As others have said, it *did* create a big scandal then and I think a lot of people were surprised that he wasn't prosecuted, times weren't that different, but I think it would be wrong if the police went after him now, being as it was known about then and not new info which has just come forward.
Apart from a press interview I don't think the prosecution had any proof and have if Mandy refused to press charges or testify, that was an end of the matter.
Didn't Mandy's mum have a relationship with Bill Wyman's son?
But what do you expect the CPS to do if the person they would require as their complainant and key witness doesn't show any kind of inclination to participate?
But Something Must Be Done! Think of the...er...poor innocents who will suffer if Something is not Done!
Rightly or wrongly, the fact that it was consensual plays a big part in this. If a woman walks into a police station and says "a man had sex with me when i was 14, although i did consent" the chances of it being pursued are very slim
Consent is irrelevant, if the party is underage and deemed incapable, consequently, of forming a decision to agree or not. This is the legal position in 2015.
But Something Must Be Done! Think of the...er...poor innocents who will suffer if Something is not Done!
Child abuse is not a laughing matter, regardless of consent or not a forty something pervert sleeping with an immature 14 yr old is vile, there is no difference between him and now doing time high profile sex offenders.
Child abuse is not a laughing matter, regardless of consent or not a forty something pervert sleeping with an immature 14 yr old is vile, there is no difference between him and now doing time high profile sex offenders.
No one is saying abuse is a "laughing" matter but I and others have asked those who say it is wrong nothing has been done to suggest how the CPS and the police can do anything to secure a conviction when all those involved who could provide that evidence apparently refuse to comply.
As has been stated Wyman went to the police himself, what more can he do? If Mandy Smith or her parents want to report an offence has been committed, the media reports would easily be dismissed as cicumstantial and there seems to be no real evidence any sexual activity did .take place how precisely are the police supposed to act?
He says the realtionship was special and emotional at the time one wonders how he would feel now if some aging 80's pop star tried copping off with his 14 year old daughter claiming it to be love etc
Wyman obviously did do some questionable things and got away with it. I guess the police are not going to pursue him unless someone comes forward and says that he forced himself on them when they were underage. If they were willing participants there's not much the police can do about it now.
This. And as someone else on here, the police aren't gonna make extra work for themselves. Particularly as their funds are slashed & and they're still sifting thru fresh allegations concerning Saville and his ilk.
The thought of Wyman getting it on with a 13yr old makes my skin crawl & yes, there's still a double standard, but, there's only so much money people can use to investigate historical abuse. There's enough going on at this present time.
i expect all the rolling stones slept with underage girls,and the beatles,and many other 60s/70s bands
May be/may be not. Keith Richards mentions in his autobiography that Wyman always liked 'young' girls and that the rest of the band thought it was a bit questionable. Jagger, Richards and the rest generally appeared to have girlfriends over the age of consent. It might be true that some girls pretended to be older than they were but of course that's up to them. I guess most guys in a band aren't going to question it when a girl is willing and pretends she's older than she is.
May be/may be not. Keith Richards mentions in his autobiography that Wyman always liked 'young' girls and that the rest of the band thought it was a bit questionable. Jagger, Richards and the rest generally appeared to have girlfriends over the age of consent. It might be true that some girls pretended to be older than they were but of course that's up to them. I guess most guys in a band aren't going to question it when a girl is willing and pretends she's older than she is.
i was born in the 50s and things were a lot different then,dont think singers/bands asked to see a birth certifcate.,there was no security around stars as such,when i worked at the top rank club(they were nightclubs)you could just walk up to them and talk to them very different today.
We're getting to a point where 2 people dressed up for a bit of fun who are both WELL over the age of consent having a bit of a role play fun now need to both end up on the sex offenders register since one had a mortar and a cloak while the other had a white shirt/grey jumper and a short skirt with pig tails........might as well make it death to do it any other way than the missonary position with the lights off.
but as for Bill he's fine, sure he's been to plod and said you want to do anything and they're not interested and with all the media stuff around it would be an easy thing to prove without either of them giving evidence so why some plod can't get a promotion off this as it'll probably be easier than proving a 120 in a 30 zone escapes me as they did that footballer for rape and there was no complainant.
Well I still think that what the school uniform represents ie youth, or virginity, brings up questions about some guys sexual desires. It's a very murky area, but I know there are many porn videos out there that cater to this taste, and does suggest that many men, even if they don't act on it are titilated at the thought of youthful girls, and the taking of virginity etc. As I say it's a very delicate subject but the fact that this desire exists cannot easily b denied. You may pass it off as fun.....if you don't stop to analyse it.:(
May be/may be not. Keith Richards mentions in his autobiography that Wyman always liked 'young' girls and that the rest of the band thought it was a bit questionable. Jagger, Richards and the rest generally appeared to have girlfriends over the age of consent. It might be true that some girls pretended to be older than they were but of course that's up to them. I guess most guys in a band aren't going to question it when a girl is willing and pretends she's older than she is.
This is true. According to more than one biographer. Wyman wasn't into drugs or partying. His "thing" was young girls. Whether you think it's acceptable given the 60's/70's cultural climate or not. That's the reality. He started a relationship with her when she was 13. He was 47 then. Mandy Smith admitted they had sex when she was 14.
Do people think the police deliberately make work for themselves?
If you want an accurate portrayal of how they view cases, watch The Wire
They investigate something if a complaint is made. If it isn't, they don't
If it is a high profile celebrity case, they throw the kitchen sink at it and are determined to make something stick.
The Dave Lee Travis case proved that.
The charge that he was eventually convicted of was obviously a non case and should have been thrown out of court. The "victim" is on record as having other totally different accounts of the said events that it was to me a farcical conviction.
She even said in one interview that the physical contact that DLT was accused of could well have been accidental.
I only found this out yesterday while discussing the same matter on another board - Townshend did NOT access any child porn. He paid to sign up to a group of porn sites, one of which apparently advertised the availability of CP, but he never actually accessed that particular site, he visited only the 'normal' ones which is why he only got a caution. In the same 'sting' (ie Operation Ore) Chris Langham did actually download illegal material, which is why he went to prison.
With regards to Wyman, there has not been any other complaint of inappropriate behaviour against him as far as I know. I'm sure I read somewhere that Wyman attended her 'eighteenth' birthday party, and was horrified to discover on arrival it was actually her sixteenth, given what he'd been up to with her. She was (physically at least) fully mature and a regular on the London club scene by her early teens. He may have later married her simply to stave off accusations of paedophilia, we'll never know, but his behaviour when taken as a whole doesn't suggest someone craving underage sex - more a silly old bugger who should have been more careful. Mandy Smith and her family appear to bear him no ill will, and can't deny their own complicity in the whole affair, so really what is the point of pursuing it?
At the time he and his PR people said he was accessing the site as research for a book he was writing about CP ....if as you say he did'nt actually access the CP site then why would he feel the need to issue this statement . Do you really think the police would give a caution for anything other than visiting a CP site . Youre assessment makes little sense.
Sadly in my view Towensend and Wyman prove that if you're a big enough star .......
The legal position has changed - in those days the girl involved had to make a complaint which she chose not to do. Nowadays there can be a prosecution without the girl's consent (although it might be tricky if she's not prepared to tell the police anything I suppose you would need evidence from a third party)
At the time he and his PR people said he was accessing the site as research for a book he was writing about CP ....if as you say he did'nt actually access the CP site then why would he feel the need to issue this statement . Do you really think the police would give a caution for anything other than visiting a CP site . Youre assessment makes little sense.
Sadly in my view Towensend and Wyman prove that if you're a big enough star .......
The statement at the time was poorly worded - he was considering writing a book about CP, andapparently his own experiences as a child, and paid for access to the sites as preparation for research. After changing his mind, he did not access the CP site. However, as the intention was there - however fleetingly and for whatever reasons - he was issued with the caution rather than prosecuted.
If he'd gone on the site, he would have been charged. Ask Chris Langham, who tried a similar defence but DID view CP. I too was surprised Townshend got away with it until I discovered the facts. You can't punish someone for contemplating a crime but then deciding not to go ahead with it.
The statement at the time was poorly worded - he was considering writing a book about CP, andapparently his own experiences as a child, and paid for access to the sites as preparation for research. After changing his mind, he did not access the CP site. However, as the intention was there - however fleetingly and for whatever reasons - he was issued with the caution rather than prosecuted.
If he'd gone on the site, he would have been charged. Ask Chris Langham, who tried a similar defence but DID view CP. I too was surprised Townshend got away with it until I discovered the facts. You can't punish someone for contemplating a crime but then deciding not to go ahead with it.
He also wanted to prove where the money went as part oif the book. He did tell the police he was going to do that. One officer said to him that he should never have been cautioned either but thats what the law says.
Makes you wonder what he may have discovered but was thrown to the wolves to protect someone. He is the only one I believe due to the fact he has never hidden the fact that he was abused. Look at Tommy for evidence of this.
At the time he and his PR people said he was accessing the site as research for a book he was writing about CP ....if as you say he did'nt actually access the CP site then why would he feel the need to issue this statement . Do you really think the police would give a caution for anything other than visiting a CP site . Youre assessment makes little sense.
Sadly in my view Towensend and Wyman prove that if you're a big enough star .......
It looks like they did....I think this was Operation Ore which was a collection of names scooped up by American law enforcers, it seems the websites were run by criminals..
But after examining seized computers and looking at browser history records, two UK police forces told the meeting that the files found showed that "it was possible to ... pay for material ... without making any choices at all and without any warnings that paedophile material was available."
Seems there's one law for Gary Glitter, another for Bill Wyman.
Consensual sex with a minor is "statutory rape" as the minor is not deemed mature enough to give consent. However, the police can't take action without the consent of either the minor (a contradiction as it suggests that the minor is not mature enough to give consent but is mature enough to know the seriousness and implications of pressing a charge or even making a story up) or their parent/s or guardian/s.
The girl concerned didn't want to take action (understandably as it appears she really loved him and he loved her) and her parents didn't want to take action (my older sister and her friends used to know her back than and by all their accounts, the mother was all about pushing her pretty daughter, who looked at least 5 years older than she actually was, onto famous and wealthy men of any age).
What about Elvis ... He married Priscilla when she was about 15. Likewise DJ John Peel married a 15 year old in Dallas.
Different countries, and even different states within those countries when they're as large as the US, have different ages of consent. You can't charge a person under UK law if what they did wasn't an offence where they did it.
Comments
Apart from a press interview I don't think the prosecution had any proof and have if Mandy refused to press charges or testify, that was an end of the matter.
Didn't Mandy's mum have a relationship with Bill Wyman's son?
But Something Must Be Done! Think of the...er...poor innocents who will suffer if Something is not Done!
Consent is irrelevant, if the party is underage and deemed incapable, consequently, of forming a decision to agree or not. This is the legal position in 2015.
Child abuse is not a laughing matter, regardless of consent or not a forty something pervert sleeping with an immature 14 yr old is vile, there is no difference between him and now doing time high profile sex offenders.
No one is saying abuse is a "laughing" matter but I and others have asked those who say it is wrong nothing has been done to suggest how the CPS and the police can do anything to secure a conviction when all those involved who could provide that evidence apparently refuse to comply.
As has been stated Wyman went to the police himself, what more can he do? If Mandy Smith or her parents want to report an offence has been committed, the media reports would easily be dismissed as cicumstantial and there seems to be no real evidence any sexual activity did .take place how precisely are the police supposed to act?
This. And as someone else on here, the police aren't gonna make extra work for themselves. Particularly as their funds are slashed & and they're still sifting thru fresh allegations concerning Saville and his ilk.
The thought of Wyman getting it on with a 13yr old makes my skin crawl & yes, there's still a double standard, but, there's only so much money people can use to investigate historical abuse. There's enough going on at this present time.
May be/may be not. Keith Richards mentions in his autobiography that Wyman always liked 'young' girls and that the rest of the band thought it was a bit questionable. Jagger, Richards and the rest generally appeared to have girlfriends over the age of consent. It might be true that some girls pretended to be older than they were but of course that's up to them. I guess most guys in a band aren't going to question it when a girl is willing and pretends she's older than she is.
i was born in the 50s and things were a lot different then,dont think singers/bands asked to see a birth certifcate.,there was no security around stars as such,when i worked at the top rank club(they were nightclubs)you could just walk up to them and talk to them very different today.
Well I still think that what the school uniform represents ie youth, or virginity, brings up questions about some guys sexual desires. It's a very murky area, but I know there are many porn videos out there that cater to this taste, and does suggest that many men, even if they don't act on it are titilated at the thought of youthful girls, and the taking of virginity etc. As I say it's a very delicate subject but the fact that this desire exists cannot easily b denied. You may pass it off as fun.....if you don't stop to analyse it.:(
This is true. According to more than one biographer. Wyman wasn't into drugs or partying. His "thing" was young girls. Whether you think it's acceptable given the 60's/70's cultural climate or not. That's the reality. He started a relationship with her when she was 13. He was 47 then. Mandy Smith admitted they had sex when she was 14.
If it is a high profile celebrity case, they throw the kitchen sink at it and are determined to make something stick.
The Dave Lee Travis case proved that.
The charge that he was eventually convicted of was obviously a non case and should have been thrown out of court. The "victim" is on record as having other totally different accounts of the said events that it was to me a farcical conviction.
She even said in one interview that the physical contact that DLT was accused of could well have been accidental.
At the time he and his PR people said he was accessing the site as research for a book he was writing about CP ....if as you say he did'nt actually access the CP site then why would he feel the need to issue this statement . Do you really think the police would give a caution for anything other than visiting a CP site . Youre assessment makes little sense.
Sadly in my view Towensend and Wyman prove that if you're a big enough star .......
The statement at the time was poorly worded - he was considering writing a book about CP, andapparently his own experiences as a child, and paid for access to the sites as preparation for research. After changing his mind, he did not access the CP site. However, as the intention was there - however fleetingly and for whatever reasons - he was issued with the caution rather than prosecuted.
If he'd gone on the site, he would have been charged. Ask Chris Langham, who tried a similar defence but DID view CP. I too was surprised Townshend got away with it until I discovered the facts. You can't punish someone for contemplating a crime but then deciding not to go ahead with it.
He also wanted to prove where the money went as part oif the book. He did tell the police he was going to do that. One officer said to him that he should never have been cautioned either but thats what the law says.
Makes you wonder what he may have discovered but was thrown to the wolves to protect someone. He is the only one I believe due to the fact he has never hidden the fact that he was abused. Look at Tommy for evidence of this.
Because what people fail to see is her and the mother enjoyed the money he was paying to keep quiet.
It looks like they did....I think this was Operation Ore which was a collection of names scooped up by American law enforcers, it seems the websites were run by criminals..
What about Elvis ... He married Priscilla when she was about 15. Likewise DJ John Peel married a 15 year old in Dallas.
Presumably if they were allowed to marry it wasn't against the law?
Consensual sex with a minor is "statutory rape" as the minor is not deemed mature enough to give consent. However, the police can't take action without the consent of either the minor (a contradiction as it suggests that the minor is not mature enough to give consent but is mature enough to know the seriousness and implications of pressing a charge or even making a story up) or their parent/s or guardian/s.
The girl concerned didn't want to take action (understandably as it appears she really loved him and he loved her) and her parents didn't want to take action (my older sister and her friends used to know her back than and by all their accounts, the mother was all about pushing her pretty daughter, who looked at least 5 years older than she actually was, onto famous and wealthy men of any age).
Different countries, and even different states within those countries when they're as large as the US, have different ages of consent. You can't charge a person under UK law if what they did wasn't an offence where they did it.