[Styker]

Originally Posted by Inspiration

Offers were made pre and post 9/11 to hand him over but they could never agree on the person to hand him over to or regarding evidence. This article covers it quite well:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2...334167663.html

I have my doubts that it would have stopped the war however.

I always thought the Taliban where taking the michael on evidence. There is a cliche that you can't prove a negative and maybe that is not true in all cases but there was plenty of form on Al Qaeda with the attacks they did in the 90's. Who else had the motives/intent and form of wanting to attack America in that way?

Again it was the second attack on the World Trade Centre too following the first 8 years earlier in 1993.

[Dunnroamin]

Originally Posted by Styker

You choose not to believe, thats up to you. No need to be rude and imo try and mock/bait those that do beleive in a religion!

Fortunately I was not too intensively indoctinated into Roman Catholicism while still a child and incapable of critical reasoning (apart from an occasional slap from my teacher on Monday if I had failed to go to Mass on Sunday), so, when I was old enough I chose not to become subserviant to the Pope, unlike those kids we saw on TV being prodded and poked by a bully with an iron bar to encourage them to absorb every dot and comma of the religious stories that are intended to govern the rest of their lives, both concious and subconcious, thus ensuring they become unthinking, unquestioning sheep, totally under the control of their religious leaders, as is the case of the other millions of kids in Islamic countries, squatting in long rows, rocking to and fro to reinforce the indoctination. Let them first reach adulthood without pressure to follow any religion, then allow them to make up their own minds, this applies to all the other organised religions also.

[haphash]

Originally Posted by Dunnroamin

I can't understand how intelligent, thinking, educated people, can be brainwashed in their youth to believe in the fairy story of religion - any religion. Even our Royals and politicians with the benefit of the finest education available, follow the rituals and incantations performed in grand, ornate buildings by preachers dressed in medieval garments. Consider: an ordinary man, made of flesh and blood, like the rest of us, but living in an earlier age, an age of ignorance and supersticion, declares he is either the Son of God or has had personal contact with God, and people believed him. Of course they believed him, these were people who, at that time, believed in demons, witches and goblins, but surely we have moved on from then. How gullible can people be? If I declared I had had personal communication with God, and that He had appointed me His personal representative on earth, in no time at all, men in white coats would be hauling me off to the funny farm. It is time for ALL religions to be consigned to history, and for the world to concentrate on being human and humane. The first step should be to outlaw the hothouse indoctrination of minors into the contents of any Holy book until they are of an age where they can make an informed choice as to whether they want to accept or reject what the books purport to be the truth.

I agree wholeheartedly. Unfortunately I don't think it will happen in my lifetime.

I was against us going into Afghanistan and I would like us to withdraw now because I can't see that we have done an iota of good there. It has to be the free choice of the people who live in that country to throw off the past and embrace change. I seriously doubt its goining to happen though.

[riceuten]

Originally Posted by Styker

I'm absoloutely fed up with so many MP's, people in the media generally making out that we can leave Afghanistan NOW even and that everything will be alright with regards to british and western interests!/B]

The threat of another invasion, and/or carpet bombing, probably

[moonburn]

Sadly I think thats what Will happen.
And most agree the role Pakistan is playing if the remit is to elimate the thread then going into pakistan would make much more sense because the training camps are based there for some time.
The mere fact Bin Laden was living there says so much.

Theres been terrible corruption Aid money has been wasted and taken away and allowing the people to see a quality of life getting slightly better would have helped so much.The taliban can claim whats changed in terms of peoples living conditions NATO are hated.People dont see any real change.

Just look at Iraq.The BBC report on how Gay/Lesbians are being killed on a weekly basis is just disgusting and shocking to think people died trying to 'liberate' that country and western media outlets on the whole avoid reporting just how barbaric things are.Then people wonder why people from Iraq are leaving and seeking Asylum.

the entire thing is a mess bush decided he wanted to finish Daddys job.fighting One front was bad enough but then adding Afghanistan into the mix really meant any mission was going to fail.Billions has been spent and basically years on Nato are unable to trust the people they helped train.IED's are still killing people on a weekly basis.

The entire thing has been a total mess because it was based on half arsed ideas and the people have suffered.Families have lost loved ones the entire point was to make Afghanistan more secure and all the Taliban did was more camps to Pakistan and send people back into Afghanistan.

[Jellied Eel]

Originally Posted by oldfogey101

Step 1 - Leave
Step 2 - Let the ensuing Civil War run its course until a stable government forms (even if backward)
Step 3 - Flood the areas with development aid/education - best way to kill off an ideology that takes root because of poverty and the horrors of war.

Nice idea, but bindun. Generally fails on Step 3 because the development money gets stolen, the schools get burned down and the teachers killed. Last thing any dictatorship wants is an educated population and the heroin money will keep funding whoever controls it.

The only way it could vaguely work is turning the country into a DMZ and sealing it's borders to prevent arms and drugs smuggling.. Which is a massively expensive and risky undertaking.

[oldfogey101]

Originally Posted by Jellied Eel

Nice idea, but bindun. Generally fails on Step 3 because the development money gets stolen, the schools get burned down and the teachers killed. Last thing any dictatorship wants is an educated population and the heroin money will keep funding whoever controls it.

The only way it could vaguely work is turning the country into a DMZ and sealing it's borders to prevent arms and drugs smuggling.. Which is a massively expensive and risky undertaking.

NATO didn't have the willpower to implement it (NGOs, government officials nicked all the money for development). There's really no strong reason why NATO would be motivated to develop it - Afghanistan is in Asia, NATO is the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. Developing Afghanistan wouldn't be the main objective. Securing it would, but that's a short-sighted, temporary solution. I think NATO hoped government officials and NGOs that were put to develop the country would have had the sense, or patriotism to develop the country, instead of making a quick buck. Which they were wrong about.

On the other hand, the Chinese and Russians do have a much bigger stake in developing Afghanistan. It's likely the Chinese and Russians will succeed where NATO didn't - Pakistan is important here (specifically Chinese and Pakistani interests).

I think your DMZ idea would work too, as an alternative - it's just not feasible because the borders are too big and because there's already too many armaments in Afghanistan.

The end result will be the Afghans establishing their own security backed by the Russians and Chinese. I think this is the end of the Great Game in Afghanistan - or Part 1 at least.

[SULLA]

There will be a brutal civil war and unilke NATO, neither side will have one arm tied behind it's back.