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Merlin Series 4 - General Discussion Thread

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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 82
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    looking forward to tonights, lamia.
    should be intersting to see the knights turning against one another, without arthur there.
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    AndyAndy Posts: 1,618
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    claire2281claire2281 Posts: 17,283
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    Reading some of the questions for the Q&A, there's some really insightful and interesting ones. Hope they get asked rather than some of the more standard ones!

    (There's also a few daft ones - do they read fanfic and copy it?! They're normally not even really supposed to acknowledge the existence of it, let alone say they stole ideas from it! :D)
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    AndyAndy Posts: 1,618
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    Full Johnny Capps & Julian Murphy Q&A transcript:

    Q: Is there any more info on the Merlin movie?
    A: it's in early stages - we're discussing talent right now, e.g writers, directors

    Q: Will we ever see Merlin's mother again?
    A: There's every chance! Wait and see!

    Q: If you could have any actor star in Merlin, who would it be?
    A: Tom Hollander, Brian Blessed, Felicity Kendal. In terms of guest casting, it depends on the parts - there's lots of names in our heads! Judi Dench, Ian McKellen...

    Q: Will we see Morgause again?
    A: Who knows?? There's no such thing as real death in Merlin.

    Q: Will there be a sixth series of Merlin?
    A: We've always planned five series, but it depends on how popular the show is . There's every possibility it could continue...

    Q: Will Merlin reunite with Freya?
    A: She's important to the legend, so there's a good chance they will reunite, yes!

    Q: Will Uther return?
    A: We loved working with Tony Head, we've got plenty of ideas as to how Uther could return! But when, we're not sure...

    Q: Will we see either Arthur or Gwen confront Morgana this series?
    A: Yes, there's a very exciting confrontation coming up between Gwen and Morgana!

    Q: Any hope for a Merlin musical episode?
    A: No plans for a musical, though Angel Coulby (Gwen) does have a beautiful singing voice!

    Q: Will there be more scenes between Gwen & Elyan?
    A: There's a big Elyan story coming up - their sibling relationship is tested, but it's not quite how you might imagine it.

    Q: Will we get a glimpse of redemption for Morgana?
    A: The end of this series is very surprising for Morgana! Stay tuned...

    Q: Do you feel that Merlin has become a stronger show each series?
    A: Yes - fantasy shows often grow with confidence. The closer we get to the legend, the richer and more interesting it gets... The ambition each year is to keep pushing the envelope. We're always working to make the show better!
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    *Laura**Laura* Posts: 45,152
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    Thanks for posting the transcript Andy :)

    I tried to follow it on Twitter and got very confused. :o

    It will be interesting to see if they go for a film or another series. Mind you I don't think I could cope with six series of not knowing whether Arthur has an inkling to Merlin's powers. :cry:
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    AndyAndy Posts: 1,618
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    *Laura* wrote: »
    Thanks for posting the transcript Andy :)

    No worries at all. I'm actually very excited for the Morgana and Gwen confrontation. It has been a long time coming. I think the soapy side of me foresees a slap but that's probably off the cards. :p
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    *Laura**Laura* Posts: 45,152
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    No worries at all. I'm actually very excited for the Morgana and Gwen confrontation. It has been a long time coming. I think the soapy side of me foresees a slap but that's probably off the cards. :p

    I also like the hint that there may be some redemption for Morgana. :)

    If Guinevere and Arthur marry this series, maybe they'll invite her to the wedding. :D
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 31
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    Thanks so much Andy!

    You are the STAR ! :)
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    claire2281claire2281 Posts: 17,283
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    Glad to hear a Morgause return is on the cards.

    Really looking forward to a Gwen and Morgana confrontation. Those two were so close once.

    Having read the synopsis for the last two eps I'm now wondering if Morgana actually finds that she can't quite bring herself to really hurt Arthur and/or Gwen and she ends up saving them, leaving them all :O
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    lil_miss_blondelil_miss_blonde Posts: 9,090
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    claire2281 wrote: »
    Glad to hear a Morgause return is on the cards.

    Really looking forward to a Gwen and Morgana confrontation. Those two were so close once.

    Having read the synopsis for the last two eps I'm now wondering if Morgana actually finds that she can't quite bring herself to really hurt Arthur and/or Gwen and she ends up saving them, leaving them all :O

    Oh shes got alot more trouble to cause the pair before she even continplates being nice...
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    claire2281claire2281 Posts: 17,283
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    Oh shes got alot more trouble to cause the pair before she even continplates being nice...

    Oh I don't ever expect her to be quite nice :D

    But her continuing to be the villain with no character development or change of her role will be boring. The fact she goes dark and comes back is the interesting thing of her story and it'd be sad to see no development of that.
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    DavetheScotDavetheScot Posts: 16,623
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    Very interesting to read. As others have already said, thanks for posting, Andy.

    A catfight bewtween Morgana and Gwen could be interesting. After all those shirtless scenes with Arthur for the girls, it's time us guys got something similarly arousing ;)
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    lil_miss_blondelil_miss_blonde Posts: 9,090
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    claire2281 wrote: »
    Oh I don't ever expect her to be quite nice :D

    But her continuing to be the villain with no character development or change of her role will be boring. The fact she goes dark and comes back is the interesting thing of her story and it'd be sad to see no development of that.

    I hope she turns good in the end.. i much prefere the series 1 nice Morgana :D
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 82
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    cant wait for tonights, meant to be near the best that MERLIN has ever done!
    Tissues at the ready for the end, though;')
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    AndyAndy Posts: 1,618
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    The thread for tonight's episode: can be located here. :)
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 460
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    Could somebody do me a huge favour and explain the family tree of Arthur, Morgana, and Morgause? Because me and friend have been trying to get our heads around it since the arrival of Agravaine, and all we have managed to do is confuse the heck out of ourselves, because what we thought was correct doesn't seem to fit any more.

    How do Ygraine, Vivienne, Agravaine, and Tristan de Bois (The Black Knight from 1x09) fit into things? Because until Agravaine turned up, we were under the impression that Ygraine and Vivienne were sisters.
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    LowriLowri Posts: 3,094
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    kellan_x wrote: »
    Could somebody do me a huge favour and explain the family tree of Arthur, Morgana, and Morgause? Because me and friend have been trying to get our heads around it since the arrival of Agravaine, and all we have managed to do is confuse the heck out of ourselves, because what we thought was correct doesn't seem to fit any more.

    How do Ygraine, Vivienne, Agravaine, and Tristan de Bois (The Black Knight from 1x09) fit into things? Because until Agravaine turned up, we were under the impression that Ygraine and Vivienne were sisters.

    I can only give the relation from the series because despite trying to read the Arthurian legends, the book I chose was far too complicated!
    In the series, Morgana is Arthur's half sister. Her father is Uther and her Mother is Vivienne (the same as Morgause's). Uther looked after Morgana because he was asked to by her "father" before he died.
    I think Ygraine was Arthurs mother. Agravaine is Ygraine's, Tristan and Viviennes brother (Arthur and Morgana's uncle)
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    claire2281claire2281 Posts: 17,283
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    kellan_x wrote: »
    Could somebody do me a huge favour and explain the family tree of Arthur, Morgana, and Morgause? Because me and friend have been trying to get our heads around it since the arrival of Agravaine, and all we have managed to do is confuse the heck out of ourselves, because what we thought was correct doesn't seem to fit any more.

    How do Ygraine, Vivienne, Agravaine, and Tristan de Bois (The Black Knight from 1x09) fit into things? Because until Agravaine turned up, we were under the impression that Ygraine and Vivienne were sisters.

    Gorlois was married to Vivienne. Whilst he was away at war, Uther slept with Vivienne and only they knew about it. Morgana was born and everyone thought she was Gorlois's daughter.

    Uther and Igraine were married, Whether this was before or after his affair with Vivienne, it is unknown. They had Arthur through the use of magic (a spell Igraine never knew about). Igraine had two brothers Tristan and Agravaine. Tristan knew Uther had played a part in his sister's death and challenged Uther to a duel in which he killed him too.

    Arthur and Morgana are half siblings through Uther.

    Morgause's parentage is still unclear. When she first turned up, Gaius knew that she was half sister to Morgana so she could not have been daughter of Gorlois and Vivienne. The implication was that she was the daughter of Gorlois as she had a bracelet of his house, but this would mean that she and Morgana are not half sisters after all. They still call each other 'sister' though even after they're aware Morgana is really Uther's daughter. This must mean that she is the daughter of Vivienne and some other man.

    Both Morgause's father and the reason why Uther was relieved she was 'dead' as a baby long before he even started on the Purge are still a mystery.

    As far as we know, Morgause is in no way related to Arthur. Also there's been no implication that Igraine and Vivienne were related.
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    CadivaCadiva Posts: 18,412
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    kellan_x wrote: »
    Could somebody do me a huge favour and explain the family tree of Arthur, Morgana, and Morgause? Because me and friend have been trying to get our heads around it since the arrival of Agravaine, and all we have managed to do is confuse the heck out of ourselves, because what we thought was correct doesn't seem to fit any more.

    How do Ygraine, Vivienne, Agravaine, and Tristan de Bois (The Black Knight from 1x09) fit into things? Because until Agravaine turned up, we were under the impression that Ygraine and Vivienne were sisters.

    The relationships are pretty straight forward. Uther had Morgana with Vivienne, he had Arthur with Igraine. Vivienne was married to Gorlois and they are the parents of Morgause.
    Igraine is Arthur's mother, Uther's wife and sister to both Tristan (the long dead Black Knight) and to Agravaine. I don't think they've ever said that Vivienne and Igraine (in this version at least) are sisters.
    Lowri wrote: »
    I can only give the relation from the series because despite trying to read the Arthurian legends, the book I chose was far too complicated!

    In the most often used legend Vivienne (the lady of the lake has no children), Igraine (Arthur's mother but Gorlois' wife), Morgause (married to Lot of Orkney and the mother of Gaheris, Gareth, Gawaine and Agravaine) and Morgan Le Fey (married to Uriens and mother of Ywain) are all sisters. In these legends Arthur has Mordred with Morgause not with Morgan Le Fey. In most legends Arthur and Agravaine are cousins.

    In a few other versions Arthur and Morgan Le Fey are half brother and sister (usually where Morgause doesn't exist as a separate character) where Igraine is the mother of them both but Gorlois is the father of Morgan and Uther the father of Arthur. Agravaine is then Morgan's son with Lot and therefore is Arthur's nephew. In these versions Arthur and Morgan Le Fey are the parents of Mordred, usually through innocence/magical interference.
    In some legends, Vivienne is Lady of the Lake but also the mother (through magical means) of Lancelot du Lac, therefore making Arthur and Lancelot cousins as well.

    The legends are very complicated :)
    claire2281 wrote: »
    Morgause's parentage is still unclear. When she first turned up, Gaius knew that she was half sister to Morgana so she could not have been daughter of Gorlois and Vivienne.

    The implication was that she was the daughter of Gorlois as she had a bracelet of his house, but this would mean that she and Morgana are not half sisters after all.
    They still call each other 'sister' though even after they're aware Morgana is really Uther's daughter. This must mean that she is the daughter of Vivienne and some other man.

    Why couldn't she? As far as I can remember, Morgause is the half sister of Morgana through having a mutual mother in Vivienne and her father would therefore naturally be Gorlois.
    Or am I missing something where Vivienne isn't Gorlois' wife in this version?

    From memory, and without going and watching the whole thing again, in this particular version of Merlin, Vivienne and Igraine are not sisters.
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    claire2281claire2281 Posts: 17,283
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    Cadiva wrote: »
    Why couldn't she? As far as I can remember, Morgause is the half sister of Morgana through having a mutual mother in Vivienne and her father would therefore naturally be Gorlois.

    Because Gaius already knew in Sins of the Father that Morgana and Morgause were half sisters BEFORE he knew that Uther was really Morgana's father.

    At the time, Gaius believed that Morgana's parents were Gorlois and Vivienne so one of those two couldn't have been Morgause's parent for them to be half sisters. Most people assumed that they had different mothers but in order for them to be still related after the Uther reveal, they must share a mother AND Gorlois can't have been Morgause's father otherwise Gaius would have believed them sisters rather than half sisters.
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    CadivaCadiva Posts: 18,412
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    claire2281 wrote: »
    Because Gaius already knew in Sins of the Father that Morgana and Morgause were half sisters BEFORE he knew that Uther was really Morgana's father.

    At the time, Gaius believed that Morgana's parents were Gorlois and Vivienne so one of those two couldn't have been Morgause's parent for them to be half sisters. Most people assumed that they had different mothers but in order for them to be still related after the Uther reveal, they must share a mother AND Gorlois can't have been Morgause's father otherwise Gaius would have believed them sisters rather than half sisters.

    I must have missed that, will have to watch it again. I always assumed that Gaius was aware that Morgana was Uther's daughter and that part of the deal was that Morgause went to the Old Religion to be trained as a priestess to pay for the magic which created Arthur.
    That could totally just be me misinterpreting what was shown though, as I said I'm going on recollection rather than actually watching the earlier Merlin episodes again.
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    claire2281claire2281 Posts: 17,283
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    Cadiva wrote: »
    I always assumed that Gaius was aware that Morgana was Uther's daughter and that part of the deal was that Morgause went to the Old Religion to be trained as a priestess to pay for the magic which created Arthur.

    No, Gaius didn't know. Uther confessed it to him last series.

    The deal is a nice idea but it doesn't work because Morgause is older than both Morgana and Arthur and she was taken from Camelot very soon after she was born (by Gaius because Uther didn't want her to survive for some unknown reason).
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 460
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    Thanks guys. I can barely remember the mentions Vivienne got so I suppose it is understandable that I would confuse things with other legends.

    I did a little googling, and www.merlin.wikia.com does indeed have Ygraine and Vivienne down as sisters.
    And the Merlin pages on wikipedia say Agravaine is the brother of Ygraine, but not Tristan.

    I know its only wikipedia... but I guess the discrepancies there, and the fact that the responses to my question here all vary slightly suggests that the writers haven't been as clear about things as they perhaps should have been.
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    *Laura**Laura* Posts: 45,152
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    Cadiva wrote: »
    I must have missed that, will have to watch it again. I always assumed that Gaius was aware that Morgana was Uther's daughter and that part of the deal was that Morgause went to the Old Religion to be trained as a priestess to pay for the magic which created Arthur.
    That could totally just be me misinterpreting what was shown though, as I said I'm going on recollection rather than actually watching the earlier Merlin episodes again.

    Gaius only discovered Morgana was Uther's daughter in Crystal Cave Series 3 Ep 5. :)
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    CadivaCadiva Posts: 18,412
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    claire2281 wrote: »
    No, Gaius didn't know. Uther confessed it to him last series.

    The deal is a nice idea but it doesn't work because Morgause is older than both Morgana and Arthur and she was taken from Camelot very soon after she was born (by Gaius because Uther didn't want her to survive for some unknown reason).

    Aye I remembered the fact Gaius had taken her away to be trained as a priestess of the Old Religion but I guess I'd always just presumed that was part of the cover up of Uther's affair with Vivienne and the subsequent need for Nimue's magic to help Igraine conceive Arthur. Gaius helps Vivienne and Morgause escape from Camelot (we're told in the back story) so I've always taken it as read that he knew the truth).

    I'd always taken it that Uther knew that Morgause was a threat because she knew about Morgana being his daughter and not Gorlois' as in the "real" legends where Morgaine/Morgan Le Fay is feared/a threat because she knows it's Uther and not her father Gorlois who comes back from the battle and has sex with Igraine. My fault, have merged "real legend" with Merlin version!
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