Skype - Some Questions

I'm thinking about getting one of these Skype phones, but I just have a couple of questions. Firstly, can anyone recommend a good phone to me? I was thinking of this one - http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000E0XRFQ/qid=1147815327/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/203-0797233-7399113

Also, how does the credit work? Do you buy vouchers in time (for example, do you buy a 30 minute voucher?), or do you buy them in money (for example a £30 voucher).
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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,604
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    Also, how does the credit work? Do you buy vouchers in time (for example, do you buy a 30 minute voucher?), or do you buy them in money (for example a £30 voucher).

    Calls to other Skype users are completely free.

    If you want to make calls to regular phone numbers (SkypeOut), then you buy credit in terms of currency. The rate you pay for calls depends on where you're calling, but it's generally very cheap. All the details are here:
    http://www.skype.com/products/skypeout/rates/
  • BexTechBexTech Posts: 12,957
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    Skype is a toy town service, have a look in the VoIP section of these forums and go for a proper VoIP service.

    http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/forumdisplay.php?f=132

    Skype is only free to other Skype customers and is a proprietry system.

    Skype charge for an incomming number and their rates aren't great for non Skype calls.

    www.sipgate.co.uk offers an incomming number of any area code you wish and it's free.

    http://www.voiptalk.org/reallyvoip have an offer on at the moment, incoming number for free and some free credit.

    Once you've used a grown ups service you won't want to go back to the kids service again.
  • mandarinmandarin Posts: 31
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    I've yet to get a skype call to work without horrible interference. It is handy if you want to move a large file though - always seems quicker than sending by email.

    Mike
  • John_ElwayJohn_Elway Posts: 5,121
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    Skype works fine, now it's got popular some people pretend they don't like it because they're too cool ;)

    I have used skype since it first came out, I use it on a wireless network on a laptop that is only 1.6ghz and 512 ram on XP. If that wasn't enough my headset is also wireless (Plantronics C60 USB). The quality is amazing, why do I need to change? To be *cool*?

    I don't need a phone number, already have one and I bet all those that say sipgate (et al.) give you a free phone number also have a telephone in the house. :rolleyes: But hey if you want one, yes sipgate give you a phone number for free whereas you pay for it with skype.

    As soon as sipgate gets big (if they do) they'll all say that isn't cool too.

    Stick with what you need. They both work fine. But don't be put off with skype is rubbish, because it isn't. I've used it nearly everyday for years and it's never once let me down.
  • BexTechBexTech Posts: 12,957
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    I've used Skype since it launched, but only now to test, since I've seen the light. Skype is a P2P based application, gobbles into your download/upload limit when you aren't making calls as well as obviously when making calls.

    Proper VoIP services use an open standard, you can call others on SIP directly no matter what SIP provider they are on and pay nothing for the call, also many have peering arrangements so you can call via there phone number and still get the call free even though they aren't on the same network.

    It has nothing to do with 'being cool' it to do with the fact proper VoIP (SIP) is the better system.

    As SIP is open, there are several soft-phones you can use, you can by numerous VoIP phones and there are several ATAs where you connect a standard phone, these latter two you don't need your PC on to make and receive calls.

    Skype is OK for the kids, but when they grow up they would probably want a proper service too.

    Skype have been losing market share for ages, as more and more people take up proper VoIP services, Skype are now having to offer free calls to landlines in USA and Canada for those who live in the USA and Canada because most people are using proper VoIP instead of toy town VoIP.
  • John_ElwayJohn_Elway Posts: 5,121
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    You believe too much of what you read.

    Skype is crystal clear and saves me a fortune. I am on a metered ISP, (Zen Internet) and my package is 20gb a month. It resets at the beginning of every month. You can check your usage that is updated several times a day. Get the picture? Right.

    I use skype about 4 hours everyday (max - average 3 maybe) and when I'm not using it it's always open and running.

    Another family member also uses this wireless network for their general day to day surfing etc.

    Right now (I just checked) May 17th, I have used 2.7gb of my allowance for all my surfing (including my other family member) as well as skype. So is this your 'gobbling up' my download limit??? See what I mean? Where do you get your stuff from?

    You've not given me any reason to change. Phrases like 'toy town' and 'for kids' don't refer to anything tangible other than your perception of what skype is. Heck you're telling me my download limit should be getting 'gobbled up' and I have shown you it really isn't.

    Sure skype are offering free landline and mobile calls in North America to increase usage. So what? 5 years ago Dell PCs were bloody expensive and now they're throwing them at you. Think they did this because they want to? Every company in the world does things to promote itself and technology is indeed ruthless. It means nothing. If you don't do it you die.

    I'll move over to sipgate or anyone right now if you convince me I really would. I'm no skype supporter. But the only arguments I've ever heard are oddly the same phrases that people seem to just repeat.

    1. Gobble up download limit? Well, I've just shown for me it is not the case and I refuse to believe my setup is 'special'.

    2. Sipgate is a 'better system'?

    3. 'You don't need your PC on to make calls with sipgate' ... you are just repeating their marketing LOL .. my PC is always on so???

    4. 'Skype is ok for kids'???

    See what I mean? I am on skype this second talking with someone in Malaga, the reception is crystal clear. So, got any real reasons for me to switch other than believing what you read and meaningless phrases?

    Don't get me wrong, I am not intending to sound disrespectful. I am begging to hear real tangible reasons to leave skype, and I have never heard anything that I can't put down to, "dunno, some bloke on the internet says skype is for kids". The only thing you said that I could measure is the download limit and the reality turned out 'mysteriously' to be different to what you said.

    I'm just being devil's advocate, can you make it harder please? :confused:
  • BexTechBexTech Posts: 12,957
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    Your behind a router, so the P2P side doesn't usually kick in.

    I'm not repeating Sipgates marketing, I'm simply stating s true fact.

    Sipgate is just one SIP provider, I said SIP is a better system, not Sipgate, SIP is an open standard, there are many devices to use.

    Skype is OK, but is really only for dipping your toes in.

    My computers are often on most of the time, but I want a phone service that works like a standard phone line, hence my ATA is connected up to my old landline system, people wouldn't know without me telling them, that they are using a VoIP system.
  • John_ElwayJohn_Elway Posts: 5,121
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    SIP, sipgate.. whatever.

    Being 'behind' a router doesn't mean I get unmetred downloads anyway. What happened to my limits being 'gobbled up'?

    Again, you are saying 'better'... what does this actually mean in reality? :confused:

    So you have nothing real then, just phrases which amount to opinions, which we all have. :( Just like I said before.

    Oh well.
  • SystemSystem Posts: 2,096,970
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    I'll try and explain it better than BexTech (though i'm not very good at explaining things).

    All the various VOIP products are P2P in that the connections between two people talking are direct. However when you're both behind a restrictive firewall or are using NAT you are unable to create a direct connection between your machine and the machine of the person you are talking to.

    In order to get around this problem you need a third machine to pass the data between the two of you, a kind of proxy server. This is where the SIP providers and Skype differ.

    The SIP providers usually provide this proxy server themselves and recoup the costs from providing other services (call-in and call-out to the old PSTN being an example).

    Skype, on the other hand, use people like yourself, who have downloaded the Skype software but aren't behind a restrictive firewall and have a publicly addressable IP. This keeps Skype's costs down but for the hapless person whose computer has become a supernode it can mean their connection slows to a crawl as their computer handles hundreds of other Skype users calls.

    There is no way of disabling this behaviour in the Skype software and many people who become supernodes may not even notice the traffic that is passing through their machine. If the supernode happens to be connected to an ISP that has a quota system (as many now do) the customer can quickly rack up massive bills without knowing about it.

    Hopefully i did an OK job of explaining the traffic implications of Skype. There are more issues with Skype regarding proprietary standards vs open standards, but i'll leave that for another post.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 741
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    John_Elway wrote:
    SIP, sipgate.. whatever.

    John - one is an open internet standard, the other is a company. SMTP, Exchange whatever
    Being 'behind' a router doesn't mean I get unmetred downloads anyway. What happened to my limits being 'gobbled up'?

    It's a well known behaviour of Skype that you can become a transit node for other peoples calls - many of them simultaneously - which would gobble up your bandwidth for no purpose (as far as you're concerned) - mostly it can be controlled by being behind a NAT router - but there are still a lot of people out there using a USB modem to attach to the internet.
    Again, you are saying 'better'... what does this actually mean in reality? :confused:

    Imagine you're driving a car along the road and you're running low on petrol - but your car can only use Esso brand petrol - you can only buy Esso petrol and there's no Esso station, you can only buy Skype credits from Skype.....

    SIP is like you have for your car now - there's a lot of different petrol companies you can buy from, just like there are lots of SIP providers you can choose to use (and not exclusively use just one). More providers means competition and competition forces prices down (remember your SkypeOut conversation where you insisted it was 0.118p/min when in fact it was GBP0.118/min - only a factor of 100 wrong)
    So you have nothing real then, just phrases which amount to opinions, which we all have. :( Just like I said before.

    Oh well.

    Why don't any large enterprises use Skype then ? In fact of the three I work closely with all three ban it outright. If Skype is so good they would be embracing it with open arms - like they are SIP, MGCP, IAX & Cisco SCCP-based products.
  • BexTechBexTech Posts: 12,957
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    I didn't say being behind a router gives you unlimited downloads, please if you want a proper discussion don't behave like a child.

    When you connect a single PC running Skype to the Internet, it may
    become a Skype supernode, thus consuming a lot of bandwidth. When the
    PC is hidden behind a NAT router, the Skype program will likely be unable to become a supernode.
  • John_ElwayJohn_Elway Posts: 5,121
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    thanks rhetherington, I get what you're saying :)

    My point was (and is) that I have never experienced any of these downsides. You saw the spec of my 'old' laptop ( :( ) and it's never reduced to a crawl, my download limits have never been swallowed up into the unknown.

    I don't disbelieve that SIP has its advantages over skype, don't get me wrong. My argument is always that whenever I read what people say about skype I have never experienced it. Bextech isn't the first person to warn me my download limits rapidly get eaten, loads of people have told me the quality is bad too. The only times I have ever had an issue with skype was when I was part of a conference call ... me in the UK, someone in Canada, one from New Mexico and someone from California. It worked but could have been better. But hey, that's pushing it. lol

    I just for someone to say THIS is the downside of using skype, me to be able to check it out in reality then I'll say fine and I'll switch. But right now we have these reasons, none of which I've experienced or affect me in the slightest.

    Cheers for the explanation though. :)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,866
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    Skype is fantastic for anyone wanting to try it out. Not sure what is being taked about above. It flies for me with a better and clearer sound than my landline. I also am wireless and have a firewall. I don't use up bandwidth.

    If you are like me and enjoy free calls with amazing quality, you cannot improve on that.
  • John_ElwayJohn_Elway Posts: 5,121
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    BexTech wrote:
    I didn't say being behind a router gives you unlimited downloads, please if you want a proper discussion don't behave like a child.

    When you connect a single PC running Skype to the Internet, it may
    become a Skype supernode, thus consuming a lot of bandwidth. When the
    PC is hidden behind a NAT router, the Skype program will likely be unable to become a supernode.

    Dude, keep it simple, you said my download limit was being 'gobbled up' . I said (more than once) that skype is on my PC 24hrs a day and I use it on average 3 hours a day and so far this month I have used 2.7gb of download, that's with two people using the same connection for surfing etc..

    So ... I was asking, is this your definition of 'gobbled up'??? :confused: Because it isn't mine.

    And as I just said neither does my crusty old laptop slow to a crawl - and I'm on it from 10am till 10pm everyday (stopping for food etc! lol) so I would notice.

    I'm just saying (again) I would like reasons that I can actually see for myself. Because everything I've read so far amounts to a regurgitation of opinions.

    Show me where my PC and service is being adversely affected and I'll switch right now.
  • SystemSystem Posts: 2,096,970
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    John_Elway wrote:
    My point was (and is) that I have never experienced any of these downsides. You saw the spec of my 'old' laptop ( :( ) and it's never reduced to a crawl, my download limits have never been swallowed up into the unknown.

    You wont see these issues because you're behind a router that is using NAT. But while *you* aren't seeing them you should keep in mind that because you are behind NAT your data is going to be passed through some other Skype user's computer, and could possibly be contributing to that user getting a shock when his Internet bill comes through the door next month. :)

    If you like Skype that's perfectly fine, but i wont personally use it.

    I use Gizmo. It doesn't come with a free number like Sipgate, but since i only use my computer to receive calls i needed a provider with a good Mac softphone. Gizmo's give equal weight to the Windows and Mac client (the Linux one lags a bit i believe), with the Mac version sometimes more advanced. Of course, that Gizmo is standards based figured heavily into my choice too.
  • BexTechBexTech Posts: 12,957
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    John_Elway wrote:
    Dude, keep it simple, you said my download limit was being 'gobbled up' . I said (more than once) that skype is on my PC 24hrs a day and I use it on average 3 hours a day and so far this month I have used 2.7gb of download, that's with two people using the same connection for surfing etc..

    So ... I was asking, is this your definition of 'gobbled up'??? :confused: Because it isn't mine.

    And as I just said neither does my crusty old laptop slow to a crawl - and I'm on it from 10am till 10pm everyday (stopping for food etc! lol) so I would notice.

    I'm just saying (again) I would like reasons that I can actually see for myself. Because everything I've read so far amounts to a regurgitation of opinions.

    Show me where my PC and service is being adversely affected and I'll switch right now.

    Read what was being said, after your previous laughable posts on the VoIP section, I'm not sure whether you are just pretending to be completely stupid, or really are completely stupid.
  • John_ElwayJohn_Elway Posts: 5,121
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    BexTech wrote:
    Read what was being said, after your previous laughable posts on the VoIP section, I'm not sure whether you are just pretending to be completely stupid, or really are completely stupid.

    There's no need to be rude. You have constantly been abusive saying everyone that uses skype must be a child etc. :rolleyes: And now, just because you are too embarrassed to admit that your phrase 'skype gobbles up download limits' wasn't actually true you're trying to change the subject :D

    Being behind a router, as rhetherington has explained, effects the supernode issue, not the download limit being used up as you suggested.

    All I have constantly repeated is PLEASE tell me why skype is so bad. And all you've done is got all in a tizz without attempting to explain anything. :rolleyes: You've not explained why all the things you've said about skype don't apply to me.

    If you'd bothered to read what I have said you've seen that I'm asking for information rather than wasting my time with a 'my bike is bigger than your bike' game. lol

    If someone gives you advice, you would normally check it out yourself (I hope), and that's all that has happened. Except when I asked why what you said doesn't apply to me you've got all excited. If you don't know the answers to my questions, all you have to do is say so. ;) I don't know, otherwise I wouldn't ask.

    And if me being behind a wireless router, which many people are, puts all your 'Skype is rubbish' reasons out of the window, then they really weren't very strong reasons in the first place were they?

    Shame. :(
  • BexTechBexTech Posts: 12,957
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    What the hell are you on, can you not see what I posted was EXACTLY the same as rhetherington.

    If you had bothered to read and then understand what I had written, then you wouldn't be making an even more of a fool of yourself than you have already done so.

    I will try and put it in to very simple words for you, as I can see you are struggling to read / understand.

    If you are not behind a NAT router then you are likely to become a supernode, when you become a supernode you are then using your bandwidth for others to make calls via, when you are in supernode mode you will be gobbling up up all your bandwidth.

    Skype can and does gobble your bandwidth, but if you are behind a NAT router then it won't.

    So there you go, none of what I wrote was rubbish, the only person who has ever posted rubbish so far on here about Skype is you.

    So stop behaving like a kid and act like an adult, unless you are a kid, then go off an learn to read and read up on SIP / Skype / P2P.

    Plus I have answered you several times, it's just that you don't want to listen, read what has been written completely differently or are just of low IQ.

    This will be the last time I respond to you, as you appear to just be a troll. :(:(
  • John_ElwayJohn_Elway Posts: 5,121
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    As I said:

    And if me being behind a wireless router, which many people are, puts all your 'Skype is rubbish' reasons out of the window, then they really weren't very strong reasons in the first place were they?

    ;)
  • John_ElwayJohn_Elway Posts: 5,121
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    BexTech wrote:

    So there you go, none of what I wrote was rubbish, the only person who has ever posted rubbish so far on here about Skype is you.

    All I've posted is that your reasons for skype being rubbish didn't apply to me. Was I not allowed to question that? lol

    Oh well.
  • John_ElwayJohn_Elway Posts: 5,121
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    Ok... in summary then for the chap that started this thread: there are loads of reasons not to use Skype, but if you have a wireless router, all those reasons seem to be invalid. Which was not mentioned when those reasons were given.

    Make your choice matey and have fun whatever you use.
  • SystemSystem Posts: 2,096,970
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    John_Elway wrote:
    Ok... in summary then for the chap that started this thread: there are loads of reasons not to use Skype, but if you have a wireless router, all those reasons seem to be invalid.

    Well the supernode issue wont effect someone behind NAT, although that person will still be contributing to someone else's bandwidth usage/bill.

    But there's also the issue of open vs proprietary standards.

    SIP is a set of open standards that anyone is free to implement, and it is what all the telecoms providers will eventually be using (so calls will be cheap or free between providers/people all over the world in a few years except between Skype and everyone else).

    Skype uses a closed, proprietary standard which only they can use, so if you go with Skype you lock yourself into them. Any hardware you buy will only work with Skype, necessitating the purchase of new equipment if you move to a SIP provider (which most people will have to eventually as SIP grows ever more popular), while any SIP equipment you have just requires a change in the settings.

    Returning to the supernode issue there's also the problem with scalability. With Skype you need these supernodes so if more people who are firewalled or NATed join up than supernode eligible machines you can get saturated or clogged networks and will be unable to use Skype properly. This problem also crops up as people discover they've been made into a supernode and either stop using Skype or firewall/NAT their machine (which removes them as a supernode plus now means they need to use someone else as a supernode too).
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 5,528
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    Just a small extra point about Skype (proprietary) versus SIP/RTP (open standards):

    At the moment Skype have done a great marketing exercise and have a fair slice of the "early adopter"s market for VOIP but all the big telecoms companies (BT, France Telecom, BelgaCom, Telefonica, Deutsche Telekom, et al) recognise that PSTN/POTS is on the way out and that in a few years time they'll no longer be making revenue from analogue voice calls. So they are all putting in infrastructure to handle VOIP (apart from anything else putting guaranteed QoS across their networks) and these systems are ALL SIP/RTP based so as they move to VOIP the proprietary Skype system will be a dwindling small fish in a big pond.

    It probaly doesn't matter for early adopters dabbling in the pond right now but long term the future is SIP/RTP and not Skype as even the might of ebay-paypal is probbaly not great enough to have a pissing competition against the big conglomerate telcos.

    Of course the other way that telecoms is transitioning is the movement to tripe/quadruple-play delivery and the big telecoms companies have the resources to deliver this but Skype don't (just try getting a Skype ADSL line into your house!) and right now it's all about "buying customers" which is kind of what Skype are attempting as well but they aren't going to be giving you things like IPTV in the package.

    Cliff
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,866
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    I don't understand what some of you are talking about. You resort to insults just because you don't agree with a supporter of skype :( So the only ones that look foolish and 'childish' are those that throw out the silly comments. No need to get so heated about it!! Geeze!! We are talking about some software that allows you to chat to people for free!! Skype does it beautifully and if you have had problems then you did not have the set up that myself, my friends, my family and extensive network of business colleagues do. I use skype nearly all day working from home with constant contact with clients. I have never had one problem.
  • John_ElwayJohn_Elway Posts: 5,121
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    thanks for the good (and nonabusive anti skype for the sake of it :rolleyes: ) explanations. I'm sure that's all that the guy who started this thread wanted, as I did.
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