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Sturgeon backing away from fiscal autonomy?

clinchclinch Posts: 11,574
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Intriguing developments over the devolution issue.

The future of devolution was thrown into disarray last night as splits emerged over which new powers should go to Holyrood.
Nicola Sturgeon appeared to row back from her attempt to take control over all taxes and spending, prompting Downing Street sources to question whether the SNP had the nerve to push for the powers at Westminster. Full fiscal autonomy would blow a multibillion-pound hole in the Scottish budget, according to analysis by the respected Institute for Fiscal Studies.
The first minister is also facing internal party questions over independence. She has insisted that the party’s success in the election is not a mandate for another referendum but Alex Salmond said that the SNP’s victory was a “staging post” to separation. George Kerevan, the SNP MP for East Lothian, said that “Scotland can legitimately claim it has no recourse but to seek a second referendum” if Westminster “fumbles”.
Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale, the former Labour first minister, called for the cross-party Smith Commission proposals, which are the basis of the new Scotland bill, to be taken off the table. He said a new constitutional convention should be established to find a fresh UK-wide settlement.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4436497.ece
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 8,916
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    It was inevitable this was going to happen. If Sturgeon is unwilling to take control of Scottish finances, mainly as she knows she will have to raise taxation or cut services which makes her 'end to austerity' policy look a nonsense, then people will question how can they possibly manage as an independent state?

    I predict that the SNP will have more internal battles than a slim Tory majority will. Sturgeon should have ditched Salmond after he stepped down as first minister as he sees himself as Scotland personified and is a liability now.
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    psy7chpsy7ch Posts: 10,717
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    2 things

    Sturgeon is not rowing back on FFA. She merely stated these would have to be negotiated and couldn't just accept any proposal from the tories on FFA if it was offered.

    Labour are now beginning to backtrack on the vow. Never saw that coming.
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    Living4LoveLiving4Love Posts: 1,989
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    The SNP bubble will burst faster than it has risen. I bet over half of those who won seats last week won't win them again in 2020. Enjoy the honeymoon I say! :p
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    anndra_wanndra_w Posts: 6,557
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    Salmond is not good for the SNP. He should have retired quietly.
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    MattNMattN Posts: 2,534
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    It wouldn't look good for them if they were seen to turn extra powers down
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    bossoftheworldbossoftheworld Posts: 4,941
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    I predict that the SNP will have more internal battles than a slim Tory majority will. Sturgeon should have ditched Salmond after he stepped down as first minister as he sees himself as Scotland personified and is a liability now.

    ^^^^^^

    This.
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    MajlisMajlis Posts: 31,362
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    MattN wrote: »
    It wouldn't look good for them if they were seen to turn extra powers down

    Interesting political conundrum - having just fought an election with a policy of wanting more power how could the SNP credibly turn them down if offered.
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    InspirationInspiration Posts: 62,706
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    Sounds like shes bee brought back into line by Salmond. Full split or nothing.
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    MR. MacavityMR. Macavity Posts: 3,877
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    It was inevitable this was going to happen. If Sturgeon is unwilling to take control of Scottish finances, mainly as she knows she will have to raise taxation or cut services which makes her 'end to austerity' policy look a nonsense, then people will question how can they possibly manage as an independent state?

    I predict that the SNP will have more internal battles than a slim Tory majority will. Sturgeon should have ditched Salmond after he stepped down as first minister as he sees himself as Scotland personified and is a liability now.

    ^^^^^^^^^^^

    Pretty much the sanest and realistic paragraph I've read about the SNP in the last week.

    How do you 'End Austerity' by putting up everyone's taxes? Or, who will be picking up the tab for running up a massive budget deficit if you raise public spending -as promised - without being able to borrow?

    Giving Scotland, say, 10 years of fiscal autonomy will give everyone on both sides of Hadrian's Wall a good idea of how Scotland could manage as an independent economy.
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    clinchclinch Posts: 11,574
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    psy7ch wrote: »
    2 things

    Sturgeon is not rowing back on FFA. She merely stated these would have to be negotiated and couldn't just accept any proposal from the tories on FFA if it was offered.

    Labour are now beginning to backtrack on the vow. Never saw that coming.

    I really don't understand that. Financial autonomy is surely financial autonomy. If it's to be negotiated the only thing to be negotiated is whether she wants it or not.
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    i4ui4u Posts: 54,990
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    An SNP MP was on the Sunday Politics who kicked fiscal powers into the long grass (at least 3 years), but as Andrew Neal pointed out if the referendum had been yes they would have had it within 18 months.
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    i4ui4u Posts: 54,990
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    anndra_w wrote: »
    Salmond is not good for the SNP. He should have retired quietly.

    Play Spot Salmond in this photo.

    It will be interesting to see who leads their Westminster MPs.
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    MeepersMeepers Posts: 5,502
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    Sturgeon is smart enough to realise a trap is closing on the SNP. FFA would involve a slashing of spending or massive tax rises, yet turning down extra powers would split her party. Its a tough situation, and no wonder the Tories are pushing the issue, and if Labour had any sense they would join in, as a fracturing of the SNP is there for the taking
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    Living4LoveLiving4Love Posts: 1,989
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    Cameron is playing a blinder if he pulls the rug from under her feet.

    Half of these new SNP MPs also have no idea of politics or how things work. Some of them have only been party members for a few months and just been thrown in at the deep end.

    Adam Boulton interviewed two on his show last night and both of them were saying the exact same stuff almost like it was programmed into them yet when it came to answering difficult questions he put to them they didn't understand what he was saying and clearly had no idea.

    :D Its going to be a lot of fun watching this develop. It has disaster written all over it if you ask me. I think the SNP vote was a protest vote against Labour and the Lib Dems without many of those voting really thinking it through.
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    david1956david1956 Posts: 2,389
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    i4u wrote: »
    Play Spot Salmond in this photo.

    It will be interesting to see who leads their Westminster MPs.

    Angus Robertsonis going to continue as SNP leader at Westminster. It was announced this morning.
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    JT2060JT2060 Posts: 5,370
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    david1956 wrote: »
    Angus Robertsonis going to continue as SNP leader at Westminster. It was announced this morning.

    Then he better take a certain gentleman aside and explain what 'stfu' means.
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    i4ui4u Posts: 54,990
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    Meepers wrote: »
    Sturgeon is smart enough to realise a trap is closing on the SNP. FFA would involve a slashing of spending or massive tax rises, yet turning down extra powers would split her party. Its a tough situation, and no wonder the Tories are pushing the issue, and if Labour had any sense they would join in, as a fracturing of the SNP is there for the taking

    But if just a few are in talks with Cameron then she is free to 'interpret' what's on offer and present it as the government being nasty and thus bad for Scotland?

    For example would Scotland's share of defence costs need to be discussed?
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    domedome Posts: 55,878
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    No one should be surprised by this, when they take charge, all their election promises will be thrown into the long grass. Not so much fun spending your own money.
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    Living4LoveLiving4Love Posts: 1,989
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    i4u wrote: »
    But if just a few are in talks with Cameron then she is free to 'interpret' what's on offer and present it as the government being nasty and thus bad for Scotland?

    For example would Scotland's share of defence costs need to be discussed?

    If the government offer Scotland full fiscal autonomy how can it be spinned as bad? they wanted it so cant reject it. Its what people voted SNP for.

    The Tories are ruthless look at what they did to the Lib Dems, my guess is that now they will go after the SNP and destroy them in a similar way.
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    kerrminatorkerrminator Posts: 618
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    i4u wrote: »
    An SNP MP was on the Sunday Politics who kicked fiscal powers into the long grass (at least 3 years), but as Andrew Neal pointed out if the referendum had been yes they would have had it within 18 months.

    He actually explained quite well, he was talking about how long it would take due to still being in the union (red tape etc) whereas in an indy Scotland loads of that red tape would not exist
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    lavender50lavender50 Posts: 596
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    psy7ch wrote: »
    2 things

    Sturgeon is not rowing back on FFA. She merely stated these would have to be negotiated and couldn't just accept any proposal from the tories on FFA if it was offered.

    Labour are now beginning to backtrack on the vow. Never saw that coming.

    she never did deny high taxes in Scotland, if she went for FFA,refused to answer many times on this.
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    paul2307paul2307 Posts: 8,079
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    If the government offer Scotland full fiscal autonomy how can it be spinned as bad? they wanted it so cant reject it. Its what people voted SNP for.

    The Tories are ruthless look at what they did to the Lib Dems, my guess is that now they will go after the SNP and destroy them in a similar way.

    If Sturgeon is offered what she wanted and now realises its not going to be a bed of roses and as easy as she thought , she is playing in the big boys league now not the school playground
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    AnnsyreAnnsyre Posts: 109,504
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    i4u wrote: »
    Play Spot Salmond in this photo.

    It will be interesting to see who leads their Westminster MPs.

    I believe that they already have a leader who afaik has not resigned.
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    AnnsyreAnnsyre Posts: 109,504
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    paul2307 wrote: »
    If Sturgeon is offered what she wanted and now realises its not going to be a bed of roses and as easy as she thought , she is playing in the big boys league now not the school playground

    She has about as many constituents as Boris who is in charge of one city and not a whole country.
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    donovan5donovan5 Posts: 1,023
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    I don't think she really backed away from anything,just more or less said "lets wait and see whats on offer" basic political answer and pretty sensible.
    She probably does need to have a word with Salmond though or the press will constantly beat her with it.
    For years he was a great focus figure fro the SNP and took them from nowhere really to the brink of independence but I don't think he did them any favours by running again he should have faded away and let the next generation get on with it,he is just a distraction now.
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