The re-edits are poor. It surprises me that some of these re-edits have actually been cleared by the BBC for use, they have been edited that poorly, IMO. A couple are actually laughably poor, namely 'Kites' and 'Bikes'. Look at the pre form-up sequences of these two idents next time they are shown. They are ridiculously brief. They could have easily been edited to include a couple of seconds or so more of the original footage, and so making the idents' 'stories' make more sense, while at the same time still have the 'BBC One' logo appear for an ample amount of time on-screen for each playout. I have also made this point on other threads that the re-edited long version of 'Capes' has the inclusion of the lone man watching the bikers from his balcony (before the form-up), but with the 'BBC One' logo now completely obscuring his face in this edited version!
The re edits also ment they had to drop "Moon". It was one off my favourites.
As you say the edits are laughable in some and they have destroyed the story of the idents.
I agree with everything you say, F1ken, except that, unlike you, I prefer the BBC 'swirl' in the original white, rather than red, but it's just personal preference.
The re-edits are poor. It surprises me that some of these re-edits have actually been cleared by the BBC for use, they have been edited that poorly, IMO. A couple are actually laughably poor, namely 'Kites' and 'Bikes'. Look at the pre form-up sequences of these two idents next time they are shown. They are ridiculously brief. They could have easily been edited to include a couple of seconds or so more of the original footage, and so making the idents' 'stories' make more sense, while at the same time still have the 'BBC One' logo appear for an ample amount of time on-screen for each playout. I have also made this point on other threads that the re-edited long version of 'Capes' has the inclusion of the lone man watching the bikers from his balcony (before the form-up), but with the 'BBC One' logo now completely obscuring his face in this edited version!
I have, believe it or not, seen some attempts at better short versions of some of the 'Circle' idents, with the 'BBC One' logo appearing early (which was the reason for them being tampered with), made and put together by 'amateurs' on youtube, which I actually prefer, and think work better than the re-edited ones the BBC use on-screen !!!
I think the 'Circles' ident concept is supposed to be a 'nod' to the BBC Globe ident days.
I think the long idents are better but I guess the BBC have discontinued ident stories so I think in future idents will no longer have stories which is a shame.
I think the long idents are better but I guess the BBC have discontinued ident stories so I think in future idents will no longer have stories which is a shame.
Yes I think there is a greater focus on the branding off the channel.
The re edits also ment they had to drop "Moon". It was one off my favourites.
As you say the edits are laughable in some and they have destroyed the story of the idents.
Ken
I heard that the reason 'Moon' and 'Windows' were dropped was because they both use footage containing moderate close-ups of people's faces (I don't really see why that caused a problem). Also, I know 'Moon' was a controversial ident, as it was filmed in the Kamenjak peninsula of North Croatia ('The Mail' went ballistic!).
Are you saying you heard 'Moon' was dropped because they could not re-edit the pre form-up in a satisfactory way?
The re edits also ment they had to drop "Moon". It was one off my favourites.
As you say the edits are laughable in some and they have destroyed the story of the idents.
Ken
And the music was better in the longer edits. The long version of "Kites" had this really nice orchestral theme, which was dropped in favour of some silly new music. Maybe the fact that they've shortened it means they're probably due for replacement pretty soon. I've seen this in the past, even with TV shows - they usually shorten a theme tune from its original length and then get rid of it not long after.
And the music was better in the longer edits. The long version of "Kites" had this really nice orchestral theme, which was dropped in favour of some silly new music.
Agreed.
Also, the long version of 'Helicopter' had a haunting soundtrack, perfect for sombre programming and serious news events, etc. Now that they have withdrawn this version and now only use the re-edited version with (like you've said with 'Kites') silly new music, there is currently no BBC1 ident in use which has the necessary gravitas for such programming.
It is interesting to note, however, that BBC1 Northern Ireland now use re-edited versions of 'Helicopter' and 'Penguins', which use much more of the original versions' pre form-up footage, along with the delayed appearance of the 'BBC One' logo, compared with the BBC1 Network re-edited versions:
I do understand what you mean. My opinion is that, regarding the BBC1 'Circle' idents, yes they have been on-screen for a long while now, but I think they are the best BBC1 idents to date
Nothing has ever beaten the original globe, with the hot air balloons coming in a close second.
I think the long idents are better but I guess the BBC have discontinued ident stories so I think in future idents will no longer have stories which is a shame.
Stories?? Just put up a static caption: "This is BBC1. Now it's time for (programme)". Don't really need all that arty farty crap.
Nothing has ever beaten the original globe, with the hot air balloons coming in a close second.
The balloon would be mega in HD. It would be fitting to have an Olympic Balloon flying over the Olympic Stadium as the torch is being lit, as an Olympic ident. Plus, the balloon and the globe had that sense of authority and identity that I feel is somewhat lacking in the circles. The balloon and the globe was quintessentially BBC1 - it screamed "we are BBC1, we are the channel of the UK." The circles are so generic that any channel could have that ident package - it's not distinctive enough for BBC1. And the same with BBC2 - it has lost its identity with the idents. The 2001-2007 idents, whilst not the best, had a clear quirkiness and clear identity, and it was nice to see those idents - a pretty good replacement for the '91 idents set I think.
I heard that the reason 'Moon' and 'Windows' were dropped was because they both use footage containing moderate close-ups of people's faces (I don't really see why that caused a problem).
Blimey, did they finally listen to me?
I've long said that close-ups on faces make an ident date really quickly. Every time they appear it just makes you think, "Oh, bloody hell, not them again." and want to scream.
I've long said that close-ups on faces make an ident date really quickly. Every time they appear it just makes you think, "Oh, bloody hell, not them again." and want to scream.
Bad news is it looks like the "2" is on it's way out.
I think it is a big mistake if they are indeed going to retire the 2 because it is a symbol that we all know and love. Now it looks like they are in the early stages but the Martin Lambie-Nairn "2" looks to be on the way out. Its like BBC One getting rid of the globe.
Bad decision if true in my opinion. I know things need to change but getting rid off the best bit off BBC Two if a mistake.
Ken
I believe BBC1 will get a rebrand at the same time as BBC2 as that will be when BBCHD ends. It makes sence to refresh both main channels at the same time. Autumn 2012 or February 2013 I'd say.........................
Stories?? Just put up a static caption: "This is BBC1. Now it's time for (programme)". Don't really need all that arty farty crap.
Television idents have become increasingly sophisticated for good reason, not least in an attempt to convey the individuality of the channel, which is now more important than ever, with the multiple channels we now have.
These idents now cost a fortune to make, what with the often multiple idents within a package, their invariably sophisticated designs, and their soundtracks that need to be commissioned. If they thought that a very basic design would suffice in this multi-channel world we now live in, they would, and the money saved could go into better quality programming instead.
I can think of one way to save the figure 2. Use it instead of the word TWO in the channel name. You could have idents showing two of an object, with the BBC2 just fading up in a corner. Not the focus, but still there.
I think the BBC have always had great idents across all channels, maybe apart from the idents featuring dancers that we had before the current circle ones and after the balloon ones.
I remember the negative reaction the balloon idents first received when they first began, but they soon became some of the most loved and memorable of all idents.
As much as I liked the globe series of idents from the 60s to the 90s, I don't think we could ever really go back to having 'globe' idents for the BBC - for some reason, it seems to hark back to the era of the British Empire, and I don't think would really suit a modern BBC.
Television idents have become increasingly sophisticated for good reason, not least in an attempt to convey the individuality of the channel, which is now more important than ever, with the multiple channels we now have.
It's not important at all. Anyone who is involved in marketing really just needs a sledgehammer to the head because they're all complete and utter morons who use terms like "think outside the box" and have the worst ideas out of everyone.
As the saying goes: "KISS: Keep it simple, stupid."
It's not important at all. Anyone who is involved in marketing really just needs a sledgehammer to the head because they're all complete and utter morons who use terms like "think outside the box" and have the worst ideas out of everyone.
As the saying goes: "KISS: Keep it simple, stupid."
I'd be interested to know if anyone else agrees with you on that one.
I'd be interested to know if anyone else agrees with you on that one.
A lot of great idents over the year have had simple concepts. Think Channel 4 for simplicity. Their circles idents from 96-99 were excellent, fresh and organic, and their stripes idents from 99-04 were quirky, simple and sophisticated, reflecting the identity of an alternative and edgy channel. BBC1 - the globe - simple enough. The LWT ident (96-99) - three letters, coloured red, blue and silver, coming together with the black background, and great music. It was simple.
A lot of great idents over the year have had simple concepts. Think Channel 4 for simplicity. Their circles idents from 96-99 were excellent, fresh and organic, and their stripes idents from 99-04 were quirky, simple and sophisticated, reflecting the identity of an alternative and edgy channel. BBC1 - the globe - simple enough. The LWT ident (96-99) - three letters, coloured red, blue and silver, coming together with the black background, and great music. It was simple.
Yes, but you are referring to ident packages anywhere from 8-16 years ago. Channel 4 now use a multitude of very sophisticated idents, which cost a bomb to make. The BBC1 Globe ident, again, was years ago now.
I am saying that they are becoming increasingly sophosticated as time goes on. ITV1 now also use multiple sophisticated idents. I don't like them much, but that's besides the point. They are more sophisticated than LWT's design of 16 years ago, to which you refer.
Yes, but you are referring to ident packages anywhere from 8-16 years ago. I am saying that they are becoming increasingly sophosticated as time goes on. The BBC1 Globe ident, again, was years ago now.
You're right. They do become more sophisticated as time goes on - one from the modern era I do like is the current Channel 4 ident - using the original C4 symbol in various situations, which I thought was clever. It does depend - sophistication sometimes means better, more abstract and thoughtful idents, which I'm definitely in favour of. But sometimes, more abstract idents mean less bold symbols, meaning slightly more generic ident packages.
A lot of great idents over the year have had simple concepts. Think Channel 4 for simplicity. Their circles idents from 96-99 were excellent, fresh and organic, and their stripes idents from 99-04 were quirky, simple and sophisticated, reflecting the identity of an alternative and edgy channel. BBC1 - the globe - simple enough. The LWT ident (96-99) - three letters, coloured red, blue and silver, coming together with the black background, and great music. It was simple.
The current C4 ones are very good, but once you've seen them a couple of times, that's enough, really. If they replaced them with a static '4' and a brief announcement about what was about to start, it would't bother me.
The current C4 ones are very good, but once you've seen them a couple of times, that's enough, really. If they replaced them with a static '4' and a brief announcement about what was about to start, it would't bother me.
Of course, this trend for increasingly sophisticated identity is happening in the film industry also. Look at all the big movie companies, such as 'Universal' and the like. Their identity sequences are also becoming more elaborate and sophisticated, as time goes on.
George Lucas even went back and replaced his plain "Lucasfilm" caption, in the opening credits of the original Star Wars, with a more sophisticated, eye-catching design.
The balloon would be mega in HD. It would be fitting to have an Olympic Balloon flying over the Olympic Stadium as the torch is being lit, as an Olympic ident. Plus, the balloon and the globe had that sense of authority and identity that I feel is somewhat lacking in the circles. The balloon and the globe was quintessentially BBC1 - it screamed "we are BBC1, we are the channel of the UK." The circles are so generic that any channel could have that ident package - it's not distinctive enough for BBC1. And the same with BBC2 - it has lost its identity with the idents. The 2001-2007 idents, whilst not the best, had a clear quirkiness and clear identity, and it was nice to see those idents - a pretty good replacement for the '91 idents set I think.
The balloon in HD would be almost as wonderful as seeing Concord return to our sky's. As you say they and the globe had a strong identity.
In my opinion this Screams BBC One. Bring back the balloon and bring back close down's. They could play the national anthem before going to BBC News.
Comments
The re edits also ment they had to drop "Moon". It was one off my favourites.
As you say the edits are laughable in some and they have destroyed the story of the idents.
Ken
I think the long idents are better but I guess the BBC have discontinued ident stories so I think in future idents will no longer have stories which is a shame.
Yes I think there is a greater focus on the branding off the channel.
Ken
I heard that the reason 'Moon' and 'Windows' were dropped was because they both use footage containing moderate close-ups of people's faces (I don't really see why that caused a problem). Also, I know 'Moon' was a controversial ident, as it was filmed in the Kamenjak peninsula of North Croatia ('The Mail' went ballistic!).
Are you saying you heard 'Moon' was dropped because they could not re-edit the pre form-up in a satisfactory way?
And the music was better in the longer edits. The long version of "Kites" had this really nice orchestral theme, which was dropped in favour of some silly new music. Maybe the fact that they've shortened it means they're probably due for replacement pretty soon. I've seen this in the past, even with TV shows - they usually shorten a theme tune from its original length and then get rid of it not long after.
Agreed.
Also, the long version of 'Helicopter' had a haunting soundtrack, perfect for sombre programming and serious news events, etc. Now that they have withdrawn this version and now only use the re-edited version with (like you've said with 'Kites') silly new music, there is currently no BBC1 ident in use which has the necessary gravitas for such programming.
It is interesting to note, however, that BBC1 Northern Ireland now use re-edited versions of 'Helicopter' and 'Penguins', which use much more of the original versions' pre form-up footage, along with the delayed appearance of the 'BBC One' logo, compared with the BBC1 Network re-edited versions:
re-edited 'Helicopter' NI Version: http://www.theidentgallery.com/player.php?id=BBC1NI-2009-ID-HELICOPTER-1
re-edited 'Penguins' NI Version: http://www.theidentgallery.com/player.php?id=BBC1NI-2009-ID-PENGUINS-1
I only quite like the 'Shark' ident. Other than that, I don't like them, myself.
All the 'red' and shoving garish red in our faces at the end of trailers has been going on for at least 12 years. I hate it. It's generic and bland.
Nothing has ever beaten the original globe, with the hot air balloons coming in a close second.
Stories?? Just put up a static caption: "This is BBC1. Now it's time for (programme)". Don't really need all that arty farty crap.
The balloon would be mega in HD. It would be fitting to have an Olympic Balloon flying over the Olympic Stadium as the torch is being lit, as an Olympic ident. Plus, the balloon and the globe had that sense of authority and identity that I feel is somewhat lacking in the circles. The balloon and the globe was quintessentially BBC1 - it screamed "we are BBC1, we are the channel of the UK." The circles are so generic that any channel could have that ident package - it's not distinctive enough for BBC1. And the same with BBC2 - it has lost its identity with the idents. The 2001-2007 idents, whilst not the best, had a clear quirkiness and clear identity, and it was nice to see those idents - a pretty good replacement for the '91 idents set I think.
Blimey, did they finally listen to me?
I've long said that close-ups on faces make an ident date really quickly. Every time they appear it just makes you think, "Oh, bloody hell, not them again." and want to scream.
I've noticed that quite a lot.
I believe BBC1 will get a rebrand at the same time as BBC2 as that will be when BBCHD ends. It makes sence to refresh both main channels at the same time. Autumn 2012 or February 2013 I'd say.........................
Television idents have become increasingly sophisticated for good reason, not least in an attempt to convey the individuality of the channel, which is now more important than ever, with the multiple channels we now have.
These idents now cost a fortune to make, what with the often multiple idents within a package, their invariably sophisticated designs, and their soundtracks that need to be commissioned. If they thought that a very basic design would suffice in this multi-channel world we now live in, they would, and the money saved could go into better quality programming instead.
I remember the negative reaction the balloon idents first received when they first began, but they soon became some of the most loved and memorable of all idents.
As much as I liked the globe series of idents from the 60s to the 90s, I don't think we could ever really go back to having 'globe' idents for the BBC - for some reason, it seems to hark back to the era of the British Empire, and I don't think would really suit a modern BBC.
Thanks. Glad it's not just me.
It's not important at all. Anyone who is involved in marketing really just needs a sledgehammer to the head because they're all complete and utter morons who use terms like "think outside the box" and have the worst ideas out of everyone.
As the saying goes: "KISS: Keep it simple, stupid."
I'd be interested to know if anyone else agrees with you on that one.
A lot of great idents over the year have had simple concepts. Think Channel 4 for simplicity. Their circles idents from 96-99 were excellent, fresh and organic, and their stripes idents from 99-04 were quirky, simple and sophisticated, reflecting the identity of an alternative and edgy channel. BBC1 - the globe - simple enough. The LWT ident (96-99) - three letters, coloured red, blue and silver, coming together with the black background, and great music. It was simple.
Yes, but you are referring to ident packages anywhere from 8-16 years ago. Channel 4 now use a multitude of very sophisticated idents, which cost a bomb to make. The BBC1 Globe ident, again, was years ago now.
I am saying that they are becoming increasingly sophosticated as time goes on. ITV1 now also use multiple sophisticated idents. I don't like them much, but that's besides the point. They are more sophisticated than LWT's design of 16 years ago, to which you refer.
You're right. They do become more sophisticated as time goes on - one from the modern era I do like is the current Channel 4 ident - using the original C4 symbol in various situations, which I thought was clever. It does depend - sophistication sometimes means better, more abstract and thoughtful idents, which I'm definitely in favour of. But sometimes, more abstract idents mean less bold symbols, meaning slightly more generic ident packages.
The current C4 ones are very good, but once you've seen them a couple of times, that's enough, really. If they replaced them with a static '4' and a brief announcement about what was about to start, it would't bother me.
Of course, this trend for increasingly sophisticated identity is happening in the film industry also. Look at all the big movie companies, such as 'Universal' and the like. Their identity sequences are also becoming more elaborate and sophisticated, as time goes on.
George Lucas even went back and replaced his plain "Lucasfilm" caption, in the opening credits of the original Star Wars, with a more sophisticated, eye-catching design.
The balloon in HD would be almost as wonderful as seeing Concord return to our sky's. As you say they and the globe had a strong identity.
In my opinion this Screams BBC One. Bring back the balloon and bring back close down's. They could play the national anthem before going to BBC News.
Ken