From what ive learned about child abuse, it depends on the frequency and whether a mark is left on the child. I was told that it is not illegal to smack a child, but if a mark is left, it can be investigated by social services, and may be considered as abuse. Im sure its not actually that rigid, but that's one thing that sticks out in my mind.
I find it hard to believe that anyone could justify slapping a child in the face as a way of "disciplining" them. I have been smacked in the past (not loads i want to add), but never in face, and never that hard really.
Going by what you said, id have considered reporting it in some way.
Why would any adult need to use violence against a child to stop them endangering themselves? I had five children and never even thought about doing anything like that.
Well done, that was your choice to make. However there are many ways to bring up children surely you would acknowledge that.
My point is that characterising all physical punishment as abuse is clearly not true. Its a massive over simplification. It is a matter of degree. In the same way that allowing a child the occasional bit of junk food isn't the same as feeding them exclusively on a diet of McDonald's and Burger King. One is a considered decision, one is bad for the child's long-term well being.
I don't agree with corporal punishment, but calling the smacking of a hand 'violence' is over-egging things a bit.
My dad hit me once and it just made me hate him.
I was smacked a few times as a kid - usually for not coming home at the time i was supposed to. Being smacked didnt make me come home at the right time because the fun i was having with my friends far outweighed the 30 mins of being told off and the sting of being smacked.
Being grounded and having things taken off me worked far better as a deterrant!
Well done, that was your choice to make. However there are many ways to bring up children surely you would acknowledge that.
My point is that characterising all physical punishment as abuse is clearly not true. Its a massive over simplification. It is a matter of degree. In the same way that allowing a child the occasional bit of junk food isn't the same as feeding them exclusively on a diet of McDonald's and Burger King. One is a considered decision, one is bad for the child's long-term well being.
No not as far as hitting children goes, it's abuse and it's wrong, full stop.
Today I saw a woman in town hitting her child - slapping her face twice, really hard. Kid was about 4, I'd guess, and it totally horrified me - I noticed that some other people looked pretty stunned by it as well. No idea what the girl had done, but I got to wondering if it should be made completely illegal.
I realise it is already illegal in schools, but not in the home and seemingly not in public either. At the end of the day, if someone did that to an adult, they could be prosecuted and sent to prison for common assault, and whilst I appreciate some kids can be little sods at times, I'm wholly unconvinced that smacking them is the best way forward.
Thoughts ?
what you describe doesn't sound like reasonable chastisement, so it probably already is illegal
I don't agree with corporal punishment, but calling the smacking of a hand 'violence' is over-egging things a bit.
My dad hit me once and it just made me hate him.
Would you feel the same way if you saw a grown man smacking his wife on the hand because she did something wrong? Would you not consider that a violent or abusive relationship? I certainly would. I'd be horrified if I saw such a thing.
Why is it considered totally unacceptable to use corporal punishment against other adults, no matter how "mild", yet perfectly acceptable to use it against children, the most vulnerable and defencless members of society? More people really need to start waking up to this glaring double standard.
Would you feel the same way if you saw a grown man smacking his wife on the hand because she did something wrong? Would you not consider that a violent or abusive relationship? I certainly would. I'd be horrified if I saw such a thing.
Why is it considered totally unacceptable to use corporal punishment against other adults, no matter how "mild", yet perfectly acceptable to use it against children, the most vulnerable and defencless members of society? More people really need to start waking up to this glaring double standard.
You'd be 'horrified' if you saw a man smack his wife on the hand? Doesn't take much then!
i think you have no idea what violence really is.
if this is the level of reason in this thread, then 'ahm oot'!!
Would you feel the same way if you saw a grown man smacking his wife on the hand because she did something wrong? Would you not consider that a violent or abusive relationship? I certainly would. I'd be horrified if I saw such a thing.
Why is it considered totally unacceptable to use corporal punishment against other adults, no matter how "mild", yet perfectly acceptable to use it against children, the most vulnerable and defencless members of society? More people really need to start waking up to this glaring double standard.
There is a current advert on TV, a grown child is seen leaving home, the parents now have time to do things for themselves once again.
There is a scene in which they are on board a ship, intimate dinner for two and the wife pinches one of her husbands chips, in pretend annoyance he smacks her on the back of hand.
what you describe doesn't sound like reasonable chastisement, so it probably already is illegal
I agree - illegal IF it left a mark.
I am in favour of allowing the smacking of young children as reasonable chastisement fror serious wrongdoing, but I think the law needs strengthening to prohibit smacking, slapping or shaking any part of the head or face, and to prohibit the smacking of older children (say teenagers). I stopped all smacking before my kids were 9, probably much less, and even before then it was rare, but I will defend the right of others to do it, as mentioned .
There are, however slapping a child can also be a reasonable punishment. There are many ways to enforce discipline, corporal punishment can be one of them if used proportionately and in a considered way ie not in anger.
Rubbish. If you see a grown man misbehaving would you ever consider approaching him and hitting him? No you wouldnt so to hit a child for the same thing is cowardly.
Why not? If course it can have two meanings, that's why we distinguish between a soldier and a serial killer. What an odd position to take.
Smacking a child to stop it endangering itself on a hot fire for example, is very different to a smacking a child because it's doing your head in. One is a considered act in the child's best interests to teach it not to touch something which will cause it real damage, one is a loss of control on the adult's part and is rarely constructive.
No it isnt. Firstly you should have the patience to educate the child about what is dangerous rather than resorting to violence to get your point across. If another parents child was close to harming itself on a hot plate would you think its perfectly acceptable to start smacking that child?
No, frankly there are times when I am out, and there are screaming, tantrum throwing brats, I would deliver a smack on the bottom if they were mine, but slapping on the face is wrong. The law on smacking is clear.
I'm OK with a smack on the bottom in situations which require immediate sanction - ie your child belting another child and taking their toy. In fact I wouldn't even call that 'corporal punishment'.
But my mother had a terrible temper. I had plates thrown at me and would occasionally be deliberately and punitively beaten. I'm not sure whether marks would have been left but it made me fear her (and despise my father for letting it happen). I remember once falling over an oil barrel sticking out the ground while playing chase. I got a nasty cut and wandered round for ages dripping blood because I was afraid to go home on account of the oil on my new clothes.
She clearly crossed the line but I guess one way of tackling that sort of thing is to remove the line and ban it completely so there is no room for ambiguity.
what you describe doesn't sound like reasonable chastisement, so it probably already is illegal
If this hideous example of a loving mother didn't leave a mark on her child's face, it's legal.
If an adult did the same to her it would be an assault. Smack all you like just don't leave a mark on your helpless child, is the message. Hurting my children was never part of being a mother for me.
If this hideous example of a loving mother didn't leave a mark on her child's face, it's legal.
If an adult did the same to her it would be an assault. Smack all you like just don't leave a mark is the message. Hurting my children was never part of being a mother for me.
considering the force in which the OP says they witnessed the slap to a 4 year old, how can there not be a mark.
I'm OK with a smack on the bottom in situations which require immediate sanction - ie your child belting another child and taking their toy. In fact I wouldn't even call that 'corporal punishment'.
But my mother had a terrible temper. I had plates thrown at me and would occasionally be deliberately and punitively beaten. I'm not sure whether marks would have been left but it made me fear her (and despise my father for letting it happen). I remember once falling over an oil barrel sticking out the ground while playing chase. I got a nasty cut and wandered round for ages dripping blood because I was afraid to go home on account of the oil on my new clothes.
She clearly crossed the line but I guess one way of tackling that sort of thing is to remove the line and ban it completely so there is no room for ambiguity.
I think this is the problem, corporal punishment spans a huge range of behaviour, some of it is entirely reasonable parenting some of it is clearly unreasonable.
To ban it completely seems to be a case of using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. We already have laws addressing the unreasonable end of the scale, that should be sufficient, although they should probably be better enforced.
One of the reasons that this kind of discussion is difficult is because there are people with very fixed ideas of what is right and wrong in terms of parenting, that is fine in terms of how they want to approach it personally, but such a militant imposition of approach is rarely constructive and really just serves to close down the conversation.
Not really sure how banning a parent from slapping a child would be enforced without installing cameras in private homes. No thanks for that crap.
The government by not making all forms of smacking illegal - regardless whether realistically it'd be able to be enforced or not - they are not only condoning violence, but condoning violence towards the most vulnerable in society, children. That is just plain wrong.
The government by not making all forms of smacking illegal - regardless whether realistically it'd be able to be enforced or not - they are not only condoning violence, but condoning violence towards the most vulnerable in society, children. That is just plain wrong.
Except that they are not because we already have laws in place that are supposed to prevent violence against everyone. No new laws are needed.
Comments
I find it hard to believe that anyone could justify slapping a child in the face as a way of "disciplining" them. I have been smacked in the past (not loads i want to add), but never in face, and never that hard really.
Going by what you said, id have considered reporting it in some way.
Well done, that was your choice to make. However there are many ways to bring up children surely you would acknowledge that.
My point is that characterising all physical punishment as abuse is clearly not true. Its a massive over simplification. It is a matter of degree. In the same way that allowing a child the occasional bit of junk food isn't the same as feeding them exclusively on a diet of McDonald's and Burger King. One is a considered decision, one is bad for the child's long-term well being.
I was smacked a few times as a kid - usually for not coming home at the time i was supposed to. Being smacked didnt make me come home at the right time because the fun i was having with my friends far outweighed the 30 mins of being told off and the sting of being smacked.
Being grounded and having things taken off me worked far better as a deterrant!
No not as far as hitting children goes, it's abuse and it's wrong, full stop.
I disagree, full stop (here >.<)
The maps in this link give you some idea of the civilized world !
That used to be my motto too, when I was a kid.
Then I realised that I may have misunderstood.
Aww :-D :-D
what you describe doesn't sound like reasonable chastisement, so it probably already is illegal
Would you feel the same way if you saw a grown man smacking his wife on the hand because she did something wrong? Would you not consider that a violent or abusive relationship? I certainly would. I'd be horrified if I saw such a thing.
Why is it considered totally unacceptable to use corporal punishment against other adults, no matter how "mild", yet perfectly acceptable to use it against children, the most vulnerable and defencless members of society? More people really need to start waking up to this glaring double standard.
You'd be 'horrified' if you saw a man smack his wife on the hand? Doesn't take much then!
i think you have no idea what violence really is.
if this is the level of reason in this thread, then 'ahm oot'!!
There is a scene in which they are on board a ship, intimate dinner for two and the wife pinches one of her husbands chips, in pretend annoyance he smacks her on the back of hand.
Would you claim the advert is promoting violence?
I agree - illegal IF it left a mark.
I am in favour of allowing the smacking of young children as reasonable chastisement fror serious wrongdoing, but I think the law needs strengthening to prohibit smacking, slapping or shaking any part of the head or face, and to prohibit the smacking of older children (say teenagers). I stopped all smacking before my kids were 9, probably much less, and even before then it was rare, but I will defend the right of others to do it, as mentioned .
Rubbish. If you see a grown man misbehaving would you ever consider approaching him and hitting him? No you wouldnt so to hit a child for the same thing is cowardly.
No it isnt. Firstly you should have the patience to educate the child about what is dangerous rather than resorting to violence to get your point across. If another parents child was close to harming itself on a hot plate would you think its perfectly acceptable to start smacking that child?
But my mother had a terrible temper. I had plates thrown at me and would occasionally be deliberately and punitively beaten. I'm not sure whether marks would have been left but it made me fear her (and despise my father for letting it happen). I remember once falling over an oil barrel sticking out the ground while playing chase. I got a nasty cut and wandered round for ages dripping blood because I was afraid to go home on account of the oil on my new clothes.
She clearly crossed the line but I guess one way of tackling that sort of thing is to remove the line and ban it completely so there is no room for ambiguity.
If this hideous example of a loving mother didn't leave a mark on her child's face, it's legal.
If an adult did the same to her it would be an assault. Smack all you like just don't leave a mark on your helpless child, is the message. Hurting my children was never part of being a mother for me.
considering the force in which the OP says they witnessed the slap to a 4 year old, how can there not be a mark.
I think this is the problem, corporal punishment spans a huge range of behaviour, some of it is entirely reasonable parenting some of it is clearly unreasonable.
To ban it completely seems to be a case of using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. We already have laws addressing the unreasonable end of the scale, that should be sufficient, although they should probably be better enforced.
One of the reasons that this kind of discussion is difficult is because there are people with very fixed ideas of what is right and wrong in terms of parenting, that is fine in terms of how they want to approach it personally, but such a militant imposition of approach is rarely constructive and really just serves to close down the conversation.
The government by not making all forms of smacking illegal - regardless whether realistically it'd be able to be enforced or not - they are not only condoning violence, but condoning violence towards the most vulnerable in society, children. That is just plain wrong.
Except that they are not because we already have laws in place that are supposed to prevent violence against everyone. No new laws are needed.