She had third degree burns and needed skin grafts. The water was way too hot.
That's her own stupid fault. Millions upon millions of people make tea/coffee hotter than what McDonalds serve at. If she was that worried, she should have asked what temperature they serve at. Or used her common sense and not place a hot product between her thighs and open it up. Had she done the same thing at home, would she sue herself? What difference is to making a tea at home and her getting made one in McDonalds apart from the fact that the McDonalds one would be not as hot. Did you actually read the wiki link? Ok not the best for information, but it goes on to say what a British court had to say on the matter. One has to assume that hot drinks are going to be made from boiling water.
Can't speak for others, but while I may brew coffee and tea at boiling or near boiling temps, by the time they've finished brewing and I'm ready to drink them the water has cooled. McDonald's knew keeping their coffee at superheated temps was a source of safety concerns, but they ignored it. Liebeck was clumsy, but serving a near boiling cup of coffee in a flimsy styrofoam cup to someone in a car is negligent.
Can't speak for others, but while I may brew coffee and tea at boiling or near boiling temps, by the time they've finished brewing and I'm ready to drink them the water has cooled. McDonald's knew keeping their coffee at superheated temps was a source of safety concerns, but they ignored it. Liebeck was clumsy, but serving a near boiling cup of coffee in a flimsy styrofoam cup to someone in a car is negligent.
You're telling me that by the time you have made a coffee from a kettle and started lifting the cup or drinking from the cup that it is cooled to less than what McDonalds serve at? Maybe you are right, but I'm willing to bet that the majority of people, they do it straight after the boiling point. There is no safety concerns apart from caution, this is hot, well duh, I should hope so. McDonalds should have no part in what happens when they have passed over the goods unless the goods were defective.
You're telling me that by the time you have made a coffee from a kettle and started lifting the cup or drinking from the cup that it is cooled to less than what McDonalds serve at? Maybe you are right, but I'm willing to bet that the majority of people, they do it straight after the boiling point. There is no safety concerns apart from caution, this is hot, well duh, I should hope so. McDonalds should have no part in what happens when they have passed over the goods unless the goods were defective.
I don't drink instant coffee and I usually add cold milk. In the coffee shop I used to work at we served drinks at 160 F. Apparently this woman's coffee was closer to 190 F.
I don't drink instant coffee and I usually add cold milk. In the coffee shop I used to work at we served drinks at 160 F. Apparently this woman's coffee was closer to 190 F.
I still don't see the point. The majority of people worldwide will pour from a kettle which has just been boiled, thus when buying coffee you must assume it is boiling.
I still don't see the point. The majority of people worldwide will pour from a kettle which has just been boiled, thus when buying coffee you must assume it is boiling.
You may assume that, but even at the time it was not the industry standard to serve superheated beverages to the public in flimsy containers.
You may assume that, but even at the time it was not the industry standard to serve superheated beverages to the public in flimsy containers.
Everyone should assume that. Millions upon millions of people make coffee/tea everyday from boiling water. Superheated? Stop using stupid words, it was made from boiling water and served cooler. I pretty much doubt the container was flimsy either, lets face it, she managed to hold it between her thighs with no problem. What industry standard. Do yo have a link to such a standard?
Well maybe not madness - but when I recently purchased a seasonal latte with towering cream, the server went to put on the lid - but I didn't want squashed cream, so told him not to worry about the lid. But he was quite insistent - citing the health and safety rules for justification! The lid lasted on the cup for approx 5 seconds, and despite dicing with certain injury, managed to successfully consume said beverage with no mishap. phew!
strangely, those with the potentially more dangerous china cups did not have lids!
Did all this Health and Safety crap come from the EU? Because in relation to the UKIP thread, I thought this type of thing was why people wanted to vote for them, to leave the EU with their Health and safety, mercury light bulbs and pints no longer pints - not because people are racist. I've woken up to much confusion today, I admit I am naive when it comes to people's motives.:o
No, it did not, but that doesn't stop the "BNP in blazers" propogating that myth; any trip to a French or Spanish restaurant or bar will disabuse you of this idiocy.
Everyone should assume that. Millions upon millions of people make coffee/tea everyday from boiling water. Superheated? Stop using stupid words, it was made from boiling water and served cooler. I pretty much doubt the container was flimsy either, lets face it, she managed to hold it between her thighs with no problem. What industry standard. Do yo have a link to such a standard?
McDonald’s admitted at trial that its coffee is “not fit for consumption” when sold because it causes severe scalds if spilled or drunk;
McDonald’s admitted at trial that consumers are unaware of the extent of the risk of serious burns from spilled coffee served at McDonald’s then required temperature;
McDonald’s admitted that it did not warn customers of the nature and extent of this risk and could offer no explanation as to why it did not;
Liebeck’s treating physician testified that her injury was one of the worst scald burns he had ever seen.
McDonald’s did a survey of other coffee establishments in the area, and found that coffee at other places was between 30-40 degrees cooler.
McDonald’s admitted at trial that its coffee is “not fit for consumption” when sold because it causes severe scalds if spilled or drunk;
McDonald’s admitted at trial that consumers are unaware of the extent of the risk of serious burns from spilled coffee served at McDonald’s then required temperature;
McDonald’s admitted that it did not warn customers of the nature and extent of this risk and could offer no explanation as to why it did not;
Liebeck’s treating physician testified that her injury was one of the worst scald burns he had ever seen.
McDonald’s did a survey of other coffee establishments in the area, and found that coffee at other places was between 30-40 degrees cooler.
It annoys the hell out of me that someone can sue someone for something they themselves caused. She shouldn't be putting hot drinks between her thighs in the first place, it's a stupid idea. What's even worse is the fact she is trying to blame someone for it. She would be the type of person to complain that her drink wasn't hot enough if things were different.
It annoys the hell out of me that someone can sue someone for something they themselves caused. She shouldn't be putting hot drinks between her thighs in the first place, it's a stupid idea. What's even worse is the fact she is trying to blame someone for it. She would be the type of person to complain that her drink wasn't hot enough if things were different.
That's also not what I asked for was it?
We disagree, it's really not a big deal.
McDonald’s did a survey of other coffee establishments in the area, and found that coffee at other places was between 30-40 degrees cooler.
Sorry, that's the best I can do. I'll leave you to your outrage.
It annoys the hell out of me that someone can sue someone for something they themselves caused. She shouldn't be putting hot drinks between her thighs in the first place, it's a stupid idea. What's even worse is the fact she is trying to blame someone for it. She would be the type of person to complain that her drink wasn't hot enough if things were different.
That's also not what I asked for was it?
Any evidence for that?
Don't quite understand why people cannot accept that both parties were in the wrong.
McDonalds for serving the drink too hot.
The woman for putting it between her thighs.
Don't quite understand why people cannot accept that both parties were in the wrong.
McDonalds for serving the drink too hot.
The woman for putting it between her thighs.
She paid with skin.
McDonalds paid with money.
Apparently she nearly paid with her life.
And the punitive damages she was paid was reduced by 20% as she was found to be 20% at fault.
Don't quite understand why people cannot accept that both parties were in the wrong.
McDonalds for serving the drink too hot.
The woman for putting it between her thighs.
She paid with skin.
McDonalds paid with money.
What evidence do you want, me interviewing her? You know fine well there is no evidence so why ask? Still I do believe she would be the type of person to do that, she sued McDonalds because of the accident she herself caused, so I believe she is that type of person.
I also don't quite understand why some people are laying blame with McDonalds, even if it's just partial blame. Hot drinks are meant to be hot, even if it was cooler, a British court still come to the conclusion that it would cause burns because well dur, it's a hot drink.
The States are not as health and safety conscious as we nanny Brits are!!! The States, by and large, rely on each citizen, as MATURE ADULTS, to look out for themselves regarding health and safety, whereas, the Brits seem to rely on the government here to tell them how to live every second of their lives, because the Brits havent got one single brain cell to think for themselves!!!
Are you still here? :yawn:
What a silly and insulting post. Which country actually started this 'blame culture' do you think then? :rolleyes:
It's a big deal when someone has an accident then decides to blame someone else for it.
Maybe it's the best you can do, but I didn't ask for that.
Coffee 30-40 degrees cooler at other establishments should tell you something. You may drink water straight from the kettle, but if you run a business which includes handing hot beverages to people in cars you should assume that there are going to be accidents. Avoiding having policies that require those beverages to be served at such hazardous temperatures is not an unreasonable expectation- especially when McDonald's had been made aware of the hazard 700 times prior to this incident.
Coffee 30-40 degrees cooler at other establishments should tell you something. You may drink water straight from the kettle, but if you run a business which includes handing hot beverages to people in cars you should assume that there are going to be accidents. Avoiding having policies that require those beverages to be served at such hazardous temperatures is not an unreasonable expectation- especially when McDonald's had been made aware of the hazard 700 times prior to this incident.
It tells me what them establishments do, not what the standard is or if there is any standard or any legal procedure to follow. McDonalds shouldn't assume anything. They are serving a hot drink, as long as the goods they deliver are not defective, then they are covered. One should assume coffee/tea is made from boiling water and served straight away.
I don't known about Costa but McDonalds have a history of selling tea that is hotter than the surface of the sun that then, due to the design of their cups, sometimes ends up getting spilled over people with horrendous results.
Google it, there are many examples.
Tallish cups that are significantly narrower at the bottom than at the top are great for transportation and storage as they stack easily, but shit for carrying on a tray across a crowded restaurant.
Indeed they do! It's terrible, the cups are like paper as well.
That poor child who was scalded, I hope he was okay eventually.
Without the lid on the cup will lose all of it's strength. Engineering wise the lid is what makes it a rigid cylinder.
When it spills as the cup compresses and runs down your hand and burns the OP they'll drop the cup and potentially burn or splash it all over other customers.
They are quite right to insist on the lid, that is the way the takeaway cup comes. If you drink in you'll get it in a solid cup that won't have the same issue. The company does this for a reason, not to deliberately annoy.
Comments
That's her own stupid fault. Millions upon millions of people make tea/coffee hotter than what McDonalds serve at. If she was that worried, she should have asked what temperature they serve at. Or used her common sense and not place a hot product between her thighs and open it up. Had she done the same thing at home, would she sue herself? What difference is to making a tea at home and her getting made one in McDonalds apart from the fact that the McDonalds one would be not as hot. Did you actually read the wiki link? Ok not the best for information, but it goes on to say what a British court had to say on the matter. One has to assume that hot drinks are going to be made from boiling water.
You're telling me that by the time you have made a coffee from a kettle and started lifting the cup or drinking from the cup that it is cooled to less than what McDonalds serve at? Maybe you are right, but I'm willing to bet that the majority of people, they do it straight after the boiling point. There is no safety concerns apart from caution, this is hot, well duh, I should hope so. McDonalds should have no part in what happens when they have passed over the goods unless the goods were defective.
Not that I ever go in there, of course
Wouldn't that be classed as normal temperature surely? It's tea/coffee, these are usualy made with boiling or near boiling water.
I don't drink instant coffee and I usually add cold milk. In the coffee shop I used to work at we served drinks at 160 F. Apparently this woman's coffee was closer to 190 F.
I still don't see the point. The majority of people worldwide will pour from a kettle which has just been boiled, thus when buying coffee you must assume it is boiling.
You may assume that, but even at the time it was not the industry standard to serve superheated beverages to the public in flimsy containers.
Everyone should assume that. Millions upon millions of people make coffee/tea everyday from boiling water. Superheated? Stop using stupid words, it was made from boiling water and served cooler. I pretty much doubt the container was flimsy either, lets face it, she managed to hold it between her thighs with no problem. What industry standard. Do yo have a link to such a standard?
Anyway, HBO made a documentary about the whole thing. http://www.hotcoffeethemovie.com/default.asp?pg=mcdonalds_case
McDonald’s admitted at trial that its coffee is “not fit for consumption” when sold because it causes severe scalds if spilled or drunk;
McDonald’s admitted at trial that consumers are unaware of the extent of the risk of serious burns from spilled coffee served at McDonald’s then required temperature;
McDonald’s admitted that it did not warn customers of the nature and extent of this risk and could offer no explanation as to why it did not;
Liebeck’s treating physician testified that her injury was one of the worst scald burns he had ever seen.
McDonald’s did a survey of other coffee establishments in the area, and found that coffee at other places was between 30-40 degrees cooler.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93fsFvVqviA
Met at Reception, we had to walk for 10 mins to the conference room, through the factory.
All the while, Hard Hats and No Smoking messages.
After an hour and bit , I suggested a Smoking and Coffee Break.
"Thank eff for that" they said (8 people) "Ignore our HSE signs". Ashtrays appeared from thin air.
It was a great 3 days after that. Broke the ice.
It annoys the hell out of me that someone can sue someone for something they themselves caused. She shouldn't be putting hot drinks between her thighs in the first place, it's a stupid idea. What's even worse is the fact she is trying to blame someone for it. She would be the type of person to complain that her drink wasn't hot enough if things were different.
That's also not what I asked for was it?
We disagree, it's really not a big deal.
McDonald’s did a survey of other coffee establishments in the area, and found that coffee at other places was between 30-40 degrees cooler.
Sorry, that's the best I can do. I'll leave you to your outrage.
Any evidence for that?
Don't quite understand why people cannot accept that both parties were in the wrong.
McDonalds for serving the drink too hot.
The woman for putting it between her thighs.
She paid with skin.
McDonalds paid with money.
Apparently she nearly paid with her life.
And the punitive damages she was paid was reduced by 20% as she was found to be 20% at fault.
It's a big deal when someone has an accident then decides to blame someone else for it.
Maybe it's the best you can do, but I didn't ask for that.
What evidence do you want, me interviewing her? You know fine well there is no evidence so why ask? Still I do believe she would be the type of person to do that, she sued McDonalds because of the accident she herself caused, so I believe she is that type of person.
I also don't quite understand why some people are laying blame with McDonalds, even if it's just partial blame. Hot drinks are meant to be hot, even if it was cooler, a British court still come to the conclusion that it would cause burns because well dur, it's a hot drink.
Are you still here? :yawn:
What a silly and insulting post. Which country actually started this 'blame culture' do you think then? :rolleyes:
Coffee 30-40 degrees cooler at other establishments should tell you something. You may drink water straight from the kettle, but if you run a business which includes handing hot beverages to people in cars you should assume that there are going to be accidents. Avoiding having policies that require those beverages to be served at such hazardous temperatures is not an unreasonable expectation- especially when McDonald's had been made aware of the hazard 700 times prior to this incident.
So much potential irony there. Go on, tell us which country started it.
It tells me what them establishments do, not what the standard is or if there is any standard or any legal procedure to follow. McDonalds shouldn't assume anything. They are serving a hot drink, as long as the goods they deliver are not defective, then they are covered. One should assume coffee/tea is made from boiling water and served straight away.
Indeed they do! It's terrible, the cups are like paper as well.
That poor child who was scalded, I hope he was okay eventually.
When it spills as the cup compresses and runs down your hand and burns the OP they'll drop the cup and potentially burn or splash it all over other customers.
They are quite right to insist on the lid, that is the way the takeaway cup comes. If you drink in you'll get it in a solid cup that won't have the same issue. The company does this for a reason, not to deliberately annoy.