My friends and I are all nearing seventy and we were all groped. It neither frightened nor traumatised us except that I do remember the first and I was a very innocent 12 year old. He went straight for his target between my legs and it did shock me but I got over it and never told anyone.
That was the worst. If I adjusted to that at that age so should these silly women. Tweaked and pinched Some girls were envious.
Today you would be told you were 'molested' (buzzword for groping now), deprived of your innocence, sent for counselling, psycho-analysed, and God alone knows what else. And of course there wasn't much money to be made from breakfast telly appearances, the media, and Big Brother hadn't come to our screens either.
If a woman....no of course you won't agree but if you are a bloke......try it and you'll soon find out.
Just don't say i didn't tell you what would happen.
The greater implication seems to be that the powers that be are biased one way or another in terms of gender. I suggest it depends on the luck of the draw. I am a woman and as someone who was raped I can tell you the authorities were not in my quarter and I was treated very poorly when I reported it. Likewise I'm sure there are men who find themselves in a situation where allegations have either been made or they are making allegations and they are treated unsatisfactorily.
What I am saying is I don't believe there is a hidden agenda. The way you are treated to a certain extent depends on the individuals you are faced with.
The greater implication seems to be that the powers that be are biased one way or another in terms of gender. I suggest it depends on the luck of the draw. I am a woman and as someone who was raped I can tell you the authorities were not in my quarter and I was treated very poorly when I reported it. Likewise I'm sure there are men who find themselves in a situation where allegations have either been made or they are making allegations and they are treated unsatisfactorily.
What I am saying is I don't believe there is a hidden agenda. The way you are treated to a certain extent depends on the individuals you are faced with.
Not sure how old you are but a lot of men and interestingly, some women (generally older) would say the whole 'equality' issue with men has swung way too far.
I didn't particularly want to get into the 'rape debate' but as you've mentioned it, that's a good example of where things have just gone too far the other way. From your own experience which i'm sorry to read of and hope you won't take that as a patronising remark because it's not, as you said, 'the authorities were not in my quarter and I was treated very poorly'.
Today as i'm sure you are well aware it would be an entirely different experience. The male perpetrator will be named along with photograph published in a national newspaper. You on the other hand would be afforded total and absolute anonymity.
But then guess what.......bang, the case collapses when it's discovered the allegations made against the 'rapist' (so called) turn out to be nothing but a tissue of lies and the case is thrown out of Court.
The only problem is irreparable damage has now been done. That mans entire life, reputation, and future lies in tattered ruins whilst his accuser retains her anonymity.
There was a case recently which you may remember involving a lad who was a University Students Union President where this had happened. Not only had his accuser made false allegations, two University 'feminist activists' had been busily grinding their axes and encouraging this girl to continue to lie.
That young mans details were splashed all over the national media.
Where was her photograph and details? Nowhere to be seen. Vamooshed......disappeared into sweet comfortable oblivion to continue her life as normal.
Whether she has since been prosecuted nobody knows, but imo she should have been with all her personal detail and photograph published so men and women can avoid her as she's a very dangerous nasty piece of work.
I worry about this quote. It seems very them and us.
Sadly it's gone that way.......or can you still not see that?
I know it's not popular but i'm not looking to 'be popular'. It's fact and reality which sits uncomfortably with some people because it's more trendy today to express 'pc' opinions.
Not sure how old you are but a lot of men and interestingly, some women (generally older) would say the whole 'equality' issue with men has swung way too far.
I didn't particularly want to get into the 'rape debate' but as you've mentioned it, that's a good example of where things have just gone too far the other way. From your own experience which i'm sorry to read of and hope you won't take that as a patronising remark because it's not, as you said, 'the authorities were not in my quarter and I was treated very poorly'.
Today as i'm sure you are well aware it would be an entirely different experience. The male perpetrator will be named along with photograph published in a national newspaper. You on the other hand would be afforded total and absolute anonymity.
But then guess what.......bang, the case collapses when it's discovered the allegations made against the 'rapist' (so called) turn out to be nothing but a tissue of lies and the case is thrown out of Court.
The only problem is irreparable damage has now been done. That mans entire life, reputation, and future lies in tattered ruins whilst his accuser retains her anonymity.
There was a case recently which you may remember involving a lad who was a University Students Union President where this had happened. Not only had his accuser made false allegations, two University 'feminist activists' had been busily grinding their axes and encouraging this girl to continue to lie.
That young mans details were splashed all over the national media.
Where was her photograph and details? Nowhere to be seen. Vamooshed......disappeared into sweet comfortable oblivion to continue her life as normal.
Whether she has since been prosecuted nobody knows, but imo she should have been with all her personal detail and photograph published so men and women can avoid her as she's a very dangerous nasty piece of work.
Sadly it's gone that way.......or can you still not see that?
I know it's not popular but i'm not looking to 'be popular'. It's fact and reality which sits uncomfortably with some people because it's more trendy today to express 'pc' opinions.
I 100% agree that anonymity should be extended to both sides.
At the conclusion of the trial, if the man is found guilty, only then should he be named.
This girl was in her twenties and was not initially molested. It is strange that she didn't move away before his hand touched her breast, because it would normally be an instinctive reaction, but everyone is different.
I am not sure how a "molester" is supposed to tell the difference between the "victim" being "frozen" and allowing a (possibly?) "casting couch moment" to happen?
Oh my f*cking good god!
How about no one ever touches any women in a inappropriate way ever! That way these "Poor" "poor" men wont get a thump or taken to court by these nasty women.
The greater implication seems to be that the powers that be are biased one way or another in terms of gender. I suggest it depends on the luck of the draw. I am a woman and as someone who was raped I can tell you the authorities were not in my quarter and I was treated very poorly when I reported it. Likewise I'm sure there are men who find themselves in a situation where allegations have either been made or they are making allegations and they are treated unsatisfactorily.
What I am saying is I don't believe there is a hidden agenda. The way you are treated to a certain extent depends on the individuals you are faced with.
I too was treated very badly at age 15. A man in his 40s got me into his home and raped me. The police were called by his landlady as she heard me crying. The police broke down the door and all hell broke out.
Guess what the policeman said to me.. "Because of you, this man will go to prison". My crime? To not be a virgin. I never did find out what happened to this man.. dont even know if they let him off or not. But there you go, as a female of the species, its not my place to question.
Old boys like the poster who replied to you about this post of yours make me so angry and so sad. He cannot see beyond his stupid nose.
We are either lying or exaggerating a "normal" grope. >:(
My friends and I are all nearing seventy and we were all groped. It neither frightened nor traumatised us except that I do remember the first and I was a very innocent 12 year old. He went straight for his target between my legs and it did shock me but I got over it and never told anyone.
That was the worst. If I adjusted to that at that age so should these silly women. Tweaked and pinched Some girls were envious.
ETA. If a man were to pinch my bum now I'd be delighted. Memories...
Well good for you! That man probably went on to rape a child, but that's OK isnt it.
I never told people about the times I were groped and man handled but now I regret that and would never laugh about it and think "this will make me popular with the old boys on DS"
I cant even begin to say what is wrong with this post.
Get over it some girls would love that I showed this much interest in them..
Is this your way of saying you were popular? Do you think those that were not groped, were jealous of you. Very warped way of thinking. The type of thinking men relied on in those days.
Lucky my granddaughters ( and my grandson) wont put up with this type of crap and warped thinking. The dinosaurs are dying off thank god!
How about no one ever touches any women in a inappropriate way ever! That way these "Poor" "poor" men wont get a thump or taken to court by these nasty women.
Replace woman with men if you so wish.
Yeah, I'm really uncomfortable with that line of argument too. It seems to suggest that people should be allowed an exploratory grope to test the water, which I'm pretty sure they shouldn't be.
Well good for you! That man probably went on to rape a child, but that's OK isnt it.
I never told people about the times I were groped and man handled but now I regret that and would never laugh about it and think "this will make me popular with the old boys on DS"
I cant even begin to say what is wrong with this post.
Get over it some girls would love that I showed this much interest in them..
Is this your way of saying you were popular? Do you think those that were not groped, were jealous of you. Very warped way of thinking. The type of thinking men relied on in those days.
Lucky my granddaughters ( and my grandson) wont put up with this type of crap and warped thinking. The dinosaurs are dying off thank god!
You can hardly compare a man being a bit touchy feely with then going on to rape a child! Someone pinching your bum to someone raping a child have to be such different, worlds apart cases, that to include the two in the same sentence is bizarre. I agree with owllover in as much as women wouldn't have fallen apart the instant someone touched them without being invited to....
I'm not completely aware of the DLT case, only that he has been found guilty.
What I'm confused about is that if he's been found guilty of touching a womans breasts many years ago, then how on earth was this allowed to come to court in the first place!
What a minor, minor thing for a court to waste their time on. It would be far better serving the public, for them to concéntrate on serious sexual assault, and rape, and on men who are a real serious danger to women and children.
But this? Does she really feel a "victim" because someone touched her breast years ago?! Is she really that weak and insecure, and she doesn't possess a backbone!
It's similar to someone going to the supreme court for a 25 pound IOU isn't it?
Or maybe it's just me who isn't in complete control of the facts, and in fact he has been found guilty of serious sexual assault crimes?
I never told people about the times I were groped and man handled but now I regret that and would never laugh about it and think "this will make me popular with the old boys on DS"
I cant even begin to say what is wrong with this post.
Get over it some girls would love that I showed this much interest in them..
Is this your way of saying you were popular? Do you think those that were not groped, were jealous of you. Very warped way of thinking. The type of thinking men relied on in those days.
Lucky my granddaughters ( and my grandson) wont put up with this type of crap and warped thinking. The dinosaurs are dying off thank god!
[HIGHLIGHT]QUOTED FOR UTTER TRUTH.[/HIGHLIGHT]
i don`t know how anyone can attempt to justify someone groping someone else uninvited, let alone think that exercising the laws that reinforce this message is going too far.
You can hardly compare a man being a bit touchy feely with then going on to rape a child! Someone pinching your bum to someone raping a child have to be such different, worlds apart cases, that to include the two in the same sentence is bizarre. I agree with owllover in as much as women wouldn't have fallen apart the instant someone touched them without being invited to....
If you read the original post again the man in question did more than that when she was 12 years old.
You can hardly compare a man being a bit touchy feely with then going on to rape a child! Someone pinching your bum to someone raping a child have to be such different, worlds apart cases, that to include the two in the same sentence is bizarre. I agree with owllover in as much as women wouldn't have fallen apart the instant someone touched them without being invited to....
I'm not completely aware of the DLT case, only that he has been found guilty.
What I'm confused about is that if he's been found guilty of touching a womans breasts many years ago, then how on earth was this allowed to come to court in the first place!
What a minor, minor thing for a court to waste their time on. It would be far better serving the public, for them to concéntrate on serious sexual assault, and rape, and on men who are a real serious danger to women and children.
But this? Does she really feel a "victim" because someone touched her breast years ago?! Is she really that weak and insecure, and she doesn't possess a backbone!
It's similar to someone going to the supreme court for a 25 pound IOU isn't it?
Or maybe it's just me who isn't in complete control of the facts, and in fact he has been found guilty of serious sexual assault crimes?
Maybe read the post I quoted! She was 12 years old, its not a big jump from someone groping a 12 year old to forcing a 12 yo to have sex!
You can hardly compare a man being a bit touchy feely with then going on to rape a child! Someone pinching your bum to someone raping a child have to be such different, worlds apart cases, that to include the two in the same sentence is bizarre. I agree with owllover in as much as women wouldn't have fallen apart the instant someone touched them without being invited to....
If you read the original post again the man in question did more than that when she was 12 years old.
I was shocked reading that. But it did occur to me that perhaps it wasn't a man, but a 12ish year old lad that had done it, it would be useful if Owllover could clarify.
i don`t know how anyone can attempt to justify someone groping someone else uninvited, let alone think that exercising the laws that reinforce this message is going too far.
I really cannot believe what I am reading in here. I was made to feel unimportant all those years ago and some members are still trying to make us feel unimportant now.
Its my body and if I dont want you to touch it then dont bloody touch it. I should not have to stop you, you just should not be doing it!
Don't call me a prude or a lesbian. or try to flatter me by saying I'm prettier than my friends. Don't tell me not to be so silly. I have seen and heard all of it. Don't try to justifier it by saying "its just a little grope" Its much more than that, unless you are the type of person who really believes the rubbish some men come out with to allow them to "give a little grope"
How about no one ever touches any women in a inappropriate way ever! That way these "Poor" "poor" men wont get a thump or taken to court by these nasty women.
Replace woman with men if you so wish.
I am astounded that anyone could interpret my comments as condoning groping. The point was that she was touched on the midriff at first, not the breast. Passes are often made in situations like this where one party will "allow" gradually more intimate touching.
My question is the same. How does a man (or woman) know if he is being allowed more intimate contact or if the other person is "frozen" without being a mind-reader?
Well good for you! That man probably went on to rape a child, but that's OK isnt it.
I never told people about the times I were groped and man handled but now I regret that and would never laugh about it and think "this will make me popular with the old boys on DS"
I cant even begin to say what is wrong with this post.
Get over it some girls would love that I showed this much interest in them..
Is this your way of saying you were popular? Do you think those that were not groped, were jealous of you. Very warped way of thinking. The type of thinking men relied on in those days.
Lucky my granddaughters ( and my grandson) wont put up with this type of crap and warped thinking. The dinosaurs are dying off thank god!
I didn't see anyone say "this will make me popular"
As was pointed out in the DLT trial, different people have different ways of coping. Some, like DLT's victim (and possibly the poster you responded to?) prefer to laugh it off, and others wont talk about it.
However odd it seems, it is up to the victim to deal with it however they are best able, without being judged for it..
What you describe as "crap and warped thinking" was not unusual, and at least it allowed people to put it behind them, rather than the current way, which sometimes gives victims the impression that their lives have been ruined for ever, and gives the attacker continuing power over them.
Different people have different ways, and the experience is horrible enough without being attacked further for not reacting "appropriately"
What I'm confused about is that if he's been found guilty of touching a womans breasts many years ago, then how on earth was this allowed to come to court in the first place!
What a minor, minor thing for a court to waste their time on. It would be far better serving the public, for them to concéntrate on serious sexual assault, and rape, and on men who are a real serious danger to women and children.
But this? Does she really feel a "victim" because someone touched her breast years ago?! Is she really that weak and insecure, and she doesn't possess a backbone!
It's similar to someone going to the supreme court for a 25 pound IOU isn't it?
Or maybe it's just me who isn't in complete control of the facts, and in fact he has been found guilty of serious sexual assault crimes?
It seems from DLT's original trial and the other yewtree trials that the CPS is trying to establish a pattern of behaviour - a whole stack of relatively minor offenses which bolster a more serious charge. This worked with Rolf, but with DLT they have ended up in the odd position of having 14 of the 15 charges fail and the only one he's been found guilty of being one that seems rather trivial.
Yeah, I'm really uncomfortable with that line of argument too. It seems to suggest that people should be allowed an exploratory grope to test the water, which I'm pretty sure they shouldn't be.
The exploratory test of the water is usually (as in this case) in a non sexual place, and usually the rebuff would happen before it gets further.
I am not condemning the victim for not reacting, but you can see how a misunderstanding might happen.
I wouldn't describe "I was a very innocent 12 year old. He went straight for his target between my legs"
as "being a bit touchy feely".
But you might if you were brought up in a culture where it is considered normal. I very much hope that no child feels that way today, and it shows why awareness and sensitive handling of complaints should be a priority.
I am astounded that anyone could interpret my comments as condoning groping. The point was that she was touched on the midriff at first, not the breast. Passes are often made in situations like this where one party will "allow" gradually more intimate touching.
My question is the same. How does a man (or woman) know if he is being allowed more intimate contact or if the other person is "frozen" without being a mind-reader?
I didn't see anyone say "this will make me popular"
As was pointed out in the DLT trial, different people have different ways of coping. Some, like DLT's victim (and possibly the poster you responded to?) prefer to laugh it off, and others wont talk about it.
However odd it seems, it is up to the victim to deal with it however they are best able, without being judged for it..
What you describe as "crap and warped thinking" was not unusual, and at least it allowed people to put it behind them, rather than the current way, which sometimes gives victims the impression that their lives have been ruined for ever, and gives the attacker continuing power over them.
Different people have different ways, and the experience is horrible enough without being attacked further for not reacting "appropriately"
Why would you even think its OK for a complete stranger to touch you "to see if the way was clear for going further" Its not right why even think it is
You dont think the lady was boasting or thinking she was popular and her friends were "maybe" jealous.
But you might if you were brought up in a culture where it is considered normal. I very much hope that no child feels that way today, and it shows why awareness and sensitive handling of complaints should be a priority.
I agree with this but some posters are trying to say its still OK and we should not complain and its part of life.
Comments
Just don't say i didn't tell you what would happen.
I'll do you a 'freebie' as long as you don't clonk me one.
The greater implication seems to be that the powers that be are biased one way or another in terms of gender. I suggest it depends on the luck of the draw. I am a woman and as someone who was raped I can tell you the authorities were not in my quarter and I was treated very poorly when I reported it. Likewise I'm sure there are men who find themselves in a situation where allegations have either been made or they are making allegations and they are treated unsatisfactorily.
What I am saying is I don't believe there is a hidden agenda. The way you are treated to a certain extent depends on the individuals you are faced with.
I worry about this quote. It sees very them and us.
I didn't particularly want to get into the 'rape debate' but as you've mentioned it, that's a good example of where things have just gone too far the other way. From your own experience which i'm sorry to read of and hope you won't take that as a patronising remark because it's not, as you said, 'the authorities were not in my quarter and I was treated very poorly'.
Today as i'm sure you are well aware it would be an entirely different experience. The male perpetrator will be named along with photograph published in a national newspaper. You on the other hand would be afforded total and absolute anonymity.
But then guess what.......bang, the case collapses when it's discovered the allegations made against the 'rapist' (so called) turn out to be nothing but a tissue of lies and the case is thrown out of Court.
The only problem is irreparable damage has now been done. That mans entire life, reputation, and future lies in tattered ruins whilst his accuser retains her anonymity.
There was a case recently which you may remember involving a lad who was a University Students Union President where this had happened. Not only had his accuser made false allegations, two University 'feminist activists' had been busily grinding their axes and encouraging this girl to continue to lie.
That young mans details were splashed all over the national media.
Where was her photograph and details? Nowhere to be seen. Vamooshed......disappeared into sweet comfortable oblivion to continue her life as normal.
Whether she has since been prosecuted nobody knows, but imo she should have been with all her personal detail and photograph published so men and women can avoid her as she's a very dangerous nasty piece of work.
Sadly it's gone that way.......or can you still not see that?
I know it's not popular but i'm not looking to 'be popular'. It's fact and reality which sits uncomfortably with some people because it's more trendy today to express 'pc' opinions.
I 100% agree that anonymity should be extended to both sides.
At the conclusion of the trial, if the man is found guilty, only then should he be named.
Oh my f*cking good god!
How about no one ever touches any women in a inappropriate way ever! That way these "Poor" "poor" men wont get a thump or taken to court by these nasty women.
Replace woman with men if you so wish.
I too was treated very badly at age 15. A man in his 40s got me into his home and raped me. The police were called by his landlady as she heard me crying. The police broke down the door and all hell broke out.
Guess what the policeman said to me.. "Because of you, this man will go to prison". My crime? To not be a virgin. I never did find out what happened to this man.. dont even know if they let him off or not. But there you go, as a female of the species, its not my place to question.
Old boys like the poster who replied to you about this post of yours make me so angry and so sad. He cannot see beyond his stupid nose.
We are either lying or exaggerating a "normal" grope. >:(
Well good for you! That man probably went on to rape a child, but that's OK isnt it.
I never told people about the times I were groped and man handled but now I regret that and would never laugh about it and think "this will make me popular with the old boys on DS"
I cant even begin to say what is wrong with this post.
Get over it some girls would love that I showed this much interest in them..
Is this your way of saying you were popular? Do you think those that were not groped, were jealous of you. Very warped way of thinking. The type of thinking men relied on in those days.
Lucky my granddaughters ( and my grandson) wont put up with this type of crap and warped thinking. The dinosaurs are dying off thank god!
Perhaps that will now make people think twice about groping others.
Yeah, I'm really uncomfortable with that line of argument too. It seems to suggest that people should be allowed an exploratory grope to test the water, which I'm pretty sure they shouldn't be.
I'm not completely aware of the DLT case, only that he has been found guilty.
What I'm confused about is that if he's been found guilty of touching a womans breasts many years ago, then how on earth was this allowed to come to court in the first place!
What a minor, minor thing for a court to waste their time on. It would be far better serving the public, for them to concéntrate on serious sexual assault, and rape, and on men who are a real serious danger to women and children.
But this? Does she really feel a "victim" because someone touched her breast years ago?! Is she really that weak and insecure, and she doesn't possess a backbone!
It's similar to someone going to the supreme court for a 25 pound IOU isn't it?
Or maybe it's just me who isn't in complete control of the facts, and in fact he has been found guilty of serious sexual assault crimes?
[HIGHLIGHT]QUOTED FOR UTTER TRUTH.[/HIGHLIGHT]
i don`t know how anyone can attempt to justify someone groping someone else uninvited, let alone think that exercising the laws that reinforce this message is going too far.
Maybe read the post I quoted! She was 12 years old, its not a big jump from someone groping a 12 year old to forcing a 12 yo to have sex!
I wouldn't describe
as "being a bit touchy feely".
I was shocked reading that. But it did occur to me that perhaps it wasn't a man, but a 12ish year old lad that had done it, it would be useful if Owllover could clarify.
I really cannot believe what I am reading in here. I was made to feel unimportant all those years ago and some members are still trying to make us feel unimportant now.
Its my body and if I dont want you to touch it then dont bloody touch it. I should not have to stop you, you just should not be doing it!
Don't call me a prude or a lesbian. or try to flatter me by saying I'm prettier than my friends. Don't tell me not to be so silly. I have seen and heard all of it. Don't try to justifier it by saying "its just a little grope" Its much more than that, unless you are the type of person who really believes the rubbish some men come out with to allow them to "give a little grope"
My question is the same. How does a man (or woman) know if he is being allowed more intimate contact or if the other person is "frozen" without being a mind-reader?
I didn't see anyone say "this will make me popular"
As was pointed out in the DLT trial, different people have different ways of coping. Some, like DLT's victim (and possibly the poster you responded to?) prefer to laugh it off, and others wont talk about it.
However odd it seems, it is up to the victim to deal with it however they are best able, without being judged for it..
What you describe as "crap and warped thinking" was not unusual, and at least it allowed people to put it behind them, rather than the current way, which sometimes gives victims the impression that their lives have been ruined for ever, and gives the attacker continuing power over them.
Different people have different ways, and the experience is horrible enough without being attacked further for not reacting "appropriately"
It seems from DLT's original trial and the other yewtree trials that the CPS is trying to establish a pattern of behaviour - a whole stack of relatively minor offenses which bolster a more serious charge. This worked with Rolf, but with DLT they have ended up in the odd position of having 14 of the 15 charges fail and the only one he's been found guilty of being one that seems rather trivial.
The exploratory test of the water is usually (as in this case) in a non sexual place, and usually the rebuff would happen before it gets further.
I am not condemning the victim for not reacting, but you can see how a misunderstanding might happen.
But you might if you were brought up in a culture where it is considered normal. I very much hope that no child feels that way today, and it shows why awareness and sensitive handling of complaints should be a priority.
Why would you even think its OK for a complete stranger to touch you "to see if the way was clear for going further"
You dont think the lady was boasting or thinking she was popular and her friends were "maybe" jealous.
http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showpost.php?p=74937519&postcount=276
I agree with this but some posters are trying to say its still OK and we should not complain and its part of life.