I wonder if the "people will lose their jobs" arguers felt so strongly in the 1970s when car plants started using machinery to build cars and thousands lost their jobs.
Any car drivers amongst you very principled people, or would giving up your car be a step too far?
It's fair to say that people can and possibly will be replaced in many more professions in the years ahead. That's progress. And, no, people that are unaffected won't complain - especially if they're told prices will fall etc.
But you do have to wonder what the jobs of tomorrow will be. Working in a supermarket can be a pretty decent job for a lot of people that wish to work part time, or supplement another income etc.
I am not sure we can stop it, as staff costs are always a huge part of any business. In fact, I wonder what the unions think of what's happening? Doesn't anyone find it a little sad that staff members are even paid at times to direct people towards the machines that are going to make them redundant eventually?
Doesn't anyone find it a little sad that staff members are even paid at times to direct people towards the machines that are going to make them redundant eventually?
Our local M&S has the self-service checkouts set apart from the staffed ones and there are staff who just monitor the self-service area and help customers use the machines. The self-service staff have to use their initiative to keep the queue moving and deal with problems promptly. Maybe In a strange way that is a more satisfying and demanding job than just routinely scanning items and putting them back on the conveyor belt. In the future we may not need checkout operators, but we'll always need staff to tell idiot customers how to use the self-service checkouts!
I once heard a man in the supermarket refuse to use the self scan as "I don't get paid to scan shopping" and couldn't believe what I was hearing. That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard anyone say. Now there are others with the same notion trying to convince us that we are being somehow duped into doing something for free, and too stupid to understand that we are being used as free labour by the supermarkets!! What kind of mind dreams this up?
The other frequently rolled out "it takes away peoples jobs" argument is almost as daft although probably misguided to be fair. Self scans need several people there to help customers, several of them in fact to do all the shiftsvand cover breaks etc. No one loses their job because a supermarket had self scan. Not one person.
If people can't be bothered or prefer to be served, fair enough, but the rest of us who embrace things that make shopping quicker and easier are not having our minds altered by the supermarkets. We just have other things to do.
In the future we may not need checkout operators, but we'll always need staff to tell idiot customers how to use the self-service checkouts!
The rate of pay will be a lot lower, and I think when Tesco started it was one member of staff to cover 2 or 4 machines, which then increased over time.
I've been at an Asda where the staff member has gone off for whatever reason and not returned, leaving me and others waiting for things like age verification or to deal with large, heavy, items (in my case a printer) that couldn't be placed in the bagging area etc.
I waited, but I've seen people just leave their stuff and go (which then means that member of staff now has something else to deal with instead of the routine stuff that these machines need for a multitude of reasons - not JUST people being clueless).
I much prefer self scanning as I shop, bagging everything up as I do and just walking out without any fuss - unless picked for a random re-scan - and think the self checkouts may have a fairly limited lifespan anyway.
The other frequently rolled out "it takes away peoples jobs" argument is almost as daft although probably misguided to be fair. Self scans need several people there to help customers, several of them in fact to do all the shiftsvand cover breaks etc. No one loses their job because a supermarket had self scan. Not one person.
I do believe you're right in that nobody has been made redundant, but I do think you're forgetting that supermarkets will simply not hire replacements for people as they go, and gradually reduce the workforce.
And not having skilled staff means lower rates of pay for those who will just perform a basic customer service role.
Self checkouts don't need anywhere near as many members of staff. If one person can ultimately cover 8 or 16 terminals, and improved software and hardware design can eliminate most of the common issues that take up staff time, then you won't have loads of checkout staff sitting around waiting to be called to open a traditional till, assuming there are many left.
Tesco has in the last year or two stopped its policy of having no staffed checkouts between 11pm and 6am (I forget the exact times, but something like that) because customers complained. In fact, I reckon Tesco noticed before that - in that people stopped going at night, as is more likely.
For a few items, self checkouts are fine, but do a large shop - and on your own - and it's incredibly slow having to scan AND pack, so I won't do it at all. Hence, my belief that these things will come and go in record time, being replaced by self scanning as you shop - and if not with a portable Motorola terminal, using your smartphone.
Go to Sainsbury's London Colney and try the new Scan & Go app, which worked quite well, save for the odd parts of the hyperstore that had poor or no Wi-Fi coverage needed to operate. And, given you pay on your smartphone, you can just walk out without even having to hand back a scanner. In theory, you could get rid of staff completely as there's no need for human interaction AT ALL.
Just keep some people at the customer service desk and that's it.
As I said above: Fair enough if people don't use them because they prefer to talk to someone (I have a social life for that but each to their own) or because they're too stubborn or lazy to learn how to use something new, but not using them because you're claiming that by using them you're somehow working and not being paid for it is a stupid argument.
It's that ridiculous argument that I've got an objection with, it comes across that you think that you're somehow superior and getting one over "the man" and that the people that use them are idiots when in reality it's just that you can't be bothered to take a few minutes to learn something new.
I've got great manners and a fabulous social life too. Thanks for your concern though.
Well that's certainly a weight off my mind.You're welcome.
I much prefer self scanning as I shop, bagging everything up as I do and just walking out without any fuss - unless picked for a random re-scan - and think the self checkouts may have a fairly limited lifespan anyway.
I prefer that system too but the only place I know that operates it is the Waitrose 20 minutes' drive away. For whatever reason none of the other local shops have hand-held scanners. Sainsbury's did about 10 years ago but abandoned them.
A bit rude. Plus you didn't bother to answer my question. Fair enough if people don't use them because they prefer to talk to someone (I have a social life for that but each to their own) or because they're too stubborn or lazy to learn how to use something new, but not using them because you're claiming that by using them you're somehow working and not being paid for it is a stupid argument.
The fact is they are a good invention, even more so the Scan as You Shop.
Anyway, can't talk for long as I've got to go to Tesco and sit outside laughing at all the sad people leaving who are being made redundant because of the invasion of the machines.
Sainsbury's did about 10 years ago but abandoned them.
I do wonder how Sainsbury's decides what it's going to do. Our local store has the hand held scanners, while the next nearest has the Scan & Go app for your phone.
It's as if it's all one big load of trials that never end and they can't decide what to go with.
Tesco isn't much better. It's flagship store in Hatfield now has scanners, but many other stores (even bigger ones) don't. Some don't even take contact less cards yet.
I haven't read all of this thread, however my thoughts on self-service checkouts are that they are a fantastic idea...howeaver they need tweeking. It's not a simple case of just scanning your items and placing them in the bag. So many tiems I have sued them and had the alert messages sayign that I've removed an item from the bagging area...when I haven't. Along with many other error messages. The way they work at the moment, it's way too easy to make a mistake. Also, they need clearer instructions...I understand hwo to use them, but for elderley people it must be a nightmare.
I blame self-service checkouts for the destruction of our social skills
Now you go to shop, pick up item, self-checkout, walk out.
There is no speaking involved. no banter with the checkout assistant
I don't "banter" with friends and family, let alone perfect strangers sat behind a checkout. I will say "hello" "please" and "thank you" etc at the right moments but I'm there to buy food, not catch up with a friend.
I think they serve a purpose for people with just a few items who then don't need to stand in a queue for 5 minutes when they can complete their transaction in probably under a minute. I worry a little about people who use them solely to avoid having to talk to another person. I mean geez, really? I find it slightly annoying when someone pulls up to the self-serve machine (intended for a few items or less as per the sign above) with a trolley full of stuff and takes about 10 minutes to scan everything. >:(
The last time I used the self-scan at the larger ASDA store was to buy 2 wine glasses. Upon scanning them, the monitor to said to wait for staff assistance with packing (good god I'm not 3 years old). When she finally made it over and did the over-ride with her employee card, it still wouldn't accept the bar code, she spent about 3 minutes trying to figure out why it wasn't working. In hindsight it would have been quicker to go to a regular cashier but I'll know for next time.
Self service is mostly fine apart from the small version of theTesco ones that have an 'upper'bagging area that is way too small to put your shopping on to.....What annoys me is the excessive and often dehumanising 'herding' by staff as they try to process the customers at busy periods.......too much waving and pointing where its not always necessary and sometimes the staff clearly don't see the massive difference in impact of 'next' compared to 'next please' when they are calling people forward.
Self service tills are slower than manned ones if you have a large trolley of shopping, as with the manned one you can pack whilst it is being scanned.
I blame self-service checkouts for the destruction of our social skills
Now you go to shop, pick up item, self-checkout, walk out.
There is no speaking involved. no banter with the checkout assistant
I combat that by talking to the machine. It's actually more fulfilling than engaging in conversation with some of the morons that man the actual tills who insist in engaging in humorous 'banter'
I combat that by talking to the machine. It's actually more fulfilling than engaging in conversation with some of the morons that man the actual tills who insist in engaging in humorous 'banter'
I tried that, but all the machine saying to me was 'Have you swiped your Nectar card?', which angered me as being a powerful all-knowing computer, it knew that I hadn't.
Hence, my belief that these things will come and go in record time, being replaced by self scanning as you shop - and if not with a portable Motorola terminal, using your smartphone.
Dear me I hope not. I know it's incredible but not everyone feels the need to carry around a mobile - any mobile - let alone a smartphone. My phone is basic. It doesn't make the coffee or do handstands - it just makes calls. It only gets aired if I absolutely can't miss an expected call or if the car is making funny noises (in case I get stranded).
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Any car drivers amongst you very principled people, or would giving up your car be a step too far?
But you do have to wonder what the jobs of tomorrow will be. Working in a supermarket can be a pretty decent job for a lot of people that wish to work part time, or supplement another income etc.
I am not sure we can stop it, as staff costs are always a huge part of any business. In fact, I wonder what the unions think of what's happening? Doesn't anyone find it a little sad that staff members are even paid at times to direct people towards the machines that are going to make them redundant eventually?
Our local M&S has the self-service checkouts set apart from the staffed ones and there are staff who just monitor the self-service area and help customers use the machines. The self-service staff have to use their initiative to keep the queue moving and deal with problems promptly. Maybe In a strange way that is a more satisfying and demanding job than just routinely scanning items and putting them back on the conveyor belt. In the future we may not need checkout operators, but we'll always need staff to tell idiot customers how to use the self-service checkouts!
The other frequently rolled out "it takes away peoples jobs" argument is almost as daft although probably misguided to be fair. Self scans need several people there to help customers, several of them in fact to do all the shiftsvand cover breaks etc. No one loses their job because a supermarket had self scan. Not one person.
If people can't be bothered or prefer to be served, fair enough, but the rest of us who embrace things that make shopping quicker and easier are not having our minds altered by the supermarkets. We just have other things to do.
The rate of pay will be a lot lower, and I think when Tesco started it was one member of staff to cover 2 or 4 machines, which then increased over time.
I've been at an Asda where the staff member has gone off for whatever reason and not returned, leaving me and others waiting for things like age verification or to deal with large, heavy, items (in my case a printer) that couldn't be placed in the bagging area etc.
I waited, but I've seen people just leave their stuff and go (which then means that member of staff now has something else to deal with instead of the routine stuff that these machines need for a multitude of reasons - not JUST people being clueless).
I much prefer self scanning as I shop, bagging everything up as I do and just walking out without any fuss - unless picked for a random re-scan - and think the self checkouts may have a fairly limited lifespan anyway.
I do believe you're right in that nobody has been made redundant, but I do think you're forgetting that supermarkets will simply not hire replacements for people as they go, and gradually reduce the workforce.
And not having skilled staff means lower rates of pay for those who will just perform a basic customer service role.
Self checkouts don't need anywhere near as many members of staff. If one person can ultimately cover 8 or 16 terminals, and improved software and hardware design can eliminate most of the common issues that take up staff time, then you won't have loads of checkout staff sitting around waiting to be called to open a traditional till, assuming there are many left.
Tesco has in the last year or two stopped its policy of having no staffed checkouts between 11pm and 6am (I forget the exact times, but something like that) because customers complained. In fact, I reckon Tesco noticed before that - in that people stopped going at night, as is more likely.
For a few items, self checkouts are fine, but do a large shop - and on your own - and it's incredibly slow having to scan AND pack, so I won't do it at all. Hence, my belief that these things will come and go in record time, being replaced by self scanning as you shop - and if not with a portable Motorola terminal, using your smartphone.
Go to Sainsbury's London Colney and try the new Scan & Go app, which worked quite well, save for the odd parts of the hyperstore that had poor or no Wi-Fi coverage needed to operate. And, given you pay on your smartphone, you can just walk out without even having to hand back a scanner. In theory, you could get rid of staff completely as there's no need for human interaction AT ALL.
Just keep some people at the customer service desk and that's it.
Well that's certainly a weight off my mind.You're welcome.
I prefer that system too but the only place I know that operates it is the Waitrose 20 minutes' drive away. For whatever reason none of the other local shops have hand-held scanners. Sainsbury's did about 10 years ago but abandoned them.
As I said, Plonker.
Haha, on what basis? You're just being rude and ignorant and not offering any arguments or discussion, and apparently I'm the "plonker". Wow!
Ah - that's better
(you need to be quicker than that at the edits
EDIT: that's weird - when the page loads the spelling has been corrected, then it flashes back to the original post with the error
I do wonder how Sainsbury's decides what it's going to do. Our local store has the hand held scanners, while the next nearest has the Scan & Go app for your phone.
It's as if it's all one big load of trials that never end and they can't decide what to go with.
Tesco isn't much better. It's flagship store in Hatfield now has scanners, but many other stores (even bigger ones) don't. Some don't even take contact less cards yet.
Waitrose seems to have them almost everywhere.
Now you go to shop, pick up item, self-checkout, walk out.
There is no speaking involved. no banter with the checkout assistant
Human staff will always be required to re-stock the shelves.. they haven't invented robots to do that, just yet
Oh, and security staff will always be required to handle the drunks / anti-social / shoplifters
How many times did you win your case then? did they plead guilty and if not what was their defence......?
I don't "banter" with friends and family, let alone perfect strangers sat behind a checkout. I will say "hello" "please" and "thank you" etc at the right moments but I'm there to buy food, not catch up with a friend.
The last time I used the self-scan at the larger ASDA store was to buy 2 wine glasses. Upon scanning them, the monitor to said to wait for staff assistance with packing (good god I'm not 3 years old). When she finally made it over and did the over-ride with her employee card, it still wouldn't accept the bar code, she spent about 3 minutes trying to figure out why it wasn't working. In hindsight it would have been quicker to go to a regular cashier but I'll know for next time.
I combat that by talking to the machine. It's actually more fulfilling than engaging in conversation with some of the morons that man the actual tills who insist in engaging in humorous 'banter'
I tried that, but all the machine saying to me was 'Have you swiped your Nectar card?', which angered me as being a powerful all-knowing computer, it knew that I hadn't.
Dear me I hope not. I know it's incredible but not everyone feels the need to carry around a mobile - any mobile - let alone a smartphone. My phone is basic. It doesn't make the coffee or do handstands - it just makes calls. It only gets aired if I absolutely can't miss an expected call or if the car is making funny noises