Tbf I didn't want Moyes but thought there must have been something the board could see in him that I couldn't so it was a case of accepting the situation.
It turned out to be a monumental cock up and I can truthfully say I can't stand the bloke now.
Im almost 100% certain you were fully behind Moyes after he was appointed and when I was attacking him you defended him and blamed the board and the poor condition of the squad as well as the board for not spending money?
I've pointed out in the past Bats that you really don't need to get behind the manager. Jose doesn't even know you exist. He doesn't follow you on Twitter, he's not your friend on Facebook, he doesn't drink in the same pubs as you. He's oblivious to whether you like him or not.
If you didn't want him as our manager then just stick to that belief.
I agree with all of what you say there, however I am just kind of pre-conditioned to get behind a manager until does something, or there is reasonable reasons to not support them.
If he does something untoward, or not to our best requirements, then of course I will call him out for it, but currently he has been doing a good job, so there isn't much to have a go at him over.
Tbf I didn't want Moyes but thought there must have been something the board could see in him that I couldn't so it was a case of accepting the situation.
It turned out to be a monumental cock up and I can truthfully say I can't stand the bloke now.
Im almost 100% certain you were fully behind Moyes after he was appointed and when I was attacking him you defended him and blamed the board and the poor condition of the squad as well as the board for not spending money?
I was one of the last to call for his head because I believed there must have been something Fergie saw in him to be appointed in the first place. It was probably the game against Stoke away that broke it for me.
I maintain that the squad wasn't great despite the results Fergie got from it. We didn't spend a great deal of money during the last few years of his career at United unlike what we have done since he retired.
I never wanted Moyes and was gutted Jose went to Chelsea and I certainly wasn't one of his cheerleers. With hindsight he should have got the boot at Christmas.
I was also amongst the first who called for LVG to go in December. I got pulled up for suggesting he shouldn't see out his contract if we could get someone else. I actually liked Van Gaal but his football was shocking. Loved his press conferences and was sad to see him go in a way because he was so charismatic.
He has been doing well prior to this match, does that all.go out of the door/window because of one match??
Comparing him to Coutinho is a tad bit hasty, I know which player I would rather have, and it isn't the Brazilian.
You think yesterday was Pogba's first bad game for United? Oh dear.
For me he hasn't come close to justifying the fee or hype yet, although I'm aware we were buying potential rather than a finished product.
Right now I'd take Countinho in the team over Pogba without a doubt, but that's just based on performances this season. Countinho has been sensational; Pogba has veered between average and good, with the odd complete stinker. I'm just talking about form though. Surely you can't argue Pogba has been a better player than Philipe this season?!
You think yesterday was Pogba's first bad game for United? Oh dear.
For me he hasn't come close to justifying the fee or hype yet, although I'm aware we were buying potential rather than a finished product.
Right now I'd take Countinho in the team over Pogba without a doubt, but that's just based on performances this season. Countinho has been sensational; Pogba has veered between average and good, with the odd complete stinker. I'm just talking about form though. Surely you can't argue Pogba has been a better player than Philipe this season?!
Of course bats is going to argue that.:D I rarely get into a discussion about which is the best player or team or even make predictions because it just comes back to bite you in the backside. Not really sure how the opta stats work, I assume the ranking is cumulative. That said Pogba is ahead of Coutiho, but Coutinho has only played half the game time, with Pogaba no where near matching Coutinho's best performance and Coutino nowhere near matching Pogba's worst performance. Off course that is just stats and maybe not as reliable as Bats opinion. Sorry Bats couldn't resist, but I know you'll take it as a joke
Don't think Pogba's been as bad as detractors are saying, despite being crap yesterday. But that comes with the territory for the price tag. Anything short of brilliant is awful. Not that I'm suggesting he's been just short of brilliant.
You think yesterday was Pogba's first bad game for United? Oh dear.
For me he hasn't come close to justifying the fee or hype yet, although I'm aware we were buying potential rather than a finished product.
Right now I'd take Countinho in the team over Pogba without a doubt, but that's just based on performances this season. Countinho has been sensational; Pogba has veered between average and good, with the odd complete stinker. I'm just talking about form though. Surely you can't argue Pogba has been a better player than Philipe this season?!
Hang on a wee moment there steady thy horses!
Quite where did I say, or quite how you got the inference that I thought that yesterday was Pogba's first poor or below his high standard of game? He took a fair few games after signing the second time (this past summer) to really hit the ground running so to speak, so he had a few questionable or poor games (use whichever term is most apt or applicable in your mind) back then.
I am not trying to say he has been consistently amazing, there is a lot more to come from him no doubt about that, and a lot of room for improvement that much is for sure.
Saying that, he has played well in recent games, and was looking like the player that he can develop into, and that shouldn't be overlooked too much.
In terms of Coutinho v Pogba, I would still take the Frenchman, however offer me Mane, and things might be different, as I think he is a very talented player, and a much better player than Coutinho (not that the Brazilian is not also good, he is).
Of course bats is going to argue that.:D I rarely get into a discussion about which is the best player or team or even make predictions because it just comes back to bite you in the backside. Not really sure how the opta stats work, I assume the ranking is cumulative. That said Pogba is ahead of Coutiho, but Coutinho has only played half the game time, with Pogaba no where near matching Coutinho's best performance and Coutino nowhere near matching Pogba's worst performance. Off course that is just stats and maybe not as reliable as Bats opinion. Sorry Bats couldn't resist, but I know you'll take it as a joke
No worries, we can all have a laugh and a joke here!
I guess just like bums, (to keep it polite), everyone has an opinion!
My opinion is not even that reliable, just take a look at how low or far down the standings in the fantasy football league I currently am!
I wish my thoughts and opinions were better or more reliable then they are!
Don't think Pogba's been as bad as detractors are saying, despite being crap yesterday. But that comes with the territory for the price tag. Anything short of brilliant is awful. Not that I'm suggesting he's been just short of brilliant.
He hasn't been, by some distance.
Yes, he was woeful yesterday, but generally he's been very good. As you say, the price tag seems to be the obvious stick with which to beat him, but so be it.
Yes, he was woeful yesterday, but generally he's been very good. As you say, the price tag seems to be the obvious stick with which to beat him, but so be it.
I've been happy enough with him.
Yeah I think people see the price tag and think he should be this sort of "Roy of the Rovers" sort of superhero player, when he was never bought for such a scenario.
We bought him back to get him here for the long-term, and for him to develop as a player.
His performances have in recent times been good, and not as bad as people are trying to paint them.
I too have been happy to see his improvement, and am more than happy to see him continue to start games for us.
In terms of Coutinho v Pogba, I would still take the Frenchman, however offer me Mane, and things might be different, as I think he is a very talented player, and a much better player than Coutinho (not that the Brazilian is not also good, he is).
Take it from a Liverpool fan, this just isn't true.
Okay, I will bow down to your opinion over the two players, as obviously you would have seen them more often then myself.
I guess I was thinking more from when I saw him more often at Southampton, where he really did impress me.
Mane, Coutinho and Pogba are completely different players. For pace, directness, work rate and goals I'd have Mane. For creativity and pulling the strings, I'd have Coutinho. I'm struggling to define what Pogba does. His output isn't that of a top Premier League attacking midfielder yet, he doesn't run games or work back hard enough to be deeper.
To shine, Pogba needs United to be dominating games. On Sunday, Carrick was smothered so Pogba couldn't afford to roam freely. Choosing Pogba over Coutinho has got to be questioned as I suspect dropping Coutinho into United's team would have a far greater impact than dropping Pogba into the current Liverpool side.
Mane, Coutinho and Pogba are completely different players. For pace, directness, work rate and goals I'd have Mane. For creativity and pulling the strings, I'd have Coutinho. I'm struggling to define what Pogba does. His output isn't that of a top Premier League attacking midfielder yet, he doesn't run games or work back hard enough to be deeper.
To shine, Pogba needs United to be dominating games. On Sunday, Carrick was smothered so Pogba couldn't afford to roam freely. Choosing Pogba over Coutinho has got to be questioned as I suspect dropping Coutinho into United's team would have a far greater impact than dropping Pogba into the current Liverpool side.
I will take someone's views who has seen them play more often than myself, but I did think Mane was the better player out of him and Coutinho, as I liked his dribbling, and fast pace, and direct running at players, it is, or was part of the reason why before our most recent match, I was breathing a bit of a sigh of relief that he was over in Africa, rather than playing against us.
I think he could have caused us a heck of a lot of problems, more than as it turned out Coutinho did, (and he did quite well, and created a few chances himself).
As for what each player does, I would say Pogba is the type of player who should be imposing himself more often, and being the creative hub of the side, he is not there yet, but we are not expecting him to be just yet, he is still only youngish, despite the huge fee that we paid for his services.
We signed him for the long-term, not just this season, but I will say that there is more development that needs to come from him, but so far, he has been doing pretty well, one below par match against yourselves shouldn't be held up too much as a sign that he is not all that he is cracked up to be.
As for Coutinho, I may have this wrong, but does he play from the left, or is he more of a central player? I seem to have it in my head that he is a more from the left cutting in, sort of player? If so, then him and Pogba don't initially start in similar positions.
As for dropping each into the others respective sides, you could be right at this stage, as the tactics of both managers require different sorts of players, and I think Coutinho fits Klopp's more than Pogba would.
Both are very good players, so perhaps it is nitpicking to try and say which one is better than the other currently.
It should be pretty obvious to anyone who watched United regularly last year what Pogba brings to the side. He's not totally consistent yet, but then neither is the team.
Comparing him to diminutive attacking players is futile. It's like comparing Yaya Toure with Eden Hazard.
Mane, Coutinho and Pogba are completely different players. For pace, directness, work rate and goals I'd have Mane. For creativity and pulling the strings, I'd have Coutinho. I'm struggling to define what Pogba does. His output isn't that of a top Premier League attacking midfielder yet, he doesn't run games or work back hard enough to be deeper.
To shine, Pogba needs United to be dominating games. On Sunday, Carrick was smothered so Pogba couldn't afford to roam freely. Choosing Pogba over Coutinho has got to be questioned as I suspect dropping Coutinho into United's team would have a far greater impact than dropping Pogba into the current Liverpool side.
Although it may have been down to opposition tactics could it also be argued that it was simply just a bad day at the office for Pogba?
Throwing Carrick off of his game, certainly played a role in Pogba's relatively poor game, as the two players for us are crucial in helping each other to play well.
As you didn't quote anyone I just wanted to clarify as I agree such comparisons are pointless to a large extent. Team style and balance will make some players more effective in one team over anorher too.
As you didn't quote anyone I just wanted to clarify as I agree such comparisons are pointless to a large extent. Team style and balance will make some players more effective in one team over anorher too.
Fair enough.
I didn't quote anyone as it was a general point about the on-going conversation. It wasn't aimed at anyone specifically.
Although it may have been down to opposition tactics could it also be argued that it was simply just a bad day at the office for Pogba?
Some of the post match analysis explained how Liverpool 'did a job' on Pogba... including putting him in a tricky position that led to him conceding the penalty. Carrick as well. Luckily they can't contain everyone, so we dug out the draw.
Any player can be nullified in a particular match (Carrick, Pogba) and any tactics can be overcome with the right counter-tactics (their pressing by our long balls in the 2nd half) so all this fuss about Pogba is of course a bit daft. As you suggest, we can't judge Pogba (or Carrick) on the basis of one match.
I see that Valencia has got a contract extension, similar to Fellaini's extension, good to see, as he has been back to his good self so far this season.
Comments
Im almost 100% certain you were fully behind Moyes after he was appointed and when I was attacking him you defended him and blamed the board and the poor condition of the squad as well as the board for not spending money?
I agree with all of what you say there, however I am just kind of pre-conditioned to get behind a manager until does something, or there is reasonable reasons to not support them.
If he does something untoward, or not to our best requirements, then of course I will call him out for it, but currently he has been doing a good job, so there isn't much to have a go at him over.
You hide it so well
I was one of the last to call for his head because I believed there must have been something Fergie saw in him to be appointed in the first place. It was probably the game against Stoke away that broke it for me.
I maintain that the squad wasn't great despite the results Fergie got from it. We didn't spend a great deal of money during the last few years of his career at United unlike what we have done since he retired.
I never wanted Moyes and was gutted Jose went to Chelsea and I certainly wasn't one of his cheerleers. With hindsight he should have got the boot at Christmas.
I was also amongst the first who called for LVG to go in December. I got pulled up for suggesting he shouldn't see out his contract if we could get someone else. I actually liked Van Gaal but his football was shocking. Loved his press conferences and was sad to see him go in a way because he was so charismatic.
You think yesterday was Pogba's first bad game for United? Oh dear.
For me he hasn't come close to justifying the fee or hype yet, although I'm aware we were buying potential rather than a finished product.
Right now I'd take Countinho in the team over Pogba without a doubt, but that's just based on performances this season. Countinho has been sensational; Pogba has veered between average and good, with the odd complete stinker. I'm just talking about form though. Surely you can't argue Pogba has been a better player than Philipe this season?!
Of course bats is going to argue that.:D I rarely get into a discussion about which is the best player or team or even make predictions because it just comes back to bite you in the backside. Not really sure how the opta stats work, I assume the ranking is cumulative. That said Pogba is ahead of Coutiho, but Coutinho has only played half the game time, with Pogaba no where near matching Coutinho's best performance and Coutino nowhere near matching Pogba's worst performance. Off course that is just stats and maybe not as reliable as Bats opinion. Sorry Bats couldn't resist, but I know you'll take it as a joke
Hang on a wee moment there steady thy horses!
Quite where did I say, or quite how you got the inference that I thought that yesterday was Pogba's first poor or below his high standard of game? He took a fair few games after signing the second time (this past summer) to really hit the ground running so to speak, so he had a few questionable or poor games (use whichever term is most apt or applicable in your mind) back then.
I am not trying to say he has been consistently amazing, there is a lot more to come from him no doubt about that, and a lot of room for improvement that much is for sure.
Saying that, he has played well in recent games, and was looking like the player that he can develop into, and that shouldn't be overlooked too much.
In terms of Coutinho v Pogba, I would still take the Frenchman, however offer me Mane, and things might be different, as I think he is a very talented player, and a much better player than Coutinho (not that the Brazilian is not also good, he is).
No worries, we can all have a laugh and a joke here!
I guess just like bums, (to keep it polite), everyone has an opinion!
My opinion is not even that reliable, just take a look at how low or far down the standings in the fantasy football league I currently am!
I wish my thoughts and opinions were better or more reliable then they are!
He hasn't been, by some distance.
Yes, he was woeful yesterday, but generally he's been very good. As you say, the price tag seems to be the obvious stick with which to beat him, but so be it.
I've been happy enough with him.
Yeah I think people see the price tag and think he should be this sort of "Roy of the Rovers" sort of superhero player, when he was never bought for such a scenario.
We bought him back to get him here for the long-term, and for him to develop as a player.
His performances have in recent times been good, and not as bad as people are trying to paint them.
I too have been happy to see his improvement, and am more than happy to see him continue to start games for us.
Take it from a Liverpool fan, this just isn't true.
Okay, I will bow down to your opinion over the two players, as obviously you would have seen them more often then myself.
I guess I was thinking more from when I saw him more often at Southampton, where he really did impress me.
Mane, Coutinho and Pogba are completely different players. For pace, directness, work rate and goals I'd have Mane. For creativity and pulling the strings, I'd have Coutinho. I'm struggling to define what Pogba does. His output isn't that of a top Premier League attacking midfielder yet, he doesn't run games or work back hard enough to be deeper.
To shine, Pogba needs United to be dominating games. On Sunday, Carrick was smothered so Pogba couldn't afford to roam freely. Choosing Pogba over Coutinho has got to be questioned as I suspect dropping Coutinho into United's team would have a far greater impact than dropping Pogba into the current Liverpool side.
I will take someone's views who has seen them play more often than myself, but I did think Mane was the better player out of him and Coutinho, as I liked his dribbling, and fast pace, and direct running at players, it is, or was part of the reason why before our most recent match, I was breathing a bit of a sigh of relief that he was over in Africa, rather than playing against us.
I think he could have caused us a heck of a lot of problems, more than as it turned out Coutinho did, (and he did quite well, and created a few chances himself).
As for what each player does, I would say Pogba is the type of player who should be imposing himself more often, and being the creative hub of the side, he is not there yet, but we are not expecting him to be just yet, he is still only youngish, despite the huge fee that we paid for his services.
We signed him for the long-term, not just this season, but I will say that there is more development that needs to come from him, but so far, he has been doing pretty well, one below par match against yourselves shouldn't be held up too much as a sign that he is not all that he is cracked up to be.
As for Coutinho, I may have this wrong, but does he play from the left, or is he more of a central player? I seem to have it in my head that he is a more from the left cutting in, sort of player? If so, then him and Pogba don't initially start in similar positions.
As for dropping each into the others respective sides, you could be right at this stage, as the tactics of both managers require different sorts of players, and I think Coutinho fits Klopp's more than Pogba would.
Both are very good players, so perhaps it is nitpicking to try and say which one is better than the other currently.
Comparing him to diminutive attacking players is futile. It's like comparing Yaya Toure with Eden Hazard.
Although it may have been down to opposition tactics could it also be argued that it was simply just a bad day at the office for Pogba?
A bit of both as always.
Throwing Carrick off of his game, certainly played a role in Pogba's relatively poor game, as the two players for us are crucial in helping each other to play well.
Hence my opening sentence in my response.
Were you the only person comparing players?
As you didn't quote anyone I just wanted to clarify as I agree such comparisons are pointless to a large extent. Team style and balance will make some players more effective in one team over anorher too.
Fair enough.
I didn't quote anyone as it was a general point about the on-going conversation. It wasn't aimed at anyone specifically.
Some of the post match analysis explained how Liverpool 'did a job' on Pogba... including putting him in a tricky position that led to him conceding the penalty. Carrick as well. Luckily they can't contain everyone, so we dug out the draw.
Any player can be nullified in a particular match (Carrick, Pogba) and any tactics can be overcome with the right counter-tactics (their pressing by our long balls in the 2nd half) so all this fuss about Pogba is of course a bit daft. As you suggest, we can't judge Pogba (or Carrick) on the basis of one match.