Maybe I got a bit evangelical about 'no-one should eat meat'. I do, however, believe that everyone should know what their meat goes through before it dies to go onto their plate. If people are making that choice then they should be fully informed.
I am becoming a little less tolerant as I grow older and the constant barrage of pictures of suffering animals penned up and suffering actually makes that worse.
I don't think you did. People use the same argument towards vegetarians all the time. It is massively boring and annoying.
They just conveniently forget cats and other animals are obligate carnivores. They eat meat because they need to to survive. Humans aren't obligate carnivores. Humans eat meat for fun and pleasure. They just fail to care that there's a difference between a species eating meat to survive and one doing it because they feel like.
Humans don't need to eat meat to survive. They do so purely for pleasure. Which to me is the abhorrent part. A cat does need meat to survive. That's nature. Humans assume because they're more intelligent they can do as they like to every other species. A cat doesn't. A cat just does what is needed to survive.
I personally don't care what others eat. I don't preach to anyone or tell anyone what they should or shouldn't be eating because It's pointless and not my place to do so anyway. All I can do is not do so myself. Not knowingly products tested on animals or wear leather/fur etc.
But people will carry saying 'what about the carrots' and 'what do you feed your cats then ay?' All the whilst thinking they've got one over on you and are proving their point.
I don't think you did. People use the same argument towards vegetarians all the time. It is massively boring and annoying.
They just conveniently forget cats and other animals are obligate carnivores. They eat meat because they need to to survive. Humans aren't obligate carnivores. Humans eat meat for fun and pleasure. They just fail to care that there's a difference between a species eating meat to survive and one doing it because they feel like.
Humans don't need to eat meat to survive. They do so purely for pleasure. Which to me is the abhorrent part. A cat does need meat to survive. That's nature. Humans assume because they're more intelligent they can do as they like to every other species. A cat doesn't. A cat just does what is needed to survive.
I personally don't care what others eat. I don't preach to anyone or tell anyone what they should or shouldn't be eating because It's pointless and not my place to do so anyway. All I can do is not do so myself. Not knowingly products tested on animals or wear leather/fur etc.
But people will carry saying 'what about the carrots' and 'what do you feed your cats then ay?' All the whilst thinking they've got one over on you and are proving their point.
Thank you, Lyceum.
I should know better, though, than to air my views on DS. Having been a vegetarian for 30 years, I know what I am fighting and the opinions people have on it (and on vegans as well).
And, Electra, I don't think there has been any news on charging. I think he was released on bail.
So how much did people donate to that place before this happened? I bet nobody had heard about it before?
About £1.8m in 2012, of which £1.3m was spent. (After looking at their financial statement, I seem to have ecome a bit of an expert on the finances of dogs' homes!)
The £1.8m included nearly £1m from legacies, £320K from donations (and £160K from the council), but also £320K from trading.
They weren't really short of money anyway, at least not at the end of 2012.
About £1.8m in 2012, of which £1.3m was spent. (After looking at their financial statement, I seem to have ecome a bit of an expert on the finances of dogs' homes!)
The £1.8m included nearly £1m from legacies, £320K from donations (and £160K from the council), but also £320K from trading.
They weren't really short of money anyway, at least not at the end of 2012.
Nice to see that people are willing to give, money and other things to good causes, and willing to pay to keep these places doing a good job. No one is forcing people to give them money, people are doing it off their own back, nothing wrong in that. I give to The Guide Dogs for the Blind Association, so dogs helping man working together
Has there been any news on whether that lad's been charged?
The 15 year old lad got bailed today but he has to return to the police station on Monday. I dont know why really he should be charged as he must of done it he was seen at the dogs home when the fire was started and he was arrested soon after being seen
I don't think you did. People use the same argument towards vegetarians all the time. It is massively boring and annoying.
They just conveniently forget cats and other animals are obligate carnivores. They eat meat because they need to to survive. Humans aren't obligate carnivores. Humans eat meat for fun and pleasure. They just fail to care that there's a difference between a species eating meat to survive and one doing it because they feel like.
Humans don't need to eat meat to survive. They do so purely for pleasure. Which to me is the abhorrent part. A cat does need meat to survive. That's nature. Humans assume because they're more intelligent they can do as they like to every other species. A cat doesn't. A cat just does what is needed to survive.
I personally don't care what others eat. I don't preach to anyone or tell anyone what they should or shouldn't be eating because It's pointless and not my place to do so anyway. All I can do is not do so myself. Not knowingly products tested on animals or wear leather/fur etc.
But people will carry saying 'what about the carrots' and 'what do you feed your cats then ay?' All the whilst thinking they've got one over on you and are proving their point.
The 15 year old lad got bailed today but he has to return to the police station on Monday. I dont know why really he should be charged as he must of done it he was seen at the dogs home when the fire was started and he was arrested soon after being seen
The 15 year old lad got bailed today but he has to return to the police station on Monday. I dont know why really he should be charged as he must of done it he was seen at the dogs home when the fire was started and he was arrested soon after being seen
Sounds guilty to me, let's not even bother with a trial!
Good to see his photo is being plastered over social media, all those who hope he gets a kicking obviously too scared to do it themselves but hope someone will so it for them.
This article from the Mail on Sunday all but outs the suspect since it's easy to find the article on the original dog attack (from the Mirror and Manchester Evening News):
I couldn't bear to read about this until tonight. Even reading about it, I've been trying not to imagine it, if that makes sense - won't help the tragic victims if I have a breakdown!
But what is heartwarming is hearing about the local residents who responded so bravely to rescue and help what dogs they could, as well as all the money raised.
I remember that awful programme People Like Us, which made out people in Harpurhey to be all disgraceful - but nearby Harpurhey neighbours to the home braved the flames to try to rescue the dogs that died, and kicked down the cages to rescue lots of dogs, and lots of Harpurhey people cared for the dogs. That programme was so all nasty, I was sure it was just all biased and this proves it I think.
I couldn't bear to read about this until tonight. Even reading about it, I've been trying not to imagine it, if that makes sense - won't help the tragic victims if I have a breakdown!
But what is heartwarming is hearing about the local residents who responded so bravely to rescue and help what dogs they could, as well as all the money raised.
I remember that awful programme People Like Us, which made out people in Harpurhey to be all disgraceful - but nearby Harpurhey neighbours to the home braved the flames to try to rescue the dogs that died, and kicked down the cages to rescue lots of dogs, and lots of Harpurhey people cared for the dogs. That programme was so all nasty, I was sure it was just all biased and this proves it I think.
To be fair, whilst the programme was exaggerated, it wasn't by much in some cases. I know Harpurhey, and the Asda there is the worst supermarket I've ever been in. Even some of the staff swear (f*ck and b*stard are two of the expletives I've heard yelled in there). Not all the staff are like that, but still. Shopping there's always a nightmare for me.
The charity shops around there - well, whilst I don't expect top quality stuff in charity shops, and I'm certainly not a snob, the stock's dreadful. I'm talking sweat-stained armpits. There's some nice stuff in the BHF furniture shop though.
Anyway, like I said in an earlier post, it was brilliant to see the locals pull together on the night of the fire, just like it used to be when I grew up near the Home.
Seems that he was attacked by a Rodhesian Ridgeback earlier this year and required hospital treatment. Ok sorry this happened to him but this is not the way to deal with a now (possible) hatred of dogs.
Seems that he was attacked by a Rodhesian Ridgeback earlier this year and required hospital treatment. Ok sorry this happened to him but this is not the way to deal with a now (possible) hatred of dogs.
Yeah - I was attacked by a stray dog in the school playground when I was about 13 or 14, and the dog really badly bit my right calf. That's pretty much where my fear of strange dogs has come from, but I certainly never had the inclination to go and do what this lad did. I just made sure I avoided strange dogs.
From what I've read in the news, the police have also picked up another lad who was there, supposedly as a witness (sorry if it's already been mentioned).
The 15 year old lad got bailed today but he has to return to the police station on Monday. I dont know why really he should be charged as he must of done it he was seen at the dogs home when the fire was started and he was arrested soon after being seen
Even if you do not use products that are tested on animals.. All the ingredients were tested on animals.
I remember reading about it a while ago. Pretty shocking when people buy it, thinking that its not been tested on animals and probably pay a higher price.
Yes, the ingredients were at one point tested on animals that is true. I was brought up not using products that were tested on animals, my parents have never knowingly used those products but it is true that the ingredients many years ago would have been tested. However this is a long time ago, Im in my 40s now so the actual products themselves could be said to be cruelty free.
He should of been charged not bailed I cant believe the police let him go. Apprentely hes got to go the police station on Monday for some reason I hope they find more evidence to charge him on Monday those dogs need justice
Yes, the ingredients were at one point tested on animals that is true. I was brought up not using products that were tested on animals, my parents have never knowingly used those products but it is true that the ingredients many years ago would have been tested. However this is a long time ago, Im in my 40s now so the actual products themselves could be said to be cruelty free.
I still dont trust them, as there is always new better stuff coming out, and it never seems to take the "not tested on animals" manufacturers long to catch up.
I still dont trust them, as there is always new better stuff coming out, and it never seems to take the "not tested on animals" manufacturers long to catch up.
Thing is, it's pretty much impossible as a human being NOT to be responsible for some level of harm to animals or the environment. The best you can do is to try to minimise it, and help them wherever possible. It's always going to be a compromise; perfection's not a real thing.
It's like the eating meat thing- if people want to eat meat, go ahead. I get that argument. But the amount of meat that gets thrown away every year is PHENOMENAL. Sure, kill animals for food if you feel you must. But don't kill them just so the supermarket shelves are always full. There's no moral justification for that at all. It's not food unless someone eats it.
A only sane and compassionate world would be one without domesticated dogs. Such a world would be populated by adult human beings not the current world which is full of adult children.
Well, educating people about spaying and neutering, so that we don't have 'unwanted' puppies. The same with cats. Also, people should be made clearly aware of the costs and the time and caring involved in having a pet. Then maybe they would keep them and not just throw them out when they get bored of their new 'toy'.
But it will go on, because humans throw out unwanted animals as if they were trash. Sentient animals, who only wanted to be loved and wanted.
To be fair I think some progress has been made along those lines. Having non-neutered pets is very much frowned upon these days, plus if your dog/cat has been microchipped, it becomes a tad more difficult to just tie the poor animal to a tree in the woods/throw it out of the car when you're fed up with it.
A lot more could be done obviously. Education and legislation - although the latter remains very hard to enforce. People usually get no more than a slap on the wrist in the courts, and that's just the UK. There are countless countries where the law simply does not give a shit about animal welfare.
But yeah, getting a puppy or kitten for your 5 year old kid's birthday just because it's "ever so cute" does sadly still seem to be perfectly acceptable to some people.
And then they get divorced or Alfie becomes a bit too expensive as a grown dog and hey ho off he goes to the dog's rescue home. Sheer human stupidity/selfishness, not sure how you can tackle that tbh.
But yeah, getting a puppy or kitten for your 5 year old kid's birthday just because it's "ever so cute" does sadly still seem to be perfectly acceptable to some people.
And then they get divorced or Alfie becomes a bit too expensive as a grown dog and hey ho off he goes to the dog's rescue home. Sheer human stupidity/selfishness, not sure how you can tackle that tbh.
Trudat. I'm at very real risk of losing my flat very soon, and given how difficult it is finding somewhere when you have a dog, I'd rather live under a bridge than get rid of her. A pet is a commitment- you have to make that commitment and stick to it. You can't just go "oh yeah, that'd be nice... nah, can't be arsed anymore... off to the pound with you".
Trudat. I'm at very real risk of losing my flat very soon, and given how difficult it is finding somewhere when you have a dog, I'd rather live under a bridge than get rid of her. A pet is a commitment- you have to make that commitment and stick to it. You can't just go "oh yeah, that'd be nice... nah, can't be arsed anymore... off to the pound with you".
My daughter had a bit of a hard time finding somewhere to rent with her dog.. She did him a portfolio type thing, with photos, what his behaviour was like, record of grooming,offers to meet him at his present home to show there was no damage to house or garden etc,
Landlords tend to put "no animals" as a matter of course but some will welcome them as long as you can show they are not destructive and unwashed, smelly etc.
Comments
I don't think you did. People use the same argument towards vegetarians all the time. It is massively boring and annoying.
They just conveniently forget cats and other animals are obligate carnivores. They eat meat because they need to to survive. Humans aren't obligate carnivores. Humans eat meat for fun and pleasure. They just fail to care that there's a difference between a species eating meat to survive and one doing it because they feel like.
Humans don't need to eat meat to survive. They do so purely for pleasure. Which to me is the abhorrent part. A cat does need meat to survive. That's nature. Humans assume because they're more intelligent they can do as they like to every other species. A cat doesn't. A cat just does what is needed to survive.
I personally don't care what others eat. I don't preach to anyone or tell anyone what they should or shouldn't be eating because It's pointless and not my place to do so anyway. All I can do is not do so myself. Not knowingly products tested on animals or wear leather/fur etc.
But people will carry saying 'what about the carrots' and 'what do you feed your cats then ay?' All the whilst thinking they've got one over on you and are proving their point.
Thank you, Lyceum.
I should know better, though, than to air my views on DS. Having been a vegetarian for 30 years, I know what I am fighting and the opinions people have on it (and on vegans as well).
And, Electra, I don't think there has been any news on charging. I think he was released on bail.
The £1.8m included nearly £1m from legacies, £320K from donations (and £160K from the council), but also £320K from trading.
They weren't really short of money anyway, at least not at the end of 2012.
Nice to see that people are willing to give, money and other things to good causes, and willing to pay to keep these places doing a good job. No one is forcing people to give them money, people are doing it off their own back, nothing wrong in that. I give to The Guide Dogs for the Blind Association, so dogs helping man working together
The 15 year old lad got bailed today but he has to return to the police station on Monday. I dont know why really he should be charged as he must of done it he was seen at the dogs home when the fire was started and he was arrested soon after being seen
The first half of your post says different.
I was responding to someone's post. Someone who is also a vegetarian. Giving an option.
At no point did I say I tell that opinion to meat eaters. At no point did I saw I go on at people who eat meat.
If you're a meat eater and happen to read it. That's because it's written on a forum and they're public. I can't help that.
You'd never see me repeating it to any meat eaters in day to day life.
I think it was a clever way of preaching. Anyway, that's me done.
Then you think wrong.
Bailed? Isn't that a bit risky for him?
Sounds guilty to me, let's not even bother with a trial!
Good to see his photo is being plastered over social media, all those who hope he gets a kicking obviously too scared to do it themselves but hope someone will so it for them.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2754912/Arson-suspect-arrested-fire-dogs-home-attacked-Rhodesian-ridgeback-Bailed-boy-15-needed-treatment-dog-bite-earlier-year.html
But what is heartwarming is hearing about the local residents who responded so bravely to rescue and help what dogs they could, as well as all the money raised.
I remember that awful programme People Like Us, which made out people in Harpurhey to be all disgraceful - but nearby Harpurhey neighbours to the home braved the flames to try to rescue the dogs that died, and kicked down the cages to rescue lots of dogs, and lots of Harpurhey people cared for the dogs. That programme was so all nasty, I was sure it was just all biased and this proves it I think.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2282189/BBC-People-Like-Us-faked-make-appear-drunk-fat-lazy-Jeremy-Kyle-style-laugh-chavs-TV.html
To be fair, whilst the programme was exaggerated, it wasn't by much in some cases. I know Harpurhey, and the Asda there is the worst supermarket I've ever been in. Even some of the staff swear (f*ck and b*stard are two of the expletives I've heard yelled in there). Not all the staff are like that, but still. Shopping there's always a nightmare for me.
The charity shops around there - well, whilst I don't expect top quality stuff in charity shops, and I'm certainly not a snob, the stock's dreadful. I'm talking sweat-stained armpits. There's some nice stuff in the BHF furniture shop though.
Anyway, like I said in an earlier post, it was brilliant to see the locals pull together on the night of the fire, just like it used to be when I grew up near the Home.
Yeah - I was attacked by a stray dog in the school playground when I was about 13 or 14, and the dog really badly bit my right calf. That's pretty much where my fear of strange dogs has come from, but I certainly never had the inclination to go and do what this lad did. I just made sure I avoided strange dogs.
From what I've read in the news, the police have also picked up another lad who was there, supposedly as a witness (sorry if it's already been mentioned).
What a simplistic way of looking at it.
Yes, the ingredients were at one point tested on animals that is true. I was brought up not using products that were tested on animals, my parents have never knowingly used those products but it is true that the ingredients many years ago would have been tested. However this is a long time ago, Im in my 40s now so the actual products themselves could be said to be cruelty free.
He should of been charged not bailed I cant believe the police let him go. Apprentely hes got to go the police station on Monday for some reason I hope they find more evidence to charge him on Monday those dogs need justice
I still dont trust them, as there is always new better stuff coming out, and it never seems to take the "not tested on animals" manufacturers long to catch up.
Thing is, it's pretty much impossible as a human being NOT to be responsible for some level of harm to animals or the environment. The best you can do is to try to minimise it, and help them wherever possible. It's always going to be a compromise; perfection's not a real thing.
It's like the eating meat thing- if people want to eat meat, go ahead. I get that argument. But the amount of meat that gets thrown away every year is PHENOMENAL. Sure, kill animals for food if you feel you must. But don't kill them just so the supermarket shelves are always full. There's no moral justification for that at all. It's not food unless someone eats it.
To be fair I think some progress has been made along those lines. Having non-neutered pets is very much frowned upon these days, plus if your dog/cat has been microchipped, it becomes a tad more difficult to just tie the poor animal to a tree in the woods/throw it out of the car when you're fed up with it.
A lot more could be done obviously. Education and legislation - although the latter remains very hard to enforce. People usually get no more than a slap on the wrist in the courts, and that's just the UK. There are countless countries where the law simply does not give a shit about animal welfare.
But yeah, getting a puppy or kitten for your 5 year old kid's birthday just because it's "ever so cute" does sadly still seem to be perfectly acceptable to some people.
And then they get divorced or Alfie becomes a bit too expensive as a grown dog and hey ho off he goes to the dog's rescue home. Sheer human stupidity/selfishness, not sure how you can tackle that tbh.
Trudat. I'm at very real risk of losing my flat very soon, and given how difficult it is finding somewhere when you have a dog, I'd rather live under a bridge than get rid of her. A pet is a commitment- you have to make that commitment and stick to it. You can't just go "oh yeah, that'd be nice... nah, can't be arsed anymore... off to the pound with you".
My daughter had a bit of a hard time finding somewhere to rent with her dog.. She did him a portfolio type thing, with photos, what his behaviour was like, record of grooming,offers to meet him at his present home to show there was no damage to house or garden etc,
Landlords tend to put "no animals" as a matter of course but some will welcome them as long as you can show they are not destructive and unwashed, smelly etc.
Worth a go?