A frog to dissect, yes. That is not uncommon. But he gave him one to kill and dissect. Even if it was common to do - I've never heard of a kindergarten class doing that here. So whatever, even if it's not unusual for a grandparent to have a 5 year old murder and then dismember a creature, I think it's pretty sad that a man who grew up to be a healer wants to name his child after the man who had him do this.
Most five-year-olds, if given a frog as a gift, even if told that it was to "kill and dissect", would make a pet of the frog, even if temporarily (in most families this means 'til Mom finds it and orders the kid to set it free). This tells me Grandfather Henry had to supervise the killing and dissection.:eek: The dissection of an already deceased frog doesn't bother me so much, but little Martin having to kill it does.
I think Martin may have fond memories of this grandfather because in this case, at this birthday, he treated five-year-old Martin with a kind of respect for his intelligence. What five-year-old would be taught any kind of dissection? Only one viewed as extremely intelligent (and one expected to grow up to become a physician).
Is this the same grandfather who wouldn't allow seven-year-old Martin to repair the watch he broke and who wouldn't allow Ruth to call him "Daddy"? It's got to be. Henry was a "respected physician" and the Ellinghams are a family of doctors. Has to be the father of Christopher, Joan, and Ruth.
It's all just more creepiness surrounding the Ellingham family and how Martin was raised. In some ways, it seems a wonder that he grew up to be a brilliant over-achiever as opposed to a psychotic wacko. Could be that his intelligence and inner strength kept him on the right path.
DM's grandfather gave him a frog to KILL and dissect for his 5th birthday. The man had him kill another creature when he was 5 years old, and he wants to name his child after him? DM talks about him like he's some great guy.
I always thought that was odd that DM doesn't see the cruelty of his grandfather making him do that. Gee whiz.
Louisa was lucky that her grandfather was a postman, actually.
Twisted, dark, humor in that scene. But it's still funny and sad at the same time. That's why I love this show. You can laugh at the characters and pity them at the same time.
I think it is easy to make mistaken analyses about other people, and their interactions with their own family members.
I do not see his grandfather as being cruel at all. I think DM was immediately fascinated by medicine, knew he wanted to be a doctor as well, was exceptionally intelligent from the get go, and his grandfather helped him along in the ways he knew best.
I mean, I was in third grade when our teacher killed a frog (outside away from the class) and dissected it to show how electricity moved the muscles even after it was dead. That could certainly be considered cruel, today, but as students then, we all found it massively educational and instructive.
DM knows his parents are horrendous people. If he does not have the same emotionally and intellectual feeling towards his grandfather perhaps we should note that. Perhaps his grandfather, like his AJ, actually was a decent person in his family to him. Someone may be a bad father and a loving grandfather.
I just think it can be problematic if we see things from our own POV and insist it is how DM must see it as well.
Oh how sweet I'm loving all these little snapshots of filming & people visiting....getting very jealous I'm looking forward to the next few months when we should get loads of pics and tidbits.
As for LG's dress in this lovely photo...:eek:.well, what can I say? I think they may be taking the whole floral thing a bit too far? She never wore anything like that in S1-3. Don't know about you guys, but I don't like it :eek::(
I think it is easy to make mistaken analyses about other people, and their interactions with their own family members.
I do not see his grandfather as being cruel at all. I think DM was immediately fascinated by medicine, knew he wanted to be a doctor as well, was exceptionally intelligent from the get go, and his grandfather helped him along in the ways he knew best.
I mean, I was in third grade when our teacher killed a frog (outside away from the class) and dissected it to show how electricity moved the muscles even after it was dead. That could certainly be considered cruel, today, but as students then, we all found it massively educational and instructive.
DM knows his parents are horrendous people. If he does not have the same emotionally and intellectual feeling towards his grandfather perhaps we should note that. Perhaps his grandfather, like his AJ, actually was a decent person in his family to him. Someone may be a bad father and a loving grandfather.
I just think it can be problematic if we see things from our own POV and insist it is how DM must see it as well.
It's not a serious analysis. It's just my comments on what I noticed about the show. My reaction was I felt sorry for him as I watched that episode. None of us really knows what the writer was trying to say. This is just my interpretation of the scene. According to people on this forum I am obviously dead wrong to think that it's not appropriate for an older relative teach him how to kill an animal. I guess you all have a different value system, but it doesn't make my opinion wrong and your's right. We're all just talking here.
I zoomed in. There is a wedding ring on the finger.
OH, THANK GOODNESS. I can't figure out how to zoom in on a twitter photo, but I do see a ring on her finger, and it's on the correct hand. Whew!
Now, about the pattern of that dress, hm, interesting. I wish we could see the entire dress. If we allow our minds to go there, it almost looks as if there's room in there for the beginning of a second little Ellingham.
Well, the manny and the actor's face just made this new series a whole new ballgame for me!! My imagination is running wild. :cool:
He's easy on the eyes, isn't he?
And since I'm apparently in a wildly speculative mood today (see my previous post about LG's dress), does anyone else wonder if maybe this "manny" could be LG's long lost brother? Going back in my hidey hole now.
OH, THANK GOODNESS. I can't figure out how to zoom in on a twitter photo, but I do see a ring on her finger, and it's on the correct hand. Whew!
Now, about the pattern of that dress, hm, interesting. I wish we could see the entire dress. If we allow our minds to go there, it almost looks as if there's room in there for the beginning of a second little Ellingham.
You know, that's funny; the first thing I thought when I saw it was 'that's weird, she looks pregnant'. :eek: Intriguing...and if we're right....dang, they didn't let any grass grow, did they?!
Hey, PoorRichard and Mazzieblue, our correspondents in Port Isaac, how does the above fit with this earlier post from April 18?
I just wondered, PoorRichard, if someone told you there's a new director this season, or if someone based it on the particular episode or scenes you saw, which were being directed by someone else. If Ben Bolt is no longer involved, what was he doing at the Platt on April 18?
Maybe this is simply wishful thinking on my part, but I know Ben Bolt hasn't directed every episode in the past, and he hasn't directed every scene of every episode, so I wonder if the same isn't happening this time around.
I saw this long haired guy directing. I didn't think it looked like Ben Bolt (even if he had grown his hair) so I asked the girl who shooed me off the hill "is that Ben Bolt"? She said "no." I said "Is he not with the series this season?" She said "there's another director." Now take that as you will: it could be that there's another director for this episode only, or for this day of filming only (maybe Ben Bolt had a temporary case of the lurgy), as it was not a direct answer to my question, but I understood her to mean that the season had another director. Maybe on April 18th Ben Bolt was giving some directorial orientation to the new guy???
You know, that's funny; the first thing I thought when I saw it was 'that's weird, she looks pregnant'. :eek: Intriguing...and if we're right....dang, they didn't let any grass grow, did they?!
Thank you, largeincharge. I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw that. It's probably just a fluke, just the way the dress is hanging or the way it falls under that jacket, but still, my eyes got wide!
I saw this long haired guy directing. I didn't think it looked like Ben Bolt (even if he had grown his hair) so I asked the girl who shooed me off the hill "is that Ben Bolt"? She said "no." I said "Is he not with the series this season?" She said "there's another director." Now take that as you will: it could be that there's another director for this episode only, or for this day of filming only (maybe Ben Bolt had a temporary case of the lurgy), as it was not a direct answer to my question, but I understood her to mean that the season had another director. Maybe on April 18th Ben Bolt was giving some directorial orientation to the new guy???
Thanks for the clarification, PoorRichard. You could be right. Maybe BB was only there to hand over the keys to the kingdom, so to speak. Or maybe he directed some of the first things filmed and then handed over the power to someone else. It will be interesting to see how this works out. I still hope Ben Bolt remains involved.
OH, THANK GOODNESS. I can't figure out how to zoom in on a twitter photo, but I do see a ring on her finger, and it's on the correct hand. Whew!
Now, about the pattern of that dress, hm, interesting. I wish we could see the entire dress. If we allow our minds to go there, it almost looks as if there's room in there for the beginning of a second little Ellingham.
Thank you, largeincharge. I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw that. It's probably just a fluke, just the way the dress is hanging or the way it falls under that jacket, but still, my eyes got wide!
I love this episode and have watched is more than any other DM episode. It is loaded with symbolism.
It's going to take a nuclear blast to get him to emotionally respond to her priorities. He didn't even think to ask what the cards were for. It's as though what she is doing is invisible, not just unimportant. In my house we don't just move each other's projects or work without asking them. It may seem unimportant to another person, but it's not for them to decide. It's more normal to ask rather than just moving someone's work.
As a boy, his projects were less important than the convenience of his parents. Children need validation that they are valued - and he didn't receive one iota of that. He had worked hard on that butterfly project - catching it, doing the jar and the leaves, looking up the species, only to be completely shot down by his Dad just for not knocking on the door. Did you notice that Morwenna walks into his office without knocking? He hollers "Knock!" and she just blows him off She says "Yeah, yeah next time" or something like that. He lets it go, and that is better than his father.
But he can't relate to the parallel between his butterfly project and Louisa's timetable work. He brushes it off and completely devalues her work.
Once he can understand why she is upset, I think he will be able to change. At the same time, she should work towards not taking it personally when he does stuff like that.
In every series he's devalued her work as a teacher. I hope they go somewhere towards resolving that issue at some stage.
I agree that LG has to change too if they want to live together harmoniously.
And since I'm apparently in a wildly speculative mood today (see my previous post about LG's dress), does anyone else wonder if maybe this "manny" could be LG's long lost brother? Going back in my hidey hole now.
Gosh I hope it isn't LGs brother! I have high hopes that this guy is going to make DM jealous.
Thanks for the clarification, PoorRichard. You could be right. Maybe BB was only there to hand over the keys to the kingdom, so to speak. Or maybe he directed some of the first things filmed and then handed over the power to someone else. It will be interesting to see how this works out. I still hope Ben Bolt remains involved.
Ben Bolt has written 2 episodes this series so he could have been there as a writer?
So very nice of CC to give Vicky a hug as well as being really interested and attentive.
She said on Twitter that she looked through the book and wanted Vicky to sign it for her but Vickys hands were shaking very badly and CC said to her relax try again and huggedherq.uite a few times. Nice to know she's appreciating her young fans
Now I remember someone saying that there is a dispute between Bert and Louisa, so it seems he has gone to her office to talk about it. Now the thing I am interested in is that Louisa seems to have three framed photos on her desk. What do you think is in them? I'm going for James, and maybe a picture of her and Martin at the wedding, and maybe another shot of James. What do you guys think?
DM's grandfather gave him a frog to KILL and dissect for his 5th birthday. The man had him kill another creature when he was 5 years old, and he wants to name his child after him? DM talks about him like he's some great guy.
First, I don't think he realised aged 5 that it is not completely correct to dissect a frog.
Second, at least he did something with Martin that stimulated his mind. I bet little Marty found it quite exciting and it might have been a nice memory.
Third, in Medical School he has probably seen worse.
Comments
Most five-year-olds, if given a frog as a gift, even if told that it was to "kill and dissect", would make a pet of the frog, even if temporarily (in most families this means 'til Mom finds it and orders the kid to set it free). This tells me Grandfather Henry had to supervise the killing and dissection.:eek: The dissection of an already deceased frog doesn't bother me so much, but little Martin having to kill it does.
I think Martin may have fond memories of this grandfather because in this case, at this birthday, he treated five-year-old Martin with a kind of respect for his intelligence. What five-year-old would be taught any kind of dissection? Only one viewed as extremely intelligent (and one expected to grow up to become a physician).
Is this the same grandfather who wouldn't allow seven-year-old Martin to repair the watch he broke and who wouldn't allow Ruth to call him "Daddy"? It's got to be. Henry was a "respected physician" and the Ellinghams are a family of doctors. Has to be the father of Christopher, Joan, and Ruth.
It's all just more creepiness surrounding the Ellingham family and how Martin was raised. In some ways, it seems a wonder that he grew up to be a brilliant over-achiever as opposed to a psychotic wacko. Could be that his intelligence and inner strength kept him on the right path.
I think it is easy to make mistaken analyses about other people, and their interactions with their own family members.
I do not see his grandfather as being cruel at all. I think DM was immediately fascinated by medicine, knew he wanted to be a doctor as well, was exceptionally intelligent from the get go, and his grandfather helped him along in the ways he knew best.
I mean, I was in third grade when our teacher killed a frog (outside away from the class) and dissected it to show how electricity moved the muscles even after it was dead. That could certainly be considered cruel, today, but as students then, we all found it massively educational and instructive.
DM knows his parents are horrendous people. If he does not have the same emotionally and intellectual feeling towards his grandfather perhaps we should note that. Perhaps his grandfather, like his AJ, actually was a decent person in his family to him. Someone may be a bad father and a loving grandfather.
I just think it can be problematic if we see things from our own POV and insist it is how DM must see it as well.
Are we seeing LG's dress under the coat? If so, OMG! :eek:
Yes! That's what I looked for too and it seems to be on the correct finger!
Oh how sweet
As for LG's dress in this lovely photo...:eek:.well, what can I say? I think they may be taking the whole floral thing a bit too far? She never wore anything like that in S1-3. Don't know about you guys, but I don't like it :eek::(
It's not a serious analysis. It's just my comments on what I noticed about the show. My reaction was I felt sorry for him as I watched that episode. None of us really knows what the writer was trying to say. This is just my interpretation of the scene. According to people on this forum I am obviously dead wrong to think that it's not appropriate for an older relative teach him how to kill an animal. I guess you all have a different value system, but it doesn't make my opinion wrong and your's right. We're all just talking here.
OH, THANK GOODNESS. I can't figure out how to zoom in on a twitter photo, but I do see a ring on her finger, and it's on the correct hand. Whew!
Now, about the pattern of that dress, hm, interesting. I wish we could see the entire dress. If we allow our minds to go there, it almost looks as if there's room in there for the beginning of a second little Ellingham.
He's easy on the eyes, isn't he?
And since I'm apparently in a wildly speculative mood today (see my previous post about LG's dress), does anyone else wonder if maybe this "manny" could be LG's long lost brother? Going back in my hidey hole now.
You know, that's funny; the first thing I thought when I saw it was 'that's weird, she looks pregnant'. :eek: Intriguing...and if we're right....dang, they didn't let any grass grow, did they?!
I saw this long haired guy directing. I didn't think it looked like Ben Bolt (even if he had grown his hair) so I asked the girl who shooed me off the hill "is that Ben Bolt"? She said "no." I said "Is he not with the series this season?" She said "there's another director." Now take that as you will: it could be that there's another director for this episode only, or for this day of filming only (maybe Ben Bolt had a temporary case of the lurgy), as it was not a direct answer to my question, but I understood her to mean that the season had another director. Maybe on April 18th Ben Bolt was giving some directorial orientation to the new guy???
Thank you, largeincharge. I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw that. It's probably just a fluke, just the way the dress is hanging or the way it falls under that jacket, but still, my eyes got wide!
Thanks for the clarification, PoorRichard. You could be right. Maybe BB was only there to hand over the keys to the kingdom, so to speak. Or maybe he directed some of the first things filmed and then handed over the power to someone else. It will be interesting to see how this works out. I still hope Ben Bolt remains involved.
Yikes! That was my first impression too!
Yes, sorry I was was thinking it might have been his mother's father but whichever one it was is totally irrelevant to your point.
So very nice of CC to give Vicky a hug as well as being really interested and attentive.
In every series he's devalued her work as a teacher. I hope they go somewhere towards resolving that issue at some stage.
I agree that LG has to change too if they want to live together harmoniously.
I know here's hoping it's an apron or something g
Gosh I hope it isn't LGs brother! I have high hopes that this guy is going to make DM jealous.
Ben Bolt has written 2 episodes this series so he could have been there as a writer?
She said on Twitter that she looked through the book and wanted Vicky to sign it for her but Vickys hands were shaking very badly and CC said to her relax try again and huggedherq.uite a few times. Nice to know she's appreciating her young fans
Now I remember someone saying that there is a dispute between Bert and Louisa, so it seems he has gone to her office to talk about it. Now the thing I am interested in is that Louisa seems to have three framed photos on her desk. What do you think is in them? I'm going for James, and maybe a picture of her and Martin at the wedding, and maybe another shot of James. What do you guys think?
First, I don't think he realised aged 5 that it is not completely correct to dissect a frog.
Second, at least he did something with Martin that stimulated his mind. I bet little Marty found it quite exciting and it might have been a nice memory.
Third, in Medical School he has probably seen worse.