Belfast bakery refuses to bake cake with message supporting gay marriage on it

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  • anne_666anne_666 Posts: 72,891
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    Exactly. We end up with a list of state approved political opinions. Anyone who offers a printing service could be forced to produce literature, leaflets, posters etc for those opinions, whilst literature supporting opposing opinions can be refused. That's actually very undemocratic.

    Rather than predicted scenarios, as this isn't something new, 1998, what have the effects been?
    The law
    The Fair Employment and Treatment (Northern Ireland) Order 1998
    (FETO), as amended, makes discrimination on grounds of religious belief
    and/or political opinion unlawful in the following areas:
    • employment;
    • provision of goods, facilities or services;
    • disposal or management of premises;
    • further and higher education.
    The 1998 Order was amended by the Fair Employment and Treatment
    Order (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2003 in
    December 2003 to meet the requirements of the EU Framework
    Directive for Equal Treatment in Employment and Occupation.
  • Slarti BartfastSlarti Bartfast Posts: 6,607
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    anne_666 wrote: »
    Rather than predicted scenarios, as this isn't something new, 1998, what have the effects been?

    The context of the post you quoted is in response to someone who suggests that messages opposing gay marriage should be outlawed while those which support it aren't.
  • anne_666anne_666 Posts: 72,891
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    The context of the post you quoted is in response to someone who suggests that messages opposing gay marriage should be outlawed while those which support it aren't.

    Yes I understand that and I disagree with the poster. The law also protects against such a situation. I asked what has the effect been so far, of this 16 year old law, in NI?
  • Slarti BartfastSlarti Bartfast Posts: 6,607
    Forum Member
    anne_666 wrote: »
    Yes I understand that and I disagree with the poster. The law also protects against such a situation. I asked what has the effect been so far, of this 16 year old law, in NI?

    My concern is about what future ramifications this present ruling may have if it establishes that a service is implicitly inclusive of all possible requests and cannot contain exclusions on religious grounds.
  • Sun Tzu.Sun Tzu. Posts: 19,064
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    anne_666 wrote: »
    That's not the point?
    It is the point. Should the baker have to allow a cake which says up the IRA on it?
  • Artemis1Artemis1 Posts: 1,310
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    I think the law must be changed to protect every shop keeper in northern Ireland.

    If its a service ie baking a cake the bakery should have the right to say No we don't want to do this inscription.

    It is not right that someone can threaten a bakery and demand financial compensation for hurt feelings and threaten with a court case .

    In the spirit of equality who decided that the activists rights were MORE important than the bakery's rights.

    Of course the law in northern Ireland must be changed similar to here in England but that's for politicians to sort out.
  • anne_666anne_666 Posts: 72,891
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    My concern is about what future ramifications this present ruling may have if it establishes that a service is implicitly inclusive of all possible requests and cannot contain exclusions on religious grounds.

    Political or religious discrimination has never been challenged in 16 years?
  • Slarti BartfastSlarti Bartfast Posts: 6,607
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    anne_666 wrote: »
    Political or religious discrimination has never been challenged in 16 years?

    I think I've made my position clear Anne. Putting words in my mouth or trying to create silly strawmen isn't going to further the debate.
  • DinkyDoobieDinkyDoobie Posts: 17,786
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    anne_666 wrote: »
    Political or religious discrimination has never been challenged in 16 years?

    Clearly it hasn't in this context otherwise the equalities commission wouldn't be taking the bakery to court to test where the law lies.
  • anne_666anne_666 Posts: 72,891
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    I think I've made my position clear Anne. Putting words in my mouth or trying to create silly strawmen isn't going to further the debate.

    I do apologise if it seemed like that, but I wasn't being challenging at all. I was curious that's all, as this particular law doesn't exist in the rest of Britain. All I do know is it's the first time it's been challenged in this type of situation.
  • d'@ved'@ve Posts: 45,515
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    On 8th. July 2014... jesaya said:
    jesaya wrote: »
    I understand that - but as the message was a call for equality for gay people, from an LGBT organisation, it might be construed as indirect discrimination. That's why it needs testing by a court.

    You were right, this was needed and has happened. Many people will remain uncomfortable with today's verdict, though. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32791239

    There may be an Appeal so it could change, but I think the law needs review for further clarification of whose rights are top trumps, and in what circumstances.
  • TagletTaglet Posts: 20,286
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    "Direct discrimination" ......... its certainly a step forward in the fight against discrimination.
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