Expert saying anything from a fine to 15 years(unlikely) plus he could still get up to 5 years each for the shooting offences( also unlikely)
I'd expect a couple of years at least.
I ( and a few others) have been saying CH from the start and got all sorts of abuse from some FMs. I ended up avoiding this thread as the guilty of murder mob were coming out with ridiculous arguments.
This is why I have avoided this thread as well. With some exceptions, as I said before, it was decided, before any evidence whatsoever being presented, that he was guilty of murder and were unable/unwilling to take on board that that people (rightly or wrongly) do not act in the way they think they should act. Humans, when panicking, frightened or under pressure, do not always react in a calm, rational manner just as witnesses, however honest and competent, can be mistaken especially when an 'event' lasts for only a few seconds. Think the judge has done a good job in attempting to untangle a mass of conflicting witness evidence (from both sides) and conflicting and sometimes inconclusive forensic evidence.
CH negligence is still a possibility, no minimum sentence required...but a custodial sentence is required for CH . eNCA is stating.
I'm not sure a custodial sentence is required. On Sky they've been talking about all possibilities and definitely said custodial wouldn't be automatic.
We're sitting here in shock. I've never heard a verdict where all of the evidence except the accused's version has been wiped out.
Yeah, she seems to have taken his version at face value, as she has for evidence that supports his version.
E.g. She said that the fact that he appeared to be very upset shortly after the killing means that he couldn't have possibly intended to kill her. But is extremely likely that if he had killed her in anger, he would also have been distraught shortly afterwards when his anger was replaced by other emotions.
An objective view would be that being distraught was not proof either way and should have been discounted, but she only seemed to do that to DT evidence.
There were some other similar pieces too.
I think she has taken a far too simplistic view on a lot of the evidence, particularly the fact he was so upset made it hard to believe he had meant to kill. That is just false. Many may kill in the heat of an argument but then regret things. Sorry but I have to look at Judge Masipa's relatively light experience as a lawyer here, and wonder at her competency.
She didn't accept Dr Stipp's evidence about the gun shots but did accept his view of OP's 'remorse'.
Stipp couldn't tell the difference between gun and bat. He made a mistake about when he saw a figure in the window and he described lights that were not on. You would not mistake seeing OP face to face.
Dolus is gone, though, isn't it? Both directus and eventualis. So there is no murder conviction possible.
I was replying to the comment at the point it was made, I've got behind a bit but just making the point that the possible outcomes are being addressed one at a time
Tbh, I said a while ago that, while I believed it was murder with intent and that enough had been said to prove this, I feared the court would go for culpable homicide because it was the safest conclusion. I hate that I was right because this is not justice for Reeva and so much evidence has been overlooked. M'lady is being contradictory. She has basically said Oscar was a poor witness and then gone ahead and based her findings on his word only.
She has accepted that OP lied and was a terrible witness; nevertheless she builds her whole argument on the premise that his cooked up story is true. Plus she misinterpreted his reaction of remorse after the murder.
He came out with his version straight after the incident and the fact that there was no evidence to definitively dispute his version means he was either telling the truth or was extremely lucky.
That along his distress is why the judge correctly dismisses premeditated murder.
When I get woken up by a noise in my bed the FIRST thing I do is check whether my partner is in bed. If he is THEN I will get worried. If he isn't, then I know it will be him. Also if they ARE in bed and I hear a noise I will psychically wake him up and make sure he is awake.
Not rocket science. Not even brain surgery. Just common normal human behaviour.
So an intruder is in the house and he never bothered to reach over and wake her and make sure she was away from the room/ door before firing man killer bullets into the door?
*shakes head*
I make sure it's not my cat making noise. Though often it is him just getting more comfy or knocking something over to get more comfy. My first reaction is not to arm myself and assume.
When I get woken up by a noise in my bed the FIRST thing I do is check whether my partner is in bed. If he is THEN I will get worried. If he isn't, then I know it will be him. Also if they ARE in bed and I hear a noise I will psychically wake him up and make sure he is awake.
Not rocket science. Not even brain surgery. Just common normal human behaviour.
So an intruder is in the house and he never bothered to reach over and wake her and make sure she was away from the room/ door before firing man killer bullets into the door?
Good morning All! I'm just joining the party/funeral and see we are at lunch. What time does it restart? Premed Murder is out, is Murder out too? TIA
Yep no murder charge. The next one they are looking at is culpable homicide basically a manslaughter charge. Could get 7-10 years for that. After that, no idea, Accidental death or something. Seems a lot of the state's evidence has been discounted, and the judge is simply just going by legal definitions to look for what verdict fits best. I get the feeling he may just get away with this.
Comments
This is why I have avoided this thread as well. With some exceptions, as I said before, it was decided, before any evidence whatsoever being presented, that he was guilty of murder and were unable/unwilling to take on board that that people (rightly or wrongly) do not act in the way they think they should act. Humans, when panicking, frightened or under pressure, do not always react in a calm, rational manner just as witnesses, however honest and competent, can be mistaken especially when an 'event' lasts for only a few seconds. Think the judge has done a good job in attempting to untangle a mass of conflicting witness evidence (from both sides) and conflicting and sometimes inconclusive forensic evidence.
I'm not sure a custodial sentence is required. On Sky they've been talking about all possibilities and definitely said custodial wouldn't be automatic.
We're sitting here in shock. I've never heard a verdict where all of the evidence except the accused's version has been wiped out.
i am so grateful for the jury system in the UK!
Stipp couldn't tell the difference between gun and bat. He made a mistake about when he saw a figure in the window and he described lights that were not on. You would not mistake seeing OP face to face.
I was replying to the comment at the point it was made, I've got behind a bit but just making the point that the possible outcomes are being addressed one at a time
I found that unbelievable >:(
"OP & family all left court leaving brother Carl in his wheelchair in court."
This seems a bit mean of them if he can't wheel himself out !
Exactly, Chach. Agreed again.
your opinion counts as much as anyone else's.
don't let anyone put you off posting - this thread is free for all
He came out with his version straight after the incident and the fact that there was no evidence to definitively dispute his version means he was either telling the truth or was extremely lucky.
That along his distress is why the judge correctly dismisses premeditated murder.
I agree, my sympathies and best wishes go to all females in SA.
I make sure it's not my cat making noise. Though often it is him just getting more comfy or knocking something over to get more comfy. My first reaction is not to arm myself and assume.
That is what you would do, that's the point.
Yes.
As I said weeks ago.
It was obvious.
Yep no murder charge. The next one they are looking at is culpable homicide basically a manslaughter charge. Could get 7-10 years for that. After that, no idea, Accidental death or something. Seems a lot of the state's evidence has been discounted, and the judge is simply just going by legal definitions to look for what verdict fits best. I get the feeling he may just get away with this.
Murder yes. Still CH to come and could walk free if found guilty of that.
this has been pathetic so far
It won't. They shot too high and missed.
And this verdict is sending out a very depressing message indeed.
It feels like it's been going on for years!