I said 20 + years, not specifically the year of 1993
The music, the variety (in the 80s ILR stations were required to produce a mixture of programmes, not just wall to wall chart hits) the shows, decent presenters, the lack of networking
Commercial radio today is so lazy. Voice tracking, samey playlists
Commercial radio today is so lazy. Voice tracking, samey playlists
And no discernable talent.
You may as well stick the Heart playlist on your MP3 player and take that with you to work or wherever you listen to the radio. I can't see old recordings of current commercial stations being listened back to with fondness in 20 years time like many of the 80s and early 90s stations.
Commercial radio today is so lazy. Voice tracking, samey playlists
There's nothing lazy about it. Commercial radio is completely different today and is in a much healthier state compared with 20+ years ago (thank god). You are looking at it through of the eyes of an enthusiast and not a normal radio listener. While you may be sad names like CNFM, Invicta, Power FM are no longer with us, normal listeners don't give a toss.
Oh, like the Yorkshire Radio Network, Radio Nova being carried on a number of commercial stations, BRMB and Mercia networking at night and The Super Station, you mean? (Which were all in the 80s).
There's nothing lazy about it. Commercial radio is completely different today and is in a much healthier state compared with 20+ years ago (thank god).
oh do elaborate, I'd love to hear this.
You are looking at it through of the eyes of an enthusiast and not a normal radio listener. While you may be sad names like CNFM, Invicta, Power FM are no longer with us, normal listeners don't give a toss.
Piccadilly (Key 103), once a fine station with quality programming and presenters. Now it sounds like every other pop music station in Britain.
Normal listeners don't listen, they just mindlessly switch the radio on for some background noise, whilst they play with their smart phone
Oh, like the Yorkshire Radio Network, Radio Nova being carried on a number of commercial stations, BRMB and Mercia networking at night and The Super Station, you mean? (Which were all in the 80s).
A few stations at the end of the 80s networked at night only
A few stations at the end of the 80s networked at night only
Bit different now isn't it?
We didn't have the internet and digital TV/radio in the 1980s either. The "enthusiast" will often ignore all technological changes in the last thirty years and try and pretend that commercial radio is operating in the same advertising environment.
Stations like Radio West, CBC & Centre Radio couldn't survive when they were the only commercial stations in their areas, so how would they cope today if they were required to produce programmes around the clock?
Real Radio Wales produced quality speech programmes for the first four years (including news and sport) to try and compete with BBC Radio Wales and they ran up huge losses, it can't be done.
We didn't have the internet and digital TV/radio in the 1980s either. The "enthusiast" will often ignore all technological changes in the last thirty years and try and pretend that commercial radio is operating in the same advertising environment.
Stations like Radio West, CBC & Centre Radio couldn't survive when they were the only commercial stations in their areas, so how would they cope today if they were required to produce programmes around the clock?
Real Radio Wales produced quality speech programmes for the first four years (including news and sport) to try and compete with BBC Radio Wales and they ran up huge losses, it can't be done.
I'm aware that the radio "environment" is different but that doesn't take anything away from my argument that radio today is poorer quality.
More stations chasing the same slice of the audience pie means cheaper programming, whether it be voice tracking (even on a drivetime show?) or cheap presenters, networking wherever possible etc
This all leads me to ask why we have so many stations now, they haven't got the money to do anything other than be a top 40 jukebox. Hey but that's a different discussion.
I'm aware that the radio "environment" is different but that doesn't take anything away from my argument that radio today is poorer quality.
More stations chasing the same slice of the audience pie means cheaper programming, whether it be voice tracking (even on a drivetime show?) or cheap presenters, networking wherever possible etc
This all leads me to ask why we have so many stations now, they haven't got the money to do anything other than be a top 40 jukebox. Hey but that's a different discussion.
Radio in the UK these days is extremely dire, boring and bland. Presenters do very little actual presenting its just not entertaining anymore. Too many stations are playing almost non-stop music presenter personality is missing, Its a good job we have the internet there are decent presenter led music stations on there.
Back in this golden age of ILR that people speak so highly of stations closed down (ie : transmitters were switched off and everybody was let go). Many other stations would have closed too had it not been for various mergers and takeovers. Financially many stations were on their knees and were struggling to survive. Invicta FM was one of those!
It was still networked programming and those examples are just a few based on your "lack of networking "comment".
Back in this golden age of ILR that people speak so highly of stations closed down (ie : transmitters were switched off and everybody was let go). Many other stations would have closed too had it not been for various mergers and takeovers. Financially many stations were on their knees and were struggling to survive. Invicta FM was one of those!
wasn't Invicta FM one of the "new breed" tinpot stations?
I was referring to stations like Piccadilly, Radio City, Red Rose etc. The 'original' ILR stations (ok RR was formed in 1982) of which there were only around 60?before the govt deciding handing out licences in the early 90's to every tom dick and harry
Radio in the UK these days is extremely dire, boring and bland. Presenters do very little actual presenting its just not entertaining anymore. Too many stations are playing almost non-stop music presenter personality is missing, Its a good job we have the internet there are decent presenter led music stations on there.
There is only so much audience and a silly number of stations competing for it.
The result is like modern day TV. Tons of channels, all mediocre (or worse)
wasn't Invicta FM one of the "new breed" tinpot stations?
Invicta was far from tinpot. Considering the size of it's TSA its amazing how such a big station struggled. Had it not been for the merger of the Capital Group and GWR I doubt it would have survived past 2005/2006.
Invicta was far from tinpot. Considering the size of it's TSA its amazing how such a big station struggled. Had it not been for the merger of the Capital Group and GWR I doubt it would have survived past 2005/2006.
well Piccadilly had 1.5m listeners in it's day. What about Invicta?
It bears no resemblance to the station of the 1980s
And so it shouldn't either. Radio needs to evolve in order to survive. A radio station needs to move on from lost dogs, community billboards, buy & sell features which plagued ILR back in the day. Listening habits have changed somewhat since then.
And it shouldn't either. Radio needs to evolve in order to survive. A radio station needs to move on from lost dogs, community billboards, buy & sell features which plagued ILR back in the day
You must have had some dire stations near you..
Mine had rock programmes, current affairs, sport, country music, 60's , indie, even classical
What does todays station offer "morw music variety" or in plain English, the playlist of a chavs ipod, with adverts and chances to win x factor tickets.
Yes radio has evolved, into ultra cheap and lowest common denominator.
Ever wonder why Radio 2 doesn't follow this format? It has the money not to have to. That's what is wrong with commercial radio.
Ever wonder why Radio 2 doesn't follow this format? It has the money not to have to. That's what is wrong with commercial radio.
You can't compare Radio 2 with commercial radio. Radio 2 doesn't rely on commercial inventory in order to survive. If we weren't paying for the BBC I can assure you Radio 2 would be a totally different product.
Not at all. I was born and raised in London. My comment was about ILR in general.
You can't compare Radio 2 with commercial radio. Radio 2 doesn't rely on commercial inventory in order to survive. If we weren't paying for the BBC I can assure you Radio 2 would be a totally different product.
yes I know, I already said that.
but my original argument was that commercial radio today is poor, to which you challenged.
the reason why it is poor is another argument and doesn't detract away from the fact that ILR was better
Take a listen to some of the examples of ILR from the aircheck downloads site. Much of it is dire.
Most of the people on here who bemoan the lack of variety on commercial radio wouldn't listen anyway if it was there. I'm not sure why there's so much moaning anyway; perhaps it's because stations continue to draw audience with "bland uninteresting programming" when really they ought to have gone out of business. It must be terrible for some people to reason why.
And so it shouldn't either. Radio needs to evolve in order to survive. A radio station needs to move on from lost dogs, community billboards, buy & sell features which plagued ILR back in the day. Listening habits have changed somewhat since then.
Whose listening habits have changed?? Yours by chance?
There was and still is nothing wrong with the ILR model of station, and I can't believe the amount of people on this forum who say they like radio, and yet are prepared to put up with the rubbish that is being inflicted on listeners today. There is no creativity in radio anymore.
Take heart for example. Its dire. Where is the presentation? There is none, it's just cheap dull output, and they have been allowed to get away with it. Oh yes, but you will bang on about 7 million listeners. Doesn't matter, the output still isn't good enough.
Somebody, beit either in Government or Ofcom, need to stop this now, before, us the listener, has nothing to listen to anymore.
Take a listen to some of the examples of ILR from the aircheck downloads site. Much of it is dire.
Most of the people on here who bemoan the lack of variety on commercial radio wouldn't listen anyway if it was there. I'm not sure why there's so much moaning anyway; perhaps it's because stations continue to draw audience with "bland uninteresting programming" when really they ought to have gone out of business. It must be terrible for some people to reason why.
Ok, lets take X factor. It gets good ratings
but is it high quality programming?
Would you like the entire schedule to comprise of this type of show?
You base everything on ratings.
Remember, Mr Blobby had a number 1 hit in 1993.
Station WOULD go out of business if they didn't have the technology to produce cheapo programmes. e.g. voice tracking, networking everything except the breakfast show. Stuff that wasn't available to ILR stations in the 1980s.
Would you like the entire schedule to comprise of this type of show?
You base everything on ratings.
Remember, Mr Blobby had a number 1 hit in 1993.
Station WOULD go out of business if they didn't have the technology to produce cheapo programmes. e.g. voice tracking, networking everything except the breakfast show. Stuff that wasn't available to ILR stations in the 1980s.
Some people would view The X Factor as high quality programming, certainly for those who count it as their favourite show. The production values are certainly right up there. I dislike it but I'm not calling for it to be scrapped just because I happen to enjoy BBC4 documentaries.
Interesting point about Mr Blobby - in 1993 Noel's House Party was the top Saturday night TV show - have things improved in TV since those days? Absolutely they have.
In terms of radio there's plenty out there for all to enjoy. Commercial radio's demise would indeed be far quicker if companies are forced to go back to the 'good old days' of full service programming. There is no commercial value in pursuing that type of output nowadays. Why would anyone running a business do that? Turn listeners away?!
Some people would view The X Factor as high quality programming, certainly for those who count it as their favourite show. The production values are certainly right up there. I dislike it but I'm not calling for it to be scrapped just because I happen to enjoy BBC4 documentaries.
Interesting point about Mr Blobby - in 1993 Noel's House Party was the top Saturday night TV show - have things improved in TV since those days? Absolutely they have.
In terms of radio there's plenty out there for all to enjoy. Commercial radio's demise would indeed be far quicker if companies are forced to go back to the 'good old days' of full service programming. There is no commercial value in pursuing that type of output nowadays. Why would anyone running a business do that? Turn listeners away?!
Turn listeners away? Why would they?
Are you saying that the public demand wall to wall chav ipod music and ads?
If so, can you explain why R2 gets a huge audience. Surely they must hate those music documentaries and variety programming?
You seem to have a dislike of the old ILR business model. Sure it is commercially unviable now but that doesn't make it inferior to today's output
By the way, I thought NHP was a dreadful programme, made for 5 year olds but having said that we now have Deal or No Deal. The dullest witted quiz ever to grace television. Gets the viewers though.
Are you saying that the public demand wall to wall chav ipod music and ads?
If so, can you explain why R2 gets a huge audience. Surely they must hate those music documentaries and variety programming?
You seem to have a dislike of the old ILR business model. Sure it is commercially unviable now but that doesn't make it inferior to today's output
By the way, I thought NHP was a dreadful programme, made for 5 year olds but having said that we now have Deal or No Deal. The dullest witted quiz ever to grace television. Gets the viewers though.
Radio 2 cannot be replicated commercially. It gets a huge audience because it has every advantage going for it - total national FM coverage, multi-million pound budget, household name presenters, no commercials, cross-network and TV promotion for free etc. There's no denying it's a great station but it's a one off. It would very quickly change should it have to start making money.
In many (if not most) cases the old ILR model didn't make commercial sense even back then. Stations with 40% + reach couldn't make it viable because of the programming and inventory demands placed upon it by the IBA - who basically wanted an independent replica of the BBC. In some cases it wasn't all bad in terms of programming quality but if a business is to survive it has to cut its cloth accordingly and find a model which maximises both audience and revenue. The way that is now being achieved is by delivering formula programming. It's wallpaper radio for sure but that's how things have evolved. It's about creating brands and familiarity and, yes, making money. It seems to work. Here in Yorkshire for example Capital has a 26% reach. If you want to describe it as chav ipod music with ads then yes that's what the public are demanding! More people listen to Capital in Yorkshire than Radio 2. Gulp!
Radio 2 cannot be replicated commercially. It gets a huge audience because it has every advantage going for it - total national FM coverage, multi-million pound budget, household name presenters, no commercials, cross-network and TV promotion for free etc. There's no denying it's a great station but it's a one off. It would very quickly change should it have to start making money.
We're going round in circles, we've already established that the BBC has an advantage and that is not the point I'm making. Radio 2 has a huge audience without following the formula of commercial radio. You might say it's bears a bit more of a resemblance to the ILR model of the 80's.
Yourself and one or two others on this thread have indicated that radio has "moved on". It may have done, but improved it certainly hasn't. What is cheaper and easier than playing top 40 hits or the tracklist of an 80's best of CD, with some voice tracked links?
In many (if not most) cases the old ILR model didn't make commercial sense even back then. Stations with 40% + reach couldn't make it viable because of the programming and inventory demands placed upon it by the IBA - who basically wanted an independent replica of the BBC. In some cases it wasn't all bad in terms of programming quality but if a business is to survive it has to cut its cloth accordingly and find a model which maximises both audience and revenue. The way that is now being achieved is by delivering formula programming. It's wallpaper radio for sure but that's how things have evolved. It's about creating brands and familiarity and, yes, making money. It seems to work. Here in Yorkshire for example Capital has a 26% reach. If you want to describe it as chav ipod music with ads then yes that's what the public are demanding! More people listen to Capital in Yorkshire than Radio 2. Gulp!
You keep saying that ILR couldn't make it viable. Let's look at the original stations like Capital, BRMB and Piccadilly. The were all born in the early to mid seventies and it was a good 15 years before they changed their formula (ie splitting AM and FM) and another several years after that until they descended into the homogenised swill that they are today.
This failing business model lasted an awful long time!
Comments
I said 20 + years, not specifically the year of 1993
The music, the variety (in the 80s ILR stations were required to produce a mixture of programmes, not just wall to wall chart hits) the shows, decent presenters, the lack of networking
Commercial radio today is so lazy. Voice tracking, samey playlists
And no discernable talent.
You may as well stick the Heart playlist on your MP3 player and take that with you to work or wherever you listen to the radio. I can't see old recordings of current commercial stations being listened back to with fondness in 20 years time like many of the 80s and early 90s stations.
oh do elaborate, I'd love to hear this.
Piccadilly (Key 103), once a fine station with quality programming and presenters. Now it sounds like every other pop music station in Britain.
Normal listeners don't listen, they just mindlessly switch the radio on for some background noise, whilst they play with their smart phone
A few stations at the end of the 80s networked at night only
Bit different now isn't it?
We didn't have the internet and digital TV/radio in the 1980s either. The "enthusiast" will often ignore all technological changes in the last thirty years and try and pretend that commercial radio is operating in the same advertising environment.
Stations like Radio West, CBC & Centre Radio couldn't survive when they were the only commercial stations in their areas, so how would they cope today if they were required to produce programmes around the clock?
Real Radio Wales produced quality speech programmes for the first four years (including news and sport) to try and compete with BBC Radio Wales and they ran up huge losses, it can't be done.
I'm aware that the radio "environment" is different but that doesn't take anything away from my argument that radio today is poorer quality.
More stations chasing the same slice of the audience pie means cheaper programming, whether it be voice tracking (even on a drivetime show?) or cheap presenters, networking wherever possible etc
This all leads me to ask why we have so many stations now, they haven't got the money to do anything other than be a top 40 jukebox. Hey but that's a different discussion.
Radio in the UK these days is extremely dire, boring and bland. Presenters do very little actual presenting its just not entertaining anymore. Too many stations are playing almost non-stop music presenter personality is missing, Its a good job we have the internet there are decent presenter led music stations on there.
wasn't Invicta FM one of the "new breed" tinpot stations?
I was referring to stations like Piccadilly, Radio City, Red Rose etc. The 'original' ILR stations (ok RR was formed in 1982) of which there were only around 60?before the govt deciding handing out licences in the early 90's to every tom dick and harry
There is only so much audience and a silly number of stations competing for it.
The result is like modern day TV. Tons of channels, all mediocre (or worse)
Licences = ££ for the govt though.:rolleyes:
It probably isn't but then it isn't the same station or management anymore.
It bears no resemblance to the station of the 1980s
well Piccadilly had 1.5m listeners in it's day. What about Invicta?
You must have had some dire stations near you..
Mine had rock programmes, current affairs, sport, country music, 60's , indie, even classical
What does todays station offer "morw music variety" or in plain English, the playlist of a chavs ipod, with adverts and chances to win x factor tickets.
Yes radio has evolved, into ultra cheap and lowest common denominator.
Ever wonder why Radio 2 doesn't follow this format? It has the money not to have to. That's what is wrong with commercial radio.
yes I know, I already said that.
but my original argument was that commercial radio today is poor, to which you challenged.
the reason why it is poor is another argument and doesn't detract away from the fact that ILR was better
Most of the people on here who bemoan the lack of variety on commercial radio wouldn't listen anyway if it was there. I'm not sure why there's so much moaning anyway; perhaps it's because stations continue to draw audience with "bland uninteresting programming" when really they ought to have gone out of business. It must be terrible for some people to reason why.
Whose listening habits have changed?? Yours by chance?
There was and still is nothing wrong with the ILR model of station, and I can't believe the amount of people on this forum who say they like radio, and yet are prepared to put up with the rubbish that is being inflicted on listeners today. There is no creativity in radio anymore.
Take heart for example. Its dire. Where is the presentation? There is none, it's just cheap dull output, and they have been allowed to get away with it. Oh yes, but you will bang on about 7 million listeners. Doesn't matter, the output still isn't good enough.
Somebody, beit either in Government or Ofcom, need to stop this now, before, us the listener, has nothing to listen to anymore.
While I have some sympathy with certain aspects of your sentiments, I really do think you're going about it the wrong way.
I really do think that you are either living in denial, and / or are deluded.
You are doing yourself, and the reputation of this forum, no favours.
Ok, lets take X factor. It gets good ratings
but is it high quality programming?
Would you like the entire schedule to comprise of this type of show?
You base everything on ratings.
Remember, Mr Blobby had a number 1 hit in 1993.
Station WOULD go out of business if they didn't have the technology to produce cheapo programmes. e.g. voice tracking, networking everything except the breakfast show. Stuff that wasn't available to ILR stations in the 1980s.
Some people would view The X Factor as high quality programming, certainly for those who count it as their favourite show. The production values are certainly right up there. I dislike it but I'm not calling for it to be scrapped just because I happen to enjoy BBC4 documentaries.
Interesting point about Mr Blobby - in 1993 Noel's House Party was the top Saturday night TV show - have things improved in TV since those days? Absolutely they have.
In terms of radio there's plenty out there for all to enjoy. Commercial radio's demise would indeed be far quicker if companies are forced to go back to the 'good old days' of full service programming. There is no commercial value in pursuing that type of output nowadays. Why would anyone running a business do that? Turn listeners away?!
Turn listeners away? Why would they?
Are you saying that the public demand wall to wall chav ipod music and ads?
If so, can you explain why R2 gets a huge audience. Surely they must hate those music documentaries and variety programming?
You seem to have a dislike of the old ILR business model. Sure it is commercially unviable now but that doesn't make it inferior to today's output
By the way, I thought NHP was a dreadful programme, made for 5 year olds but having said that we now have Deal or No Deal. The dullest witted quiz ever to grace television. Gets the viewers though.
Radio 2 cannot be replicated commercially. It gets a huge audience because it has every advantage going for it - total national FM coverage, multi-million pound budget, household name presenters, no commercials, cross-network and TV promotion for free etc. There's no denying it's a great station but it's a one off. It would very quickly change should it have to start making money.
In many (if not most) cases the old ILR model didn't make commercial sense even back then. Stations with 40% + reach couldn't make it viable because of the programming and inventory demands placed upon it by the IBA - who basically wanted an independent replica of the BBC. In some cases it wasn't all bad in terms of programming quality but if a business is to survive it has to cut its cloth accordingly and find a model which maximises both audience and revenue. The way that is now being achieved is by delivering formula programming. It's wallpaper radio for sure but that's how things have evolved. It's about creating brands and familiarity and, yes, making money. It seems to work. Here in Yorkshire for example Capital has a 26% reach. If you want to describe it as chav ipod music with ads then yes that's what the public are demanding! More people listen to Capital in Yorkshire than Radio 2. Gulp!
We're going round in circles, we've already established that the BBC has an advantage and that is not the point I'm making. Radio 2 has a huge audience without following the formula of commercial radio. You might say it's bears a bit more of a resemblance to the ILR model of the 80's.
Yourself and one or two others on this thread have indicated that radio has "moved on". It may have done, but improved it certainly hasn't. What is cheaper and easier than playing top 40 hits or the tracklist of an 80's best of CD, with some voice tracked links?
You keep saying that ILR couldn't make it viable. Let's look at the original stations like Capital, BRMB and Piccadilly. The were all born in the early to mid seventies and it was a good 15 years before they changed their formula (ie splitting AM and FM) and another several years after that until they descended into the homogenised swill that they are today.
This failing business model lasted an awful long time!