Doc Martin (Part 16 — Spoilers)

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  • dcdmfandcdmfan Posts: 1,540
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    Why do some people in this thread watch the show if they hate the character of LG so much? It confuses me. Or is your love for the Doc blinding your opinion? As he can do no wrong it seems. (I've been lurking a long time and everything the Doc does has a reason but everything LG does doesn't have a reason so it seems, in your minds).

    I personally watch the show to (try) to enjoy it. I don't analyse it as it takes any enjoyment out of it.
    This season and last are weak. They seem to be turning LG into something horrible just to make the Doc look good. That isn't the kind of show I like and if they don't change it I know I won't be watching the next series. Why bother if they keep rehashing things?
    I know you all won't agree and that's fine. Just needed to vent.

    Here, here. I agree with you on this. I can't imagine why they would like a show where they dislike one of the main characters so much. It is the writing and the directing. Some of the folks on here seem to get mad at the character as though she is a real person who is making her own decisions. Sometimes I get frustrated with the way the character is written and directed. And I agree, I don't understand why the writers and directors have changed the character into an incompetent shrew. I try to come up with the reasons they are doing this, but as hard as I try, I don't understand where they are coming from.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2
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    NewPark wrote: »
    Does anyone think that one reason they are portraying Louisa in these last couple of episodes as so "tense" and preoccupied with trying to adjust to the demands of a full-time job + baby+ new marriage, is that it makes her less attuned to what is going on with Martin, and him more reluctant to add one more (big) thing to the mix, i.e., his blood phobia returning? In other words, perhaps he is trying to protect her (in addition to other reasons he might have for not confiding in her).

    I thought it was such an odd look he gave her as he was standing at the sink, and she was kissing James good-bye and leaving for school. To me, almost uninterpretable, but perhaps it had some element of not wanting to disturb her cheerfulness at that moment.

    I hope I'm doing this correctly and writing a reply that will be posted. My first time... My opinion is that Louisa is going through exactly the conflict that many new mothers go through when they return to work, especially older mothers who have worked for a long time. They want to do their jobs, but they hate leaving their baby. They are so torn that it makes them on edge. The first time I realized that Martin was no longer phobic about blood was in episode 1 of this season and the older man whose caravan they damaged was bleeding all over but Martin handled it without flinching. Louisa may be assuming that he's over the blood thing and not even thinking about that. She didn't see him with the tube of blood after all. Martin's look for me was more his own inner turmoil and possibly a little jealousy about Louisa's attachment to the baby. Men do sometimes think their wives are more concerned about the children than they are about them.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,290
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    mmDerdekea wrote: »
    Notice LG is always in a rush in this episode. She rushes to get to work, rushes to get home to check on her baby, rushes back to work, rushes away from Bert. She seems still completely disorganized in this episode.

    What a full circle we've come! From DM being the main problem and LG the supposedly normal woman to win, to DM growing and changing and LG being the difficult person who is creating tension.

    Of course Louisa is rushing around, she's a working mother. Enough said.
  • NewParkNewPark Posts: 3,537
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    I hope I'm doing this correctly and writing a reply that will be posted. My first time... My opinion is that Louisa is going through exactly the conflict that many new mothers go through when they return to work, especially older mothers who have worked for a long time. They want to do their jobs, but they hate leaving their baby. They are so torn that it makes them on edge. The first time I realized that Martin was no longer phobic about blood was in episode 1 of this season and the older man whose caravan they damaged was bleeding all over but Martin handled it without flinching. Louisa may be assuming that he's over the blood thing and not even thinking about that. She didn't see him with the tube of blood after all. Martin's look for me was more his own inner turmoil and possibly a little jealousy about Louisa's attachment to the baby. Men do sometimes think their wives are more concerned about the children than they are about them.

    Welcome, Karen.

    Sometimes people enjoy reading the earlier parts -- as you see there are 15 earlier ones! -- but of course, sometimes not, and that's fine too.

    I think that very often what you suggest is in fact the case -- that women are wrapped up in their babies and have little psychic energy to spare. Maybe nature intended it that way. Certainly many a new father has felt more than a little left out, but eventually, and hopefully sooner rather than later, a new balance is reached. Sadly, this couple didn't even have time to reach any balance at all, initially.

    I worked part-time and then full-time when raising my own children, and my strongest feeling about that was that most often I was not doing full justice either to my job or my children (let alone to myself and certainly to my home chores) so while I don't entirely sympathize with Louisa here -- she did make the choice herself -- I do empathize with her.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 33
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    I hope I'm doing this correctly and writing a reply that will be posted. My first time... My opinion is that Louisa is going through exactly the conflict that many new mothers go through when they return to work, especially older mothers who have worked for a long time. They want to do their jobs, but they hate leaving their baby. They are so torn that it makes them on edge. The first time I realized that Martin was no longer phobic about blood was in episode 1 of this season and the older man whose caravan they damaged was bleeding all over but Martin handled it without flinching. Louisa may be assuming that he's over the blood thing and not even thinking about that. She didn't see him with the tube of blood after all. Martin's look for me was more his own inner turmoil and possibly a little jealousy about Louisa's attachment to the baby. Men do sometimes think their wives are more concerned about the children than they are about them.

    Karen, Welcome That rings true for me, too.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 911
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    And this surprises you how, exactly?

    Louisa is selfish and has unrealistic expectations of herself and everyone else. She has always been that way. We've seen that all through the show but especially in series 4 and 5. She had unrealistic expectations from the moment she showed up at the surgery six months pregnant. What did she expect? That the Doc would wear sack cloth and ashes the whole time she was gone? That he would be beating himself up and praying at some "Mrs. T like shrine" to her that she'd come back like some member of a bizarre cargo cult? That showing up unannounced like that and in that condition would not be a tremendous shock and surprise to him? She doesn't know the man she supposedly loves very well if she thought that. Sure he missed her but in his mind it was over-she was the one who had left the village and ran away to London, not him. He was starting to get on with his life and was doing what he should've been doing all along, trying to conquer his hemophobia and going back to what he does best-vascular surgery.

    Once the baby arrived she thought that her childcare issues would be magically solved by the Doc essentially shutting down his practice to be her babysitter-on-demand so she could do what she wanted to do. When he'd point out that was an unrealistic expectation on her part she once again throws a tantrum and eventually stomps out. (Everyone seems to forget that right up until the baby was born she constantly pushed him away and repeatedly told him that she didn't need his help and he was to have nothing to do with raising the child, too.) One would think that someone who is supposedly intelligent enough to be a headmistress of a school would understand that the village GP has to work, too, and his job is is one where he can't drop everything whenever she can't find childcare. One would also think that she'd understand what is required out of him in his line of work and that his job is just a teeny bit more important to the community as a whole than hers. She doesn't hold people's lives in her hands, he does. (Don't give me the bull crap that her job is just as important-if your child is severely injured or ill who do you want to see him or her first? A doctor or a teacher? If you said teacher you're either a liar or a terrible parent.)

    She jumps to conclusions and nothing or no one will dissuade her from them once she has them in her head. She immediately assumed that the Doc and Edith were essentially shacking up and she beat him over the head with Edith all during series 4. She doesn't know the man she supposedly loves very well if she thought that there was anything other than friendship with a colleague going on in his mind concerning Edith.

    She also has always been mean and hurtful when she doesn't get her way. She was that way with Danny when she didn't get her way or he said something that she didn't like. She didn't sit down and discuss things with him, she just shut him down and walked away. I can't remember what episode it was but it was the one that had the scene where they bought some plants if you care to see an example of that. In the case of Bert, instead of accepting responsibility as the headmistress of the school for her error of not proofreading the newspaper and not keeping it and its publication under her control and not disciplining that child for her actions she makes lame excuses and/or throws a tantrum.

    She's been that way numerous times over the years when it comes to the Doc-from her snippy comments about the Doc to Mylow's sister to her numerous comments to her co-workers about him when she's mad at him. Those are not the actions of the "feisty, independent woman" or the "suffering martyr" that most of you paint her as being but the actions of a selfish, petulant childwoman. The few times she rallies to his defense is when her reputation is also threatened, see the baby shower for an example of that. The comments the others were making were getting to the point where it was shining a spotlight on her bad judgement so she was forced to defend him as a means of defending herself.

    Let's not forget how she treats the Doc himself. She treats him like a child and if she doesn't get her way or he doesn't do things exactly the way she wants him to she either throws a tantrum or stomps out-sometimes both. When she does she makes nasty comments about him to others. You all wonder why the Doc doesn't confide in her about the return of his Hemophobia. Well, if I had overheard someone say things about me like the ones the Doc overheard her say to Mylow's sister about him she'd be the last person I'd confide anything of consequence to. I wouldn't trust that person as far as I could throw them ever again and I wouldn't want to give that person any more ammunition to use against me.

    Okay, spill, Adelie - tell us what you REALLY think.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 911
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    I hope I'm doing this correctly and writing a reply that will be posted. My first time... My opinion is that Louisa is going through exactly the conflict that many new mothers go through when they return to work, especially older mothers who have worked for a long time. They want to do their jobs, but they hate leaving their baby. They are so torn that it makes them on edge. The first time I realized that Martin was no longer phobic about blood was in episode 1 of this season and the older man whose caravan they damaged was bleeding all over but Martin handled it without flinching. Louisa may be assuming that he's over the blood thing and not even thinking about that. She didn't see him with the tube of blood after all. Martin's look for me was more his own inner turmoil and possibly a little jealousy about Louisa's attachment to the baby. Men do sometimes think their wives are more concerned about the children than they are about them.

    Karen, you are a very welcome addition to this forum! :)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,018
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    I hope I'm doing this correctly and writing a reply that will be posted. My first time... My opinion is that Louisa is going through exactly the conflict that many new mothers go through when they return to work, especially older mothers who have worked for a long time. They want to do their jobs, but they hate leaving their baby. They are so torn that it makes them on edge. The first time I realized that Martin was no longer phobic about blood was in episode 1 of this season and the older man whose caravan they damaged was bleeding all over but Martin handled it without flinching. Louisa may be assuming that he's over the blood thing and not even thinking about that. She didn't see him with the tube of blood after all. Martin's look for me was more his own inner turmoil and possibly a little jealousy about Louisa's attachment to the baby. Men do sometimes think their wives are more concerned about the children than they are about them.

    Hi, Karen. Welcome.

    Yes, I think in that moment Martin's inner turmoil has isolated him from everything going on in the room. He seems unaware of the conversation between Mike and Louisa and Louisa going off to school. He's standing there making his coffee in almost a robotic way. Louisa seems to try to get his attention as she goes out the door, but his reaction time is slow. He's a mess in that moment!
  • SusieSagitariusSusieSagitarius Posts: 1,250
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    Biffpup wrote: »
    Hi, Karen. Welcome.

    Yes, I think in that moment Martin's inner turmoil has isolated him from everything going on in the room. He seems unaware of the conversation between Mike and Louisa and Louisa going off to school. He's standing there making his coffee in almost a robotic way. Louisa seems to try to get his attention as she goes out the door, but his reaction time is slow. He's a mess in that moment!

    Absolutely! a mess.

    And welcome, Karen.
  • SusieSagitariusSusieSagitarius Posts: 1,250
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    And this surprises you how, exactly?
    ...(much text deleted for brevity.)
    ...nst me.

    On a personal note: Hi Adelie, missed you and your lively and strong opinions and media industry knowledge around here. Hope work has been treating you well, and that you've gotten some R & R in somewhere.

    I've seen Louisa as part of the problem from the word go. She and Martin both have their problems, yet somehow, the two halves can make a whole, is I think the way the story's architecture might have it.

    The story of these two people is so complex, just as complex as any human being is in their responses, thoughts, backgrounds, personalities, etc. Sometimes one seems more rational, while the next time it is the other, or some of both. I think it would be interesting to do the Venn diagram thing with their characteristics just to see visually where they intersect and if their other attributes are complimentary or not. I feel in my gut that they each have something to teach the other. And that's my story and I'm sticking to it.:p
  • NewParkNewPark Posts: 3,537
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    . I think it would be interesting to do the Venn diagram thing with their characteristics just to see visually where they intersect and if their other attributes are complimentary or not. I feel in my gut that they each have something to teach the other. And that's my story and I'm sticking to it.:p

    SusieS -- do you have the Venn diagram analogy that Martin Clunes made when speaking about the characters? I thought at the time it was quite informative, but now I can't quite remember it.
  • mmDerdekeammDerdekea Posts: 1,719
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    Why do some people in this thread watch the show if they hate the character of LG so much? It confuses me. Or is your love for the Doc blinding your opinion? As he can do no wrong it seems. (I've been lurking a long time and everything the Doc does has a reason but everything LG does doesn't have a reason so it seems, in your minds).

    I personally watch the show to (try) to enjoy it. I don't analyse it as it takes any enjoyment out of it.
    This season and last are weak. They seem to be turning LG into something horrible just to make the Doc look good. That isn't the kind of show I like and if they don't change it I know I won't be watching the next series. Why bother if they keep rehashing things?
    I know you all won't agree and that's fine. Just needed to vent.


    Actually, I do agree--they are turning LG into something horrible and they are having DM change slowly but positively. Not sure he looks good, but yes, I have real sympathy and empathy for him and I applaud his changes and his growth. LG? She's just kind of annoying.

    Also, I don't believe there is a rule that in every TV show you have to like all the characters to be considered worthy of watching the show. In the last couple of seasons, LG has been a very difficult character for me to like. What has she done that IS likeable? I happen to agree that Adelie's psychoanalytical analysis of her is dead on accurate; she is very disagreeable.

    And, of course, remember, she is Fictional. She is not a living person. We should not take things personally when she is criticized, or DM, or whomever.

    No one is saying that DM is perfect. It almost reminds me of that people said about William and Mary, and I only have seen the first season; that here is DM, trying hard to change and be accommodating with her (with patients, he is still his rude, grumpy self), and LG is just refusing to grow or change herself, or stop being tense, over-reactive and sometimes mean.

    I just pray once of LG to have a sense of humor and laugh out loud--like she did in E1 about the "This is my final warning". In that episode, yes, I was back to loving her. In E2 and E3 she is back to being annoying.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,389
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    mmDerdekea wrote: »
    Actually, I do agree--they are turning LG into something horrible and they are having DM change slowly but positively. Not sure he looks good, but yes, I have real sympathy and empathy for him and I applaud his changes and his growth. LG? She's just kind of annoying.

    Also, I don't believe there is a rule that in every TV show you have to like all the characters to be considered worthy of watching the show. In the last couple of seasons, LG has been a very difficult character for me to like. What has she done that IS likeable? I happen to agree that Adelie's psychoanalytical analysis of her is dead on accurate; she is very disagreeable.

    And, of course, remember, she is Fictional. She is not a living person. We should not take things personally when she is criticized, or DM, or whomever.

    No one is saying that DM is perfect. It almost reminds me of that people said about William and Mary, and I only have seen the first season; that here is DM, trying hard to change and be accommodating with her (with patients, he is still his rude, grumpy self), and LG is just refusing to grow or change herself, or stop being tense, over-reactive and sometimes mean.

    I just pray once of LG to have a sense of humor and laugh out loud--like she did in E1 about the "This is my final warning". In that episode, yes, I was back to loving her. In E2 and E3 she is back to being annoying.

    They are writing LG's character as "difficult" at the moment and for the last 2 series for a reason or reasons.
    I think one reason is to push DM past his limit and the other is to show LG's inner turmoil with the work/baby dilemma.

    If she was happily going with the flow and achieving it all everyone would be saying how unrealistic it is. They have to make her larger than life so she can stand out as a "force" in the show/storyline.

    I must say that I really liked e1 and maybe LG's behaviour and ability to laugh was part of the reason. Also DM cracked a joke!! AND there was touching. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 911
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    cc.cookie wrote: »
    They are writing LG's character as "difficult" at the moment and for the last 2 series for a reason or reasons.
    I think one reason is to push DM past his limit and the other is to show LG's inner turmoil with the work/baby dilemma.

    If she was happily going with the flow and achieving it all everyone would be saying how unrealistic it is. They have to make her larger than life so she can stand out as a "force" in the show/storyline.

    Listen, IMO this is the problem with LGE at the moment (and it was the problem with DM in much of S5): in the last two episodes she is playing mostly one note. That's what makes her unsympathetic. If she could have her annoying moments, but other times be soft or caring, or humorous, it would all work for me. It's that she is (we GET it BP) very stressed and mostly annoying. It's as though someone is speaking with the same voice at the same decibels all the time (reference Clive). They've sucked the life out of her. No wonder Martin is sleeping next to her, but not with her.
  • MofromcoMofromco Posts: 1,339
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    cc.cookie wrote: »
    They are writing LG's character as "difficult" at the moment and for the last 2 series for a reason or reasons.
    I think one reason is to push DM past his limit and the other is to show LG's inner turmoil with the work/baby dilemma.

    If she was happily going with the flow and achieving it all everyone would be saying how unrealistic it is. They have to make her larger than life so she can stand out as a "force" in the show/storyline.

    I believe thet are pushing the acceptability of Louisa's behavior to its outer limits. She has the opportunity to stay at home with her child with little financial sacrifice...and Adelie...I applaud you....his job is more important than hers. Harder to replace a GP in a small town than a school headmistress. I found her making fun of Martin with the "final warning" mocking not to be funny but unkind, because they don't have that funny sarcastic relationship as some of us have. She has to find a better outlet for her anxiety because being nasty and short with Martin is not going to work. I chose to stay home with my kids rather than practice Medicine because I could. She can too. I may not be the president of a Children's Hospital but I have 2 great sons. Also, with her behaving like that would you be one to want to be close or sexual? Not an attractive way to be.
    I wouldn't be surprised if they are setting Louisa up th have her behavior deteriorate more. Some spoilers would suggest she has something wrong with her neurologically...hence behaviorally. We are fated to continue to have this debate, so we better get used to it. It looks like things are going to go to hell in a hand basket. Everything they've said about this series promises the emotional roller coaster ride. Adelie...good job....sometimes I say non-Pc things too but it's just another viewpoint.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,290
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  • SusieSagitariusSusieSagitarius Posts: 1,250
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    NewPark wrote: »
    SusieS -- do you have the Venn diagram analogy that Martin Clunes made when speaking about the characters? I thought at the time it was quite informative, but now I can't quite remember it.

    NewPark, I searched the thread for "Venn diagram" and couldn't find what you seem to be referring to when we were talking about it. I only found Adelie's post about Venn diagrams. And other posts where we all used "Venn diagram". That is all for now.
  • SusieSagitariusSusieSagitarius Posts: 1,250
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    ReneeBird wrote: »

    So funny, Renee. Thanks!
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,018
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    ReneeBird wrote: »

    :D:D:D:D:D:D:D
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,018
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    Listen, IMO this is the problem with LGE at the moment (and it was the problem with DM in much of S5): in the last two episodes she is playing mostly one note. That's what makes her unsympathetic. If she could have her annoying moments, but other times be soft or caring, or humorous, it would all work for me. It's that she is (we GET it BP) very stressed and mostly annoying. It's as though someone is speaking with the same voice at the same decibels all the time (reference Clive). They've sucked the life out of her. No wonder Martin is sleeping next to her, but not with her.

    I think you've got it, statesidefan. In E1 of this new series, Louisa was Louisa. She had funny moments, happy moments, humorous moments, and problematic moments. In E2 and E3, her character is almost one-dimensional. She's "a difficult person", to use the description she applied to Martin at the end of S5. There were episodes in S5 in which she was difficult and one-dimensional too.

    I hope that this is being done for a purpose (and suspect it is) that will play out for us later.

    OMG, as I typed this, that craziness a few of you have already encountered happened. Certain words turned orange, with a double underscore, and when I passed my mouse over one, it took me to an ad. ACK! I don't like this!
  • MofromcoMofromco Posts: 1,339
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    NewPark, I searched the thread for "Venn diagram" and couldn't find what you seem to be referring to when we were talking about it. I only found Adelie's post about Venn diagrams. And other posts where we all used "Venn diagram". That is all for now.


    There was a stretch where Venn diagrams were discussed...let's not go there again........too simplistic.....got really esoteric and strange
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,389
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    Listen, IMO this is the problem with LGE at the moment (and it was the problem with DM in much of S5): in the last two episodes she is playing mostly one note. That's what makes her unsympathetic. If she could have her annoying moments, but other times be soft or caring, or humorous, it would all work for me. It's that she is (we GET it BP) very stressed and mostly annoying. It's as though someone is speaking with the same voice at the same decibels all the time (reference Clive). They've sucked the life out of her. No wonder Martin is sleeping next to her, but not with her.

    Ah that's it! For the first time PB and MC are thumping us over the head with LG is "stressed" rather than the usual subtle approach. We are not that thick.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,389
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    ReneeBird wrote: »

    :D:D:D:cool:
  • MofromcoMofromco Posts: 1,339
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    cc.cookie wrote: »
    Ah that's it! For the first time PB and MC are thumping us over the head with LG is "stressed" rather than the usual subtle approach. We are not that thick.


    That's it Cookie! Stressed....yeah....
  • ConniejConniej Posts: 972
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    NewPark wrote: »
    SusieS -- do you have the Venn diagram analogy that Martin Clunes made when speaking about the characters? I thought at the time it was quite informative, but now I can't quite remember it.
    NewPark, I searched the thread for "Venn diagram" and couldn't find what you seem to be referring to when we were talking about it. I only found Adelie's post about Venn diagrams. And other posts where we all used "Venn diagram". That is all for now.


    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/showtracker/2012/04/martin-clunes-talks-doc-martin.html
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