I guess the moral here is that people SHOULD know their own vehicle.
I've actually fallen foul of the dreaded "Toyota Throttle Issue", purely because the throttle pedal of mt MR2 got snagged under the edge of the carpet as I accelerated out of a T-junction.
There certainly was about 2 seconds of "Holy Flurking Shnitz! WTF???!!!" before I turned off the ignition.
I was able to do that because I DO know that the steering lock doesn't come on until I turn the key all the way back to the "remove key" position of the ignition switch.
People really DO need to find out what their car does and doesn't do in emergency situations.
FWIW, I doubt that ANY car applies the steering lock as soon as the engine stops.
If it did, it'd be a huge safety hazard in cases where, say, the engine cuts out on a motorway due to faulty electrics etc.
I DO wonder what the deal is with modern cars that have keyless ignition though.
I'd bet that the steering lock only operates when the engine is off and the owner presses the button on the keyfob to lock the doors.
If I owned a car with keyless ignition, I'd sure as hell find out what happens when I press the "engine stop" button though.
2 ways on my keyless Renault.
1. Press the stop/start button and the electrics start and the steering unlocks. Engine will not start.
2. Press stop/start with foot on break or on clutch and electrics start, steering unlocks and the steering unlocks.
If the keycard is not in the ignition (I have 100% keyless) then I have to press stop to cease the engine and the steering lock and electrics will not cease until I open the drivers door ... Unless I press the stop/start button twice. So it is possible to keep the steering unlocked. I assume it works the same with the card in the ignition slot, I'll have a play later as its very rare I use it and tend to keep the keys in my pocket.
Highly unlikely that a feature such as that is removed when the car is modified.
Yeah but the brakes on every normal car are a "simple" hydraulic system. No amount of monkeying with the brakes is ever going to make a car speed up.
The only possible explanation is that whatever modifications were made enabled this to happen and, that being the case, it's anybody's guess what other faults might have also occured.
Yeah, sorry if it sounded like I was revealing some unnoticed bit of information.
I was just trying to point out that it seems likely that the modifications might have prevented anything as obvious as "stick the gear lever in neutral".
When the car is stopped and the engine turns off, the power steering pump also stops as its powered by the engine. Unassisted steering however is relatively easy to use when the car is moving.
In all manual and automatic cars it is easy to put the car into neutral at any speed or revs, it's a safety feature.
It's more likely that the driver of the Renault panicked and never thought of that. Personally it would be my first though. "My car is accelerating uncontrollably, I better disengage drive to the wheels"
1. Relatively easy is an individual concept and given this chap was disabled, it might not have been easy for him at all.
2. How come the police didn't know this fact and suggest it to the driver? There must have been someone involved who knew about cars or who could have contacted the manufacturer for info.
Having thought about it you would have to have a good aim to drive through a toll booth at 125mph and if he drove all that way at that speed without an accident, how come he ended up in a ditch when his fuel ran out?
Are we getting the whole story here?
The handbrake by itself won't be enough. It'll just burn the brakes out.
My Citroen has an electric hand brake - just a kind of button that you pull on the dash. But, it's also used as an emergency stop button, so that if the driver falls ill, the passenger pulls it and the car slows to a stop.
On our Renault scenic, the key card must be in the card reader before you can press the start button, now when I was learning to drive I went out in it a few times and before we done anything we tested what would happen if we pressed the start/stop button. So going into our drive slowly my dad pressed the button and the engine switched off and handbrake jammed on, but no steering lock engages until you remove the card from the reader.
But I believe that if the car is travelling any faster then the button will not turn the engine off. Apparently pressing the button 5 times in quick succession cuts off the fuel from the engine... But I imagine he did not know that if it's true!
Sure, you'll lose your power steering but it's VERY unlikely you'd actually lock the steering.
And losing power steering is bad - it's much harder to turn unpowered power steering than non-powered steering - not something you want to do at 125mph when you are trying to avoid traffic.
And losing power steering is bad - it's much harder to turn unpowered power steering than non-powered steering - not something you want to do at 125mph when you are trying to avoid traffic.
Most fit people would have no problem steering in that situation until the car came to a halt.
Granted in this case It would depend on his degree of disability though.
Same fault as Toyota not so long ago?
I cant remember the details but many cars have a safety system called Brake to Idle for Just this situation. Toyota were so sure their cars wouldnt develope this fault they didnt see the need of Brake to Idle
The Toyota one where the driver called police in the US as he went off the freeway and all 4 in the car died was the result of the hire car comany putting the wrong sized mats in the car resulting in the driver managing to get the accelarator pedal stuck under the mat.
And losing power steering is bad - it's much harder to turn unpowered power steering than non-powered steering - not something you want to do at 125mph when you are trying to avoid traffic.
I'd say that, in the grand scheme of things, losing PAS while you coast to a halt, surrounded by police-cars is probably less hazardous than driving at 125mph for a couple of hours if at all possible.
Most fit people would have no problem steering in that situation until the car came to a halt.
Granted in this case It would depend on his degree of disability though.
Recent personal experience makes me disagree - I had to replace the battery on my car the other week, and the first sign of an issue was an intermittent loss of electrical power, mostly just after I started the car. One morning I had driven the 50 yards to the first turn I make, and as I began to turn the wheel the battery (and therefore the car) died. Even at low speed, I couldn't turn the steering wheel enough to complete the turn while coasting, and I'm able bodied and fit enough.
All these suggestions of what to do but the guy was disabled, he probably couldn't do them, or or the adaptations stopped him, what the Renault engineer suggested or doing them may have risked skidding and crashing! God knows why he drove into a ditch in the end though... why do that when you are out of petrol?
I'm not worried about my Renault as I'm not disabled and my car has no adaptations. if I was, I might be!
Recent personal experience makes me disagree - I had to replace the battery on my car the other week, and the first sign of an issue was an intermittent loss of electrical power, mostly just after I started the car. One morning I had driven the 50 yards to the first turn I make, and as I began to turn the wheel the battery (and therefore the car) died. Even at low speed, I couldn't turn the steering wheel enough to complete the turn while coasting, and I'm able bodied and fit enough.
I wouldn't want to have to do that at 100mph+
You wouldn't have had much trouble turning the wheel at 100 mph, though I wouldn't like to end up in that situation either!
I own and have owned numerous Renaults including Lagunas, I have at the moment a Renault Scenic, it does not require the keycard to be in the card slot, and, I am not quite sure what would happen if I was to press the stop button whilst moving, don't really intend to try it.
There is no way to switch off the ignition on a Renault Scenic or a Laguna as far as I am aware.
Recent personal experience makes me disagree - I had to replace the battery on my car the other week, and the first sign of an issue was an intermittent loss of electrical power, mostly just after I started the car. One morning I had driven the 50 yards to the first turn I make, and as I began to turn the wheel the battery (and therefore the car) died. Even at low speed, I couldn't turn the steering wheel enough to complete the turn while coasting, and I'm able bodied and fit enough.
I wouldn't want to have to do that at 100mph+
It's easier at 100mph+ because the directional corrections required on roads where this is possible are much less than those required when making full-on turns.
You'd turn off the ignition on a straight bit of road. The car will slow down, especially with the engine in gear. If it does look like it will career off the edge of the road, then turn the key back on, the engine might well start again, but it will be slower than before and it only needs to be on for a second to adjust the steering.
Although I realise this is easier to think of at my desk than in an out-of-control car at 100mph..
I own and have owned numerous Renaults including Lagunas, I have at the moment a Renault Scenic, it does not require the keycard to be in the card slot, and, I am not quite sure what would happen if I was to press the stop button whilst moving, don't really intend to try it.
There is no way to switch off the ignition on a Renault Scenic or a Laguna as far as I am aware.
It looks like you can just hold the button for 3 seconds and the wheel wont lock but off course you do not have brake servos and air bags so do it on a strait clear road!
The fact the handbook has this warning means it must be possibly when driving.
"Never switch off the ignition before the vehicle has stopped completely. Once the engine has stopped, the brake servo, power assisted steering, etc. and the passive safety devices such as air bags and pretensioners will no longer operate."
Comments
and lose his steering?
it does say it was specially adapted for disabled drivers. so i think it was probably that...
1. Press the stop/start button and the electrics start and the steering unlocks. Engine will not start.
2. Press stop/start with foot on break or on clutch and electrics start, steering unlocks and the steering unlocks.
If the keycard is not in the ignition (I have 100% keyless) then I have to press stop to cease the engine and the steering lock and electrics will not cease until I open the drivers door ... Unless I press the stop/start button twice. So it is possible to keep the steering unlocked. I assume it works the same with the card in the ignition slot, I'll have a play later as its very rare I use it and tend to keep the keys in my pocket.
Yeah but the brakes on every normal car are a "simple" hydraulic system. No amount of monkeying with the brakes is ever going to make a car speed up.
The only possible explanation is that whatever modifications were made enabled this to happen and, that being the case, it's anybody's guess what other faults might have also occured.
Yeah, sorry if it sounded like I was revealing some unnoticed bit of information.
I was just trying to point out that it seems likely that the modifications might have prevented anything as obvious as "stick the gear lever in neutral".
That's the last thing you should do.
Not really, for reasons discussed above.
Sure, you'll lose your power steering but it's VERY unlikely you'd actually lock the steering.
I think the best option would be to put it in neutral, if that was possible.
1. Relatively easy is an individual concept and given this chap was disabled, it might not have been easy for him at all.
2. How come the police didn't know this fact and suggest it to the driver? There must have been someone involved who knew about cars or who could have contacted the manufacturer for info.
3. Highly likely.
Are we getting the whole story here?
It worked for him.
My Citroen has an electric hand brake - just a kind of button that you pull on the dash. But, it's also used as an emergency stop button, so that if the driver falls ill, the passenger pulls it and the car slows to a stop.
That's the theory, anyway, never tried it
But I believe that if the car is travelling any faster then the button will not turn the engine off. Apparently pressing the button 5 times in quick succession cuts off the fuel from the engine... But I imagine he did not know that if it's true!
Renault were contacted 'an expert' went through all the possibilities to stop the car.
Because the car was adapted for a disabled driver, the exact mods WE DO NOT KNOW, the car was not able to be stopped.
Anything else is pure conjecture.
The more cars become fly-by-wire the more chance there is for them to go irreversible wrong increases.
I doubt he planned to crash into the ditch:rolleyes: Probably wanted to get out of the car as soon as possible!
And losing power steering is bad - it's much harder to turn unpowered power steering than non-powered steering - not something you want to do at 125mph when you are trying to avoid traffic.
Most fit people would have no problem steering in that situation until the car came to a halt.
Granted in this case It would depend on his degree of disability though.
The Toyota one where the driver called police in the US as he went off the freeway and all 4 in the car died was the result of the hire car comany putting the wrong sized mats in the car resulting in the driver managing to get the accelarator pedal stuck under the mat.
Well, yes and it's probably something that the police he was on the phone to suggested too.
I'd say that, in the grand scheme of things, losing PAS while you coast to a halt, surrounded by police-cars is probably less hazardous than driving at 125mph for a couple of hours if at all possible.
Still, opinions are like arseholes, I guess.
Recent personal experience makes me disagree - I had to replace the battery on my car the other week, and the first sign of an issue was an intermittent loss of electrical power, mostly just after I started the car. One morning I had driven the 50 yards to the first turn I make, and as I began to turn the wheel the battery (and therefore the car) died. Even at low speed, I couldn't turn the steering wheel enough to complete the turn while coasting, and I'm able bodied and fit enough.
I wouldn't want to have to do that at 100mph+
I'm not worried about my Renault as I'm not disabled and my car has no adaptations. if I was, I might be!
You wouldn't have had much trouble turning the wheel at 100 mph, though I wouldn't like to end up in that situation either!
There is no way to switch off the ignition on a Renault Scenic or a Laguna as far as I am aware.
It's easier at 100mph+ because the directional corrections required on roads where this is possible are much less than those required when making full-on turns.
You'd turn off the ignition on a straight bit of road. The car will slow down, especially with the engine in gear. If it does look like it will career off the edge of the road, then turn the key back on, the engine might well start again, but it will be slower than before and it only needs to be on for a second to adjust the steering.
Although I realise this is easier to think of at my desk than in an out-of-control car at 100mph..
It looks like you can just hold the button for 3 seconds and the wheel wont lock but off course you do not have brake servos and air bags so do it on a strait clear road!
The fact the handbook has this warning means it must be possibly when driving.
"Never switch off the ignition before the vehicle has stopped completely. Once the engine has stopped, the brake servo, power assisted steering, etc. and the passive safety devices such as air bags and pretensioners will no longer operate."
Renault Megane handbooks 2012
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g262/yetnet/handbooks-Megane_2012-pdf_zps2c7103ee.jpg