OH is South African and describes HIMSELF as coloured. He defiantly isn't black, more like a very attractive mid brown. So now we're supposed to say people of colour or people not of colour. How ridiculous and probably in few years that'll be wrong too. Loads of people I know say coloured. If it doesn't bother me or OH I can't see it's a big problem. I was under the impression that we were supposed to say black or white. I can't keep up with these changes and I suspect a lot of other people can't either.
I was more shocked that his PR people made him grovel over this and even more shocked of the reaction of some of his so called fans, told to me by a friend. One of them evidently said the remark was unforgivable and she does not know wether to like him any more but she'll be watching him very carefully from now on. These people are not sane.
Regarding the post above the bit that goes
For what its worth the term coloured is generally accepted as being --- seems to have a word or two missing.
^^^^ In South Africa and Zimbabwe (maybe other African countries as well) "coloured" is an acceptable and indeed official classification for people who derived from mixed race relationships in the past.
In both countries, the determination of rights/places to live/schools depended upon whether you were "white"; "coloured" or "african/black". Someone who grew up in those countries would not see "coloured" as an insult but more as a statement of fact.
However in the UK, the term "coloured" now has negative connotations and is now generally frowned upon.
Personally I believe that labels, names etc are for the most part irrelevant. Benedict was making a valid point in favour of "black" actors and yet is now being villified.
I've had racist behaviour from people who would use PC terminology and been welcomed by some who might not.
^^^^ In South Africa and Zimbabwe (maybe other African countries as well) "coloured" is an acceptable and indeed official classification for people who derived from mixed race relationships in the past.
In both countries, the determination of rights/places to live/schools depended upon whether you were "white"; "coloured" or "african/black". Someone who grew up in those countries would not see "coloured" as an insult but more as a statement of fact.
However in the UK, the term "coloured" now has negative connotations and is now generally frowned upon.
Personally I believe that labels, names etc are for the most part irrelevant. Benedict was making a valid point in favour of "black" actors and yet is now being villified.
I've had racist behaviour from people who would use PC terminology and been welcomed by some who might not.
Yes. OH and I have both had racist comments and my German Grandparents evidently had racist comments as well. OH had an immediate problem when he was born because he was lighter than both his parents. That's one of the reasons they came here. I just feel terribly sorry for Benedict and even his so called fans are evidently turning on him now. Unfortunately no-one is perfect but evidently Ben's fans are. Hmm.
OH is South African and describes HIMSELF as coloured. He defiantly isn't black, more like a very attractive mid brown. So now we're supposed to say people of colour or people not of colour. How ridiculous and probably in few years that'll be wrong too. Loads of people I know say coloured. If it doesn't bother me or OH I can't see it's a big problem. I was under the impression that we were supposed to say black or white. I can't keep up with these changes and I suspect a lot of other people can't either.
I was more shocked that his PR people made him grovel over this and even more shocked of the reaction of some of his so called fans, told to me by a friend. One of them evidently said the remark was unforgivable and she does not know wether to like him any more but she'll be watching him very carefully from now on. These people are not sane.
Regarding the post above the bit that goes
For what its worth the term coloured is generally accepted as being --- seems to have a word or two missing.
As regards his fans - I've said before that some of him do him no favours, and since his engagement some of them have displayed alarming behaviour that's put me in mind of Stephen King's book, Misery!
Personally, I think he's been brought up in a bit of a bubble by slightly older than average parents, and as a result can be really "old" in his language and manner. While some people are ok with the term, over whelmingly it's now been deemed offensive, and, whilst a lot of older people may not know that a term they once thought of as polite is no longer seen that way, I'm amazed that someone of Benedict's age and intelligence didn't know.
I'm older than him, but as soon as I read his comments, I knew he was in trouble and would have to apologise ( I can remember the same happening a few years back with another public figure but can't remember who it was.)
At yet end of the day, he's made a mistake and apologised for it.
As I said earlier though, it really wouldn't do him any harm to stop the publicity trial for a while.
Just as an aside - wouldn't you think PR companies would make sure their clients were aware if what is or isn't acceptable? Might save them a lot of work in the long run!
OK, to finish this, at least for me, if he'd said persons of colour that would have been fine. As that's what Tavis Smiley himself said. Sometimes I feel as if I'm from Mars and everyone seek is from Pluto. Anyhow, he's appologised and as no-one can yet turn back time the event is over with.
Everyone else can get on with analyzing it to death but I have to deal with reality. Getting kids off to School and Nursery. Bye.
Kampffenhoff - I certainly wasn't "analysing to death" - I was replying to your post. And agreeing with you that his fans behave strangely.
And yes, as I said, he's apologised. The end.
Apologies if I've annoyed you in some way.
It's bizarre to say that "coloured people " is offensive but "people of colour" is not. I've always found the latter phrase rather pretentious.
I suppose "coloured people" could be seen as defining people by the colour of their skin whereas "people of colour" would be talking of people who simply happen to have coloured skin.
I really don't see why there has been so much fuss over this, he was probably being careful to use the right terminology and made a mistake, lets be honest there are a few people out there who would have been offended whatever he said.
I suppose "coloured people" could be seen as defining people by the colour of their skin whereas "people of colour" would be talking of people who simply happen to have coloured skin.
We are all people of colour. Calling people either black or white seems odd some how.
I remember that calling a someone black was really offensive, but now it is not.
This thread just plays to certain types who at best 'can't be bothered' with cultural sensitivities....they bluster on about 'confusion' and 'not being able to keep up' with 'what they are allowed to say' but at worst I'm afraid they are smug and bigoted and only too happy to jump on top of a non story like this whipped up Daily Fail story as an opportunity to air their ignorance.
For what its worth the term coloured is generally accepted as being as the actor concerned said an outmoded term that is demeaning to the people it appears to describe ....white people are white and everyone else is coloured has patronising echoes and even hints at implied inferiority and belongs to a bygone age of not quite knowing what to say and general unawareness..........like it or not times change.
And yet it isn't that long ago that councils were telling schools not to sing Baa Baa black Sheep as it could be construed as racially "offensive".
The problem is what is, or isn't considered "acceptable" often changes like the weather and, to be honest, I find it staggering how hyper-sensitive people are these days over what was simply a slip of the tongue. Some people have very fortunate lives if that is all they have to worry about.
And yet it isn't that long ago that councils were telling schools not to sing Baa Baa black Sheep as it could be construed as racially "offensive".
The origins of Baa Baa Black Sheep go back to the days of black American slave trade where many of them were made to pick cotton in the fields, that is why it is discouraged to sing it to kids
though we had no idea of this when singing it in nursery back in the late 70s and I am pretty sure the teachers didn't either
Should we just refer to race as white and non white? When I was growing up 'coloured' was the polite term, 'black' sounded harsh and rude, like something a not very nice character from the tv show 'Roots" would use.
I still remember in the 70s being on a train with my mum, my nan and my siblings, my nan said there were "coloured people" on the platform and we looked out of the window expecting to see kids looking like a stick of rock or a deckchair, all stripey and different colours. I still can't get that image out of my head 30-odd years later.
This thread just plays to certain types who at best 'can't be bothered' with cultural sensitivities....they bluster on about 'confusion' and 'not being able to keep up' with 'what they are allowed to say' but at worst I'm afraid they are smug and bigoted and only too happy to jump on top of a non story like this whipped up Daily Fail story as an opportunity to air their ignorance.
For what its worth the term coloured is generally accepted as being as the actor concerned said an outmoded term that is demeaning to the people it appears to describe ....white people are white and everyone else is coloured has patronising echoes and even hints at implied inferiority and belongs to a bygone age of not quite knowing what to say and general unawareness..........like it or not times change.
If anything, this whole episode has demonstrated how ridiculous any of these terms are. No so-called "black" people are actually black, any more than any "white" people are actually white. To use either of these terms to describe somebody is therefore plain wrong. The only time this should actually matter is if there is a need to provide an accurate description of someone, either in a lost person case or for a crime.
The word black is often used to describe people who are of a lighter shade than some of these people who feel the need to make themselves look ridiculous with fake tan, so is obviously inadequate. Perhaps it's time to issue a colour chart with about twenty different shades, with numbers to describe them all. Perhaps then, certain groups of people could be referred to as something like "categories 14 to 20". This merely shows up the sheer madness of current sensitivities. The rules could be different next week and would probably be different in America to the UK.
What we need is a great big melting pot
Big enough, big enough, big enough
To take the world and all it's got
And keep it stirring for a hundred years or more
And turn out coffee colored people by the score
Oh for God's sake! Not long ago we were told that 'coloured' was the polite thing to say - now it's frowned upon, but it IS OK to say 'a person of colour'??? It's very difficult trying to keep up with the latest protestations of the perpetually-offended brigade, and we are constantly treading on eggshells just in case.
The UK standards are hypocritical too. Bad to call a Black person coloured yet the term Oriental is accepted. If you use the term Oriental in the USA or Australia you will be attacked for racism.
Australia!!!!!
ROFLMAO
Aussies still happy use the rather derogatary term P*** to refer to any Pakistani cricketers.
Aussies still happy use the rather derogatary term P*** to refer to any Pakistani cricketers.
I never use this word, however in India they refer to someone from Pakistan as a 'Pak' they even use it in the Times of India newspaper. I don't think it is meant as offensive and I don't know if anyone takes umbrage to it
The origins of Baa Baa Black Sheep go back to the days of black American slave trade where many of them were made to pick cotton in the fields, that is why it is discouraged to sing it to kids
though we had no idea of this when singing it in nursery back in the late 70s and I am pretty sure the teachers didn't either
It may well have been sung by slaves in the cotton plantations in America but its origins go back much further and are nothing to do with "racism", either perceived or implied..
Comments
I was more shocked that his PR people made him grovel over this and even more shocked of the reaction of some of his so called fans, told to me by a friend. One of them evidently said the remark was unforgivable and she does not know wether to like him any more but she'll be watching him very carefully from now on. These people are not sane.
Regarding the post above the bit that goes
For what its worth the term coloured is generally accepted as being --- seems to have a word or two missing.
In both countries, the determination of rights/places to live/schools depended upon whether you were "white"; "coloured" or "african/black". Someone who grew up in those countries would not see "coloured" as an insult but more as a statement of fact.
However in the UK, the term "coloured" now has negative connotations and is now generally frowned upon.
Personally I believe that labels, names etc are for the most part irrelevant. Benedict was making a valid point in favour of "black" actors and yet is now being villified.
I've had racist behaviour from people who would use PC terminology and been welcomed by some who might not.
Yes. OH and I have both had racist comments and my German Grandparents evidently had racist comments as well. OH had an immediate problem when he was born because he was lighter than both his parents. That's one of the reasons they came here. I just feel terribly sorry for Benedict and even his so called fans are evidently turning on him now. Unfortunately no-one is perfect but evidently Ben's fans are. Hmm.
As regards his fans - I've said before that some of him do him no favours, and since his engagement some of them have displayed alarming behaviour that's put me in mind of Stephen King's book, Misery!
Personally, I think he's been brought up in a bit of a bubble by slightly older than average parents, and as a result can be really "old" in his language and manner. While some people are ok with the term, over whelmingly it's now been deemed offensive, and, whilst a lot of older people may not know that a term they once thought of as polite is no longer seen that way, I'm amazed that someone of Benedict's age and intelligence didn't know.
I'm older than him, but as soon as I read his comments, I knew he was in trouble and would have to apologise ( I can remember the same happening a few years back with another public figure but can't remember who it was.)
At yet end of the day, he's made a mistake and apologised for it.
As I said earlier though, it really wouldn't do him any harm to stop the publicity trial for a while.
Just as an aside - wouldn't you think PR companies would make sure their clients were aware if what is or isn't acceptable? Might save them a lot of work in the long run!
Everyone else can get on with analyzing it to death but I have to deal with reality. Getting kids off to School and Nursery. Bye.
Bit silly of him but a case of move along now nothing to see here
no-one seemed to complain when Lou Reed sang it on the song Walk on the Wild Side, and that song still gets plenty of airplay
And yes, as I said, he's apologised. The end.
Apologies if I've annoyed you in some way.
I suppose "coloured people" could be seen as defining people by the colour of their skin whereas "people of colour" would be talking of people who simply happen to have coloured skin.
We are all people of colour. Calling people either black or white seems odd some how.
I remember that calling a someone black was really offensive, but now it is not.
And yet it isn't that long ago that councils were telling schools not to sing Baa Baa black Sheep as it could be construed as racially "offensive".
The problem is what is, or isn't considered "acceptable" often changes like the weather and, to be honest, I find it staggering how hyper-sensitive people are these days over what was simply a slip of the tongue. Some people have very fortunate lives if that is all they have to worry about.
The origins of Baa Baa Black Sheep go back to the days of black American slave trade where many of them were made to pick cotton in the fields, that is why it is discouraged to sing it to kids
though we had no idea of this when singing it in nursery back in the late 70s and I am pretty sure the teachers didn't either
times have simply changed an awful lot
I still remember in the 70s being on a train with my mum, my nan and my siblings, my nan said there were "coloured people" on the platform and we looked out of the window expecting to see kids looking like a stick of rock or a deckchair, all stripey and different colours. I still can't get that image out of my head 30-odd years later.
The word black is often used to describe people who are of a lighter shade than some of these people who feel the need to make themselves look ridiculous with fake tan, so is obviously inadequate. Perhaps it's time to issue a colour chart with about twenty different shades, with numbers to describe them all. Perhaps then, certain groups of people could be referred to as something like "categories 14 to 20". This merely shows up the sheer madness of current sensitivities. The rules could be different next week and would probably be different in America to the UK.
Here are a few more possibilities for you to chew over:
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRM-Bj8BxlSfgVa7yOzCWFfwVB2ucqXKZmIlNhqDGbDJpaDit0z
http://auslandish.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/The-Significance-of-Hair-Weave-Color-Chart.jpg
https://oilpainterstudio.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/skin-tone-colour-chart.jpg
http://www.smartseal.co.uk/images/colour_chart.jpg
http://paintpotcrafts.co.za/colour_charts/dala_craft_paint_basic.jpg
I've certainly seen a few Umber and Red Oxide girls in the streets round my way.
Big enough, big enough, big enough
To take the world and all it's got
And keep it stirring for a hundred years or more
And turn out coffee colored people by the score
Australia!!!!!
ROFLMAO
Aussies still happy use the rather derogatary term P*** to refer to any Pakistani cricketers.
Part-European in day to day Govt activity.
I never use this word, however in India they refer to someone from Pakistan as a 'Pak' they even use it in the Times of India newspaper. I don't think it is meant as offensive and I don't know if anyone takes umbrage to it
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/6/13/1339593526634/Jodie-Marsh-008.jpg
http://www.xtras.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/DavidDickinson1-1001x1024.jpg
http://media.salon.com/2012/10/Colin_Powell-440x412.jpg
http://www.crushable.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/SimonCowell2.jpg
http://ak-cache.legacy.net/globalcontent/contenthub/contentitems/e28c4413-75dd-47c3-b370-531e743501f2.jpg
http://i.guim.co.uk/static/w-620/h--/q-95/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/2/19/1392832478935/Robert-Mugabe-011.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/10/21/article-2052035-0E79F19F00000578-85_233x423.jpg
https://thegrio.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/marlon-brown.jpg
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/About/General/2011/9/20/1316521309415/James-and-Daniel-Kelly-007.jpg
http://img.xcitefun.net/users/2011/04/243876,xcitefun-twins-once-in-million-funzug-org-01.jpg
http://i3.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article2131865.ece/alternates/s615/Michael-Jackson.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/President_Barack_Obama,_2012_portrait_crop.jpg
http://www.nma.gov.au/shared/libraries/images/temporary_exhibitions/extremes/extremes_large/africa/a_khoisan_man_northern_cape_south_africa/files/6398/nma.img-ex20042116-262-vi-vs1.jpg
http://www.africanholocaust.net/images/south-african-and-chinese-compare-features.jpg
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140209162228/starwars/images/5/50/Darth_Maul_profile.png
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CANlZ8YW_Cs/T-Rn8FQdRQI/AAAAAAAABAI/gSaXB4zxlgA/s1600/Old+Guy+Face+Tattoo.jpg
It is an English nursery rhyme first published in Tommy Thumb's Pretty Song Book in 1744.
It may well have been sung by slaves in the cotton plantations in America but its origins go back much further and are nothing to do with "racism", either perceived or implied..