Tamera.

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  • Nastyman69Nastyman69 Posts: 4,497
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    I agree with the OP - my dislike of her came after I saw her smug smile when she dumped the others in her so-called trio. Her expression was like - "I know I'm better than them." Afterwards when she messed up her on stage auditions I laughed and thought - she's just a pretty face - nothing more. Then later when all the stuff about her being mean to people at her school came out that was just the icing on the cake which proved my point. Since then she's done nothing performance wise that makes me think she's living up to all the OTT hype.

    That wasn't Tamera, it was this Hannah girl (not Hannah Barrett)...Tamera was in a duet and the judges put them both thorugh the room audition as a separate solo acts instead of a duet

    EDIT: Oops I've said exactly the same thing as Rangermick :o
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 767
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    Nastyman69 wrote: »
    That wasn't Tamera, it was this Hannah girl (not Hannah Barrett)...Tamera was in a duet and the judges put them both thorugh the room audition as a separate solo acts instead of a duet

    EDIT: Oops I've said exactly the same thing as Rangermick :o

    Great minds........:D
  • Nastyman69Nastyman69 Posts: 4,497
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    Rangermick wrote: »
    Great minds........:D

    So true :D
    If you do start a thread, I should refer it to "Belongamick" as in a quote from Crocodile Dundee II ;)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,795
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    Menk wrote: »
    Your limited experience is just that - limited experience. And it has left you with a slightly skewed view of the world.

    Not everyone who experiments with drugs is a horrible bully.

    Not everyone who 'steals' (your word, not mine) someone else's boyfriend is a nasty piece of work.

    And people who don't do these things are not automatically decent and caring human beings by default.

    And people grow up and are not always the same person as they were at school.

    If you were as decent and caring as you seem to think you are, maybe you would be a little less condemning and prepared to give people a second chance.

    I didn't say everyone who does one of any of those things was. But combine all those things? Assault, stealing, drugs, cheating. And yeah, the only people I've ever known or ever heard of who do those things are bullies and they are not nice people.

    You talk about 'growing up' these things happened directly before and during X Factor. This isn't something that happened in her past, it's who she is now.

    Also, there's a huge difference between not supporting someone and condemning them. If I met her personally I would give her a chance, I would judge her on what she showed to me. But that's personal, that's not a television contest where we're supposed to give our money in support of people. I will not support someone who is capable of doing those sorts of things and in all likelihood would still be doing them if she wasn't in the public eye.
  • MenkMenk Posts: 13,831
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    I didn't say everyone who does one of any of those things was. But combine all those things? Assault, stealing, drugs, cheating. And yeah, the only people I've ever known or ever heard of who do those things are bullies and they are not nice people.

    You talk about 'growing up' these things happened directly before and during X Factor. This isn't something that happened in her past, it's who she is now.

    Also, there's a huge difference between not supporting someone and condemning them. If I met her personally I would give her a chance, I would judge her on what she showed to me. But that's personal, that's not a television contest where we're supposed to give our money in support of people. I will not support someone who is capable of doing those sorts of things and in all likelihood would still be doing them if she wasn't in the public eye.

    There is a big difference between not supporting someone and condemning them:

    I am an example of someone who does not support Tamera - I simply do not vote for her, job done.

    You on the other hand have condemned her as a nasty piece of work with no care for other people's feelings and is unlikely to change. That goes well beyond the remit of not supporting a contestant.

    Give me young and foolish any day over judgemental and unforgiving.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,795
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    Menk wrote: »
    There is a big difference between not supporting someone and condemning them:

    I am an example of someone who does not support Tamera - I simply do not vote for her, job done.

    You on the other hand have condemned her as a nasty piece of work with no care for other people's feelings and is unlikely to change. That goes well beyond the remit of not supporting a contestant.

    Give me young and foolish any day over judgemental and unforgiving.

    Where have I called her a nasty piece of work or said she doesn't care about others? I said all the people I've ever known or heard of who have behaved like her have been nasty pieces of work and haven't cared about others (assault, cheating and stealing are all behaviours that hurt others). I haven't said that's what she is, I don't know her personally, none of us do, none of us know what she's like as a person. All I've said is because of her behaviour that's the reason I will not support her.

    And sorry but age is not an excuse. As has already been established, not all 16 year have or would do the things she has done.
  • FusionFuryFusionFury Posts: 14,121
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    She is a forgettable character, for sure, she isn't "Wowing" anyone or getting the judges purring over her voice.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 8,510
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    noelw1969 wrote: »
    Theft, drugs, bullying people, stealing boyfriends....

    Seemingly, run of the mill stuff for a modern day 16yr old.

    Im sure shes not the only one, so why are they picking on her?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,795
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    Im sure shes not the only one, so why are they picking on her?

    Because she's the one asking for their money.
  • MenkMenk Posts: 13,831
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    And sorry but age is not an excuse. As has already been established, not all 16 year have or would do the things she has done.

    Age is an understandable explanation rather than an excuse. People are allowed a few mistakes, especially when they are young.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,795
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    Menk wrote: »
    Age is an understandable explanation rather than an excuse. People are allowed a few mistakes, especially when they are young.

    Everyone is allowed to make mistakes, but I don't think it's fair on young people who do behave well to chalk others bad choices up to their age group. No matter the ages, some people will do things others wouldn't. Age isn't an explanation for bad behaviour, if it was then all people that age would behave that way. Life experiences and friends are more likely to provide an explanation for behaviour than age.
  • MenkMenk Posts: 13,831
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    'We are not all the same' should really go without saying though. Nobody would think that saying that being young and making mistakes tars all youngsters with the same brush - it explains away a learning process which we all go through.

    I am not just talking about Tamera's kind of mistakes here, I'm talking about all things that we do as children and teenagers which we grow out of. The mistakes of the young are (and should be) for the most part forgiven and forgotten, and swiftly too.

    And youngsters make mistakes, in all shapes and sizes, no matter their friendship choices and life experiences. And they all deserve to be forgiven.
  • Nastyman69Nastyman69 Posts: 4,497
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    Menk wrote: »
    'We are not all the same' should really go without saying though. Nobody would think that saying that being young and making mistakes tars all youngsters with the same brush - it explains away a learning process which we all go through.

    I am not just talking about Tamera's kind of mistakes here, I'm talking about all things that we do as children and teenagers which we grow out of. The mistakes of the young are (and should be) for the most part forgiven and forgotten, and swiftly too.

    And youngsters make mistakes, in all shapes and sizes, no matter their friendship choices and life experiences. And they all deserve to be forgiven.

    Well said Menk. This is a fantastic post and people really need to take note of this. Best post I've seen for a while (not including any of mine :D)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,795
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    Menk wrote: »
    'We are not all the same' should really go without saying though. Nobody would think that saying that being young and making mistakes tars all youngsters with the same brush - it explains away a learning process which we all go through.

    I am not just talking about Tamera's kind of mistakes here, I'm talking about all things that we do as children and teenagers which we grow out of. The mistakes of the young are (and should be) for the most part forgiven and forgotten, and swiftly too.

    And youngsters make mistakes, in all shapes and sizes, no matter their friendship choices and life experiences. And they all deserve to be forgiven.

    Woah, woah woah. Are you serious? Sorry but being young does not mean they all deserves to be forgiven. Some young people have done absolutely horrific things (I'm not going to give examples, because I don't want to stray too far from the topic but I'm sure you've heard of some) and they do not deserve forgiveness on account of their age. I think forgiveness is something that should be earned, if everything is forgiven then how does anyone learn from their mistakes? Actions have consequences, and age should not make a difference to that.
  • annielouannielou Posts: 10,246
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    I am a mum of a teenage girl and I can tell you that there are things they do which will break your heart and make you feel hopeless, and then you read that people dismiss these things as oh well they're only young and didn't we all do that?.

    And when a girl like Tamera is held up as a role model for her age group it really makes me (as a parent) despair, when you are trying to guide your own against taking drugs, etc.
  • MenkMenk Posts: 13,831
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    Nastyman69 wrote: »
    Well said Menk. This is a fantastic post and people really need to take note of this. Best post I've seen for a while (not including any of mine :D)

    :D

    And thanks very much!
    Woah, woah woah. Are you serious? Sorry but being young does not mean they all deserves to be forgiven. Some young people have done absolutely horrific things (I'm not going to give examples, because I don't want to stray too far from the topic but I'm sure you've heard of some) and they do not deserve forgiveness on account of their age. I think forgiveness is something that should be earned, if everything is forgiven then how does anyone learn from their mistakes? Actions have consequences, and age should not make a difference to that.

    Yes I totally do mean they all deserve to be forgiven - that doesn't mean ignored, or not punished, but definitely forgiven.

    You say 'if everything is forgiven then how does anyone learn from their mistakes?' Well, I don't believe people learn from their mistakes by forever being held in disdain or punished for their previous actions - forgiveness is key if the person is to move on and get over their mistakes.

    Actions certainly should have consequences, but to forever bear the blame for childhood actions is not a consequence I would like to see in a civilised society. Children need to learn forgiveness themselves, and they will never do so if they have never experienced it.

    'To err is human; to forgive, devine.'
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,795
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    Well sorry but I don't believe that people who rape and murder should be forgiven just because of their age. Not at all. People have to take responsibility for their actions, even young people, and that means giving people a reason to forgive them. I never said or even suggested anywhere that someone should never be forgiven, or 'forever held in disdain', you're putting words in my mouth. I said quite clearly that they should not be forgiven simply on account of their age. That's a ridiculous reason to forgive someone, it's not a reason at all.
  • mmpfbmmpfb Posts: 14,768
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    Well sorry but I don't believe that people who rape and murder should be forgiven just because of their age. Not at all. People have to take responsibility for their actions, even young people, and that means giving people a reason to forgive them. I never said or even suggested anywhere that someone should never be forgiven, or 'forever held in disdain', you're putting words in my mouth. I said quite clearly that they should not be forgiven simply on account of their age. That's a ridiculous reason to forgive someone, it's not a reason at all.

    Whoa. You're equating rape and murder with shoplifting? Really?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 243
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    mmpfb wrote: »
    Whoa. You're equating rape and murder with shoplifting? Really?

    No they are saying " time " to forgive, Tamera should have come back in a couple of years.

    Tamera fans try to turn an ant hill into a molehill.

    Those against Tamera an ant hill into a mountain.

    Me I just enjoy the laugh. :D

    There is very little mention of the faults of the boy group as it was 7 years ago and he appears to have turned his life around.

    Tamera needed time as well to do the same.

    :)
  • Nastyman69Nastyman69 Posts: 4,497
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    SOD_IT wrote: »
    No they are saying " time " to forgive, Tamera should have come back in a couple of years.

    Tamera fans try to turn an ant hill into a molehill.

    Those against Tamera an ant hill into a mountain.

    Me I just enjoy the laugh. :D

    There is very little mention of the faults of the boy group as it was 7 years ago and he appears to have turned his life around.

    Tamera needed time as well to do the same.

    :)

    Well, I've been one Tamera fan who said she wasn't ready for this year and needed at least 2 years BUT she is here now. I think I've been pretty sensible, honest and even very critical of Tamera in quite a few ways but doesn't stop me from supporting her :)
    It's now up to Tamera how she conducts herself to the public - if she is going to change for the better it will be a slow process but we'll see
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 243
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    Nastyman69 wrote: »
    Well, I've been one Tamera fan who said she wasn't ready for this year and needed at least 2 years BUT she is here now. I think I've been pretty sensible, honest and even very critical of Tamera in quite a few ways but doesn't stop me from supporting her :)
    It's now up to Tamera how she conducts herself to the public - if she is going to change for the better it will be a slow process but we'll see

    What has to be remembered is what the voting public think.

    If someone who would have voted for Tamera votes for somebody else then that is 2 votes Tamera has to make up.

    It could explain Tamera being in the bottom two a fortnight back.

    :cool:
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,795
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    mmpfb wrote: »
    Whoa. You're equating rape and murder with shoplifting? Really?

    Not at all. Try to keep up with the discussion.
  • Nastyman69Nastyman69 Posts: 4,497
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    SOD_IT wrote: »
    What has to be remembered is what the voting public think.

    If someone who would have voted for Tamera votes for somebody else then that is 2 votes Tamera has to make up.

    It could explain Tamera being in the bottom two a fortnight back.

    :cool:

    Let's face it - she isn't well liked due to her past. I had a feeling before the live shows started that she may be in B2 at some point but sooner than expected. To be honest, I'm expecting her to be in B2 again before the final. The other problem is all the hype that the producers done on her that really doesn't help at all. Now in terms of vocal ability, some will say she is rubbish, some say she is OK, others will say she is good - let people decide for themselves what they think. In truth, she is not in the same league as Leona and Alex but in my opinion there is something there that can be worked on but she needs to sort herself out.
  • fireemblemcrazefireemblemcraze Posts: 7,436
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    I can safely say I don't know anyone that does drugs (and brags about it), steals from shops or goes and steals other peoples boyfriend/girlfriends.

    But, maybe that's just because my friends are decent people?

    I know loads of people with turbulent pasts. And what I've learned is that I couldn't care less what their pasts are, what matters is what they are right now.

    There's nothing wrong with having difficult pasts, many people have gone through it. There's nothing indecent about having one - they were all naive at the time and they've learned from it.

    Gosh I'm being so mushy..:o
  • Nastyman69Nastyman69 Posts: 4,497
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    I know loads of people with turbulent pasts. And what I've learned is that I couldn't care less what their pasts are, what matters is what they are right now.

    There's nothing wrong with having difficult pasts, many people have gone through it. There's nothing indecent about having one - they were all naive at the time and they've learned from it.

    Gosh I'm being so mushy..:o

    I bet you there are people who are much older than Tamera on this forum have done a lot worse things and never ever admitted to their faults. Her bragging about the drugs was a very dumb move and hopefully she'll learn from that stupidity and everything else she has done in the past :)
    Mind you, some pop stars get up to no good anyway but I hope it's not the case with Tamera or any other contestants coming out of XF. A lot of youngsters need guidance and Tamera is certainly no exception here
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