Tiki-taka or Parking the Bus
henrywilliams58
Posts: 4,963 Forum Member
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Quite often such comments will crop up in this forum to the umbrage of supporters of a certain manager and team.
So perhaps this discussion can take place here than repeated in every other thread.
So is there an "anti-football" or "results are everything".
Do teams have to please the TV viewing neutrals?
Personally the important thing is winning - however they do it. Possession is only useful if something is made of it. If you have the ball the opposition cannot score. But you still need to find a gap in the opposition to score.
Expecting this to be a more entertaining game than the snooze fest last night in the other semi.
So perhaps this discussion can take place here than repeated in every other thread.
So is there an "anti-football" or "results are everything".
Do teams have to please the TV viewing neutrals?
Personally the important thing is winning - however they do it. Possession is only useful if something is made of it. If you have the ball the opposition cannot score. But you still need to find a gap in the opposition to score.
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The rest is just tactics and strategy.
Parking the bus is stopping the opposition from scoring while barely ever going out of your own half to achieve a draw, yawn.
But look at the team that Arsenal had - that midfield.
Mourinho buys all this creative talent and then he puts on that craven display. Just remember, for all his supposedly masterful defensive strategy, it has cost him more European Cups than it has earned him. His negative tactics usually betray him in the semi-finals - three times at Madrid and twice at Chelsea. He won't look like much of a tactical genius if Atletico Madrid pop in the first goal at the Bridge next week.
i kind of disagree, for example the tony pulis/sam alardyce long ball football can only get you so far, it doesn't win leagues or european cups, so at the highest level there is a right and wrong way to play if you want to win the big trophies. also, i do think the biggest and wealthiest clubs should focus on an entertaining style of football, if your going to spend tens of millions on the best attacking players in the world then you should be able to play an entertaining attacking style. i wouldn't call what madrid did tonight parking the bus at all tho, it is bayern who played the boring and cautious style of football tonight in my opinion, i love watching madrid's fast counter attacking...
Not many fans would say different. But IMO every single person or organisation in showbusiness (which is what the biggest professional sports are, like or not) has a tacit obligation to entertain. Football only gets away with it because of the huge fan base, exceptional brand loyalty of club supporters and the statistical tension generated which can mean even a boring nil-nil draw can be worth a watch if it's the result one team needs to avoid relagation/win promotion. But those teams that both win and win well will always be more popular than those who win at all costs.
I know it's a bit of an obvious thing to say, but there is a wrong way to play, and that's going out with the intention of trying to kick people and commit fouls as part of the gameplan to try and get a result. Apart from that, any tactics are fine, if teams think playing defensively gives them more chance of getting a result, then so be it.
Yes we had Jensen, Hillier, Morrow, Selley and Mcgoldrick in midfield which was pretty awful but we were skint back then. Chelsea have an oligarch buying whoever he wants yet they played no different to the players we had.
In any sport winning is far more important than being "entertaining". It's a bonus if you can do both but winning surely has to be no.1 priority or what's the point of having any competition?
It's nice to be entertaining, but not at the expense of winning.
Where did I say winning wasn't the No 1 priority? I just said that entertainment, IMO, is a priority as well.
The football league introduced three points for a win and FIFA outlawed the back pass
with a view to making football more entertaining - or at least (then) less boring.
Too many people have their head up their arses about football these days.
It's about winning and the day that doesn't matter is when I give up watching.
Isn't that a bit of a sweeping statement ;-)
BTW It doesn't have to be tiki-taka or bus parka - lots of styles in between and Cantona07 is right that contrast in itself can be exciting. But the Chelsea didn't park the bus last night. They drove it on the pitch and took the wheels off. I'm a bit of a Jose fanboy, and normally appreciate the tactical football his teams play in the same way I don't find Floyd Mayweather's genius as boring as others seem to, but that football yesterday would put "a glass eye to sleep".
In general terms you are probably correct about Mourinho. However he has no obligation to anyone other than those at Chelsea, its not his job to entertain fans of Napoli (random team) who tuned in last night just to watch a game of football they had no vested interest in. Had they gone out and been even a bit more forward thinking and lost they would have got no credit for it. Whereas if Chelsea win the 2nd leg and get to the final it will look like spot on tactics. If they fail then Jose has to come out and justify his tactics to the fans and more worryingly the owner.
Personally i think if a team comes with the intention of defending for 90 mins that means the opposition are getting 90 mins to attack. If they can't score in 90 mins then you have to give credit to the organisation of the defending side.
Very much this ^.
Who's 'Benie'?
Bayern funnily enough, although it wouldn't know by many comments on football forums were a possession based side under Heynckes. They were also that under Van Gaal as well. It's not a new thing Guardiola has brought to Bayern; it's been apart of Bayern's blue-print since 2009. The difference between last season, and this season is that Bayern got the balance right between possession and attack. Bayern were defensively solid with Lahm at RB, with Robben and Ribery tracking back and with the wonderful Schweinsteiger/Martinez partnership, and of course Thomas Muller running through defences.
Now, the balance between possession and attack has gone too much towards possession; with the balance being tipped by Lahm's presence in midfield and breaking up of the Martinez/Schweinsteiger axis which has left Martinez a little lost this season. He's a great DM, but he's a terrible CB. Schweinsteiger has really struggled in Guardiola's system IMO; prior to his return from injury Bayern played better without him. Gotze is not the amazing false 9 Bayern execs probably thought he would be.
For Chelsea, while their defensive set-up can work against possession based sides, counter-attacking sides such as RM, and Atletico in the Super Cup are a completely different story. And the one thing Chelsea and Bayern both did in their away games, which they may regret is not scoring an away goal - which I'd say is absolutely vital in the CL. Chelsea will actually have to attack at Stamford Bridge and so will be much more open than they were in Madrid - and that will give Atletico the break they need to counter attack. For Bayern, it's about rectifying tactics - even that may not be enough with the power and pace of RM, but RM don't have a great record in Germany and you'd think by adjusting their formation they'd at least play better than they did today.
One last thing of tika-taka - it works when possession isn't an end in itself, and there's pace in the ball movement. When possession is too slow and lethargic - alike Barca this year, United this year, and perhaps even Bayern at times - it's ineffective because it allows the opposition to regroup in their positions very quickly and anticipate ball movement. The high pressing of tika-taka has also influenced many sides - Bayern today, Dortmund definitely, Man City when their act their best, Spain NT, and even Germany NT for example.
Exactly, that's why I was not surprised at Mourinho's tactics last night.
Chelsea don't possess a prolific striker, you can blame Jose for not doing something about that in the summer, but that's the position we are in. Hazard is still injured, and he is the most likely of our attacking midfield players to chip in with a goal. Matic is not available for CL games, leaving us weak in central midfield. Playing Ashley Cole was a bit of a gamble, he was short of actual match practice. We were playing away to the top team in La Liga who are unbeaten at home.
All that combined means it made perfect sense to play a defensive game. Basically a 4-5-1 crowding them out in midfield and using Willian and Ramires on the break. Actually it nearly paid off a couple of times, Torres should have latched on to a lovely ball from Luiz, and Ramires found himself clear but wasted the ball. Atletico barely threatened, which was the purpose of the exercise. Yes, an away goal would have been perfect, but I'd have happily settled for 0-0 at the start.
Home leg to come. I'm guessing that Atletico away will only be 70/80% of the team they are at home in front of their own crowd. We could possibly have Hazard and Eto'o back, along with Ivanovich who was suspended. Mourinho's tactics may prove spot-on.
No. See Formula One should be all about the noise and the smell of oil
Maybe the bus' back 10 could f@rt in unison - that'll be noise and smell.
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