I am not a trained dancer and I know the difference
I am at a similar level dance wise to those people and no one would call me a trained dancer .
:D:D
You're probably a hell of a lot more observant than most - and able to be objective. As soon as you understand performance and the difference between good and amazing, you have a 'trained eye' darling!
I have no problem with previous dance experience so long as it is not in ballroom and latin, sometimes training in some styles of dance can be a hinderance due to different techniques think the show needs to be upfront about and it and producers make sure that the celebs do not have too much previous training
Laughing at the comments re Take That - Mark and Howard have had dance training and think one of them may have taken part in the original come dancing in the off beat section though it could have been jason always get them mixed up
You're probably a hell of a lot more observant than most - and able to be objective. As soon as you understand performance and the difference between good and amazing, you have a 'trained eye' darling!
I also can't do double pirouettes and my front layout is embarrassingly bad
Some contestants are allowed dance training and others are not - Pixie, Natalie, DVO, Rachel Stevens no, Caroline yes. (I suspect because she wasn't too good plus is a bit of a heifer and more women identified with her).
Oh, miaow!
A bit of a heifer? Looked pretty healthy to me, did young Caroline. Proper curves - sexy, funny and gorgeous. Voice to die for. And I am straight!
Bet men will disagree with you about your childish 'heifer' dig
I have just looked at this forum for the first time this year, and I was disappointed to see the same small-minded nit-picking about previous training that we had in previous years about celebrities like Denise Van Outen. If you want to see people going on a "journey", go to your local railway station!
for reasons i never quite understand, its different where DVO is concerned. so many people who voted for naltalie last year and for caroline this year, seemed to hate DVO with a passion in her year. something to do with the way she apparently underplayed her experience, although i don't recall either natalie or caroline shouting about theirs.
Caroline is defending herself along the same lines with her tweets.
@goldihanw I went to stage school for 3 years when I was a teen.. So did the others ... Leave me alone @goldihanw I'm 35. That was 16 years ago... And I didn't do ballroom or Latin @goldihanw@ARyanKelly937 but none of us have had this kind of training before !?
@carolineflack1 but once again the media are reporting it as if you have hidden the fact!! @miss_mitsy yep that's what annoys me
I started dancing in my house in my teens, and I'm well into my thirties now. I'd quite like to enter a dancing competition, but I'm not sure if I'd be allowed.
A bit of a heifer? Looked pretty healthy to me, did young Caroline. Proper curves - sexy, funny and gorgeous. Voice to die for. And I am straight!
Bet men will disagree with you about your childish 'heifer' dig
Are your legs that fabulous? I wonder.
Snort ^_^
Indeed. I understand having different opinions on dances and the celebrities themselves - how boring would it be otherwise?! But such unkind (not to mention inaccurate!) comments are totally unwarranted.
I have no problem with previous dance experience so long as it is not in ballroom and latin, sometimes training in some styles of dance can be a hinderance due to different techniques think the show needs to be upfront about and it and producers make sure that the celebs do not have too much previous training
Laughing at the comments re Take That - Mark and Howard have had dance training and think one of them may have taken part in the original come dancing in the off beat section though it could have been jason always get them mixed up
The ringer idea is a pretty futile argument. Schools teach dance, kids do ballet, kids do gymnastics. Adults do fitness training involving dance, some of the best SCD performers do yoga. Most people in the entertainment industry will have been to some sort of club since they were in primary school, whole secondary schools are devoted to specialising in the performing arts. To get into the drama schools most top actors come from, they will have a record of training and performance that started long before. All the top drama schools teach dance - some emphasis it. Their graduates will either have learnt ballroom, or be taught to pick up anything quickly. The day of the self taught amateur has almost gone, and even the unqualified may have learnt on the job. .
Picking people out from that background as ringers is just random. We don't know who has been taught what. Or if they could do it. Some singers prioritized dance before they became singers - some just do a few steps badly in their videos. SCD fans historically have been hopeless at distinguishing those with significant levels of training and those without. Tom Chambers won without any comment - despite being far more trained and experienced than Rachel - who was thought of as a ringer because she had been in S Club. And, in one recent year, a contender who claimed to be highly experienced in ballet, went completely unnoticed- as no one read her CV while they were claiming others were ringers. Caroline is very inexperienced by contrast - and isn't an actor, entertainer or singer by profession either.
Its a problem we are stuck with. The alternative is basically no one who is anything like as good competing - however much they may hype up the Lisa, Alison, Matt Dawson, Judy or Simon journey stories. You logically have to mark what you get, and if you feel like it, make an additional allowance for any real journey stories if they get really close to the same levels of performance.
for reasons i never quite understand, its different where DVO is concerned. so many people who voted for naltalie last year and for caroline this year, seemed to hate DVO with a passion in her year. something to do with the way she apparently underplayed her experience, although i don't recall either natalie or caroline shouting about theirs.
Natalie was completely up front about her experience on the launch show. She went into some detail about it. Caroline didn't actually say anything about hers as I recall but she didn't say "I just sat on a chair" either ;-). A daft quote said on the spur of the moment and something used to beat DVO with forever after. Not that she'd have ever stopped the Louis juggernaut anyway.
Caroline is defending herself along the same lines with her tweets.
@goldihanw I went to stage school for 3 years when I was a teen.. So did the others ... Leave me alone @goldihanw I'm 35. That was 16 years ago... And I didn't do ballroom or Latin @goldihanw@ARyanKelly937 but none of us have had this kind of training before !?
@carolineflack1 but once again the media are reporting it as if you have hidden the fact!! @miss_mitsy yep that's what annoys me
Caroline seems to be missing the key point that others this year were criticised for their prior training / experience, and it looked like it even cost them votes, while Caroline's was sufficiently downplayed that she largely escaped and was even described in "journey" terms as if she hadn't already been a good dancer at the start of the show.
As the Mail article says:
While other contestants such as Pixie Lott, Simon Webbe and Frankie Bridge have come under fire for having gone to stage school for years or danced in bands, thereby seemingly gaining an advantage in the competition, Caroline’s managed to keep her previous experience mostly under the radar, ...
Also, "three years studying dance at Bodywork Dance Company" is rather more focused on dance then merely going to a stage school.
for reasons i never quite understand, its different where DVO is concerned. so many people who voted for naltalie last year and for caroline this year, seemed to hate DVO with a passion in her year. something to do with the way she apparently underplayed her experience, although i don't recall either natalie or caroline shouting about theirs.
I think Denise fell foul of a couple of things. The first was done years before when she was making her way from being a ladette <pause to shudder at term> presenter to a musical theatre performer and involved the performer staple of bigging up her CV. She had to justify? her casting in staring roles and so interviews were done in which she explained in great detail about her dance credentials to explain there was talent behind it. Of course, she never thought that fast forward a decade or so and she would be trying to downplay the very credentials she was bigging up and that the interviews would be available on line for ease of proving ringerdom.
The second was she/SCD/whoever didn't realise this and ran head first into 'just sat on a chair' saga, the storylines every week seemed to involve some sort of will it/won't it come off on Saturday night drama - and amazingly it always did - and James getting progressively more and more defensive, which was never a help.
Caroline seems to be missing the key point that others this year were criticised for their prior training / experience, and it looked like it even cost them votes, while Caroline's was sufficiently downplayed that she largely escaped and was even described in "journey" terms as if she hadn't already been a good dancer at the start of the show.
As the Mail article says:
Also, "three years studying dance at Bodywork Dance Company" is rather more focused on dance then merely going to a stage school.
Because she is a presenter and so doesn't dance for a living. Whereas the other two have done some dance (I know it is not ballroom or latin) in their music videos and performances.
If that were true, the criticism of Frankie and Pixie would have focused on what they do when performing as singers. It didn't.
This tedious ringer - she was a trained dancer whine/moan/snark - will happen every year. It's so boring.
It usually comes from those who have never done any dance training themselves, read the Daily Mail (big mistake, HUGE mistake) and want to find a reason, any reason, the slag off a winner. They have no idea what real dance training even is.
Going to a stage school teaches you a lot about performance The dance element depends on the school. They differ - and it depends how long you were there and whether you have any natural dance talent at all. Mark had dance training at stage school. He forgot to mention it. Oops. Truth is, it didn't help him much.
Pixie studied ballet. Yes, that helps. A lot - and it showed.
Frankie's parents teach ballroom. She has a great topline, but nobody helped her with her legs and her feet. Her Latin was shit as a result.
Caroline is bound to get the bitches out in force. Smart, sexy, funny and warm. She can dance, she has personality and she's not a sweet little Doormat. The Mail hate her. Oh what a surprise.
This tedious ringer - she was a trained dancer whine - will happen every year. It's so boring.
It usually comes from those who have never done any dance training themselves, read the Daily Mail (big mistake, HUGE mistake) and want to find a reason, any reason, the slag off a winner. They have no idea what real dance training even is.
Going to a stage school teaches you a lot about performance The dance element depends on the school. They differ - and it depends how long you were there and whether you have any natural dance talent at all. Mark had dance training at stage school. He forgot to mention it. Oops. Truth is, it didn't help him much.
Pixie studied ballet. Yes, that helps. A lot - and it showed.
Frankie's parents teach ballroom. She has a great topline, but nobody helped her with her legs and her feet. Her Latin was shit as a result.
Caroline is bound to get the bitches out in force. Smart, sexy, funny and warm. She can dance, she has personality and she's not a sweet little Doormat. The Mail hate her. Oh what a surprise.
How very dare she!
and how very nice of you to call those who call her a ringer, 'bitches'.
This tedious ringer - she was a trained dancer whine/moan/snark - will happen every year. It's so boring.
It usually comes from those who have never done any dance training themselves, read the Daily Mail (big mistake, HUGE mistake) and want to find a reason, any reason, the slag off a winner. They have no idea what real dance training even is.
Going to a stage school teaches you a lot about performance The dance element depends on the school. They differ - and it depends how long you were there and whether you have any natural dance talent at all. Mark had dance training at stage school. He forgot to mention it. Oops. Truth is, it didn't help him much.
Pixie studied ballet. Yes, that helps. A lot - and it showed.
Frankie's parents teach ballroom. She has a great topline, but nobody helped her with her legs and her feet. Her Latin was shit as a result.
Caroline is bound to get the bitches out in force. Smart, sexy, funny and warm. She can dance, she has personality and she's not a sweet little Doormat. The Mail hate her. Oh what a surprise.
How very dare she!
A young person of my acquaintance went to Stagecoach for a good 10 years or more. They can now just about manage to exit stage left without tripping over their feet and can give a show tune the requisite eyes, teeth and hands.
A young person of my acquaintance went to Stagecoach for a good 10 years or more. They can now just about manage to exit stage left without tripping over their feet and can give a show tune the requisite eyes, teeth and hands.
It is true apparently, it seems Caroline has tweeted about it.;-)
It has never been a secret thst she went to theatre school or had been in Dancing on Wheels. I think the issues are what the theatre school involved and how good she was.
I imagine the truth lies somewhere between the overplayed star pupil in the Daily Mail and the prosaic mention on the BBC site.
Comments
You're probably a hell of a lot more observant than most - and able to be objective. As soon as you understand performance and the difference between good and amazing, you have a 'trained eye' darling!
Laughing at the comments re Take That - Mark and Howard have had dance training and think one of them may have taken part in the original come dancing in the off beat section though it could have been jason always get them mixed up
I also can't do double pirouettes and my front layout is embarrassingly bad
Oh, miaow!
A bit of a heifer? Looked pretty healthy to me, did young Caroline. Proper curves - sexy, funny and gorgeous. Voice to die for. And I am straight!
Bet men will disagree with you about your childish 'heifer' dig
Are your legs that fabulous? I wonder.
Snort ^_^
for reasons i never quite understand, its different where DVO is concerned. so many people who voted for naltalie last year and for caroline this year, seemed to hate DVO with a passion in her year. something to do with the way she apparently underplayed her experience, although i don't recall either natalie or caroline shouting about theirs.
lol, the worm turns.
Oh babes!
Who needs a friggin' pirouette? Never much use to me and I did them for years! Making an entrance and a killer exit is far more useful.
Very useful in business ;-) No one EVER forgets you
No chance. Flackers' legs are stunning. Not the reason I repeatedly watch her dances on I-Player, incidentally
Indeed. I understand having different opinions on dances and the celebrities themselves - how boring would it be otherwise?! But such unkind (not to mention inaccurate!) comments are totally unwarranted.
The ringer idea is a pretty futile argument. Schools teach dance, kids do ballet, kids do gymnastics. Adults do fitness training involving dance, some of the best SCD performers do yoga. Most people in the entertainment industry will have been to some sort of club since they were in primary school, whole secondary schools are devoted to specialising in the performing arts. To get into the drama schools most top actors come from, they will have a record of training and performance that started long before. All the top drama schools teach dance - some emphasis it. Their graduates will either have learnt ballroom, or be taught to pick up anything quickly. The day of the self taught amateur has almost gone, and even the unqualified may have learnt on the job. .
Picking people out from that background as ringers is just random. We don't know who has been taught what. Or if they could do it. Some singers prioritized dance before they became singers - some just do a few steps badly in their videos. SCD fans historically have been hopeless at distinguishing those with significant levels of training and those without. Tom Chambers won without any comment - despite being far more trained and experienced than Rachel - who was thought of as a ringer because she had been in S Club. And, in one recent year, a contender who claimed to be highly experienced in ballet, went completely unnoticed- as no one read her CV while they were claiming others were ringers. Caroline is very inexperienced by contrast - and isn't an actor, entertainer or singer by profession either.
Its a problem we are stuck with. The alternative is basically no one who is anything like as good competing - however much they may hype up the Lisa, Alison, Matt Dawson, Judy or Simon journey stories. You logically have to mark what you get, and if you feel like it, make an additional allowance for any real journey stories if they get really close to the same levels of performance.
Natalie was completely up front about her experience on the launch show. She went into some detail about it. Caroline didn't actually say anything about hers as I recall but she didn't say "I just sat on a chair" either ;-). A daft quote said on the spur of the moment and something used to beat DVO with forever after. Not that she'd have ever stopped the Louis juggernaut anyway.
Caroline seems to be missing the key point that others this year were criticised for their prior training / experience, and it looked like it even cost them votes, while Caroline's was sufficiently downplayed that she largely escaped and was even described in "journey" terms as if she hadn't already been a good dancer at the start of the show.
As the Mail article says:
Also, "three years studying dance at Bodywork Dance Company" is rather more focused on dance then merely going to a stage school.
I think Denise fell foul of a couple of things. The first was done years before when she was making her way from being a ladette <pause to shudder at term> presenter to a musical theatre performer and involved the performer staple of bigging up her CV. She had to justify? her casting in staring roles and so interviews were done in which she explained in great detail about her dance credentials to explain there was talent behind it. Of course, she never thought that fast forward a decade or so and she would be trying to downplay the very credentials she was bigging up and that the interviews would be available on line for ease of proving ringerdom.
The second was she/SCD/whoever didn't realise this and ran head first into 'just sat on a chair' saga, the storylines every week seemed to involve some sort of will it/won't it come off on Saturday night drama - and amazingly it always did - and James getting progressively more and more defensive, which was never a help.
Well explained.
If that were true, the criticism of Frankie and Pixie would have focused on what they do when performing as singers. It didn't.
It usually comes from those who have never done any dance training themselves, read the Daily Mail (big mistake, HUGE mistake) and want to find a reason, any reason, the slag off a winner. They have no idea what real dance training even is.
Going to a stage school teaches you a lot about performance The dance element depends on the school. They differ - and it depends how long you were there and whether you have any natural dance talent at all. Mark had dance training at stage school. He forgot to mention it. Oops. Truth is, it didn't help him much.
Pixie studied ballet. Yes, that helps. A lot - and it showed.
Frankie's parents teach ballroom. She has a great topline, but nobody helped her with her legs and her feet. Her Latin was shit as a result.
Caroline is bound to get the bitches out in force. Smart, sexy, funny and warm. She can dance, she has personality and she's not a sweet little Doormat. The Mail hate her. Oh what a surprise.
How very dare she!
I don't think so. The poster is quoting the Daily Mail - the clueless gossip newspaper for those with a grudge and a jealous streak.
and how very nice of you to call those who call her a ringer, 'bitches'.
It is true apparently, it seems Caroline has tweeted about it.;-)
So what is your point?. I was pointing to other things the poster was saying.
A young person of my acquaintance went to Stagecoach for a good 10 years or more. They can now just about manage to exit stage left without tripping over their feet and can give a show tune the requisite eyes, teeth and hands.
It has never been a secret thst she went to theatre school or had been in Dancing on Wheels. I think the issues are what the theatre school involved and how good she was.
I imagine the truth lies somewhere between the overplayed star pupil in the Daily Mail and the prosaic mention on the BBC site.