Was this a "filler" episode? I am not getting the love for it that I see here. Unusually for me I don't think I could sit through it again! The end dragged on and on while they played their emotional music so much that I just wanted it done so I could watch the "next week" trailer. There was no re-watchable value to it.
The Academy was first mentioned, I think, way back in Jon Pertwee's era when the Master reminded him they were at the Academy together!
Nice Troughton reference as well with the Doctor sitting on top of the Tardis.
Had a quick look at The Mind Robbers where you think you remember Troughton on a Tardis but I couldn't see it! There is a scene where Zoe and Jamie are clinging to a disembodied Tardis Console outside of Time and Space and another where The Doctor tells Zoe and Jamie not to look behind them as imaginary full size toy soldiers are about to attack them. Shame as I like the idea of him sitting on a Tardis!
The Earliest Human Time Travel we know of in the classic series was developed in the 51st Century (Talons of Weng-Chiang). This was the first mention of the Time Agency.
Some Humans did travel from the 22nd Century to the 20th but this was done using stolen Dalek tech (Day of the Daleks).
There was some Time Travel experiments being carried out by Humans in The Two Doctors but I don't think we were ever given a date for these.
However as seen in The Two Doctors the Time Lords tended to put a stop to any time Travel that they did not approve of.
So it could be that in the pre Time War Universe where there were still lots of Time Lords around Humans were not allowed to develop Time travel until the 51st Century. Now with no Time Lords (apart from one) being around Time Travel may have been developed a lot earlier in Human History.
Of course in both cases of 22nd Century Time travel we have seen (Hide and Listen) the Time traveler was unable to get home (without the Doctors help) so whatever method they are using may well turn out to be a dead end and two way Time Travel may not be developed till the 51st Century.
Of course, we're just assuming that the boy in the barn was The Doctor. It could easily have been The Master...
Lots of people seem to be suggesting this. But there's absolutely nothing in the story to imply this at all. And we did see John Hurt returning to the barn - so surely the implication is that this was indeed the Doctor.
Complete and utter genius. Call me fan boy. I am now fan boy! That sent me giddy. 10/10. Don't care. Total brilliance from start to finish. All time classic. Yeah. I said it.
Really?
I woke my self up snorting when the missus elbowed me when the show finished, was not riveted to the screen.
There was some Time Travel experiments being carried out by Humans in The Two Doctors but I don't think we were ever given a date for these.
However as seen in The Two Doctors the Time Lords tended to put a stop to any time Travel that they did not approve of.
RE "The Two Doctors": I don't think Dastari and the other folk in the Third Zone were meant to be humans-they were just human-looking aliens, like the Trions or the
Thals.
...we did see John Hurt returning to the barn - so surely the implication is that this was indeed the Doctor.
Hardly implied - pretty much in capital letters. People really do try to read too much into scenes or try to get what they want out of a scene when it is quite obvious it was the Dr going back to the barn because that is where he had been in the previous scene.
RE "The Two Doctors": I don't think Dastari and the other folk in the Third Zone were meant to be humans-they were just human-looking aliens, like the Trions or the
Thals.
Yeah you're right. For some reason I thought they ended up travelling back in time to 1980's Spain which is why I thought they were were future humans but looking it up the space scenes are meant to take place in the same time period as the Earth scenes so Dastari can't be human.
Lots of people seem to be suggesting this. But there's absolutely nothing in the story to imply this at all. And we did see John Hurt returning to the barn - so surely the implication is that this was indeed the Doctor.
We were also told - quite specifically - that other children lived there (presumably a farm house near the barn) so it would be perfectly reasonable for the Doctor to "return to the barn" without him ever being the kid that Clara was talking to.
Also, when we saw the War Doctor, that may simply have been Clara's "memory" and not anyone saying "this is you" to that kid. And how would Clara even know it was THAT barn? (we saw more of THAT barn than she ever did and I'm betting that no-one seeing Listen immediately though "It's the same barn as...")?
Plus, there's the element of the adults there saying that the kid was not really up to becoming a Timelord - and we know that the Master was driven insane as a result of joining the academy so maybe Clara shaped HIS life in the same way she did with the Doctor when she was dotted throughout his timestream - maybe he'll remember that and blame the silly woman who talked him into making the biggest mistake of his life.
And as I've asked elsewhere - if that night in that barn was THAT critical to that child becoming "The Doctor" - why wasn't the GI and a Clara-clone already taking care of it? (The "timey wimey" explanation suggested elsewhere doesn't work cos that night in the barn must have part of SOMEONE's timestream - just, apparently, not the Doctor's)
Not saying it's definitely NOT the Doctor - just saying that it's equally not definite that it is.
Couple that with a conveniently placed set-up with a time-traveller and the childrens' home that made it seem like two halves of the same story and it has the hallmarks of a Moffat "tricked you" twist in the making.
Was this a "filler" episode? I am not getting the love for it that I see here. Unusually for me I don't think I could sit through it again! The end dragged on and on while they played their emotional music so much that I just wanted it done so I could watch the "next week" trailer. There was no re-watchable value to it.
I thought I was alone with a similar opinion. It ended up being a decent episode, but I don't get the hysteria about it.
I have to have a bit of light and dark. Or at least a bit of monster action.
To clarify in terms of films, I preferred Cloverfield over Blair Witch or Paranormal Activity.
Everyone here talks pretty unambiguously about the child being the Doctor, including the director, who singles it out as his personal highlight as it gave him the chance to do something no previous director had done: the young Doctor.
Sure, it could all be elaborate misdirection... but face it, it isn't. Why mess up the theme of the episode just to set up some tedious twist.
Comments
The Doctor wanted a coffee.
Not that I recall but the notion that a great hero does not need a weapon was touched upon.
Clara : "A Soldier so brave he doesn't need a gun, he can keep the whole world safe"
So the notion of hero / no weapon was planted in his subconscious.
Had a quick look at The Mind Robbers where you think you remember Troughton on a Tardis but I couldn't see it! There is a scene where Zoe and Jamie are clinging to a disembodied Tardis Console outside of Time and Space and another where The Doctor tells Zoe and Jamie not to look behind them as imaginary full size toy soldiers are about to attack them. Shame as I like the idea of him sitting on a Tardis!
My wife's a teacher and I can tell you from experience the most unbelievable bit of that story was two teachers getting together and not talking shop!
Lots of people seem to be suggesting this. But there's absolutely nothing in the story to imply this at all. And we did see John Hurt returning to the barn - so surely the implication is that this was indeed the Doctor.
Really?
I woke my self up snorting when the missus elbowed me when the show finished, was not riveted to the screen.
on rewatching I noticed Clara piloted the tardis - maybe Gallifrey is locked to the doctor only? who knows it's Moffat?
RE "The Two Doctors": I don't think Dastari and the other folk in the Third Zone were meant to be humans-they were just human-looking aliens, like the Trions or the
Thals.
Hardly implied - pretty much in capital letters. People really do try to read too much into scenes or try to get what they want out of a scene when it is quite obvious it was the Dr going back to the barn because that is where he had been in the previous scene.
Yeah you're right. For some reason I thought they ended up travelling back in time to 1980's Spain which is why I thought they were were future humans but looking it up the space scenes are meant to take place in the same time period as the Earth scenes so Dastari can't be human.
We were also told - quite specifically - that other children lived there (presumably a farm house near the barn) so it would be perfectly reasonable for the Doctor to "return to the barn" without him ever being the kid that Clara was talking to.
Also, when we saw the War Doctor, that may simply have been Clara's "memory" and not anyone saying "this is you" to that kid. And how would Clara even know it was THAT barn? (we saw more of THAT barn than she ever did and I'm betting that no-one seeing Listen immediately though "It's the same barn as...")?
Plus, there's the element of the adults there saying that the kid was not really up to becoming a Timelord - and we know that the Master was driven insane as a result of joining the academy so maybe Clara shaped HIS life in the same way she did with the Doctor when she was dotted throughout his timestream - maybe he'll remember that and blame the silly woman who talked him into making the biggest mistake of his life.
And as I've asked elsewhere - if that night in that barn was THAT critical to that child becoming "The Doctor" - why wasn't the GI and a Clara-clone already taking care of it? (The "timey wimey" explanation suggested elsewhere doesn't work cos that night in the barn must have part of SOMEONE's timestream - just, apparently, not the Doctor's)
Not saying it's definitely NOT the Doctor - just saying that it's equally not definite that it is.
Couple that with a conveniently placed set-up with a time-traveller and the childrens' home that made it seem like two halves of the same story and it has the hallmarks of a Moffat "tricked you" twist in the making.
I thought I was alone with a similar opinion. It ended up being a decent episode, but I don't get the hysteria about it.
I have to have a bit of light and dark. Or at least a bit of monster action.
To clarify in terms of films, I preferred Cloverfield over Blair Witch or Paranormal Activity.
Indeed.
Everyone here talks pretty unambiguously about the child being the Doctor, including the director, who singles it out as his personal highlight as it gave him the chance to do something no previous director had done: the young Doctor.
Sure, it could all be elaborate misdirection... but face it, it isn't. Why mess up the theme of the episode just to set up some tedious twist.