The only one I can maybe help you with is the graveyard. Danny took Clara there to escape St Paul's and then kept his distance for a bit for thinking/trying to cope or whatever. The Doctor homed in on her location after she begged him to. Kate and the Brig just 'happy coincidences' for the resolution. So the last two are the only slight problems for me, but am glad they happened rather than didn't
Yeah, it was a bit too much 'happy coincidence' for me. I mean how The Doctor tracked Clara made sense, and Missy showing up did too.
But why would Danny take Clara to a graveyard anyway? What are the chances that that one graveyard would also be the exact same one where Kate would fall to? What were the chances the CyberBrig would be emotionally coherent enough and knowledgable enough to find Kate at the exact moment she needed saving? Out of those six characters, only two of them weren't there by coincidence.
It feels weird for me to be posting in a thread like this, other than to give answers to things. Usually I'll accept the odd plot hole on the basis of 'no episode is perfect' but all of those conveniences, on top of the nonsensical reason for Missy 'choosing' Clara, on top of the fact that the boy had no body to go back to as well as a bunch of other things and it was all a bit disheartening. I think it's because these are series-spanning questions, and so their poor resolution means that the whole series is tainted at least a little by the lack of a logical or satisfying conclusion.
The Bracelet he was wearing when his mind transferred back to the Nethersphere.
The Bracelet itself would have to be converted from Matter to Data upon entering the Nethersphere.
So while his body was destroyed as he was wearing the bracelet a data copy of the bracelet would have travelled back to the Nethersphere with him.
yeah I can understand that he had a control bracelet (even a cyber one ) in the cyber world , but how does this create a human body in the real world ?
tbh - I don't really understand the term 'timelord-tech' , I mean it would seem to cover a lot of things .
yeah I can understand that he had a control bracelet (even a cyber one ) in the cyber world , but how does this create a human body in the real world ?
tbh - I don't really understand the term 'timelord-tech' , I mean it would seem to cover a lot of things .
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The Bracelet would have converted energy into matter to create the body of the boy.
How does teleportation works in Science fiction?
Captain Kirk is disintergrated on the Enterprise
His matter is converted into Energy (along with the Data needed to convert it back)
The Energy is beamed to the destination.
The Energy is converted back into Matter.
In the case of the Boy the Energy used to create his body would have likely been taken from the environment as heat so the temperature in Clara's flat probably fell by a little bit.
Many questions. Don't wanna create a separate thread for each and they'll get swallowed in the episode threads. So here we go: a q & a thread for the hopelessly confused. If anyone can help me with these I'd be grateful.
3) if cyber Danny incinerated himself in a cloud and presumably dead boy was turned into cyber dead boy and also in turn burned to a crisp, BUT the afterlife was just an illusion, then where the hell were they when Danny sent dead boy back to the earth? Real actual heaven or something?
Please help my brain. Not sure if these are just unexplained or if I missed explanations...
3) The Nethersphere is Time lord techno, which is where the boy and Danny where, Its like a full transport, remember this may also be where timelords memories/spirits go.
When he died his spirit/memory whent there, His body still in NS. The boy did not become a Cyber, he was still in NS, so he came through
Oh Answers to some others - There was a flaw in the plan, when the dead rose as cybermen, they where activated with motions, so thats why they where woundering, they not activated like the others. It was thr bracelet that commanded thewm
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2. Time Lord Tech that can convert Matter into Data and Vice Versa. The body would have been created from the image the boy had of it in his mind.
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Eh? So why is River still stuck in the library as data?
Eh? So why is River still stuck in the library as data?
The Library is not time lord tech and to get out the data slice Missy/Afghan Boy needed the bracelet, unless there is something in there like that with River then she is gone (for good?). Maybe ;-)
Many questions. Don't wanna create a separate thread for each and they'll get swallowed in the episode threads. So here we go: a q & a thread for the hopelessly confused. If anyone can help me with these I'd be grateful.
1) why did missy set up the doctor and Clara.? She said it was to get him to hell at Clara's request (presumably she killed Danny to do this) but if she just wanted to give him the cyberman army then why did she need to do the whole cat and mouse thing? Presumably if the cyberman invasion had happened anyway Clara wld have just called the doctor and said hey doc there are cybermen everywhere come help and he would have found missy anyway??
2)oh yeah WHY DOES THE MASTER WANT TO SUDDENLY GIVE THE DOCTOR CONTROL OF THE UNIVERSE WTactualF??? I not understand.
3) if cyber Danny incinerated himself in a cloud and presumably dead boy was turned into cyber dead boy and also in turn burned to a crisp, BUT the afterlife was just an illusion, then where the hell were they when Danny sent dead boy back to the earth? Real actual heaven or something?
4) umm did the doctor just kill the master without a second thought?? Really?:o
Or did he press a teleporty thing instead? Were we ever told what that kill device thing of hers actually is?
Please help my brain. Not sure if these are just unexplained or if I missed explanations...
1) Ultimately to bring the Doctor to her, but the Master is crazy and smart - which is what makes him/her all the more crazy. As Missy says in DIH "The control freak and the man who can't be controlled", all season with Capaldi's Doctor it has been a very different relationship between the two, a lot of emotional ups and downs which seems to have pushed both to the edge. By bringing the two together the Master believes it makes the Doctor's moral authority weaker in the attempt to show him they are very similar.
2) It all comes together perfectly from the Master's point of view - he's seen his friends murdered (Kate and Osgood), he's locked in a battle the Doctor can't really win, Danny's final victory over him in showing Clara the Doctor is willing to sacrifice for a tactical advantage as the 'bloodstained general' - giving him control of the Cybermen Army was more symbolic than the actual exchange. It was as in previous finale's a reminder of all those who die in his name and all those sacrifices made to save him, UNIT making him President of Earth, and yet he claims he doesn't need an Army - when in the Master's mind he should. It looked to me as an intention to break the Doctor's soul and show that the Doctor and the Master are not so different.
3. The afterlife/Nethersphere was portrayed as an illusion, but we have to remember that the Doctor assumes Missy had a Tardis and could have been doing this ever since the Human Race had a concept of the afterlife - so whilst it was an illusion, that doesn't mean to say it hasn't always happened and it isn't real because most probably it is. The Nethersphere was switching off because the minds were being downloaded to the Cyber bodies - when they all died again as Cybermen the Nethersphere switched back on again (because minds were being uploaded) - and as said above the bracelet gave Missy the power to travel between the Neversphere and Earth freely - we have to remember that this is Time Lord technology probably designed for a different purpose than what the Master uses it for. When Danny died as the Cyberman he went back into the Neversphere but because his body was wearing the bracelet then his Neversphere counter part is as well, for some reason the power is draining and only has enough power for one trip between the worlds. Whilst the boy wears the bracelet he safely passes back through and his body will be created in the image he imagined himself to be.
4. The Doctor doesn't kill Missy, but he was prepared to, as in 1/2 above the Doctor is very much a broken man at this point and Capaldi's Doctor doesn't lack conviction and does seem a Doctor that would take a life if it was necessary. After the events of this episode I wouldn't have been surprised if he did actually kill her.
So, once Gallifrey is back, presumably the Doc can attempt a hack on the Library and it's Hello Sweetie o'clock again
Possibly, though the 11th Doctor did seem to think River's Data Ghost should just fade away over time.
You have to remember that none of these beings (River in the Library, Danny in the Nethersphere) are the original they are just Digital Copies.
I'm really not sure that the Doctor wants to put Library River back into a physical body. Afterall with access to all time and space he probably does have the means even if it's just transferring the digital River into a Robot version of her body.
Comments
If something kills them quick enough (such as disintergration) then they are dead, no time for Regeneration.
However it's more than likely that Missy teleported out just before the beam hit.
1. The Nethersphere was running out of Power, all the minds would then be gone.
2. Time Lord Tech that can convert Matter into Data and Vice Versa. The body would have been created from the image the boy had of it in his mind.
3. Real name Rupert Pink
That is likely how dead Time Lords such as Rassilon and The Master got new bodies and new regenerations.
Their minds were always saved in case ever needed and when did they just used that tech to give them a new body
I remember that the lights were going out just before Danny got turned into a cyberman but then it was 2 weeks later that the boy was sent across .
where would Danny get Timelord tech , he was just a cyber-mind in a cyberworld wasn't he ?
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The Bracelet he was wearing when his mind transferred back to the Nethersphere.
The Bracelet itself would have to be converted from Matter to Data upon entering the Nethersphere.
So while his body was destroyed as he was wearing the bracelet a data copy of the bracelet would have travelled back to the Nethersphere with him.
Yeah, it was a bit too much 'happy coincidence' for me.
But why would Danny take Clara to a graveyard anyway? What are the chances that that one graveyard would also be the exact same one where Kate would fall to? What were the chances the CyberBrig would be emotionally coherent enough and knowledgable enough to find Kate at the exact moment she needed saving? Out of those six characters, only two of them weren't there by coincidence.
It feels weird for me to be posting in a thread like this, other than to give answers to things. Usually I'll accept the odd plot hole on the basis of 'no episode is perfect' but all of those conveniences, on top of the nonsensical reason for Missy 'choosing' Clara, on top of the fact that the boy had no body to go back to as well as a bunch of other things and it was all a bit disheartening. I think it's because these are series-spanning questions, and so their poor resolution means that the whole series is tainted at least a little by the lack of a logical or satisfying conclusion.
yeah I can understand that he had a control bracelet (even a cyber one ) in the cyber world , but how does this create a human body in the real world ?
tbh - I don't really understand the term 'timelord-tech' , I mean it would seem to cover a lot of things .
.
The Bracelet would have converted energy into matter to create the body of the boy.
How does teleportation works in Science fiction?
Captain Kirk is disintergrated on the Enterprise
His matter is converted into Energy (along with the Data needed to convert it back)
The Energy is beamed to the destination.
The Energy is converted back into Matter.
In the case of the Boy the Energy used to create his body would have likely been taken from the environment as heat so the temperature in Clara's flat probably fell by a little bit.
3) The Nethersphere is Time lord techno, which is where the boy and Danny where, Its like a full transport, remember this may also be where timelords memories/spirits go.
When he died his spirit/memory whent there, His body still in NS. The boy did not become a Cyber, he was still in NS, so he came through
Oh Answers to some others - There was a flaw in the plan, when the dead rose as cybermen, they where activated with motions, so thats why they where woundering, they not activated like the others. It was thr bracelet that commanded thewm
Eh? So why is River still stuck in the library as data?
The Library is not time lord tech and to get out the data slice Missy/Afghan Boy needed the bracelet, unless there is something in there like that with River then she is gone (for good?). Maybe ;-)
Because that wasn't Time Lord tech it was the same basic idea but a very different way of doing it
The Doctor (unlike the Master) hasn't had access to Gallifrey since River has been in the Library.
1) Ultimately to bring the Doctor to her, but the Master is crazy and smart - which is what makes him/her all the more crazy. As Missy says in DIH "The control freak and the man who can't be controlled", all season with Capaldi's Doctor it has been a very different relationship between the two, a lot of emotional ups and downs which seems to have pushed both to the edge. By bringing the two together the Master believes it makes the Doctor's moral authority weaker in the attempt to show him they are very similar.
2) It all comes together perfectly from the Master's point of view - he's seen his friends murdered (Kate and Osgood), he's locked in a battle the Doctor can't really win, Danny's final victory over him in showing Clara the Doctor is willing to sacrifice for a tactical advantage as the 'bloodstained general' - giving him control of the Cybermen Army was more symbolic than the actual exchange. It was as in previous finale's a reminder of all those who die in his name and all those sacrifices made to save him, UNIT making him President of Earth, and yet he claims he doesn't need an Army - when in the Master's mind he should. It looked to me as an intention to break the Doctor's soul and show that the Doctor and the Master are not so different.
3. The afterlife/Nethersphere was portrayed as an illusion, but we have to remember that the Doctor assumes Missy had a Tardis and could have been doing this ever since the Human Race had a concept of the afterlife - so whilst it was an illusion, that doesn't mean to say it hasn't always happened and it isn't real because most probably it is. The Nethersphere was switching off because the minds were being downloaded to the Cyber bodies - when they all died again as Cybermen the Nethersphere switched back on again (because minds were being uploaded) - and as said above the bracelet gave Missy the power to travel between the Neversphere and Earth freely - we have to remember that this is Time Lord technology probably designed for a different purpose than what the Master uses it for. When Danny died as the Cyberman he went back into the Neversphere but because his body was wearing the bracelet then his Neversphere counter part is as well, for some reason the power is draining and only has enough power for one trip between the worlds. Whilst the boy wears the bracelet he safely passes back through and his body will be created in the image he imagined himself to be.
4. The Doctor doesn't kill Missy, but he was prepared to, as in 1/2 above the Doctor is very much a broken man at this point and Capaldi's Doctor doesn't lack conviction and does seem a Doctor that would take a life if it was necessary. After the events of this episode I wouldn't have been surprised if he did actually kill her.
So, once Gallifrey is back, presumably the Doc can attempt a hack on the Library and it's Hello Sweetie o'clock again
Possibly, though the 11th Doctor did seem to think River's Data Ghost should just fade away over time.
You have to remember that none of these beings (River in the Library, Danny in the Nethersphere) are the original they are just Digital Copies.
I'm really not sure that the Doctor wants to put Library River back into a physical body. Afterall with access to all time and space he probably does have the means even if it's just transferring the digital River into a Robot version of her body.