Hey,
I wondered about people's opinions on something someone just said to me today - would someone with Aspergers say they are "autistic" or not? While Aspergers is a form of autism, autism itself is a spectrum, and even if it turned out I do have Aspergers, I'm not happy at all saying I'm an autistic person
I would also submit that, contrary to what was said, that Aspergers is a learning disability.
I'm sorry I just felt a bit upset by what I heard
Hey,
I wondered about people's opinions on something someone just said to me today - would someone with Aspergers say they are "autistic" or not? While Aspergers is a form of autism, autism itself is a spectrum, and even if it turned out I do have Aspergers, I'm not happy at all saying I'm an autistic person
I would also submit that, contrary to what was said, that Aspergers is a learning disability.
I'm sorry I just felt a bit upset by what I heard
It sounds as though your diagnosis wasn't properly explained to you when it was given, although it's a very confusing area.
The original criteria for diagnosis of Asperger Syndrome states very clearly that it is NOT a learning disability. It's all semantics really but basically if you have an IQ of 70 or more you are deemed NOT to have a learning difficulty/disability.
If your IQ is less than 70 and you have autism, it's classic, or Kanner's, autism. If higher than 70 then you may be diagnosed high functioning autism or Asperger's. The latter two terms are usually used to describe the same thing (by confused clinicians, there may be some variance as to what they consider each to be). I have met people who have being diagnosed as having autism who clearly have Asperger's and vice versa. A lot depends on the diagnostic criteria used - DSM IV, ICD 10, or DSM 5.
There's a move in the medical profession towards everyone being diagnosed 'ASD' (autistic spectrum disorder). However, the recently revised diagnostic criteria (DSM 5) didn't 'remove' Asperger's as a diagnosis as such, they just brought it under the autism spectrum where it has always belonged. It is and always has been a form of autism. That should have been explained to you when you were given your diagnosis.
Unfortunately the DSM5 intention to simplify the 'label' to 'autism spectrum disorder' and give it levels (according to how severely you are impacted by autism) doesn't really help those people who identify strongly with 'Asperger's' or 'being an Aspie'. There's also been a lot of controversy about the DSM5 for a variety of reasons I won't bore you with - plenty of stuff you can google.
So the short answer is that if you have Asperger's, yes, you're autistic, or a person with autism, or whatever term you prefer. Autism itself is a recognised disability but ill-informed services will vary as to whether they call it a learning disability. As I said above, strictly speaking someone with Asperger's doesn't meet learning disability criteria... it's why some find it so hard to access services. Any autism spectrum diagnosis should give access to support and the ability to challenge services under the terms of the Equality Act and now the Care Act if they say you don't meet their criteria.
Told you it was confusing but hope that hasn't made it worse
My son has autism but is in mainstream education. He's currently in year 5 primary. He's done really well at his current school but next year is his last before he goes into secondary school.
I've got 2 questions.
I'm absolutely to dreading it because I'm scared he'll be bullied. What is the transition from primary to secondary like for those of you with autistic children in mainstream education?
Secondly, I want him to go to a Catholic school outside of our catchment area. The main reason is the school is very good and has been recommended to us as a good choice by SEN people at the primary he is in now. We're not Catholic but the SEN people say he won't have any problems getting in. How would his application be treated? What should I be doing now?
My son has autism but is in mainstream education. He's currently in year 5 primary. He's done really well at his current school but next year is his last before he goes into secondary school.
I've got 2 questions.
I'm absolutely to dreading it because I'm scared he'll be bullied. What is the transition from primary to secondary like for those of you with autistic children in mainstream education?
Secondly, I want him to go to a Catholic school outside of our catchment area. The main reason is the school is very good and has been recommended to us as a good choice by SEN people at the primary he is in now. We're not Catholic but the SEN people say he won't have any problems getting in. How would his application be treated? What should I be doing now?
Firstly check what the admission criteria is for the school you want. You can argue a good case for SEN but it's worth checking their rules out. They will be on the school's website or if not they should be freely available from the school.
Visit the school yourself and see what vibe you get from it. That's actually the single most important thing you can do. Don't take your child - school visits tend to upset and unsettle kids with autism and really this is your decision as you know what's best for him.
If he has a statement/EHCP you have far more chance of getting him into the school you want, but the local authority may not cover transport if it's not the nearest suitable provision. That's something to think about but can be challenged. IPSEA will help you if your LA is not co-operative.
I would avoid mentioning transition to him until he mentions it. Year 6 is tough enough with SATS etc - try not to let him pick up on your anxiety as that will just heighten his own.
Once you've made a decision, arrange lots of visits to the school he's allocated, get him there taking pictures of the place and some of the staff he will encounter (if they will let you - some schools can be very precious about this sort of thing) and make him a transition story. If you have a local autism outreach service they might be able to help you do that if it's something you haven't done before.
Finally - get the SEN team on your side at the new place, make sure communication is as two-way as possible - email often works better than a home-school book system. The sole aim for the first year should be for him to settle in and don't expect everything to go smoothly - it doesn't do that even for loads of neurotypical kids - it's a big change. Decide in advance where you can what you'll challenge and what you'll let go. None of us wants to be the parent the staff dread talking to - but equally with hindsight I wish I had challenged a lot more when mine went through this stage.
It sounds as though your diagnosis wasn't properly explained to you when it was given, although it's a very confusing area.
The original criteria for diagnosis of Asperger Syndrome states very clearly that it is NOT a learning disability. It's all semantics really but basically if you have an IQ of 70 or more you are deemed NOT to have a learning difficulty/disability.
If your IQ is less than 70 and you have autism, it's classic, or Kanner's, autism. If higher than 70 then you may be diagnosed high functioning autism or Asperger's. The latter two terms are usually used to describe the same thing (by confused clinicians, there may be some variance as to what they consider each to be). I have met people who have being diagnosed as having autism who clearly have Asperger's and vice versa. A lot depends on the diagnostic criteria used - DSM IV, ICD 10, or DSM 5.
There's a move in the medical profession towards everyone being diagnosed 'ASD' (autistic spectrum disorder). However, the recently revised diagnostic criteria (DSM 5) didn't 'remove' Asperger's as a diagnosis as such, they just brought it under the autism spectrum where it has always belonged. It is and always has been a form of autism. That should have been explained to you when you were given your diagnosis.
Unfortunately the DSM5 intention to simplify the 'label' to 'autism spectrum disorder' and give it levels (according to how severely you are impacted by autism) doesn't really help those people who identify strongly with 'Asperger's' or 'being an Aspie'. There's also been a lot of controversy about the DSM5 for a variety of reasons I won't bore you with - plenty of stuff you can google.
So the short answer is that if you have Asperger's, yes, you're autistic, or a person with autism, or whatever term you prefer. Autism itself is a recognised disability but ill-informed services will vary as to whether they call it a learning disability. As I said above, strictly speaking someone with Asperger's doesn't meet learning disability criteria... it's why some find it so hard to access services. Any autism spectrum diagnosis should give access to support and the ability to challenge services under the terms of the Equality Act and now the Care Act if they say you don't meet their criteria.
Told you it was confusing but hope that hasn't made it worse
Thank you I'll talk to a doctor/counsellor about it - it is a bit confusing for me personally As I havent ever had a diagnosis like "You have Aspergers" just that I MAY fit some of their criteria or I have traits of it, or something like that. This was a few years ago though. I think I may be HFA or mild Aspergers.
Basically, as far as I can see I dont think aspergers/autism has that big an impact on me, though I do find some social situations difficult, amongst other things
Its just what this person said annoyed me and they werent health professionals/doctors etc
Firstly check what the admission criteria is for the school you want. You can argue a good case for SEN but it's worth checking their rules out. They will be on the school's website or if not they should be freely available from the school.
Visit the school yourself and see what vibe you get from it. That's actually the single most important thing you can do. Don't take your child - school visits tend to upset and unsettle kids with autism and really this is your decision as you know what's best for him.
If he has a statement/EHCP you have far more chance of getting him into the school you want, but the local authority may not cover transport if it's not the nearest suitable provision. That's something to think about but can be challenged. IPSEA will help you if your LA is not co-operative.
I would avoid mentioning transition to him until he mentions it. Year 6 is tough enough with SATS etc - try not to let him pick up on your anxiety as that will just heighten his own.
Once you've made a decision, arrange lots of visits to the school he's allocated, get him there taking pictures of the place and some of the staff he will encounter (if they will let you - some schools can be very precious about this sort of thing) and make him a transition story. If you have a local autism outreach service they might be able to help you do that if it's something you haven't done before.
Finally - get the SEN team on your side at the new place, make sure communication is as two-way as possible - email often works better than a home-school book system. The sole aim for the first year should be for him to settle in and don't expect everything to go smoothly - it doesn't do that even for loads of neurotypical kids - it's a big change. Decide in advance where you can what you'll challenge and what you'll let go. None of us wants to be the parent the staff dread talking to - but equally with hindsight I wish I had challenged a lot more when mine went through this stage.
Thanks
From what I've read the school has a separate admissions criteria for those going the SEN route.
How in your experiance do the child's peers react to the child wit Autism?
From what I've read the school has a separate admissions criteria for those going the SEN route.
How in your experiance do the child's peers react to the child wit Autism?
Can react very differently depending on the child, and the child's behaviour towards them, and the level of empathy and understanding of the peers. The school play a far more important role than some of them acknowledge in terms of facilitating development of friendships and fostering good social skills etc.
My eldest experienced some bullying which with hindsight I wish I had done more about. My youngest likewise. Both felt they had to just deal with it as the school didn't take anything seriously. There's often way too much acceptance of behaviour with the excuse 'they are just being kids' when in fact, you wouldn't accept that behaviour as an adult from another adult, so why should you take it from a peer just because you're younger?
However, some children with autism have huge difficulty in knowing when it's bullying and when kids are just teasing each other in a non-malicious way, and some equally can be vulnerable because they want to have friends so will pretty much do whatever other kids ask them to. So it's really important for them to have a good understanding of what a friend is. It sometimes helps to have a mentor - either a savvy peer or someone in the year above - to look out for them as well.
Thanks for that I was actually aware of this because I saw a trailer for this when I briefly had Channel 4 on earlier.
I have just came across this forum and thought I would bring the fact that I was diagnosed with high-functioning Asperger's Syndrome when I was 16. I understand totally how difficult it is for people on the autism spectrum and the problems it can bring. Although I luckily never had any behavioural problems at school, I did have a speech and language difficulty when I was younger and I did not overcome this fully until I was 7.
And yes, she has been a victim in the past. I can protect her now but what happens when I'm gone?
With two children with Autism I can see a mild version of this with my eldest, aged 11, who is desperate for a friend. (The younger can take or leave people dependent upon his mood).
A 'mate' calls for him sometimes when it's raining or when the mate wants money. Then my son takes money from his money box and they go to the shop and spend all he brings. We are working to explain the difference between a friend and someone who uses him but it's difficult because it is still some sort of social interaction which he craves. The concern is that as he gets older he will become vulnerable to more serious manipulation.
I watched The Autistic Gardener last night and I was puzzled by how Alan Gardner could be classed as autistic. Apart from being a bit of a wannabee Grayson Perry, he came across as a truly excellent presenter.
I watched The Autistic Gardener last night and I was puzzled by how Alan Gardner could be classed as autistic. Apart from being a bit of a wannabee Grayson Perry, he came across as a truly excellent presenter.
Not all autistic people appear to have any issues outwardly. I know that all people see in me is that something is a little different. I run a childcare center, I have an extensive reputation for being gifted with babies and toddlers, and promoting a stress free environment by just being myself. I could easily present a TV show in my field of work, without having to think too much it would come naturally. My neighbors would however say that I am stand offish, arrogant, and never say hi or good morning.
Maybe if you lived next to Alan Gardiner your perception may change.
With two children with Autism I can see a mild version of this with my eldest, aged 11, who is desperate for a friend. (The younger can take or leave people dependent upon his mood).
A 'mate' calls for him sometimes when it's raining or when the mate wants money. Then my son takes money from his money box and they go to the shop and spend all he brings. We are working to explain the difference between a friend and someone who uses him but it's difficult because it is still some sort of social interaction which he craves. The concern is that as he gets older he will become vulnerable to more serious manipulation.
We had this with my (now ex) partners daughter when she first went to secondary school. They had a card system for lunch, where we put money in the card so she could buy her lunch.
A few weeks in we found that £10 was only lasting a couple of days, where it should have lasted all week. We eventually discovered that she was buying lunch for half her class in an attempt to make friends.
She only lasted 3 months in a mainstream secondary school, she was bullied terribly and eventually tried to jump out of a first floor window. The head's response was to ask us to remove her from the school or she would be expelled anyway.
She then got a place at a local special school where she flourished and did very well.
She is now 20 and has recently got a small flat of her own and is living independently.
Seems to be a fair bit about ASC on TV recently..... finding it all a bit tricky to watch as they seem to show very one sided and often outdated experiences of it.
Part of me wants to be surprised at how good they are but then I feel that would be patronising as I know people with Autism can do great things if they get the help and support they need.
I think the good thing about this programme is that it shows how people with autism interact with each other and people in general. I'm probably more like Charlie than the others.
IMO People with autism just want to do the thing they are doing and don't really use these situations to socialise in the same way NTs would do.
Look forward to seeing the next garden they do. They certainly made good use of that small space.
I had a group of people with mental health problems work on my garden. They created a small pond, which unfortunately dried up, but has become over grown with ivy so makes a nice nature reserve for insects.
I watched The Autistic Gardener last night and I was puzzled by how Alan Gardner could be classed as autistic. Apart from being a bit of a wannabee Grayson Perry, he came across as a truly excellent presenter.
I think this post epitomises the kind of ignorance there is around autism. As a later poster already said, autism presents in many different ways, and many people create masks that they hide behind as a way to survive in an NT world.
I don't much like the implication that being autistic would mean that Alan couldn't be an excellent presenter, or have I read that wrong?
It just shows how wide and varied the spectrum is.
As someone who suspects I'm on the mild end of the spectrum (no diagnosis), I find it difficult to relate to some of the children with their lack of empathy. It was quite hard to watch at times. It's good they are getting more help than we had. My anxieties and issues were put down to shyness.
Comments
So good to hear this instead of all the negative stuff that tends to attract more media attention - cheers KJ
I wondered about people's opinions on something someone just said to me today - would someone with Aspergers say they are "autistic" or not? While Aspergers is a form of autism, autism itself is a spectrum, and even if it turned out I do have Aspergers, I'm not happy at all saying I'm an autistic person
I would also submit that, contrary to what was said, that Aspergers is a learning disability.
I'm sorry I just felt a bit upset by what I heard
It sounds as though your diagnosis wasn't properly explained to you when it was given, although it's a very confusing area.
The original criteria for diagnosis of Asperger Syndrome states very clearly that it is NOT a learning disability. It's all semantics really but basically if you have an IQ of 70 or more you are deemed NOT to have a learning difficulty/disability.
If your IQ is less than 70 and you have autism, it's classic, or Kanner's, autism. If higher than 70 then you may be diagnosed high functioning autism or Asperger's. The latter two terms are usually used to describe the same thing (by confused clinicians, there may be some variance as to what they consider each to be). I have met people who have being diagnosed as having autism who clearly have Asperger's and vice versa. A lot depends on the diagnostic criteria used - DSM IV, ICD 10, or DSM 5.
There's a move in the medical profession towards everyone being diagnosed 'ASD' (autistic spectrum disorder). However, the recently revised diagnostic criteria (DSM 5) didn't 'remove' Asperger's as a diagnosis as such, they just brought it under the autism spectrum where it has always belonged. It is and always has been a form of autism. That should have been explained to you when you were given your diagnosis.
Unfortunately the DSM5 intention to simplify the 'label' to 'autism spectrum disorder' and give it levels (according to how severely you are impacted by autism) doesn't really help those people who identify strongly with 'Asperger's' or 'being an Aspie'. There's also been a lot of controversy about the DSM5 for a variety of reasons I won't bore you with - plenty of stuff you can google.
So the short answer is that if you have Asperger's, yes, you're autistic, or a person with autism, or whatever term you prefer. Autism itself is a recognised disability but ill-informed services will vary as to whether they call it a learning disability. As I said above, strictly speaking someone with Asperger's doesn't meet learning disability criteria... it's why some find it so hard to access services. Any autism spectrum diagnosis should give access to support and the ability to challenge services under the terms of the Equality Act and now the Care Act if they say you don't meet their criteria.
Told you it was confusing
Lovely.
I've got 2 questions.
I'm absolutely to dreading it because I'm scared he'll be bullied. What is the transition from primary to secondary like for those of you with autistic children in mainstream education?
Secondly, I want him to go to a Catholic school outside of our catchment area. The main reason is the school is very good and has been recommended to us as a good choice by SEN people at the primary he is in now. We're not Catholic but the SEN people say he won't have any problems getting in. How would his application be treated? What should I be doing now?
Firstly check what the admission criteria is for the school you want. You can argue a good case for SEN but it's worth checking their rules out. They will be on the school's website or if not they should be freely available from the school.
Visit the school yourself and see what vibe you get from it. That's actually the single most important thing you can do. Don't take your child - school visits tend to upset and unsettle kids with autism and really this is your decision as you know what's best for him.
If he has a statement/EHCP you have far more chance of getting him into the school you want, but the local authority may not cover transport if it's not the nearest suitable provision. That's something to think about but can be challenged. IPSEA will help you if your LA is not co-operative.
I would avoid mentioning transition to him until he mentions it. Year 6 is tough enough with SATS etc - try not to let him pick up on your anxiety as that will just heighten his own.
Once you've made a decision, arrange lots of visits to the school he's allocated, get him there taking pictures of the place and some of the staff he will encounter (if they will let you - some schools can be very precious about this sort of thing) and make him a transition story. If you have a local autism outreach service they might be able to help you do that if it's something you haven't done before.
Finally - get the SEN team on your side at the new place, make sure communication is as two-way as possible - email often works better than a home-school book system. The sole aim for the first year should be for him to settle in and don't expect everything to go smoothly - it doesn't do that even for loads of neurotypical kids - it's a big change. Decide in advance where you can what you'll challenge and what you'll let go. None of us wants to be the parent the staff dread talking to - but equally with hindsight I wish I had challenged a lot more when mine went through this stage.
Thank you
Basically, as far as I can see I dont think aspergers/autism has that big an impact on me, though I do find some social situations difficult, amongst other things
Its just what this person said annoyed me and they werent health professionals/doctors etc
Thanks
From what I've read the school has a separate admissions criteria for those going the SEN route.
How in your experiance do the child's peers react to the child wit Autism?
Can react very differently depending on the child, and the child's behaviour towards them, and the level of empathy and understanding of the peers. The school play a far more important role than some of them acknowledge in terms of facilitating development of friendships and fostering good social skills etc.
My eldest experienced some bullying which with hindsight I wish I had done more about. My youngest likewise. Both felt they had to just deal with it as the school didn't take anything seriously. There's often way too much acceptance of behaviour with the excuse 'they are just being kids' when in fact, you wouldn't accept that behaviour as an adult from another adult, so why should you take it from a peer just because you're younger?
However, some children with autism have huge difficulty in knowing when it's bullying and when kids are just teasing each other in a non-malicious way, and some equally can be vulnerable because they want to have friends so will pretty much do whatever other kids ask them to. So it's really important for them to have a good understanding of what a friend is. It sometimes helps to have a mentor - either a savvy peer or someone in the year above - to look out for them as well.
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-autistic-gardener
Thanks for that
I have just came across this forum and thought I would bring the fact that I was diagnosed with high-functioning Asperger's Syndrome when I was 16. I understand totally how difficult it is for people on the autism spectrum and the problems it can bring. Although I luckily never had any behavioural problems at school, I did have a speech and language difficulty when I was younger and I did not overcome this fully until I was 7.
He is using the example of someone with Asperger's syndrome who was at Cambridge Uni.
The couple who owned the garden seemed nice, the hippy type.
Can't wait to see what they all do with that small garden next time.
Shocking rise of 'mate crime': How children with autism or Asperger's are being bullied, abused and robbed by so-called friends
Nearly 90% of teens with autism subjected to 'mate crime' says new study
Abuse sees victims manipulated by someone believed to be their friend
Experience has left many too scared to go out for fear of further bullying
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3158777/Shocking-rise-mate-crime-children-autism-Asperger-s-bullied-abused-robbed-called-friends.html
And yes, she has been a victim in the past. I can protect her now but what happens when I'm gone?
With two children with Autism I can see a mild version of this with my eldest, aged 11, who is desperate for a friend. (The younger can take or leave people dependent upon his mood).
A 'mate' calls for him sometimes when it's raining or when the mate wants money. Then my son takes money from his money box and they go to the shop and spend all he brings. We are working to explain the difference between a friend and someone who uses him but it's difficult because it is still some sort of social interaction which he craves. The concern is that as he gets older he will become vulnerable to more serious manipulation.
Not all autistic people appear to have any issues outwardly. I know that all people see in me is that something is a little different. I run a childcare center, I have an extensive reputation for being gifted with babies and toddlers, and promoting a stress free environment by just being myself. I could easily present a TV show in my field of work, without having to think too much it would come naturally. My neighbors would however say that I am stand offish, arrogant, and never say hi or good morning.
Maybe if you lived next to Alan Gardiner your perception may change.
We had this with my (now ex) partners daughter when she first went to secondary school. They had a card system for lunch, where we put money in the card so she could buy her lunch.
A few weeks in we found that £10 was only lasting a couple of days, where it should have lasted all week. We eventually discovered that she was buying lunch for half her class in an attempt to make friends.
She only lasted 3 months in a mainstream secondary school, she was bullied terribly and eventually tried to jump out of a first floor window. The head's response was to ask us to remove her from the school or she would be expelled anyway.
She then got a place at a local special school where she flourished and did very well.
She is now 20 and has recently got a small flat of her own and is living independently.
Not sure about the Girls with Autism show....
Part of me wants to be surprised at how good they are but then I feel that would be patronising as I know people with Autism can do great things if they get the help and support they need.
I think the good thing about this programme is that it shows how people with autism interact with each other and people in general. I'm probably more like Charlie than the others.
IMO People with autism just want to do the thing they are doing and don't really use these situations to socialise in the same way NTs would do.
Look forward to seeing the next garden they do. They certainly made good use of that small space.
I had a group of people with mental health problems work on my garden. They created a small pond, which unfortunately dried up, but has become over grown with ivy so makes a nice nature reserve for insects.
This was the pond when it was first created.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCdtzBQoSXw
I think this post epitomises the kind of ignorance there is around autism. As a later poster already said, autism presents in many different ways, and many people create masks that they hide behind as a way to survive in an NT world.
I don't much like the implication that being autistic would mean that Alan couldn't be an excellent presenter, or have I read that wrong?
I was. Thought it was really powerful, showing how different girls with autism are... and the final quote from one of them said it all really.
I saw they interviewed Katie on This Morning too. http://www.itv.com/thismorning/hot-topics/girls-with-autism-limpsfield-grange-school
It just shows how wide and varied the spectrum is.
As someone who suspects I'm on the mild end of the spectrum (no diagnosis), I find it difficult to relate to some of the children with their lack of empathy. It was quite hard to watch at times. It's good they are getting more help than we had. My anxieties and issues were put down to shyness.