The Newsroom - Season Two - (UK Pace)

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  • srhDSsrhDS Posts: 2,063
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    yeah, I hadn't remember anything about doctored tapes from the season opener. Comments out of context do get missed easily. Will watch the season again to catch all these bits.

    Looking forward to the next episode, we should be getting the hair cut in full context then surely....
  • circlebro2019circlebro2019 Posts: 17,560
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    srhDS wrote: »
    yeah, I hadn't remember anything about doctored tapes from the season opener. Comments out of context do get missed easily. Will watch the season again to catch all these bits.

    Looking forward to the next episode, we should be getting the hair cut in full context then surely....

    im glad i missed it too,made the scene where he couldn't get his answer and the subsequent doctoring that much better imo.
  • slouchingthatchslouchingthatch Posts: 2,351
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    NoEntry2k wrote: »
    True. But it was known he was cast in ‘The Crazy Ones’ before the first episode of this season of The Newsroom had even been broadcast over here, so it was fairly clear he wouldn’t be in this for very long. I had completely forgotten that we had already been told about the doctored tape in the first episode though, I must pay more attention! :)
    Easily missed as we're jumping between timelines!

    I only discovered he'd been cast in The Crazy Ones recently, mind you. I'm still amused by the fact he's only recently appeared in season 3 of The Big C (although that was screened in the US well over a year ago).
  • slouchingthatchslouchingthatch Posts: 2,351
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    srhDS wrote: »
    Looking forward to the next episode, we should be getting the hair cut in full context then surely....
    You'd have to hope so, although frankly I can't stand Maggie as a character. I'm very much Team Sloan.
  • orangesmartieorangesmartie Posts: 3,709
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    srhDS wrote: »
    The story is emerging from the mist of a scattered timeline. As I had never heard of any story of US troops using sarin gas it was likely that Genoa was a false story.
    The big part of the story yet to unfold is the confrontation between Jerry and Maggie. How does Maggie know it's not true? She wasn't in the room to hear what the General said. Perhaps she has a copy of the raw footage? Unlikely otherwise there would be no reason for Jerry to question Maggie's character. More likely she saw the raw footage and then it's her word verus Jerry's. Why did this all cause Maggie to cut her hair? Perhaps she's gone to AA and part of this fresh start was a new look?

    Also where did all these other leads come from? Was there an Operation Genoa that used normal tear gas which some people took to be sarin? There did seem to be a lot of evidence (circumstantial though) pointing towards the story.

    I think the whole Operation Genoa storyline is a mirror of Operation Tailwind http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Tailwind
  • slouchingthatchslouchingthatch Posts: 2,351
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    Bye bye, Jerry. Close the door on your way out.

    It didn't quite pull it off completely, but this was a pretty decent effort to pay off the whole Genoa arc and illustrate the many ways in which even the most diligent of news teams can get something wrong when someone chooses to mislead them.

    I did have a few quibbles though. Why were people taking Jerry's lawsuit so seriously and assuming that a court would view it as institutional failure? Jerry's doctoring of Stomtonovich's interview was a clearly unethical act. Surely that should have been the end of it?

    Also, was I the only one who thought that Shep's actions were a teensy bit disproprtionate? I get that he was angry as a grieving father, but to feed deliberate misinformation to bring down an entire news network - really?

    Finally - Jane Fonda ROCKS. At last, someone sees sense and decides not to kow-tow to Jerry. You go, Leona.

    Anyhow, a good resolution to set up some redemption in the last two episodes. It just wasn't quite as great as it might have been,

    My weekly review:
    http://slouchingtowardstv.com/2013/10/14/the-newsroom-s2-ep7-red-team-iii/
  • Mel GMel G Posts: 5,253
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    I loved this episode - particularly the final scenes. My teenage daughter - who has no real idea of who Jane Fonda is - watched it with her mouth wide open, and followed the credits with a single 'Wow'.

    As for Shep; I agree that it was a bit of a sledgehammer to crack a nut - but then grief and a need for revenge can get out of control. As for the network's concern about institutional failure; was it that there were insufficient checks and balances in place to prevent Jerry getting away with doctoring the footage that was the issue? I need to watch the episode again - was the fact that Jerry conducted the intervew alone and also edited the footage alone a factor? Would his case be based on the fact although he got that wrong, so many other things were missed and assumptions made and yet he was the only one that was fired? Soooo much to take in!!!!

    Off to read slouchingthatch's review...............
  • CD93CD93 Posts: 13,939
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    The lawsuit was mocked by Don. He directly addressed that it was something of a joke. The case was based on the rest of the news division missing what the audience had already worked out. There was a lot of "I trust you" when it came to running Genoa. The spy source was a bit of nonsense but then it's entertainment. Most importantly, Sorkin entertainment - so fantasy is the order of the day.
  • circlebro2019circlebro2019 Posts: 17,560
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    what a brilliant episode! s2 has been more of a package deal than s1, made up of lots of good episodes whereas s1 had some amazing ones. however yesterdays episode ranks right up there with some of the best from s1 imo. 10/10.

    they tied up all of Genoa's loose ends perfectly and it felt like a feature length movie rather than 60 min tv episode to me.

    back and forth between jerry and the red team was great, he is a really good actor.

    and that last scene was probably the best ending the show has had yet

    "we have lost the viewers trust!"

    "THEN GET IT BACK"

    amazing.
  • slouchingthatchslouchingthatch Posts: 2,351
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    Mel G wrote: »
    I loved this episode - particularly the final scenes. My teenage daughter - who has no real idea of who Jane Fonda is - watched it with her mouth wide open, and followed the credits with a single 'Wow'.

    As for Shep; I agree that it was a bit of a sledgehammer to crack a nut - but then grief and a need for revenge can get out of control. As for the network's concern about institutional failure; was it that there were insufficient checks and balances in place to prevent Jerry getting away with doctoring the footage that was the issue? I need to watch the episode again - was the fact that Jerry conducted the intervew alone and also edited the footage alone a factor? Would his case be based on the fact although he got that wrong, so many other things were missed and assumptions made and yet he was the only one that was fired? Soooo much to take in!!!!

    Off to read slouchingthatch's review...............
    Jerry's contention was that he was not the only one at fault for Genoa - although he WAS the only one who deliberately perpetrated a falsehood. You cannot knowingly edit an interview out of context like that - we had the example of Maggie accidentally doing that with the Trayvon Martin 911 tape a couple of weeks back, and that caused a HUGE ruckus and an immediate correction. It's unethical, deceitful and a sackable offence (unless you work for a tabloid ...)

    It did feel a lot like he was hanging out enough lines in the hope that it would scare/embarrass AWM into settling out of court for fear of being tagged with institutional failre as the "big, bad corporate". He played on Don and Maggie's former relationship, why Jim went to follow the Romney campaign, Mac's leading questions and a general lack of rigour and fail-safes in the entire process.

    And yet it was Jerry who constantly pushed to run with the story immediately. It was Mac and Charlie who advised caution and who insisted on three separate red team meetings. In that final meeting, Jerry shouted down every counter-argument rather than listening objectively.

    Ultimately, Leona saw through all that - as did Rebecca, really, whose job was as much to play devil's advocate as anything - and put her foot down. That scene was spectacular. :)

    I'm no expert, but for me the biggest failure on the part of the core ACN team was the final interview with Valenzuela. It was what finally convinced Charlie - from what we saw, Mac did ask some leading questions, but as Will points out sometimes you have to do that with a reluctant interviewee - Will has done it on the air often enough!

    Ultimately though, the story would never have seen the light of day if not for Jerry's doctored interview and Shep's planted helo manifest.

    It was a great lesson in why media organisations need to have more rather than fewer checks and balances in a world where journos have taken to using Twitter as an initial source of news in the constant race to get stories out as quickly as possible. ACN took a year to produce the Genoa story, had multiple sources, and still made a horrendous mistake. It makes you wonder how many stories get suppressed in real-life newsrooms simply because they don't meet all the necessary criteria, even though those involved in the story suspect it's probably true. Strong suspicion - which is what Jerry had here, no more - does not equal proof.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,076
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    Loved it, loved it, loved it.

    A couple of flaws I guess if you want to nitpick, but that was my favourite episode to date.
    whedon247 wrote: »
    they tied up all of Genoa's loose ends perfectly and it felt like a feature length movie rather than 60 min tv episode to me.

    Totally agree.
  • circlebro2019circlebro2019 Posts: 17,560
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    i will be devastated if there isn't a season 3.
  • batdude_uk1batdude_uk1 Posts: 78,722
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    I am just going to say this now, I have never been so gripped by a tv show, as I was by this episode, everything about it was very well done indeed.

    I loved Will's little antidotes in the meetings, and the end scene, just great, it flew past, and made me really want to watch the next episode RIGHT NOW God damn it!
  • srhDSsrhDS Posts: 2,063
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    What a cracking episode. The dialogue was sparkling, especially between Don and Rebecca. You really have to pay attention as it's so quick with the back and forth. As good as any West Wing episode.
    Loved the quote (slightly paraphrasing) "Apart from that Mrs Lincoln, it was a great story" :)

    So now we know the argument between Jerry and Maggie, he claims she was there when the General said "It happened" off camera. She is obviously (and correctly) denying it. This is Jerry clasping at straws.
    He really wants the $5m pay out and will use Maggie (or anyone) to leverage this. I guess he sees her as a weak link in the chain after the trip to Africa, its ensuing drinking etc and her public humiliation on youtube and the fact she was involved with Don and (sort of) Jim.

    Although still no hair cut...
  • AmbassadorAmbassador Posts: 22,332
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    Absolutely sparkling Sorkin.

    That was immense
  • slouchingthatchslouchingthatch Posts: 2,351
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    srhDS wrote: »
    So now we know the argument between Jerry and Maggie, he claims she was there when the General said "It happened" off camera. She is obviously (and correctly) denying it. This is Jerry clasping at straws.
    He really wants the $5m pay out and will use Maggie (or anyone) to leverage this. I guess he sees her as a weak link in the chain after the trip to Africa, its ensuing drinking etc and her public humiliation on youtube and the fact she was involved with Don and (sort of) Jim.

    Although still no hair cut...

    A small correction ... We knew about the Jerry/Maggie difference of opinion already - that was mentioned in dialogue in the Uganda episode during Maggie's deposition. As we saw last week, Stomtonovich said "It happened" just as Maggie was walking out of the room. She clearly didn't hear it - Jerry assumed she did.

    As for Maggie's hair, who knows what's going on with that?!? We know she has the red hair at the time of the depositions - and we know from last night that Don's deposition and the Leona scene take place the day before the US General Election - which dates that timeline at November 5th 2012.

    But in the Genoa timeline, as you say, she still has long, blonde hair. That timeline ends with the retraction, which was on the same day as the Benghazi attack - September 11th 2012.

    So she goes for the extreme haircut some time between 11/9 and 5/11? Why? I'm still puzzled why she didn't do it straight after the Uganda trauma. Maybe it's just delayed PTSD? Who knows? (More importantly, who still cares?!?)
  • MARTYM8MARTYM8 Posts: 44,710
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    So she goes for the extreme haircut some time between 11/9 and 5/11? Why? I'm still puzzled why she didn't do it straight after the Uganda trauma. Maybe it's just delayed PTSD? Who knows? (More importantly, who still cares?!?)

    All this focus on Maggie's hair but none on how Jim's looks different this season. More messy and more gel.

    I am more curious about his hairstyle change.

    Presumably they will be back on soon as they both need to find a decent hairstylist?:D:D
  • circlebro2019circlebro2019 Posts: 17,560
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    "what happened to maggies hair?"is bigger than "who shot JR?"!!!!
  • batdude_uk1batdude_uk1 Posts: 78,722
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    whedon247 wrote: »
    "what happened to maggies hair?"is bigger than "who shot JR?"!!!!

    But not quite as big as "Who shot Mr Burns!" ;)
  • srhDSsrhDS Posts: 2,063
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    A small correction ... We knew about the Jerry/Maggie difference of opinion already

    We knew there was a difference of opinion but not the circumstances, ie did she see the raw footage and turn him in or what. Now we know that he claims the General said "It Happened" and that Maggie should have heard it.
    Of course he didn't say it and she wasn't even in the room anyhow.
  • Mel GMel G Posts: 5,253
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    So glad it's not just my family who are still obsessing over Maggie's hair! I do hope there's some resolution - it's driving us all bonkers trying to work out whether she cut it once or twice, how many times she dyed it, whether she's discovered some new wonder-shampoo which makes hair grow about thee inches per month.............perhaps we all need to get out more?!
  • Mark AMark A Posts: 7,687
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    Not sure I bought Jane Fonda's sudden reversal after last season's attempts at getting rid of them all. I hope there's more to that angle than the simple need of Sorkin to get them out of a hole.

    Still excellent TV though, no matter what.

    Regards

    Mark
  • srhDSsrhDS Posts: 2,063
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    Mark A wrote: »
    Not sure I bought Jane Fonda's sudden reversal after last season's attempts at getting rid of them all. I hope there's more to that angle than the simple need of Sorkin to get them out of a hole.

    Still excellent TV though, no matter what.

    Regards

    Mark

    It's not that sudden. There is over a year between these events. The revelation of her son hacking phones shocked her and she no longer sees the news team in such a bad light.
  • slouchingthatchslouchingthatch Posts: 2,351
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    MARTYM8 wrote: »
    All this focus on Maggie's hair but none on how Jim's looks different this season. More messy and more gel.

    I am more curious about his hairstyle change.

    Presumably they will be back on soon as they both need to find a decent hairstylist?:D:D
    It's his hair? I thought it was some kind of dead animal?!? :-)
  • slouchingthatchslouchingthatch Posts: 2,351
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    srhDS wrote: »
    We knew there was a difference of opinion but not the circumstances, ie did she see the raw footage and turn him in or what. Now we know that he claims the General said "It Happened" and that Maggie should have heard it.
    Of course he didn't say it and she wasn't even in the room anyhow.
    To clarify, we didn't have the exact circumstances until last week, but we did already know the point in dispute revolved around the words "It happened" from Maggie's deposition (in Unintended Consequences). As it turned out, Maggie *was* in the room, but on her way out so that it's plausible that Jerry believed she heard it and equally plausible that she didn't because she was almost out of the room as he said it.

    From http://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk/view_episode_scripts.php?tv-show=the-newsroom&episode=s02e04

    Rebecca has already mentioned that they're talking about the interview with the general in March 2012.

    Rebecca: Your testimony revolves around two words.
    Maggie: It happened.
    Rebecca: It happened.
    Maggie: The general didn't say that.
    Rebecca: Okay.
    Maggie: And even if he had, he never said it on the tape.
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