BBC SD/HD channel swaps

Mickey_TMickey_T Posts: 4,962
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Any news on when this is finally going to happen on freesat?

Sky has already implemented it where applicable, and I can't understand why there's such a delay with swapping on freesat.

Obviously I'm not talking about BBC1 Eng regions, but BBC2 Eng, BBC3, BBC4 and BBC News HD.

With Alix Pryde gone there seems to be little news.
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Comments

  • popeye13popeye13 Posts: 8,573
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    She said in her blog that it will be 2014.
    But i agree, there was no need for delay in the first place.
    In 2014 we intend to make the equivalent SD/HD substitutions on Freesat, ie: BBC One in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland; BBC Two in England; and the other five HD services across the UK
  • mjrmjr Posts: 2,363
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    popeye13 wrote: »
    But i agree, there was no need for delay in the first place.

    IIRC the delay is/was something to do with Red Button applications and making sure you get returned to the correct channel on exit.
  • popeye13popeye13 Posts: 8,573
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    mjr wrote: »
    IIRC the delay is/was something to do with Red Button applications and making sure you get returned to the correct channel on exit.

    Something thats been working fine through when BBC HD was on air before it became BBC Two HD and works fine on BBC One HD.
    Its just another BBC excuse, there famed for it
  • mjrmjr Posts: 2,363
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    popeye13 wrote: »
    Something thats been working fine through when BBC HD was on air before it became BBC Two HD and works fine on BBC One HD.
    Its just another BBC excuse, there famed for it

    But those channels aren't swapped/replaced in the EPG, I think that's what it relates to, not problems with HD channels as such. I imagine there's some oddity they're trying to work out regarding how (some?) receivers behave when returning to a channel that could be HD/SD on the same number. Perhaps some receivers crash for example, so they're waiting for the manufacturer to fix their firmware.
  • Mickey_TMickey_T Posts: 4,962
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    popeye13 wrote: »
    She said in her blog that it will be 2014.
    But i agree, there was no need for delay in the first place.
    Yes, but 2014 is a rather large window. It would be nice if they could narrow that down a bit.
    mjr wrote: »
    IIRC the delay is/was something to do with Red Button applications and making sure you get returned to the correct channel on exit.
    I thought the only red button 'issue' they were working on regarded BBC News HD, which is why it didn't swap on Sky and besides, Scotland and NI have their BBC1-HD at 101 already on freesat, so surely any RB technicalities have already been worked out?

    Anyway, seeing as it's now February, an update would be welcome. :)
  • mjrmjr Posts: 2,363
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    It's referenced here, the relevant bit being:
    Regarding SD/HD swapping on Freesat, we plan to do this in 2014. The reason why we have not yet done it is because we need to do further development and testing to ensure that the BBC Red Button and the SD/HD swap are properly integrated.

    ...but unfortunately doesn't elaborate more on the issue.
  • Mickey_TMickey_T Posts: 4,962
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    Don't BBC1-HD Scotland and NI have red button feeds then?
  • popeye13popeye13 Posts: 8,573
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    Mickey_T wrote: »
    I thought the only red button 'issue' they were working on regarded BBC News HD, which is why it didn't swap on Sky

    BBC NEWS HD didn't swap straight away on Sky because of the Mandela coverage and BBC bosses though it might cause disruption....
    (Please contain your laughter)
  • KNs47KNs47 Posts: 426
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    Freesat BBC1 Scotland HD isn't on 101, it's still on 108.
  • Mickey_TMickey_T Posts: 4,962
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    KNs47 wrote: »
    Freesat BBC1 Scotland HD isn't on 101, it's still on 108.
    Oh, I must be getting confused with Sky then.

    Hopefully it'll all get sorted soon. :)
  • Mickey_TMickey_T Posts: 4,962
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    I see from the changelog that BBC1 NI HD has now swapped to 101 on the EPG so surely it can't be much longer until BBC1-Scot, BBC2-Eng, BBC3, BBC4 and BBC News HD channels all follow suit?
  • es6300es6300 Posts: 298
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    Mickey_T wrote: »
    I see from the changelog that BBC1 NI HD has now swapped to 101 on the EPG so surely it can't be much longer until BBC1-Scot, BBC2-Eng, BBC3, BBC4 and BBC News HD channels all follow suit?

    have suggested a few times to freesat, that it would be ideal if the SD channels were replaced by the HD channels, and where programming changes for regional - that a 'notice' flashes up on screen, prompting you to either stay with the HD content, or 'automatically swap over' to the SD content.

    or at least have a button (simliar how we change to HD on ITV) to switch between content
  • pburke90pburke90 Posts: 14,757
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    Would be nice if, after BBC ONE swaps that UTV and Channel 4 did it too, or gave viewers the choice. It should be implemented into the software somewhere, or the HD variants added to the regional channels you can select for 101 and 102. There is no BBC TWO NI yet, but I still would like BBC TWO HD on 102. I imagine UTV will also swap as they have on Sky, Channel 4 may be reluctant to for ad reasons. Hence why it would be great if it was included in the software to allow the user the choice.
  • M60M60 Posts: 5,595
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    Paddy C wrote: »
    Would be nice if, after BBC ONE swaps that UTV and Channel 4 did it too, or gave viewers the choice. It should be implemented into the software somewhere, or the HD variants added to the regional channels you can select for 101 and 102. There is no BBC TWO NI yet, but I still would like BBC TWO HD on 102. I imagine UTV will also swap as they have on Sky, Channel 4 may be reluctant to for ad reasons. Hence why it would be great if it was included in the software to allow the user the choice.

    Very glad to finally see the BBC SD/HD swaps starting to take place, I suspect NI is being done first as a test and then rolled out to BBC One Scotland and Wales before BBC Two England and all the other services. There's probably a fair bit of back-office work to do on the EPG migration so also for Freesat, doing it piece by piece is most likely easier in terms of workload and subsequent testing.

    ITV and Channel 4 won't do a swap everywhere to regional advertising. What would be good and as the BBC are doing (appreciate it would benefit and loose out to various people depending where they are) is if the HD version of a channel matches identically to SD for ITV and C4 then also do the swap. All of ITV London, Central W, Granada and Meridian (SE) would immediately benefit which is a fair chunk of the population, C4 viewers in London would also benefit from C4HD on LCN 104.
  • DWA9ISDWA9IS Posts: 10,557
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    M60 wrote: »
    Very glad to finally see the BBC SD/HD swaps starting to take place, I suspect NI is being done first as a test and then rolled out to BBC One Scotland and Wales before BBC Two England and all the other services. There's probably a fair bit of back-office work to do on the EPG migration so also for Freesat, doing it piece by piece is most likely easier in terms of workload and subsequent testing.

    ITV and Channel 4 won't do a swap everywhere to regional advertising. What would be good and as the BBC are doing (appreciate it would benefit and loose out to various people depending where they are) is if the HD version of a channel matches identically to SD for ITV and C4 then also do the swap. All of ITV London, Central W, Granada and Meridian (SE) would immediately benefit which is a fair chunk of the population, C4 viewers in London would also benefit from C4HD on LCN 104.

    yes then if people want most of their 1-5 channels HD on 101-105 they just need a London postcode as that would get BBC 2HD at 102, ITV London HD at 103 and Channel 4 HD at 104!
  • M60M60 Posts: 5,595
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    lotrjw wrote: »
    yes then if people want most of their 1-5 channels HD on 101-105 they just need a London postcode as that would get BBC 2HD at 102, ITV London HD at 103 and Channel 4 HD at 104!

    Didn't initially think of that but your right. Looking at the BBC HD/SD swaps on Sky, BBC One NI swapped on the 18th November last year followed by BBC One Scotland and Wales on the 10th December alongside the newly launched BBC HD simulcasts that day. BBC Two England swapped with it's HD variant on the 11th December but BBC News HD didn't swap with it's SD counterpart until early January due to the on-going high profile Nelson Mandella coverage and subsequent Christmas lockdown period.

    The BBC must be doing a pilot trial in NI, as they did for Sky, and once happy they'll then swap the rest which will be good. :)
  • Mickey_TMickey_T Posts: 4,962
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    So if we use the Sky timescale as a template, we may see the other swaps happen in April, all things being well.
  • soulboy77soulboy77 Posts: 24,469
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    Will the HD/SD swaps feature be user selectable i.e. a global on/off or purely driven be input postcode?
  • pburke90pburke90 Posts: 14,757
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    Never thought about a London postcode. That will definitely get the first 4 terrestrial channels in HD at 101-104? Excellent.
  • Mickey_TMickey_T Posts: 4,962
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    soulboy77 wrote: »
    Will the HD/SD swaps feature be user selectable i.e. a global on/off or purely driven be input postcode?
    Postcode i would have thought. Users in Scotland would still get BBC2-SD Scotland at 102, but BBC1-HD Scotland at 101, whereas English postcodes get their BBC1 SD region at 101 and BBC2-HD England at 102.
    Presumably BBC3, BBC4 and BBC News will swap irrespective of where in the UK you reside.
    Paddy C wrote: »
    Never thought about a London postcode. That will definitely get the first 4 terrestrial channels in HD at 101-104? Excellent.
    There's been no indication from ITV or CH4 about doing such a swap, although it'd be something I'd like to see. BBC1 would still be SD though as they currently don't show the London news on the English HD channel anyway.
  • DWA9ISDWA9IS Posts: 10,557
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    Paddy C wrote: »
    Never thought about a London postcode. That will definitely get the first 4 terrestrial channels in HD at 101-104? Excellent.

    Well I was speaking hypothetically, unfortunately, based on 'if' ITV and Channel 4 swapped their HD regional variations!

    But If they did and then the BBC brought out its HD regional variations for BBC 1 HD then you could have 'your' BBC 1 HD region and have BBC 2 England HD, ITV London HD, and Channel 4 HD (London).
    I believe that that would then be a possible combination?
  • DWA9ISDWA9IS Posts: 10,557
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    Mickey_T wrote: »
    Postcode i would have thought. Users in Scotland would still get BBC2-SD Scotland at 102, but BBC1-HD Scotland at 101, whereas English postcodes get their BBC1 SD region at 101 and BBC2-HD England at 102.
    Presumably BBC3, BBC4 and BBC News will swap irrespective of where in the UK you reside.


    There's been no indication from ITV or CH4 about doing such a swap, although it'd be something I'd like to see. BBC1 would still be SD though as they currently don't show the London news on the English HD channel anyway.

    I believe you can pt whatever postcode you like as the main one and the have whatever different BBC 1 region you like meaning a possible HD region if thats on the list of possible sections.
    People should try selecting BBC 1 HD Northern Ireland as their BBC 1 HD region irrespective of their main postcode to try it out now!
  • Mickey_TMickey_T Posts: 4,962
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    lotrjw wrote: »
    I believe you can pt whatever postcode you like as the main one and the have whatever different BBC 1 region you like meaning a possible HD region if thats on the list of possible sections.
    In England at least, you're limited to swapping only the SD regions on 101.
  • M60M60 Posts: 5,595
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    What would be good would be for C4 to lease a second TP, stick four more C4HD region variants on there and then the whole UK can LCN swap on both Sky and Freesat. I'm actually surprised, given C4's commitment to being close to technology, and as the first PSB to launch an HD simulcast, that they wouldn't be keener to do this. Obviously it all comes down to money but as the other PSB's start to do this then I'm surprised that C4 won't want to feel left out.
  • pburke90pburke90 Posts: 14,757
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    If they had more space, a HD transponder with all their HD channels FTA would be preferable to multiple C4HD regions. Just put UK wide only ads on 4HD and remove the need for having each region in HD for the sole reason of showing adverts. A complete waste of space IMO.
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