessible to everyone at anytime again at no real cost.
If the World Cup was in a time zone similar to the last two tournaments I'd fully expect ITV to do highlights and would be annoyed if they didn't do so but the way it pans out the schedule doesn't lend itself to highlights.
Everton v Crystal Palace - Gary Weaver & Neil Mellor
Manchester City v Sunderland - Ian Crocker & Davie Provan
I think ITV's commentary decline will quite rightly be the big talking point this summer. It's amazing to think ITV had two of the best co-commentators around for me in Beglin and Burley as their only co-commentators on their live knockout matches last time. They also had an excellent commentator in Champion and a decent enough one in Drury. Yet somehow they've contrived to lose all four of them and haven't adequately replaced them at all. I think serious question marks have to be asked of the likes of Niall Sloane for this. They've basically just moved everyone up one so Matterface and Speight have gone from numbers 4/5 to 2/3. Logically at some point you can't just keep promoting people. It's a bit like when Martin Tyler goes in my view. Rob Hawthorne is acceptable as a number 2 perhaps but not as a number 1 for me. The problem is I can't see this improving for ITV any time soon considering their lack of football over the next few years.
I do like Clarke Carlisle in a punditry role. I think he's been very good on the BT Monday evening show when speaking about some sensitive subjects. He's considered and articulate, as demonstrated by his previous role at the PFA. I do though think he's better in a studio role. I'm not sure his voice is strong enough for co-commentary. He just doesn't sound right when I've heard him previously. Andy Townsend...well I just can't believe he's number 1 to be honest. He's so poor it's untrue. How they replaced Pleat and Beglin with him I'll never know. I'm interested to see who will be ITV's third co-commentator. Will they go in alongside Speight and do the less attractive games, or will they bring someone in to partner Tyldesley like they have at the group stage for the past two World Cups (in Southgate and Coleman.)
I do think ITV's studio coverage should be better this time though. I came across the start of their coverage of the final for the last World Cup a few weeks ago which had the golden broadcasting trio of Desailly, Southgate and Townsend as pundits! This year it might realistically be Dixon, Keane and Hoddle for the final (unless they manage to find a way to sneak Ian Wright in there.) They've had the likes of Strachan come on board too. If they could get another couple of decent signings I think they'd be doing well - Martin O'Neill is the one I'd really love to go with them.
As for the BBC, I think their overall coverage level will be similar to last time. It's a shame they won't have Klinsmann or Dixon with them this time (I'm not sure about Clarence Seedorf?) as I thought they were the best they had for the last World Cup. I'll be interested to see how the likes of Ferdinand, Henry and Phil Neville get on though. I think Mark Chapman is a much better host than Colin Murray (it sounds like he'll be doing a combination of TV and radio, as will Dan Walker) and hopefully Tim Vickery will be used prominently. I guess the BBC might not have as much time for some of their very good features that they had in South Africa (as mentioned the evening game tended to finish just after 9.15 so they had a lot of screen time until the 10pm news. This year kick off is at 8pm for the primetime match.)
They could potentially have a very good Euro 2016 line-up though - I think Vialli might be available for that, as would Klinsmann with his current commitments. That would be a strong starting point. On which note, I hope they make use of their links with Vialli and Klinsmann in the summer. They could for instance have a few interviews with Vialli, particularly ahead of the Italy V England match. I'd hope they'd interview Klinsmann and Gary Neville too, partly because of their roles with national teams but also because they have proven punditry experience. If you get 5-10 minutes with one of them about USA/England as well as some more general questions about how Germany will get on (in Klinsmann's case), previous World Cup memories, teams to look out for in the tournament, etc. then you're basically getting free punditry for a bit. Certainly if I were ITV or BBC I'd be looking to speak to Gary Neville as much as possible - indeed I wouldn't rule out a 1-on-1 interview between Phil Neville/Rio Ferdinand and Gary Neville for the BBC, much like the interviews between say Gary Neville & Giggs or Jamie Carragher and Brendan Rodgers that we've seen on Sky.
As for the commentators I don't expect Mark Bright to go with the BBC, and if he does he certainly won't have as prominent role as he did in 2010. I hope Mick McCarthy goes again; I think him and Jonathan Pearce had a good partnership in 2010. I'd like Kevin Kilbane to do co-commentary again too. Their commentators generally do pretty well. I'd prefer Steve Wilson to be first choice but there does at least seem to be some sort of even-ish split between the top three.
I take it back, if the BBC are doing off-tube then it's just as bad as ITV but I understand the time difference issue. If off-tubing happens in Russia then it will be worse IMO
As for ITV's comm/co-comm line up, I think everyone has said it on here, it's poor but of course we don't know the full line up yet! If I were them, I'd try for Andy Gray.
On the subject of 5 Live, Charles Sale reported this morning that Graham Taylor had been 'overlooked' as England's analyst for the summer. Danny Mills will be doing it instead. I don't know if this means Taylor's been dropped from England but will still be in Brazil, or if he's just not well enough to go to Brazil - I read the other week he'd had another fall. A shame if true. I think Taylor and Jimmy Armfield are two of the best radio pundits around. It would be nice if they could still contribute in some way - maybe on the morning highlights show if that's coming from the UK?
And someone mentioned Matt Smith earlier. I agree there will be quite a lot for him to do - I mean on days 2 and 3 for instance ITV have 2 games so he might well present one of those. I wouldn't be surprised if he fulfils the Jim Rosenthal role of presenting from the stadium for some games too. Arius did say some games (ITV4 I think) would be presented from London - I wonder who will do those?