Any idea how far back I have to search to find some posts on the 'actual' series ?? I've been back as far as page 23 and only seen bickering and insults flying around .
As with everything (in behaviour, teaching and learning especially) consistency between practitioners and parents, plus a clear set of expectations and consequences if those expectations are not met, is the key to seeing improvements in the students.
Sadly Thelma missed the boat on that.
Agreed, I'd say the same with the relationship between parent and child so they know if they do something not permitted, they will be punished. If Thelma treats her kids like that, I bet she's a pushover mum.
Intereseting that some of the mothers were there saying that a life as a wife was not enough and jobs area good idea.
So , as yet, we still don't really know what the "mothers" are doing all day , do we ?
I don't get why the young girls are pulled out of school at about 11 to simply spend all day cleanng , cooking and looking after the very young kids and babies .
(A long one!)
I've been following this thread with great interest since Page1 but wanted to leave posting until I had seen the whole series.
From the very start, I, like several others on here have been perplexed by Thelma Madine's motives for doing this series.
If she genuinely wanted to help these girls (and anyone would applaud the sentiments behind that) why not just be quietly philanthropic in private - why tell the world?
As 'Nico' appears to be thriving and successful, with more work than they can cope with (not to mention TM's apparent considerable personal wealth) does she really need the extra business that I'm guessing she hoped to generate from this series?
As a trained fashion designer/ couture seamstress and having worked in the clothing trade all my life, including running my own designer bridalwear business for over 10 years - btw they were vintage-style, not dresses like those - I was even more puzzled by the technical 'training' the girls were given, not to mention TM's total lack of recognition or appreciation of the hardworking, literate, quiet girls (Bridget, Grace & Samantha) who all showed promise, were eager to learn and would actually have been a huge asset to her business; I'd have snapped all three of them up before the ink had dried on their contracts!
Thelma showed a frightening lack of direction and business acumen for someone running a busy, successful set-up for so many years; the series showed her to display an extraordinary inability to make anything approaching sound, logical business decisions. She doesn't even seem to have a grasp of costs. I can only imagine that someone else must be the real 'brains' behind this outfit, possibly bezzy mate, Pauline?
Even taking into account the inevitable editing / set up / constraints of a tv programme, I still found it all very bizarre.
We may have our personal opinions on Thelma's dresses but it can't be denied that a huge amount of skill, time and hard work goes into them, especially the corsets which are incredibly complex to make and I think, would be rather fabulous with different, less meringue-like skirts.
It takes a great many years to learn these skills and this learning is an ongoing process; even after a lifetime of doing this kind of work, I'm always hungry to learn new aspects. You can't do anything approaching this in just a few weeks!
And no one could do this work at all unless they were passionate, open-minded and 100% dedicated to learning and listening.
I could understand the anger and frustration of some of Thelma's permanent staff when they could see that this was clearly not going to be the case with the majority of those girls who showed no respect for them, or for the dresses they would be working on (e.g. getting material caught under chairs, etc.)
It saddened me in the last episode that most of the girls were bored by their visit to the costume museum (let alone get inspired by the exhibits) and even got quite aggressive about being sent there They were really rude to the sewing teacher and couldn't even see the relevance of why they were there. Passionate, enthusiastic fashion students (that they should have been the equivalent of) would have considered this a treat. I still would.
In all the workrooms I've ever worked in, a newbie would start off in a sort of apprentice role - watching the experienced seamstresses at work, learning skills from them, learning how to use the (potentially hazardous) equipment safely and correctly - a skill in itself; machine-sewing isn't as easy as it looks; practising, practising, practising what they'd learned and getting into it gradually.
(Yes and that even includes picking up pins/making the tea!)
This all takes years, not 6 weeks.
Oh, and 'proper' couture workrooms do not attach beads with glue ! :rolleyes:
Neither should someone new to this work, begin on lycra fabric! I imagine Thelma must have had a job lot of turquoise and pink to get rid of, but this is probably the very worst material for a learner to work on, as not only does it slip and slide all over the place when cutting it out, but it also requires a special machine for stretch fabrics, which it didn't look like the girls were using.
Why did they not practice making things on some of the fabric Thelma actually uses for the dresses? No one is saying this should be real silk but it looked like there were plenty of rolls of the cheaper synthetics on the shelves.
And whatever happened to basic workroom practice, let alone safety?
If anyone had turned up in any workroom I've ever worked in, wearing a diamante bikini - not that anyone would in the real world - they'd either have been handed an overall to wear, or sent home.
You can't have people dressed like that if they're going anywhere near industrial machinery and steam irons, etc which are HOT! One can only hope that TM has good liability insurance for her own sake.
I was disgusted by the lack of respect that some of the girls showed to the staff, and even more than this, Thelma's lack of support for her own staff - she should have immediately (and permanently) sacked anyone who verbally abused any member of her team, or any of the tutors - yes, even her little darlings, Victoria, Margaret & LilyAnn. :rolleyes:
I think the sewing tutor, who came over as quite likeable, showed almost saint-like restraint; I'd have been sorely tempted to smack that cocky little hypocrite LilyAnn for retorting the decidedly unChristian, 'Go **** yourself.' Charming. And that from someone who throws up her hands in horror at the word 'penis.'
Now for Thelma's rather odd selections towards the end of the 'course.'
First of all, she shows no support whatsoever for Bridget, one of the best, keenest girls and hardest workers who has helped the others (she says in her blog that the reason her dress - unfairly criticised by Thelma- wasn't brilliant, was because she'd spent her time helping the others.) Far from supporting her, and after having a go at her for not dressing like a pole dancer, Thelma simply allows Bridget to walk out in tears when she has done nothing wrong. I didn't notice Thelma showing her the same favouritism; driving miles to her home to try and get her back and inviting her to stay at her house as she did with Margaret.
Far from that, the remarks Thelma wrote about Bridget on Twitter were totally disgraceful and she should be ashamed of herself.
Next, when Thelma decides which girls will best represent the company at the traveller wedding, does she choose Grace, whose potential as an impressive representative for her business would be obvious to anyone but an idiot? No, instead she chooses Kathleen and Shannon. (I think she originally wanted that dreadful Victoria :eek: but I believe she was on suspension at the time, so Thelma opted for Kathleen instead- perhaps someone can correct this bit if it's wrong?)
I actually think Shannon turned herself around and started to work hard towards the end - she seemed really interested to learn and showed flair; she also started showing more maturity than many of the older girls.
Now we come to the final selection. To my utter amazement (even I, great cynic that I had become, would not have guessed this one) Victoria :eek: is the first name on Thelma's lips for permanent employment! That she could not take up the position is hardly the point. In what possible way did appallingly-behaved Victoria :eek: show any aptitude or enthusiasm for the job or even an ounce of awareness that anyone else existed apart from herself?
I have a feeling that Grace only said didn't want the job, as she was intelligent enough to realise that since she was not one of Thelma's pets, she had no chance.
Now, Samantha, the 'invisible' Romany traveller, whatever happened with her?
As she was totally ignored throughout the series, what was the point of her being in it? I wanted to know more about her. Why did we get no insight whatsoever into her life?
I would have thought Samantha was an ideal employee - diligent worker, really wanted the job, eager to learn, reliable, flair for sewing, quiet, polite, well-spoken.
As for Roseanne, what employer in their right mind would choose someone who rolls up for work only when they feel like getting out of bed? (Answer: Thelma apparently, but there again....)
OK, Shannon = not too bad a choice
Kathleen/Megan = ditto but there were better /more deserving candidates to choose from.
Roseanne = making progress with your alphabet is not the best reason to employ someone.
Unless Thelma Madine is planning to apply for charity status, nothing connected with this project made any sense to me at all.
(By the way, someone asked about the push-up effects of those corsets. A properly-constructed, custom-made boned corset will produce that push-up effect because it supports the ribcage. This is more difficult or impossible to achieve with a bra, as the ribcage support isn't there. You wouldn't need gel inserts with a boned corset that has been made to measure for you.)
They may not understand how we use those words without an issue and find the swear word offensive. That said it should have been made clear that if they carry on like that from any 'country' workplace, they could end up being fired. Thelma's staff seemed to make it pass by and at a handful of times, encouraged it themselves.
I watched the final episode last night and as someone else said, it just summed up was an inept employer Thelma is. It just seems that she's made money through the work the gypsies give her and for putting up with things that other people wouldn't - hence the income. Admittedly I can't say she doesn't have a skill or all the outfits she produces is awful, but there's little professionalism in it at all.
I felt for the male taxi driver, he may have been wrong to use that word (I didn't know it was so offensive, I just thought it was a nickname - not that I use it anyway) but why Thelma was so shocked when she read his facebook comments was just so fake. It didn't surprise me at all.
Best of luck to Grace, Bridget and the one who was picked ( forgotten he rname, she had a spat with Victoria when she started). They seemed to have a better attitude to life, career and working for it than the others.
The taxi driver was an idiot on so many levels , adding the young girls as FaceBook friends for one , slagging them off on is FaceBook page , referring to them as " pikey rats" plus a few other things . Should have been sacked , I reckon.
For me what Thelma said at the end about letting her heart rule her head sums up the whole series. There were a few girls in that group who kept their heads down, learnt the trade and really grasped the opportunity however this clearly didn't matter. Thelma chose girls who she wanted to Mother and clearly thought she could change in the long term. Employing a girl who cant be bothered to get out of bed on a Friday when you are paying for her a tutor? really sensible decision. It will be interesting to see if they do a revisit episode to see what actually happens in the next few months.
I've quoted but not quoted you just for space, but I pretty much agree with all you've said.
Thelma does seem clueless as a manager and in everything to do with the running of the business. Maybe her daughter is holding a lot together for her.
I'd like to have seen more of the actual sewing to figure out just what they were learning. But I agree, you can't learn that sort of work in a few weeks. I'm a corsetmaker doing mostly bespoke work (like you, a million miles away from that type of dress) and I wouldn't trust most of that lot to cut my boning to the right length, let alone cut, sew and fit an accurate corset.
I must admit, I've been sceptical of her dresses from the first though. All those huge skirts they couldn't walk in. She seems to be using more hoops now, but in the earlier BFGW shows the underskirts were solid net and they couldn't even move their legs. The amount of glue doesn't surprise me either. I'd expect it anyway when they're using so many crystals as actual hand beading would take the prices into the stratosphere. But there seems to be a lot of glueing on of flowers and trims.
Yes, the lycra, that puzzled me too.
There seemed to be a lot of exaggeration going on in this series . Figures of 300 hours work for a dress , prices of £15,000 for a dress , a couple of times they mentioned that the dresses weighed 13 stone !! How come the last dress for the traveller girl was carried one handed in one big bag by Thelma with one of the girls carrying the train separately ?
Ive just finished watching the last episode on 4od and seriously I cannot believe Thelma wanted to hire Victoria!!
The way she behaved earlier in the series threatening to kill that other girl was disgraceful, what an arrogant gobby person!! Who on earth would want to hire someone who behaves (at their work place as well!) like that. I couldn't stand the sight of her by the last episode tbh.
The only one of the remaining 7 I liked was Grace, I think its fair to say if more travelers behaved in an appropriate way like she did people wouldn't have such bad opinions of them!! I hope she has got bk into education like she wanted to.
I also quite liked Bridget and it was a shame no one really stood up for her!
The taxi driver was stupid. He was understandably angry and sounding off, but he shouldn't have been so daft to say that, and on facebook where he'd added Grace and presumably other travellers. The really aggravating thing was the smug expression on Victoria and co's faces. He was in the right before and justified in his anger and he allowed himself to be cornered into being in the wrong and having to apologise.
The accusation to the other driver was just ridiculous and Lillianne just did not like being got the better of.
It did all feel to me like revenge for the original complaint about their behaviour and the suspension. I'd hope Grace would be better than that and that her offence was genuine, but it just seemed awfully co-incidental and rather like closing ranks to get their own back. It was stated he was friends with a lot of the community, and he'd added Grace on FB so I'm sure she was capable of telling him directly he was out of order, especially when she knew the girls could've lost him his livelihood.
Of course, that wouldn't make such good TV.
Why on earth did he add any of the young girls to his FaceBook anyway !? Just so risky and unprofessional , he's also married as well isn't he ?
There seemed to be a lot of exaggeration going on in this series . Figures of 300 hours work for a dress , prices of £15,000 for a dress , a couple of times they mentioned that the dresses weighed 13 stone !! How come the last dress for the traveller girl was carried one handed in one big bag by Thelma with one of the girls carrying the train separately ?
I assumed that the weight of the dresses included the layers of petticoats that go underneath, therefore they'd only weigh 13 stones when the girls were wearing them along with the petticoats.
Comments
Agreed, I'd say the same with the relationship between parent and child so they know if they do something not permitted, they will be punished. If Thelma treats her kids like that, I bet she's a pushover mum.
So , as yet, we still don't really know what the "mothers" are doing all day , do we ?
I don't get why the young girls are pulled out of school at about 11 to simply spend all day cleanng , cooking and looking after the very young kids and babies .
Fantastic post !
The taxi driver was an idiot on so many levels , adding the young girls as FaceBook friends for one , slagging them off on is FaceBook page , referring to them as " pikey rats" plus a few other things . Should have been sacked , I reckon.
Now that would be interesting )
There seemed to be a lot of exaggeration going on in this series . Figures of 300 hours work for a dress , prices of £15,000 for a dress , a couple of times they mentioned that the dresses weighed 13 stone !! How come the last dress for the traveller girl was carried one handed in one big bag by Thelma with one of the girls carrying the train separately ?
The way she behaved earlier in the series threatening to kill that other girl was disgraceful, what an arrogant gobby person!! Who on earth would want to hire someone who behaves (at their work place as well!) like that. I couldn't stand the sight of her by the last episode tbh.
The only one of the remaining 7 I liked was Grace, I think its fair to say if more travelers behaved in an appropriate way like she did people wouldn't have such bad opinions of them!! I hope she has got bk into education like she wanted to.
I also quite liked Bridget and it was a shame no one really stood up for her!
Why on earth did he add any of the young girls to his FaceBook anyway !? Just so risky and unprofessional , he's also married as well isn't he ?
I assumed that the weight of the dresses included the layers of petticoats that go underneath, therefore they'd only weigh 13 stones when the girls were wearing them along with the petticoats.