The iPad range (and iPhones) will always run smoother on lower spec hardware as they do less.
A Nexus 7 'out of the box' is incredibly smooth. Add some widgets and some other 'push' stuff and you will start to see the performance drop very slightly.
Apple OS is just an app launcher really. Sure it has a few 'Apple managed' apps always on but they are fairly limited. For example look at how impressive Google Now is on Android devices but how much less so it is on Apple hardware.
The above is not a dig. Its an observation. Two different 'routes' taken by two different companies.
With one company you can end up paying more than twice the price for lower spec hardware.
Compare the Nexus devices to their equivalent 'i' devices and you will tend to see lower res screens, slower chips and less connectivity. Yet Apple will charge you twice as much !
Why ? Because there are still people out there that will pay it !
In the past Apple owners claimed it was all down to the higher res, more apps, better hardware.
Now they seem to rely on:
- the lower res screen still looks better ?
- there are more Apps that Apple make you pay for again specifically for tablets ???
- Apple dont 'need' better hardware.
There are very few markets where such devotion would take place. To all those of you who state they buy Apple because "its pretty" or because they are "financially tied into the Apple world" or even "I just like Apple stuff" I salute you as thats a fair and honest reason.
Anything else is just "meh!" .....
Love 'em or hate 'em you cant be critical of Apples business sense (in recent years) ..... theyve stashes away a lot of money from their customers Its almost as if all those 'premium components' dont actually cost that much after all
(obviously all of the above is JUST my OPINION and I expect the usual suspects to rip it to shreds with their own OPINIONS )
This is a mobile computing, so a compromise must be made between a battery life, hardware, and performance. Google lets you hang as many bells and whistles on a poor processor as you like. The result is lagging, because a computing power is limited. Apple limits a workload to not overtax the processor. Take your pick. I prefer a smoothly running system.
This is a mobile computing, so a compromise must be made between a battery life, hardware, and performance. Google lets you hang as many bells and whistles on a poor processor as you like. The result is lagging, because a computing power is limited. Apple limits a workload to not overtax the processor. Take your pick. I prefer a smoothly running system.
Correct, but I'm not so sure lagging issues with Android, especially in the past, were due to excessive demands on the hardware.
With one company you can end up paying more than twice the price for lower spec hardware.
Compare the Nexus devices to their equivalent 'i' devices and you will tend to see lower res screens, slower chips and less connectivity. Yet Apple will charge you twice as much !
Why ? Because there are still people out there that will pay it !
In the past Apple owners claimed it was all down to the higher res, more apps, better hardware.
Now they seem to rely on:
- the lower res screen still looks better ?
- there are more Apps that Apple make you pay for again specifically for tablets ???
- Apple dont 'need' better hardware.
There are very few markets where such devotion would take place. To all those of you who state they buy Apple because "its pretty" or because they are "financially tied into the Apple world" or even "I just like Apple stuff" I salute you as thats a fair and honest reason.
Anything else is just "meh!" .....
There are many more reasons to buy an Apple product than you stated.
When you compare a Nexus 7 to iPad mini the build quality is a stark difference, for example. Other examples are:
The longest battery life of any small tablet
A 4:3 screen that allows you to see more of a web page
The best third party accessories support
The best customer service and tech support in the industry
The best resale value
Outstanding integration with Apple's other products
AirPlay
Typically higher quality apps
Typically apps being released first on iOS
A huge amount of *tablet* apps compared to Android
An easier to use interface
Proper and continuous OS and device updates
4G LTE
And unless you compare benchmarks comparing differences in hardware is rather meaningless.
Are Google and Apple giving out tablets to people who sell them best in the thread?
For me it seems very simple:
Do you want to pay £400+ for a tablet? Yes - buy an ipad, No, buy a Nexus.
I was looking on here for people's opinions on tablets as I'm considering buying my first. I've learnt nothing useful.
For what it's worth, phone-wise I've moved from iphone to galaxy S4 and I'm very happy with my decision. I'm one of those people who don't like being locked in to the whims of Apple (see podcast seperation from music. why????????). I will either buy a nexus or a galaxy tab 3. I like the tab as has removable storage at a cheap price but am aware that performance will be limited. This doesn't bother me. I have a laptop for heavy duty stuff. I just want a tablet to watch and read stuff on trains/planes and general internet browsing. As far as I can see, both Apple and Android tablets can provide this. Then, unless you are concerned with appearance, it boils down to price. My decision is Android, some will choose Apple. Debating over which is 'better' is a fairly redundant exercise.
There are many more reasons to buy an Apple product than you stated.
When you compare a Nexus 7 to iPad mini the build quality is a stark difference, for example. Other examples are:
The longest battery life of any small tablet
A 4:3 screen that allows you to see more of a web page
The best third party accessories support
The best customer service and tech support in the industry
The best resale value
Outstanding integration with Apple's other products
AirPlay
Typically higher quality apps
Typically apps being released first on iOS
A huge amount of *tablet* apps compared to Android
An easier to use interface
Proper and continuous OS and device updates
4G LTE
And unless you compare benchmarks comparing differences in hardware is rather meaningless.
Interesting list.
Battery life ? I'll believe you rather than googling all tablets. Much to do with lower spec (fewer pixels) and lower functionality (widgets and push notifications etc).
4:3 screen we will agree to disagree on. I prefer 16:9 and even apple have moved that way (ish) with the iPhone now.
Accessories - fair enough If you like that sort of thing. I see Bluetooth connectivity lessening this benefit over the next few years though.
Customer service ? Mixed reviews these days. A shadow of their former selves ?
Integration ? My nexus devices are just as integrated I would say .....
Airplay ???? Really ?????? I see your airplay and raise you DLNA ....
higher quality apps ? Maybe historically but less so now....
Apps released on iOS first ? Again this is becoming less the case.
Tablet apps ? But ALL android apps scale to tablet without the need for paying for a second tablet version ! Loads also have tablet modes built in allowing different functionality. Buy one get both modes. Android doesn't need two versions .....
Easy interface ? You say easy i say dull and basic
OS updates ? My nexus devices get FULL updates not some hobbled version with the best new features removed
4G us only needed if you can't tether to your 4G phone. Never understood the idea of buying a monthly fee for a tablet but .....
Anyway. You make a few good points and all credit to you for actually considering your purchase rather than simply buying it because if the logo
Battery life ? I'll believe you rather than googling all tablets. Much to do with lower spec (fewer pixels) and lower functionality (widgets and push notifications etc).
4:3 screen we will agree to disagree on. I prefer 16:9 and even apple have moved that way (ish) with the iPhone now.
Accessories - fair enough If you like that sort of thing. I see Bluetooth connectivity lessening this benefit over the next few years though.
Customer service ? Mixed reviews these days. A shadow of their former selves ?
Integration ? My nexus devices are just as integrated I would say .....
Airplay ???? Really ?????? I see your airplay and raise you DLNA ....
higher quality apps ? Maybe historically but less so now....
Apps released on iOS first ? Again this is becoming less the case.
Tablet apps ? But ALL android apps scale to tablet without the need for paying for a second tablet version ! Loads also have tablet modes built in allowing different functionality. Buy one get both modes. Android doesn't need two versions .....
Easy interface ? You say easy i say dull and basic
OS updates ? My nexus devices get FULL updates not some hobbled version with the best new features removed
4G us only needed if you can't tether to your 4G phone. Never understood the idea of buying a monthly fee for a tablet but .....
Anyway. You make a few good points and all credit to you for actually considering your purchase rather than simply buying it because if the logo
I was looking on here for people's opinions on tablets as I'm considering buying my first. I've learnt nothing useful.
How is that possible? There is plenty of information provided in this thread and others. Take what people have said and research the subject further and confirm, or not, what has been said. Why ask for advice and opinions if all you are going to do is trash them?
Battery life ? I'll believe you rather than googling all tablets. Much to do with lower spec (fewer pixels) and lower functionality (widgets and push notifications etc).
Negative. The iPad 4 along with the Nexus 10 perform about equally. Some benchmarks favor the Nexus 10 and some favor the iPad 4, but the iPad has significantly longer battery life. You need to stop thinking "spec" and compare benchmarks and over all responsiveness and smoothness.
4:3 screen we will agree to disagree on. I prefer 16:9 and even apple have moved that way (ish) with the iPhone now.
Two different form factors for two different usage cases so you can't compare the iPhone to the iPad. The 4:3 screen is not just a matter of preference since the 4:3 does in fact show more of a web page.
Accessories - fair enough If you like that sort of thing. I see Bluetooth connectivity lessening this benefit over the next few years though.
It's not a matter of me liking that since most people would see that as a big advantage. Accessories are also not limited to Bluetooth connectivity. Things like the availability of cases has nothing to do with Bluetooth. Bluetooth speakers are also a different thing compare to AirPlay speaker.
Customer service ? Mixed reviews these days. A shadow of their former selves ?
The fact that you have to ask "a shadow of their former selves" shows you don't know what you are talking about. Apple has led the industry in customer service and tech support for many years, and still does.
Tablet apps ? But ALL android apps scale to tablet without the need for paying for a second tablet version ! Loads also have tablet modes built in allowing different functionality. Buy one get both modes. Android doesn't need two versions ....
LOL. A blown up phone app is not a tablet app. Actual tablet functionality in one Android app file is rarely utilized by developers.
.
If you believe that then you don't understand the concept of getting what you pay for.
£400 is a hell of a lot of money to pay if you are not going to use it reguarly, whatever the quality of the product. I would not recommend someone pay that money if they were to use it several times a week. If you are going to use it more, depending on what you use it for, then it could be considered worth it. Whilst I was admitedly being fairly mischievous with my post, I think price is a valid point. Personally, it is more important to me than which has a slightly better resolution.
How is that possible? There is plenty of information provided in this thread and others. Take what people have said and research the subject further and confirm, or not, what has been said. Why ask for advice and opinions if all you are going to do is trash them?
In fairness to myself, I didn't ask for anything, at least out loud! However, what I meant by my comment, is that there will always be people who are firmly in the Apple camp such as yourself, and people who are firmly in the Nexus/Android camp. I'd love to hear more from people who have tried both.
That doesn't even make any sense for surely there are signiffcant and factual differences between the two.
Whilst there are differences between the two devices, on the very basic level of providing video playback and internet browsing which is what I said I would use one for, both devices offer this to a barely distinguishable standard, thus making the debate over which is better redundant. Again, this all goes back to what you use it for and how much you are going to use it. I think this is where different devices will suit different people.
Why does it always have to turn into a battle between Android and Apple fans? It's like being in the playground again 'my dads bigger than your dad' etc
Why does it always have to turn into a battle between Android and Apple fans? It's like being in the playground again 'my dads bigger than your dad' etc
I don't see the "battle" you are seeing. People are simply giving their opinions of both systems.
£400 is a hell of a lot of money to pay if you are not going to use it reguarly, whatever the quality of the product. I would not recommend someone pay that money if they were to use it several times a week. If you are going to use it more, depending on what you use it for, then it could be considered worth it. Whilst I was admitedly being fairly mischievous with my post, I think price is a valid point. Personally, it is more important to me than which has a slightly better resolution.
The differences between the two systems is significantly more than "slightly better resolution."
In fairness to myself, I didn't ask for anything, at least out loud! However, what I meant by my comment, is that there will always be people who are firmly in the Apple camp such as yourself, and people who are firmly in the Nexus/Android camp. I'd love to hear more from people who have tried both.
Wrong, I objectively evaluate all products and then determine what is best, and especially for my needs. I have tried both and all my comments are based on that experience, as well as the experience of many people I know that continue to use Android.
Whilst there are differences between the two devices, on the very basic level of providing video playback and internet browsing which is what I said I would use one for, both devices offer this to a barely distinguishable standard, thus making the debate over which is better redundant. Again, this all goes back to what you use it for and how much you are going to use it. I think this is where different devices will suit different people.
But by using that reasoning if you bought a Nexus 10 over an iPad 4 you would have significantly less battery life for "video playback and Internet browsing."
But by using that reasoning if you bought a Nexus 10 over an iPad 4 you would have significantly less battery life for "video playback and Internet browsing."
Fair point. Both seem too expensive for what I'd use it for. I won't buy one at all and I'll wait to see if they come down in value. At least I won't be considered foolish by a guy on an internet forum.
Good luck to the OP in wading through the minefield.
I recently spoke to Vodafone about getting a tablet added to my current contract & was disappointed that they had an extreme lack of Android tablets with only stocking their own cheap tablet or the Samsung Galaxy Tab 2, which is currently out of stock & they are unsure when they will be getting any more stock in. Yet they have no problem in supplying an Ipad.
Over the years I have owned the 3GS & 4 iPhone, but have never owned an ipad. The main things I don't like about Apple products is the whole controlling aspect, everything from customizable home screens, right through to only allowing apps that they approve of. I have a few friends in the programming field & they have always had Apple refuse their software for various reasons, yet they have been able to successfully supply Symbian & now Android apps without a problem. There are various streaming sites that I use that do not work on an iPhone or iPad, unless you use a browser like Puffin.
I do however appreciate that there are people who want something that gives them the ease of use without getting technical, therefore an Ipad is more suitable for them. However there are users like myself that prefer to have a device that they have more control over, I am a user that likes to drag n drop through windows, without the need of iToons. Imho the best Apple products are those that have been jailbroken & had Apples restrictions removed.
I don't see the "battle" you are seeing. People are simply giving their opinions of both systems.
Not in your case. You're just evangelising Apple and dissing anything to do with Android.
It's very very tedious and boring and it has also been done better and more intelligently by others that are no longer posting on these forums.
The OP asked for simple advice and you have turned this into an Apple v Android thread.
Please, just stop posting, we've heard it all before as I've said. The OP just wants some decent pointers without all this crap.
Considering getting the Nexus 10 as it seems to be pretty the highest spec tablet out there right now but can't decide if to hang on to see if more tablets are forthcoming, has anyone heard any nice rumours??
Check out the announcements at Google I/O tomorrow. Whilst they're unlikely to have the tablet ready for sale tomorrow, they may well give an indicator of whether they're releasing an updated model.
Negative. The iPad 4 along with the Nexus 10 perform about equally. Some benchmarks favor the Nexus 10 and some favor the iPad 4, but the iPad has significantly longer battery life. You need to stop thinking "spec" and compare benchmarks and over all responsiveness and smoothness.
Two different form factors for two different usage cases so you can't compare the iPhone to the iPad. The 4:3 screen is not just a matter of preference since the 4:3 does in fact show more of a web page.
It's not a matter of me liking that since most people would see that as a big advantage. Accessories are also not limited to Bluetooth connectivity. Things like the availability of cases has nothing to do with Bluetooth. Bluetooth speakers are also a different thing compare to AirPlay speaker.
The fact that you have to ask "a shadow of their former selves" shows you don't know what you are talking about. Apple has led the industry in customer service and tech support for many years, and still does.
No, you can't say that. Apple's products are clearly designed to work with each other. It's all one company making that possible.
Sorry, DLNA is in no way as slickly integrated and as useful as AirPlay is on iOS devices. Any knowledgeable Android user knows that.
Nope, definitely still the case and dramatically more so when it comes to tablets. That is a common complaint from Android users,
LOL. A blown up phone app is not a tablet app. Actual tablet functionality in one Android app file is rarely utilized by developers.
.
Still easy though.
That is certainly not the case across all Android devices.
Because many people want that option, especially if they use a basic phone as I do, among other reasons.
I would suggest you lose that kind of attitude regarding Apple users as it makes it difficult for you to be objective and to be taken seriously.
Gosh you have been bitten by the apple bug good and proper
Check out the announcements at Google I/O tomorrow. Whilst they're unlikely to have the tablet ready for sale tomorrow, they may well give an indicator of whether they're releasing an updated model.
Comments
A Nexus 7 'out of the box' is incredibly smooth. Add some widgets and some other 'push' stuff and you will start to see the performance drop very slightly.
Apple OS is just an app launcher really. Sure it has a few 'Apple managed' apps always on but they are fairly limited. For example look at how impressive Google Now is on Android devices but how much less so it is on Apple hardware.
The above is not a dig. Its an observation. Two different 'routes' taken by two different companies.
With one company you can end up paying more than twice the price for lower spec hardware.
Compare the Nexus devices to their equivalent 'i' devices and you will tend to see lower res screens, slower chips and less connectivity. Yet Apple will charge you twice as much !
Why ? Because there are still people out there that will pay it !
In the past Apple owners claimed it was all down to the higher res, more apps, better hardware.
Now they seem to rely on:
- the lower res screen still looks better ?
- there are more Apps that Apple make you pay for again specifically for tablets ???
- Apple dont 'need' better hardware.
There are very few markets where such devotion would take place. To all those of you who state they buy Apple because "its pretty" or because they are "financially tied into the Apple world" or even "I just like Apple stuff" I salute you as thats a fair and honest reason.
Anything else is just "meh!" .....
Love 'em or hate 'em you cant be critical of Apples business sense (in recent years) ..... theyve stashes away a lot of money from their customers
(obviously all of the above is JUST my OPINION and I expect the usual suspects to rip it to shreds with their own OPINIONS
Correct, but I'm not so sure lagging issues with Android, especially in the past, were due to excessive demands on the hardware.
There are many more reasons to buy an Apple product than you stated.
When you compare a Nexus 7 to iPad mini the build quality is a stark difference, for example. Other examples are:
The longest battery life of any small tablet
A 4:3 screen that allows you to see more of a web page
The best third party accessories support
The best customer service and tech support in the industry
The best resale value
Outstanding integration with Apple's other products
AirPlay
Typically higher quality apps
Typically apps being released first on iOS
A huge amount of *tablet* apps compared to Android
An easier to use interface
Proper and continuous OS and device updates
4G LTE
And unless you compare benchmarks comparing differences in hardware is rather meaningless.
Nope, a 36 ppi difference at those levels of resolution are essentially indistinguishable.
For me it seems very simple:
Do you want to pay £400+ for a tablet? Yes - buy an ipad, No, buy a Nexus.
I was looking on here for people's opinions on tablets as I'm considering buying my first. I've learnt nothing useful.
For what it's worth, phone-wise I've moved from iphone to galaxy S4 and I'm very happy with my decision. I'm one of those people who don't like being locked in to the whims of Apple (see podcast seperation from music. why????????). I will either buy a nexus or a galaxy tab 3. I like the tab as has removable storage at a cheap price but am aware that performance will be limited. This doesn't bother me. I have a laptop for heavy duty stuff. I just want a tablet to watch and read stuff on trains/planes and general internet browsing. As far as I can see, both Apple and Android tablets can provide this. Then, unless you are concerned with appearance, it boils down to price. My decision is Android, some will choose Apple. Debating over which is 'better' is a fairly redundant exercise.
Interesting list.
Battery life ? I'll believe you rather than googling all tablets. Much to do with lower spec (fewer pixels) and lower functionality (widgets and push notifications etc).
4:3 screen we will agree to disagree on. I prefer 16:9 and even apple have moved that way (ish) with the iPhone now.
Accessories - fair enough If you like that sort of thing. I see Bluetooth connectivity lessening this benefit over the next few years though.
Customer service ? Mixed reviews these days. A shadow of their former selves ?
Integration ? My nexus devices are just as integrated I would say .....
Airplay ???? Really ?????? I see your airplay and raise you DLNA ....
higher quality apps ? Maybe historically but less so now....
Apps released on iOS first ? Again this is becoming less the case.
Tablet apps ? But ALL android apps scale to tablet without the need for paying for a second tablet version ! Loads also have tablet modes built in allowing different functionality. Buy one get both modes. Android doesn't need two versions .....
Easy interface ? You say easy i say dull and basic
OS updates ? My nexus devices get FULL updates not some hobbled version with the best new features removed
4G us only needed if you can't tether to your 4G phone. Never understood the idea of buying a monthly fee for a tablet but .....
Anyway. You make a few good points and all credit to you for actually considering your purchase rather than simply buying it because if the logo
iPad 4 16GB - £399
Nexus 10 16GB - £329
So £70 (21%) more, it's not as big as a difference as you make out.
Just a couple of small points:
iOS is uses push notifications extensively.
Apps tend to be universal these days even on iOS.
If you believe that then you don't understand the concept of getting what you pay for.
How is that possible? There is plenty of information provided in this thread and others. Take what people have said and research the subject further and confirm, or not, what has been said. Why ask for advice and opinions if all you are going to do is trash them?
That doesn't even make any sense for surely there are signiffcant and factual differences between the two.
Negative. The iPad 4 along with the Nexus 10 perform about equally. Some benchmarks favor the Nexus 10 and some favor the iPad 4, but the iPad has significantly longer battery life. You need to stop thinking "spec" and compare benchmarks and over all responsiveness and smoothness.
Two different form factors for two different usage cases so you can't compare the iPhone to the iPad. The 4:3 screen is not just a matter of preference since the 4:3 does in fact show more of a web page.
It's not a matter of me liking that since most people would see that as a big advantage. Accessories are also not limited to Bluetooth connectivity. Things like the availability of cases has nothing to do with Bluetooth. Bluetooth speakers are also a different thing compare to AirPlay speaker.
The fact that you have to ask "a shadow of their former selves" shows you don't know what you are talking about. Apple has led the industry in customer service and tech support for many years, and still does.
No, you can't say that. Apple's products are clearly designed to work with each other. It's all one company making that possible.
Sorry, DLNA is in no way as slickly integrated and as useful as AirPlay is on iOS devices. Any knowledgeable Android user knows that.
Nope, definitely still the case and dramatically more so when it comes to tablets. That is a common complaint from Android users,
LOL. A blown up phone app is not a tablet app. Actual tablet functionality in one Android app file is rarely utilized by developers.
.
Still easy though.
That is certainly not the case across all Android devices.
Because many people want that option, especially if they use a basic phone as I do, among other reasons.
I would suggest you lose that kind of attitude regarding Apple users as it makes it difficult for you to be objective and to be taken seriously.
£400 is a hell of a lot of money to pay if you are not going to use it reguarly, whatever the quality of the product. I would not recommend someone pay that money if they were to use it several times a week. If you are going to use it more, depending on what you use it for, then it could be considered worth it. Whilst I was admitedly being fairly mischievous with my post, I think price is a valid point. Personally, it is more important to me than which has a slightly better resolution.
In fairness to myself, I didn't ask for anything, at least out loud! However, what I meant by my comment, is that there will always be people who are firmly in the Apple camp such as yourself, and people who are firmly in the Nexus/Android camp. I'd love to hear more from people who have tried both.
Whilst there are differences between the two devices, on the very basic level of providing video playback and internet browsing which is what I said I would use one for, both devices offer this to a barely distinguishable standard, thus making the debate over which is better redundant. Again, this all goes back to what you use it for and how much you are going to use it. I think this is where different devices will suit different people.
I don't see the "battle" you are seeing. People are simply giving their opinions of both systems.
The differences between the two systems is significantly more than "slightly better resolution."
Buying anything on cost alone is foolish.
Wrong, I objectively evaluate all products and then determine what is best, and especially for my needs. I have tried both and all my comments are based on that experience, as well as the experience of many people I know that continue to use Android.
But by using that reasoning if you bought a Nexus 10 over an iPad 4 you would have significantly less battery life for "video playback and Internet browsing."
Fair point. Both seem too expensive for what I'd use it for. I won't buy one at all and I'll wait to see if they come down in value. At least I won't be considered foolish by a guy on an internet forum.
Good luck to the OP in wading through the minefield.
Over the years I have owned the 3GS & 4 iPhone, but have never owned an ipad. The main things I don't like about Apple products is the whole controlling aspect, everything from customizable home screens, right through to only allowing apps that they approve of. I have a few friends in the programming field & they have always had Apple refuse their software for various reasons, yet they have been able to successfully supply Symbian & now Android apps without a problem. There are various streaming sites that I use that do not work on an iPhone or iPad, unless you use a browser like Puffin.
I do however appreciate that there are people who want something that gives them the ease of use without getting technical, therefore an Ipad is more suitable for them. However there are users like myself that prefer to have a device that they have more control over, I am a user that likes to drag n drop through windows, without the need of iToons. Imho the best Apple products are those that have been jailbroken & had Apples restrictions removed.
Not in your case. You're just evangelising Apple and dissing anything to do with Android.
It's very very tedious and boring and it has also been done better and more intelligently by others that are no longer posting on these forums.
The OP asked for simple advice and you have turned this into an Apple v Android thread.
Please, just stop posting, we've heard it all before as I've said. The OP just wants some decent pointers without all this crap.
Check out the announcements at Google I/O tomorrow. Whilst they're unlikely to have the tablet ready for sale tomorrow, they may well give an indicator of whether they're releasing an updated model.
Gosh you have been bitten by the apple bug good and proper
I'll leave you to it .......
No, obviously you have been "bitten" by the anti-Apple bug.
Wow. Snappy icomeback :rolleyes:
It's the logical comeback since you obviously showed your anti-Apple bias with your illogical reply to me.
wow :eek:
just ..... wow :eek:
looks like no new tablets from Google just yet.