As it was the Time Lords who set it up, maybe they were powering it on a local level through the signal and that would have stopped when they sealed the crack.
Does anyone think Moffat willingly abandoned his own storylines for the entirity of Series 7? It probably wouldn't all have returned and then resolved in 60 minutes if he had got on with it for a third series.
I would have preferred that it hadn't come to this - but it means a clean slate for Capaldi and no wild claims that Moffat has retconned Series 5 & 6 in order to do so.
I don't pretend that it was all a grand plan - it doesn't even worrk without Day of The Doctor - but more time would have helped.
In a weird way the show's greatest strength is its biggest weakness. When you have characters able to alter time then everything can be contradicted, reinvented. The Doctor can die, live again, get old, get young, Gallifrey is destroyed, come back, the Daleks are destroyed, come back, assistant die, come back, are saviours of the universe (Rose) etc etc.
One possible approach - and I doubt the BBC will consider it - is scrap the non-linear storylines. Go with linear storylines that don't involve endless time travel, reboots of the Who universe. In essence, make it simple. But in doing so you might make the show less appealing.
Just rewatched the regen scene, I kept it together until Karen appeared and said "Raggedy man.....good night", I couldn't control myself, just started sobbing lol.
A beautful ending.
Just showed that Clara had no business being the companion for series 7, Amy and Rory should have been with him up until the end.
Totally agree.
I was in absolute bits. I just couldn't believe that was Matt Smith's final outing as the Doctor.
He brought real heart and soul to the role.
Can anyone explain why, at the Xmas dinner Clara was having with her family, her gran said "I wanted everything to stop. I wanted nothing to change ever again."? Did I miss a connection there?
I thought Matt Smith was the best he's ever been in this episode. He had some very witty lines. Especially the ones about his wig and his ears, which was particularly funny the way he delivered it. It was a very demanding episode for him with all the changes from the younger man to the older and he handled it really well. His makeup was really well done, not too much or OTT. The plot was unnecessarily convoluted and the special effects of the regeneration into the new Doctor could have been done better. But overall it was good and quite moving at the end.
It looks like Clara lives on the same estate as Rose used to.:)
As for the episode, it is still at the Marmite stage, but the autopsy isn't looking good.
First viewing thoughts.
Loved the cast and Matt Smith's performance. I liked the basic core of the story i.e The Doctor guarding the crack for hundreds of years, even if it was yet another recycled Moffat 'ageing' idea. But on the whole it was peppered with the usual Moffat trimmings which for me, stop many an average episode becoming good or even great episodes. Trimmings that have long become stale, ideas and clunky exposition above letting the drama tell the story.
And as for the ultimate question of the Regenration limit, the one that the showrunner actively forced forward so it happened on his watch. The question that was forced forward so he was the one that answered it on his stint, this life long fan, this dark and oh so complex writer....was that it, that was the best he could come up with.
Amy's appearance at the end was nicely done, a very sweet moment.
'Handles' was pleasant surprise as a bit of K9 esque comedy relief until it went all Tom Hanks Castaway/Bette Midler Beaches on us, still a well played moment though.
JLC impressed and I look forward to see how she develops (Moffat scripts allowing) next series.
Capaldi really should have appeared at the end of the bell tower regen scene, appearing from the smoke and rubble swinging his walking stick looking directly at the camera (I.e Clara) 'Hello'. then cut to the end credits.
In fact at one stage during the episode I actually thought that Capaldi would be an aged Matt Smith's Doctor and there would be no regeneration:) But that was the vodka you understand.
So on a first viewing some very lovely moments, a nice core to the story but once established it all became wrapped up in Moffat's usual wishy washy com con pleasing cod intellectual gubbings above letting the drama tell the story.
About to re watch it all it anyway so I could be wrong! maybe the halfarsed regeneration answer left a sour taste in my mouth.
Don't get me wrong it wasn't an awful episode there was a lot to like but it was everything about Moffat's era that brings on a few stifled yawns at the soullessness of it all.
Anyways I hope everyone had a nice Christmas day.:)
I can't believe it but as someone who isn't much of a Steven Moffat/Matt Smith era fan I thought it was bloody brilliant.
I'm about to re-watch so maybe I'll come back on to retract that and blame it on Christmas Day exhaustion (:p) but I thoroughly enjoyed it and loved the regeneration scene too. The quick flash to Peter Capaldi took me by surprise, as did Amy's appearance.
Orla Brady was fantastic in her role too. Overall, just a great episode. Aside from things such as Tom Baker's appearance and certain other key moments I'd even go as far to say that this one was better than the 50th anniversary special.
Some of the same gobbledegook that I've come to really dislike about Moffat (the regen limit resolve) but overall very enjoyable.
Can anyone explain why, at the Xmas dinner Clara was having with her family, her gran said "I wanted everything to stop. I wanted nothing to change ever again."? Did I miss a connection there?
Her Gran was talking about the first time she saw her husband, I think. And would guess she's a widow, so it was a 'beat' about loss...this is why Clara reacted so emotionally having 'lost' The Doctor. This was the tipping point scene for me...I was an emotional wreck for the rest of the episode!
Just watched it again in peace and quiet (and completely sober!)
I think it's a brilliant episode and gave Matt the material he deserved; stunning performance. And, repeating myself sorry, Jenna matched him. Just wonderful. (sniff)
So looking forward to the Peter C/Clara combo however much I'll miss Matt.
Going to watch AAISAT later on I-player...that'll set me off again!
It was good, but there was far too much crammed in to too little time.
The passage of time in the town was weird, centuries were to have passed yet everyone was still living in some kind of Victorian era. We are introduced to Barnable and then he's gone, there's no time to illustrate he's grown up or if he just died during an attack.
Clara comes and goes and comes and goes again obviously she couldn't stay with the doctor for the whole ep or she would have simply died of old age but again it felt disjointed.
The Doctor cannot leave but his enemies won't attack either, they are fearful he has a plan, yet centuries later they've not run out of patience they just keep throwing a few Daleks and a few Cybermen, you'd think they would realise he has no plan otherwise why keep antagonising him, just sit it out and wait for him to die.
Then finally as the doctor is about to die Clara walks up to the crack says "Yes the Doctor is here, he needs your help!". Galifrey simply send the Doctor another 12 regenerations and then it's gone, why didn't the Doctor simply talk to the crack and tell them it's too dangerous to come through when he first realises what it is!?
A few tweaks to the story and split it across two episodes would have been much better.
I'm actually getting really annoyed with the writing for Clara. Jenna Coleman a phenomenal actress and I don't think she's getting the best. I hope series eight - now that she's settled in, they'll develop the character a little more.
Matt's exit overall was a treat for the fans, however I was underwhelmed with the regeneration. If it were up to me I'd have had Capaldi appear mid-battle and save the day. It would have given us a taster as to what to expect with Capaldi as the doctor.
My initial thoughts when he was cast was that he'll have an element of 'darkness' to him - maybe it's just the regeneration process but he still has an element of Matt's doctor.
There is one question that remains though, how many regenerations has he been granted with this 'expansion'?
Wow, this thread is all a bit hostile. I personally really enjoyed it, and I've often criticized Moffat for his convoluted plots. In this, I think he wrapped up all the loose ends as well as it could have been done, and still made a relatively straight-forward story. It wasn't without its faults, but I found it very moving and I was sad to see Matt go.
I've been reading this thread since it was started a few days ago, and I have to say the amount of vitriol and utter abuse being thrown the way of Moffat, the crew, Capaldi and even other forum users makes me shake my head in despair.
Firstly, it's a TV show. Can't we all stop being so precious as to think that it actually matters on any grand scale?
Secondly, we all have our opinions. To paraphrase the old joke, they're like arse holes - we all have them and we think everyone else's stink. No one person is any more right or wrong than another for liking / disliking any particular episode, even this one.
Thirdly, if people are complaining about lazy writing please feel free to contribute exactly how you'd have done it differently or better. But be warned, some people may love your ideas while others will think they are a steaming pile of poo and will insist you've written it for yourself not the viewer and that you should never write another episode.
Personally I enjoyed it on the whole. There were things I could have done without, there things that I thought should have been given more time but we got what we got.
I doubt we'll ever know (unless Steven does an RTD type book once his tenure is over) exactly why we had the series splits, why long story arcs were seemingly forgotten in series 7, exactly when he found out Matt wanted to leave and if he would have planned the regeneration limit addressing any better if he'd had, say, 4 specials to say goodbye to Matt's Doctor rather than the 2 we got. One of which, being the 50th really had to be more a celebration I guess than a journey to save a dying Doctor. If you have 60 minutes to build up to a regeneration scene, while all the time feeling that 'fandom' is pestering you to tie up all the loose ends left over from 4 years ago I can imagine it being a tall order to please 'all the people all the time'. I agree that he's the one who brought the limit to the fore so it happened on his watch, but maybe when he had the original idea to do it he thought he might have had a little more time. Maybe - and this really is pure speculation - when he was saying that Doctor Who would take over TV in 2013, he thought he would be getting an extra couple of specials to play with but had the budget pulled or the BBC just changed their minds or any other reason we were left with 60 minutes to tie up just about everything.
As an aside to that, it's always been made clear that the Time Lords can grant extra regenerations, but I don't think it's ever been hinted that anyone else can. So, short of God actually appearing (or Santa) and gifting The Doctor a new set for his services to the universe I'm not exactly sure how else this could have been resolved, given that Gallifrey is still stuck on the other side of the crack. And I can just imagine the fallout on here if God or Santa had given him the new set of regenerations.
Anyway, I know I said it's just a TV show and we all have opinions, and we all think everyone else's stink but I'm gonna throw in mine now just for kicks.
Like many I felt the Christmas stuff with Clara's family was shoe horned in. Maybe there was a reason for it, but I admit it passed me by. I get the 'loss' parallel with her gran but other than that the rest of it was just painful.
I thought all the arm waving, Pete Townsend style, during the regen was a little OTT but - after reading other thoughts on here - I can at least accept the regen energy pulverising everything if you accept that the regenerations have been getting more violent along the way. Add in a reset of the limit (we have no idea how it's supposed to work) and cataclysmic fallout can be excused. Just.
I too would have preferred Capaldi to come striding out of that cataclysm rather than Matt being reset to a young face then just 'popping' into Capaldi*
I think the appearance of Amy, while done well, was a bit unfair on Clara - and Jenna - really, in that it gave the spotlight for the regeneration to a past character not the actress currently in that role. It almost felt like "hey Jenna, you've been OK but we're getting this girl back to say goodbye to The Doctor. You just stand there and pretend you aren't being given the cold shoulder". Shame, since she's been great in these last few episodes.
I loved David's first scene as The Doctor: "New teeth. Huh, that's weird" but wasn't keen on Matt's jumping about "I'm a girl. I'm a girl". Peter's scene was OK, but WTF has "new kidneys" got to do with anything? Unless he suddenly realised he really needed a wee I'm not sure why that line was there.
All that speech about remembering yourself and it being important to always remember who you were in those past lives makes me a bit nervous that this amnesia isn't going to be as temporary as we'd like, but I live in hope that his next line will be "I'm kidding".
On the whole, it was a decent episode that could have done with either a little more time, or a little less 'family'
Sorry for going on a bit.
*Bloody hell, that did sound better in my head I promise.
The passage of time in the town was weird, centuries were to have passed yet everyone was still living in some kind of Victorian era.
Maybe I completely misunderstood but the town was called Christmas and all that so I presumed the town was suspended in forever-Christmas with snow, lights, Victorian style etc forever.
So we'll have another worry about whether he's had 11 or 12 regens, in another 11 or 12 regens.
true, but if we take 3yrs to be the average length of time an actor plays the Doctor, then we don't need to worry for at least the next 35yrs or so.
By which time people will have re-evaluated Moffat's time in charge and calling it classic Doctor Who, as always happens.
No doubt the showrunner and or the guy playing the doctor in 2048ish will play a blinder, coming up with an even more elaborate way to break to regen limit.
I'm just gutted to know that one of my favourite stories now never happened.
Since Clara never splintered through time then Doc 1 was probably never pointed at the most helpful Tardis ergo no "The Doctors Wife". Hopefully the Great Intelligence was responsib6le for his wrong choice though so all will be right.
Seriously though, Clara is no longer the Impossible Girl ?
I'll have to watch it again 'cos there's a coupla things I didn't get , for instance - what was creating the force field around Trenzalore ? was it Orla Brady's gang ?
Comments
but can someone remind me - what was causing the truth-telling effect ? I was just thinking - was it still working in "Name of the Doctor" ?
In a weird way the show's greatest strength is its biggest weakness. When you have characters able to alter time then everything can be contradicted, reinvented. The Doctor can die, live again, get old, get young, Gallifrey is destroyed, come back, the Daleks are destroyed, come back, assistant die, come back, are saviours of the universe (Rose) etc etc.
One possible approach - and I doubt the BBC will consider it - is scrap the non-linear storylines. Go with linear storylines that don't involve endless time travel, reboots of the Who universe. In essence, make it simple. But in doing so you might make the show less appealing.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-25518352
BBC radio news is saying Mrs Brown's Boys topped the ratings
Apparently it did, but the last 10 mins of Who peaked at over 10 million. Averaged out it was 8. something, can't remember exactly.
Totally agree.
I was in absolute bits. I just couldn't believe that was Matt Smith's final outing as the Doctor.
He brought real heart and soul to the role.
As for the episode, it is still at the Marmite stage, but the autopsy isn't looking good.
First viewing thoughts.
Loved the cast and Matt Smith's performance. I liked the basic core of the story i.e The Doctor guarding the crack for hundreds of years, even if it was yet another recycled Moffat 'ageing' idea. But on the whole it was peppered with the usual Moffat trimmings which for me, stop many an average episode becoming good or even great episodes. Trimmings that have long become stale, ideas and clunky exposition above letting the drama tell the story.
And as for the ultimate question of the Regenration limit, the one that the showrunner actively forced forward so it happened on his watch. The question that was forced forward so he was the one that answered it on his stint, this life long fan, this dark and oh so complex writer....was that it, that was the best he could come up with.
Amy's appearance at the end was nicely done, a very sweet moment.
'Handles' was pleasant surprise as a bit of K9 esque comedy relief until it went all Tom Hanks Castaway/Bette Midler Beaches on us, still a well played moment though.
JLC impressed and I look forward to see how she develops (Moffat scripts allowing) next series.
Capaldi really should have appeared at the end of the bell tower regen scene, appearing from the smoke and rubble swinging his walking stick looking directly at the camera (I.e Clara) 'Hello'. then cut to the end credits.
In fact at one stage during the episode I actually thought that Capaldi would be an aged Matt Smith's Doctor and there would be no regeneration:) But that was the vodka you understand.
So on a first viewing some very lovely moments, a nice core to the story but once established it all became wrapped up in Moffat's usual wishy washy com con pleasing cod intellectual gubbings above letting the drama tell the story.
About to re watch it all it anyway so I could be wrong! maybe the halfarsed regeneration answer left a sour taste in my mouth.
Don't get me wrong it wasn't an awful episode there was a lot to like but it was everything about Moffat's era that brings on a few stifled yawns at the soullessness of it all.
Anyways I hope everyone had a nice Christmas day.:)
I think Mrs Brown's Boys topped the ratings overall, but the end of Doctor Who (the regeneration) must have had some kind of viewing figure peak.
I'm about to re-watch so maybe I'll come back on to retract that and blame it on Christmas Day exhaustion (:p) but I thoroughly enjoyed it and loved the regeneration scene too. The quick flash to Peter Capaldi took me by surprise, as did Amy's appearance.
Orla Brady was fantastic in her role too. Overall, just a great episode. Aside from things such as Tom Baker's appearance and certain other key moments I'd even go as far to say that this one was better than the 50th anniversary special.
Some of the same gobbledegook that I've come to really dislike about Moffat (the regen limit resolve) but overall very enjoyable.
Loved it.
Her Gran was talking about the first time she saw her husband, I think. And would guess she's a widow, so it was a 'beat' about loss...this is why Clara reacted so emotionally having 'lost' The Doctor. This was the tipping point scene for me...I was an emotional wreck for the rest of the episode!
Just watched it again in peace and quiet (and completely sober!)
I think it's a brilliant episode and gave Matt the material he deserved; stunning performance. And, repeating myself sorry, Jenna matched him. Just wonderful. (sniff)
So looking forward to the Peter C/Clara combo however much I'll miss Matt.
Going to watch AAISAT later on I-player...that'll set me off again!
The passage of time in the town was weird, centuries were to have passed yet everyone was still living in some kind of Victorian era. We are introduced to Barnable and then he's gone, there's no time to illustrate he's grown up or if he just died during an attack.
Clara comes and goes and comes and goes again obviously she couldn't stay with the doctor for the whole ep or she would have simply died of old age but again it felt disjointed.
The Doctor cannot leave but his enemies won't attack either, they are fearful he has a plan, yet centuries later they've not run out of patience they just keep throwing a few Daleks and a few Cybermen, you'd think they would realise he has no plan otherwise why keep antagonising him, just sit it out and wait for him to die.
Then finally as the doctor is about to die Clara walks up to the crack says "Yes the Doctor is here, he needs your help!". Galifrey simply send the Doctor another 12 regenerations and then it's gone, why didn't the Doctor simply talk to the crack and tell them it's too dangerous to come through when he first realises what it is!?
A few tweaks to the story and split it across two episodes would have been much better.
I'm actually getting really annoyed with the writing for Clara. Jenna Coleman a phenomenal actress and I don't think she's getting the best. I hope series eight - now that she's settled in, they'll develop the character a little more.
Matt's exit overall was a treat for the fans, however I was underwhelmed with the regeneration. If it were up to me I'd have had Capaldi appear mid-battle and save the day. It would have given us a taster as to what to expect with Capaldi as the doctor.
My initial thoughts when he was cast was that he'll have an element of 'darkness' to him - maybe it's just the regeneration process but he still has an element of Matt's doctor.
There is one question that remains though, how many regenerations has he been granted with this 'expansion'?
Wasn't it established by Matt just before he changed to Capaldi, that he had been given a whole new cycle? Therefore he could regednerate 12 times.
Firstly, it's a TV show. Can't we all stop being so precious as to think that it actually matters on any grand scale?
Secondly, we all have our opinions. To paraphrase the old joke, they're like arse holes - we all have them and we think everyone else's stink. No one person is any more right or wrong than another for liking / disliking any particular episode, even this one.
Thirdly, if people are complaining about lazy writing please feel free to contribute exactly how you'd have done it differently or better. But be warned, some people may love your ideas while others will think they are a steaming pile of poo and will insist you've written it for yourself not the viewer and that you should never write another episode.
Personally I enjoyed it on the whole. There were things I could have done without, there things that I thought should have been given more time but we got what we got.
I doubt we'll ever know (unless Steven does an RTD type book once his tenure is over) exactly why we had the series splits, why long story arcs were seemingly forgotten in series 7, exactly when he found out Matt wanted to leave and if he would have planned the regeneration limit addressing any better if he'd had, say, 4 specials to say goodbye to Matt's Doctor rather than the 2 we got. One of which, being the 50th really had to be more a celebration I guess than a journey to save a dying Doctor. If you have 60 minutes to build up to a regeneration scene, while all the time feeling that 'fandom' is pestering you to tie up all the loose ends left over from 4 years ago I can imagine it being a tall order to please 'all the people all the time'. I agree that he's the one who brought the limit to the fore so it happened on his watch, but maybe when he had the original idea to do it he thought he might have had a little more time. Maybe - and this really is pure speculation - when he was saying that Doctor Who would take over TV in 2013, he thought he would be getting an extra couple of specials to play with but had the budget pulled or the BBC just changed their minds or any other reason we were left with 60 minutes to tie up just about everything.
As an aside to that, it's always been made clear that the Time Lords can grant extra regenerations, but I don't think it's ever been hinted that anyone else can. So, short of God actually appearing (or Santa) and gifting The Doctor a new set for his services to the universe I'm not exactly sure how else this could have been resolved, given that Gallifrey is still stuck on the other side of the crack. And I can just imagine the fallout on here if God or Santa had given him the new set of regenerations.
Anyway, I know I said it's just a TV show and we all have opinions, and we all think everyone else's stink but I'm gonna throw in mine now just for kicks.
Like many I felt the Christmas stuff with Clara's family was shoe horned in. Maybe there was a reason for it, but I admit it passed me by. I get the 'loss' parallel with her gran but other than that the rest of it was just painful.
I thought all the arm waving, Pete Townsend style, during the regen was a little OTT but - after reading other thoughts on here - I can at least accept the regen energy pulverising everything if you accept that the regenerations have been getting more violent along the way. Add in a reset of the limit (we have no idea how it's supposed to work) and cataclysmic fallout can be excused. Just.
I too would have preferred Capaldi to come striding out of that cataclysm rather than Matt being reset to a young face then just 'popping' into Capaldi*
I think the appearance of Amy, while done well, was a bit unfair on Clara - and Jenna - really, in that it gave the spotlight for the regeneration to a past character not the actress currently in that role. It almost felt like "hey Jenna, you've been OK but we're getting this girl back to say goodbye to The Doctor. You just stand there and pretend you aren't being given the cold shoulder". Shame, since she's been great in these last few episodes.
I loved David's first scene as The Doctor: "New teeth. Huh, that's weird" but wasn't keen on Matt's jumping about "I'm a girl. I'm a girl". Peter's scene was OK, but WTF has "new kidneys" got to do with anything? Unless he suddenly realised he really needed a wee I'm not sure why that line was there.
All that speech about remembering yourself and it being important to always remember who you were in those past lives makes me a bit nervous that this amnesia isn't going to be as temporary as we'd like, but I live in hope that his next line will be "I'm kidding".
On the whole, it was a decent episode that could have done with either a little more time, or a little less 'family'
Sorry for going on a bit.
*Bloody hell, that did sound better in my head I promise.
Maybe I completely misunderstood but the town was called Christmas and all that so I presumed the town was suspended in forever-Christmas with snow, lights, Victorian style etc forever.
Or maybe I was drunk.
true, but if we take 3yrs to be the average length of time an actor plays the Doctor, then we don't need to worry for at least the next 35yrs or so.
By which time people will have re-evaluated Moffat's time in charge and calling it classic Doctor Who, as always happens.
No doubt the showrunner and or the guy playing the doctor in 2048ish will play a blinder, coming up with an even more elaborate way to break to regen limit.
Since Clara never splintered through time then Doc 1 was probably never pointed at the most helpful Tardis ergo no "The Doctors Wife". Hopefully the Great Intelligence was responsib6le for his wrong choice though so all will be right.
Seriously though, Clara is no longer the Impossible Girl ?
That's one way to spin it, I guess.
How does the rating of this Crimbo special compare to previous years?
Yes, he did...just remembered.