Anybody control type 2 diabetes by diet alone?

13

Comments

  • PinkPetuniaPinkPetunia Posts: 5,479
    Forum Member
    skribbleuk wrote: »
    Good advice on here, I think the information about how carbs can affect blood sugars is slowly getting out there and into the system.

    I am actually really shocked that its only slowly getting out there . As I said my daughter is Type 1 diabetic and was from day one well and truly informed about the carbs and the effect on blood glucose .It was the carbs she was too count and factor in from day one .
    We live in Ireland so cant speak for the NHS but both she and her young cousin are well educated about carbs and presumed that every diabetic would be educated about them
    From nurse to GP to consultant to dietician to podiatrist to midwife to eye specialist all are well aware of the carb effect and have always thought her about the carb counting .
  • molliepopsmolliepops Posts: 26,821
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Well that wasn't what I was told, the NHS nurse gave me a leaflet saying keep carbs as a third of my diet, and to give up sugar in coffee.

    She was almost angry when I was better using my own methods of eating less carbs. Doctor wasn't exactly angry but has not been very encouraging and quite dismissive of my weight loss.

    And seeing what they are paid to keep me sick I can see why.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 681
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    I am actually really shocked that its only slowly getting out there . As I said my daughter is Type 1 diabetic and was from day one well and truly informed about the carbs and the effect on blood glucose .It was the carbs she was too count and factor in from day one .
    We live in Ireland so cant speak for the NHS but both she and her young cousin are well educated about carbs and presumed that every diabetic would be educated about them
    From nurse to GP to consultant to dietician to podiatrist to midwife to eye specialist all are well aware of the carb effect and have always thought her about the carb counting .

    I think carbs have always factored into it, I remember back in the day when they were called exchanges.

    The problem for a lot us is that no matter how much we factor in for carbs and bolus properly for them, the spike just beats the insulin and we end up doing damage. I find it easy to rollercoaster all over the place with carbs too. Diabetics would have trouble with their hearts, so fat was always demonised and carbs promoted.

    Then when we talk about cutting carbs a lot of health professionals get a bit funny because it goes against conventional thinking or they think of atkins and alarm bells strart ringing. However, I get the feeling that dogma is slowly changing, and whilst the american diabetic association still hasn't out and out said a low carb diet is the way to go, they have at least said "low carb diets help diabetics manage their condition".
  • bobcarbobcar Posts: 19,424
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    People should be very careful when going low carb that they don't eat too much animal protein. Diets high in animal protein are heavily associated with an increased diabetes risk. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19825820

    A plant based diet has been shown in numerous trials to be good for control or reversal of type 2 diabetes. The key is to avoid refined carbohydrates and sugars rather than carbohydrates themselves. Yes eat protein but get it from plant sources like nuts and beans that don't have the diabetes (and blood lipid) association that animal protein does, a win win all round.
  • bobcarbobcar Posts: 19,424
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    skribbleuk wrote: »

    Then when we talk about cutting carbs a lot of health professionals get a bit funny because it goes against conventional thinking or they think of atkins and alarm bells strart ringing. However, I get the feeling that dogma is slowly changing, and whilst the american diabetic association still hasn't out and out said a low carb diet is the way to go, they have at least said "low carb diets help diabetics manage their condition".

    The reason that alarm bells sound when Atkins is mentioned is that it is a dangerous and unhealthy lifestyle. It is not only linked heavily to heart disease but also to diabetes. There is a mass of research indicating this.
  • molliepopsmolliepops Posts: 26,821
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    bobcar wrote: »
    The reason that alarm bells sound when Atkins is mentioned is that it is a dangerous and unhealthy lifestyle. It is not only linked heavily to heart disease but also to diabetes. There is a mass of research indicating this.

    The old style atkins was like that having looked at atkins now it looks to be a healthy diet, protein and vegetables and use butter etc to cook with, not masses of fats and cream etc like they used to suggest.
  • epicurianepicurian Posts: 19,291
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    gamercraig wrote: »
    <snip>
    Another thing that's bad is that the NHS no longer give meter readers to Type 2 sufferers so I have no way of knowing which foods make me spike (apart from the obvious) hence why low carb is the only way forward
    It's as if the NHS and drug companies want cases to increase

    Yikes! Is that true? Even type 2s who use insulin?

    Anyway, I'm a 30+ year type 1, and I completely agree that a controlled carbohydrate diet is the best way to control blood sugar.
  • epicurianepicurian Posts: 19,291
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    skribbleuk wrote: »
    I think carbs have always factored into it, I remember back in the day when they were called exchanges.

    Ah exchanges and NPH. The bad old days. 1 Fat, 2 starches, 2 meats, and milk. No exceptions. No fun.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 681
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    bobcar wrote: »
    People should be very careful when going low carb that they don't eat too much animal protein. Diets high in animal protein are heavily associated with an increased diabetes risk. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19825820

    A plant based diet has been shown in numerous trials to be good for control or reversal of type 2 diabetes. The key is to avoid refined carbohydrates and sugars rather than carbohydrates themselves. Yes eat protein but get it from plant sources like nuts and beans that don't have the diabetes (and blood lipid) association that animal protein does, a win win all round.

    The starch in plants are their energy stores containing sugar. The fact it comes from plants does not mean it will not spike the diabetic's blood sugar.

    That one study you linked does not move me, for a start the conclusion drawn is to do with diabetes prevention, not for those of us trying to control the disease. Secondly, it is careful to use the words may, not will, and the investigation was carried out using a questionnaire.

    It's certainly interesting, but a lot more investigation is needed before you can offer dietary advice based on one study using a questionnaire.
  • molliepopsmolliepops Posts: 26,821
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    skribbleuk wrote: »
    The starch in plants are their energy stores containing sugar. The fact it comes from plants does not mean it will not spike the diabetic's blood sugar.

    That one study you linked does not move me, for a start the conclusion drawn is to do with diabetes prevention, not for those of us trying to control the disease. Secondly, it is careful to use the words may, not will, and the investigation was carried out using a questionnaire.

    It's certainly interesting, but a lot more investigation is needed before you can offer dietary advice based on one study using a questionnaire.

    Also I can't see any thing that says what else people were eating, people eating a lot of animal protein could also have quite a rich diet in many other things detrimental to health I would have imagined.
  • bobcarbobcar Posts: 19,424
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    skribbleuk wrote: »
    The starch in plants are their energy stores containing sugar. The fact it comes from plants does not mean it will not spike the diabetic's blood sugar.

    That one study you linked does not move me, for a start the conclusion drawn is to do with diabetes prevention, not for those of us trying to control the disease. Secondly, it is careful to use the words may, not will, and the investigation was carried out using a questionnaire.

    It's certainly interesting, but a lot more investigation is needed before you can offer dietary advice based on one study using a questionnaire.

    There is more evidence out there, that was just one link.

    Yes the refined carbs and sugars that are present in much of the western diet especially convenience foods is a major issue and everyone not just diabetics should avoid them. However the carbs you get from whole foods do not cause the spikes in the same way because of the other ingredients present.

    One thing that I don't think has been mentioned in this thread is the value of exercise. Exercise is vital for type 2 diabetics as it gets directly at the heart of the problem which is the ability of the cells to take up glucose.
  • gamercraiggamercraig Posts: 6,069
    Forum Member
    Some carbs may be slower at releasing sugar than others but they are still carbs all the same. It's a bit like saying you are ok to eat all fruits because natural sugar is different to sugar added to food.
  • rhodrhod Posts: 3,995
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    There's no "one-diet-fits-all" solution.

    People with a relatively un-damaged metabolism can probably tolerate more carbs than someone who's metabolism has been screwed from years of eating crap.

    For the latter, a high-fat, low-carb, moderate protein solution is worth trying, to see if it works.

    Yes - high-fat - but healthy fats like lard, butter, oily fish, coconut oil, avocados etc. Simple saturated fats are not the enemy. Our ancestors did just fine on them.

    The reason that some get discouraged from an Atkins diet is that if you do eat lots of protein, the body uses what it needs and converts the rest into glucose, which is counter-productive.

    The secret is to try different diet combinations until you find one that works for YOU, in terms of controlling blood sugar levels, suppressing appetite etc.
  • cat's whiskascat's whiskas Posts: 877
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    rhod wrote: »

    Yes - high-fat - but healthy fats like lard, butter, oily fish, coconut oil, avocados etc. Simple saturated fats are not the enemy. Our ancestors did just fine on them.

    .

    Our ancestors had a lot shorter life expectancy than we do now.

    If you had a father who died at 59 of a heart attack (someone who was addicted to cheese) then you'd know that saturated fat is not healthy.
  • Red WhineRed Whine Posts: 1,086
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    I was diagnosed as T2 two years ago. I have a fantastic GP who I'd very encouraging and supportive. I bought my own meter, but because I am on medication for the diabetes I get test strips and lancets prescribed.

    I have followed a low carb diet since diagnosis, and I have lost 78lbs. I tend to eat lean and green,
    Lean meat, plenty of oily fish, green veg and moderate amounts of fruit.
    I don't eat potatoes or pasta very often, and in winter use root veg in stews and casseroles. I also eat a lot of tomatoes and mushrooms,. I trey to keep to about 80 gms of carbs a day.
    On my first check, the GP couldn't believe the difference in me, asked what I was eating, said it was doing me good, and to continue. I'm due an annual check up soon, so it will be interesting to see what has happened in the last year.
  • bobcarbobcar Posts: 19,424
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    rhod wrote: »
    Simple saturated fats are not the enemy. Our ancestors did just fine on them.

    With certain exceptions like the Inuit our ancestors did not eat a diet high in saturated fat. Our hunter gatherer ancestors would have eaten a diet predominantly of plants but supplemented with whatever animals (especially insects) they could get, those animals would not be like modern farm animals in terms of their body composition and would not have been high in saturated fat.
  • rhodrhod Posts: 3,995
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    You could apply the same logic to the plants that we now eat. Many crops have been heavily hybridised and in some cases genetically modified. We can only guess at the long term effects on the human body.

    Organic meat and vegetables are the way to go! ;)

    I know it's more expensive, but by cutting down on carbohydrates and artificial food additives, one's appetite decreases to a natural equilibrium anyway.
  • bspacebspace Posts: 14,303
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Our ancestors had a lot shorter life expectancy than we do now.

    If you had a father who died at 59 of a heart attack (someone who was addicted to cheese) then you'd know that saturated fat is not healthy.

    it's a balancing act

    mono-unsaturated fats are preferred, trans-fats should be excluded if at all possible

    exercise will reduce the risk of a high fat diet
    and moderate exercise after eating will help reduce spikes
  • epicurianepicurian Posts: 19,291
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    bobcar wrote: »
    <snip>However the carbs you get from whole foods do not cause the spikes in the same way because of the other ingredients present.

    One thing that I don't think has been mentioned in this thread is the value of exercise. Exercise is vital for type 2 diabetics as it gets directly at the heart of the problem which is the ability of the cells to take up glucose.

    I think rhod is right when he says there's no one-diet-fits-all solution. I also have a theory that diabetics who test positive C-peptides can probably get away with eating a higher carb diet and have a better chance of avoiding complications. However, in my experience the less insulin I need to inject the better, and it's the number of carbs I consume that has the greatest effect on my blood glucose levels, without question; to my body, it matters little where they come from-- mornings especially when the dawn phenomenon is still a factor.

    I agree about exercise though. It's important for everyone.
  • rhodrhod Posts: 3,995
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    "What If Bad Fat Is Actually Good For You"

    http://www.menshealth.com/health/saturated-fat
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 681
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    bobcar wrote: »
    There is more evidence out there, that was just one link.

    Yes the refined carbs and sugars that are present in much of the western diet especially convenience foods is a major issue and everyone not just diabetics should avoid them. However the carbs you get from whole foods do not cause the spikes in the same way because of the other ingredients present.

    One thing that I don't think has been mentioned in this thread is the value of exercise. Exercise is vital for type 2 diabetics as it gets directly at the heart of the problem which is the ability of the cells to take up glucose.

    Explain the science behind why you think that the carbs in 'whole foods' do not cause the same spikes, i'd love to hear this.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 681
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    epicurian wrote: »
    I think rhod is right when he says there's no one-diet-fits-all solution. I also have a theory that diabetics who test positive C-peptides can probably get away with eating a higher carb diet and have a better chance of avoiding complications. However, in my experience the less insulin I need to inject the better, and it's the number of carbs I consume that has the greatest effect on my blood glucose levels, without question; to my body, it matters little where they come from-- mornings especially when the dawn phenomenon is still a factor.

    I agree about exercise though. It's important for everyone.

    The C-peptide stuff is interesting, are you type 1 and do you take it?
  • epicurianepicurian Posts: 19,291
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    skribbleuk wrote: »
    The C-peptide stuff is interesting, are you type 1 and do you take it?

    Yep, lifelong type 1. I didn't even know C-peptide replacement therapy was available, to be honest. But the research into its role by the Joslin Diabetes Center has been very interesting.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 432
    Forum Member
    epicurian wrote: »
    Yep, lifelong type 1. I didn't even know C-peptide replacement therapy was available, to be honest. But the research into its role by the Joslin Diabetes Center has been very interesting.

    I'm pretty sure it isn't available. I suspect that if it is proven to be protective against complications then it's something that might be added to insulin.

    I don't eat particularly low carb but my control is much better when I eat 110-130g per day as opposed to nearer 200g. Type 1 or 2, carbohydrate awareness and moderation is really important.
  • bobcarbobcar Posts: 19,424
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    skribbleuk wrote: »
    Explain the science behind why you think that the carbs in 'whole foods' do not cause the same spikes, i'd love to hear this.

    No you don't and you won't accept it even when I tell you. A lot of the whole foods such as beans have a low GI in themselves, wheat however does not so it depends. Foods with high fibre do limit the spike however protein taken at the same time does not moderate the spike.

    What is more important however than the immediate spike is how the body deals with it, you need to look at how the diet affects and causes the diabetes itself and what affect it has on associated problems like cardiovascular disease.

    Here is another study showing the relationship between animal protein and diabetes. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20888279

    High levels of protein are correlated with other diseases such as osteoporosis and renal problems. A high protein diet is a high risk strategy.
Sign In or Register to comment.