My point was that with so much MPEG2 and MPEG4 kit around, HEVC isn't going to happen for quite some time, if ever. Similarly, adoption of DVB-T2/MPEG4 on the BBC A and D3&4 muxes isn't likely to happen immediately when (if) the 700MHz band is cleared.
Yes, I think we need to worry about getting everyone upgraded to DVB-T2/AVC before trying to force an upgrade to a newer encoding (which no hardware has yet been built for). It is highly unlikely that HEVC support will be added to existing receivers: it is probable that some features will be covered by patents, and that a royalty will be payable. In any case, it is rare for the firmware on any box to be updated to fix bugs, let alone introduce new features.
A new encoding is usually no more efficient when introduced than the old one. It has potential to be better in the long term, but it takes a while for encoder manufacturers to work out how to use the toolkit to the best advantage. AVC was released in 2003. It started being used for broadcast HD TV in 2007 or so.
The key point is that any upgrade has to be voluntary. The government simply will not pay for millions of new boxes. They were only able to set a target for switchover once 50% of viewers had switched to some form of digital TV (including satellite and cable); that was six years after launch and it took another eight years to complete switchover.
We have probably five years before Ofcom actually sell off 700 MHz - they can't realistically do it before that. For a voluntary upgrade we'll be lucky if 50% of Freeview households have upgraded all their equipment to DVB-T2/AVC capable.
To get voluntary upgrades, there has to be a good marketing message, a reason to do the upgrade. "HD on Freeview" was and is a good marketing message, but only four channels is a problem. Viewer surveys often report that more content is more important than better quality and, absent a few grumblings on forums, most viewers seem happy enough with the poor resolution and blocky picture on the commercial multiplexes. Try upselling AVC equipment to them, or the idea that they'll lose a dozen channels when 700 MHz is released (which will happen if you force every channel to go HD - some SD content will still be required). Punishing viewers is not the way to get this done.
We'll have to hope that the 'interim' multiplexes in 600 MHz - even though they will only cover about 60% of the population - will provide enough HD content to encourage swifter adoption of AVC-capable equipment.
Not introducing DAB+ now could probably be described as yet another mistake by the powers that be.
The minimum specifications agreed for the Digital Radio 'tick' logo include DAB+, at up to 96 kbps. Hopefully this is a sign that the industry have realised that it is more sensible to break a million receivers now than 20 million receivers later.
Given that many people really aren't interested in HD - I'd suggest this might be either because they still have CRTs (that's me!) or possibly only have a small screen where the higher quality of HD is hardly noticeable - I think the two temporary muxs should consider that some decent SD content not available elsewhere might also encourage takeup of DVB-T2. This may not be part of the plan at present, but If they could squeeze in - say - four to six SD channels with some broad viewer appeal, that might be a very good move in terms of increasing takeup. I am right, am I not, in thinking that a DVB-T2 mux could have a mix of HD and SD content?
The streaming services (youtube/Google, Netflix ...) need all the bandwidth reduction they can get - both for slower accesslines and maybe even more to offload the internet core - and may drive HEVC-chip volume.
The streaming services (youtube/Google, Netflix ...) need all the bandwidth reduction they can get - both for slower accesslines and maybe even more to offload the internet core - and may drive HEVC-chip volume.
...bringing us nicely full-circle as to why it is a bad idea to sell off proper TV broadcast spectrum and replace it with mobile broadband, which can't realistically handle TV like, erm, TV broadcasting does.
The minimum specifications agreed for the Digital Radio 'tick' logo include DAB+, at up to 96 kbps. Hopefully this is a sign that the industry have realised that it is more sensible to break a million receivers now than 20 million receivers later.
To be fair, the manufacturing industry isn't the problem. There's an obvious lack of interest from the broadcast industry.
Bear in mind that Belmont currently serves as a unique region (East Yorkshire & Lincolnshire) for the BBC and an opt-out for ITV's South and East Region (proposed as a unique region under ITV's licence renewal conditions) - this would no longer be possible.
Lost in the edit... that should read the Calendar South & East opt-out of ITV's Yorkshire region.
Broadcom showed working samples of its BCM7445 chip at CES this January. Samples are available now and volume production from mid 2014.
Actually, the fact that the chip is only available as a working "sample" does appear to confirm kruador's comment "which no hardware has yet been built for".
If the chip is only available as a sample, then it follows that any tv decoder hardware using the chip has yet to be built.
...bringing us nicely full-circle as to why it is a bad idea to sell off proper TV broadcast spectrum and replace it with mobile broadband, which can't realistically handle TV like, erm, TV broadcasting does.
ISPs have to endlessly invest in their infrastructure to keep up with ever increasing demands for bandwidth. They are already wanting to charge content suppliers for preferential access to their network. It doesn't seem to be the best plan to push broadcasting online, only to find the ISPs restricting traffic and demanding high fees to remove the restrictions.
The key point is that any upgrade has to be voluntary.
Why? Politically? Legally? Technically?
FWIW I think people misunderstand the potential of DVB-T2/MPEG-4 to broadcast SD. If the picture quality on the current chopping channels is acceptable, then you could fit a heck of a lot of those channels into one DVB-T2 mux in "SD".
FWIW I think people misunderstand the potential of DVB-T2/MPEG-4 to broadcast SD. If the picture quality on the current chopping channels is acceptable, then you could fit a heck of a lot of those channels into one DVB-T2 mux in "SD".
(not wishing to give anyone any ideas! )
Cheers,
David.
I will completely lose all faith in OFCOM if they don't set minimum quality standards alongside a move to DVB-T2 & AVC.
If the picture quality on the current chopping channels is acceptable, then you could fit a heck of a lot of those channels into one DVB-T2 mux in "SD".
(not wishing to give anyone any ideas! )
I'm guessing they will have already thought of it.
looks quite interesting and I believe that Samsung are going to support HEVC in their new top of the range plasma ... I think we are all going to need new hardware to utilise this sadly.
They still use MPEG2 even for HD though. Each multiplex has something like 1 HD and 2 SD channels.
So what? It works and the people that use it are happy with it. A friend in Brooklyn who can't afford cable has access to seven free-to-air HD channels which is considerably better than Freeview can manage even now.
I would say it is the price we pay for poor long term planning.
Note that North America has had the same digital terrestrial system in place since 1996 and was both free-to-air and HD-capable from the start.
Yes, it's possible to hold onto out dated, inefficient standards that are well past their use by date rather than keeping up with technical change. That's the sort of thinking that has put us in the position we are in now with DAB. Expanding into new areas with an investment in totally outdated technology and no indication that we will ever move on to the far more efficient DAB+.
It was just "BBC" in those days. BBC2 hadn't been thought of let alone BBC3, BBC4, etc.
And there were the same number of programmes worth watching back then as there are now except you didn't to go searching for them all over the place.:p
Comments
Yes, I think we need to worry about getting everyone upgraded to DVB-T2/AVC before trying to force an upgrade to a newer encoding (which no hardware has yet been built for). It is highly unlikely that HEVC support will be added to existing receivers: it is probable that some features will be covered by patents, and that a royalty will be payable. In any case, it is rare for the firmware on any box to be updated to fix bugs, let alone introduce new features.
A new encoding is usually no more efficient when introduced than the old one. It has potential to be better in the long term, but it takes a while for encoder manufacturers to work out how to use the toolkit to the best advantage. AVC was released in 2003. It started being used for broadcast HD TV in 2007 or so.
The key point is that any upgrade has to be voluntary. The government simply will not pay for millions of new boxes. They were only able to set a target for switchover once 50% of viewers had switched to some form of digital TV (including satellite and cable); that was six years after launch and it took another eight years to complete switchover.
We have probably five years before Ofcom actually sell off 700 MHz - they can't realistically do it before that. For a voluntary upgrade we'll be lucky if 50% of Freeview households have upgraded all their equipment to DVB-T2/AVC capable.
To get voluntary upgrades, there has to be a good marketing message, a reason to do the upgrade. "HD on Freeview" was and is a good marketing message, but only four channels is a problem. Viewer surveys often report that more content is more important than better quality and, absent a few grumblings on forums, most viewers seem happy enough with the poor resolution and blocky picture on the commercial multiplexes. Try upselling AVC equipment to them, or the idea that they'll lose a dozen channels when 700 MHz is released (which will happen if you force every channel to go HD - some SD content will still be required). Punishing viewers is not the way to get this done.
We'll have to hope that the 'interim' multiplexes in 600 MHz - even though they will only cover about 60% of the population - will provide enough HD content to encourage swifter adoption of AVC-capable equipment.
The minimum specifications agreed for the Digital Radio 'tick' logo include DAB+, at up to 96 kbps. Hopefully this is a sign that the industry have realised that it is more sensible to break a million receivers now than 20 million receivers later.
That is not true.
Broadcom showed working samples of its BCM7445 chip at CES this January. Samples are available now and volume production from mid 2014.
HEVC Broadcom.com's BCM7445 chip released
The streaming services (youtube/Google, Netflix ...) need all the bandwidth reduction they can get - both for slower accesslines and maybe even more to offload the internet core - and may drive HEVC-chip volume.
Lars
...bringing us nicely full-circle as to why it is a bad idea to sell off proper TV broadcast spectrum and replace it with mobile broadband, which can't realistically handle TV like, erm, TV broadcasting does.
To be fair, the manufacturing industry isn't the problem. There's an obvious lack of interest from the broadcast industry.
Lost in the edit... that should read the Calendar South & East opt-out of ITV's Yorkshire region.
Actually, the fact that the chip is only available as a working "sample" does appear to confirm kruador's comment "which no hardware has yet been built for".
If the chip is only available as a sample, then it follows that any tv decoder hardware using the chip has yet to be built.
ISPs have to endlessly invest in their infrastructure to keep up with ever increasing demands for bandwidth. They are already wanting to charge content suppliers for preferential access to their network. It doesn't seem to be the best plan to push broadcasting online, only to find the ISPs restricting traffic and demanding high fees to remove the restrictions.
FWIW I think people misunderstand the potential of DVB-T2/MPEG-4 to broadcast SD. If the picture quality on the current chopping channels is acceptable, then you could fit a heck of a lot of those channels into one DVB-T2 mux in "SD".
(not wishing to give anyone any ideas!
Cheers,
David.
There have been too many unnecessary changes to the digital terrestrial platform already.
Yet another one will simply drive most viewers to seek an alternative.
Now you know why I don't spend a lot of money on Freeview receivers
Based on previous experience I wouldn't bet on the current generation of DVB-T2 receivers working properly after 2018 either.
I'm guessing they will have already thought of it.
The price we pay for progress and technical change.
http://www.diginfo.tv/v/13-0015-r-en.php
looks quite interesting and I believe that Samsung are going to support HEVC in their new top of the range plasma ... I think we are all going to need new hardware to utilise this sadly.
I would say it is the price we pay for poor long term planning.
Note that North America has had the same digital terrestrial system in place since 1996 and was both free-to-air and HD-capable from the start.
So what? It works and the people that use it are happy with it. A friend in Brooklyn who can't afford cable has access to seven free-to-air HD channels which is considerably better than Freeview can manage even now.
Yes, it's possible to hold onto out dated, inefficient standards that are well past their use by date rather than keeping up with technical change. That's the sort of thinking that has put us in the position we are in now with DAB. Expanding into new areas with an investment in totally outdated technology and no indication that we will ever move on to the far more efficient DAB+.
If you look back he was happy with just BBC 1.
Again, so what?
Not everyone is obsessed with the total number of channels they can receive, especially when most are not worth watching.
It was just "BBC" in those days. BBC2 hadn't been thought of let alone BBC3, BBC4, etc.
And there were the same number of programmes worth watching back then as there are now except you didn't to go searching for them all over the place.:p