Radio 1 98.5MHz London sound quality

InkblotInkblot Posts: 26,889
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The last few times I've listened to Radio 1 in the car I've found the audio to be slightly distorted. If I turn off RDS and manually tune to 98.8 from Wrotham it sounds a little better but if I then turn RDS back on I can hear the sound get louder as the radio retunes to 98.5.

Is the audio on the Radio 1 London transmitter deliberately slightly louder than Wrotham, or slightly more heavily compressed, and if so, why?

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  • ChelmsfordNickChelmsfordNick Posts: 196
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    I wonder whether your car aerial has a bias towards the horizontal plane? 98.8 puts out a horizontal and vertical signal, 98.5 vertical only. I have noticed distortion creep in to FM stations when listening from an antenna of the wrong polarity.

    I must admit (though I can't receive 98.5 well enough to comment) that I also find the audio quality on 98.8 shockingly bad - as you say, distorted as though the levels are too high. Have not noticed this problem on Radio 2 FM which still seems to offer (to my ears) a good quality.
  • KnobTwiddlerKnobTwiddler Posts: 1,925
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    Inkblot wrote: »
    Is the audio on the Radio 1 London transmitter deliberately slightly louder than Wrotham, or slightly more heavily compressed, and if so, why?

    Technically the Crystal Palace fill in transmitter was very cleverly engineered by the BBC to allow it to be that close in frequency to the Wrotham transmitter.

    You can read how they did it here.

    It does sound like 98.5 is a little louder and a little distorted, but 98.8 sounds fine, so there may be the problem with the link from Wrotham.
  • Mark CMark C Posts: 20,898
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    Technically the Crystal Palace fill in transmitter was very cleverly engineered by the BBC to allow it to be that close in frequency to the Wrotham transmitter.

    You can read how they did it here.

    It does sound like 98.5 is a little louder and a little distorted, but 98.8 sounds fine, so there may be the problem with the link from Wrotham.

    It could be a bit of 'splashover' from 98.8 Wrotham on your receiver, there might be an imbalance and it's slightly less selective at rejecting signals at +300 kHz, than it is
    at -300 kHz. Of course (see BBC R&D paper) the actual separation is 304 kHz.

    Having said all that, Radio 1's audio quality is a disgrace whatever platform or transmitter you use.
  • swb1964swb1964 Posts: 4,700
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    Someone remind me again why wrotham and crystal palace are so close in frequency for radio one.
  • Gerry1Gerry1 Posts: 4,222
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    swb1964 wrote: »
    Someone remind me again why wrotham and crystal palace are so close in frequency for radio one.
    The 1950s transmitter network was designed for fixed domestic receivers and rooftop aerials, and the transmitter for SE England was some distance from central London. With the growth in portable and car radios using less efficient aerials, it became desirable to have a stronger signal in central London, especially as the commercial stations were using Crystal Palace or Beulah Hill. The increasing number of high rise buildings also weakened the Wrotham signal and caused multipath problems.

    The Band II frequency plan grouped the national networks into sub-bands (hence the familiar punchline '88 to 91' for Radio 2 etc) so it needed to be nearby. However, no other frequency in the London area was available so a formerly taboo slot had to be investigated.

    Clever wizardry allowed this to work without causing interference, so R1, R2, R3, R4 and Classic FM now have a vertically polarised Crystal Palace filler 304kHz below Wrotham.
  • swb1964swb1964 Posts: 4,700
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    So why didn't they use 98.4?
  • Mark CMark C Posts: 20,898
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    Gerry1 wrote: »
    Clever wizardry allowed this to work without causing interference, so R1, R2, R3, R4 and Classic FM now have a vertically polarised Crystal Palace filler 304kHz below Wrotham.

    The only downside, is because of the very accurate transpostion required, the CP transmitters must rebroadcast the signal from Wrotham. The unfortunate side effect is if (and it has in the past) Wrotham fails, off goes R1-4 & Classic from CP too.

    It would be useful if CP could switch to its own input feeds should Wrotham fail, but that's expense, getting standby feeds to CP, and arranging the for the Txs to have auto changeover equipment.

    However, I'm surprised they don't. Wrotham serves 13 million homes (including London either directly or through CP), CP FM itself 8 or 9 million, quite a chunk of the UK population.
  • Gerry1Gerry1 Posts: 4,222
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    swb1964 wrote: »
    So why didn't they use 98.4?
    Presumably because the jigsaw wouldn't fit? Rowridge and Bow Brickhill would have been only 200kHz away on 98.2.
  • Mark CMark C Posts: 20,898
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    swb1964 wrote: »
    So why didn't they use 98.4?

    It's a good question, using Wrotham minus 400 kHz would put CP 200 kHz above Rowridge, that's the geographically nearest potential conflict, which wouldn't have been a problem.

    There must have been some local oscillator relationships that prevented the use of those freqs ?
  • Mark CMark C Posts: 20,898
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    Gerry1 wrote: »
    Presumably because the jigsaw wouldn't fit? Rowridge and Bow Brickhill would have been only 200kHz away on 98.2.

    I'd forgotten about Bow B, but I don't think either Tx are strong enough in London to cause any grief, and certainly not the reverse ?
  • InkblotInkblot Posts: 26,889
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    I've never noticed the current arrangement causing any problems and Radios 2, 3 and 4 don't sound distorted to me. It was the way the volume slightly increased as the RDS retuned from 98.5 to 98.8 that made me wonder if this was a deliberate policy to make Radio 1 louder in London.
  • Gerry1Gerry1 Posts: 4,222
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    Mark C wrote: »
    It's a good question, using Wrotham minus 400 kHz would put CP 200 kHz above Rowridge, that's the geographically nearest potential conflict, which wouldn't have been a problem.

    There must have been some local oscillator relationships that prevented the use of those freqs ?
    Radio 3 CP on 90.9 would have been 10.7MHz below 101.6 currently used for kmfm at Wrotham ??
  • Mark CMark C Posts: 20,898
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    Inkblot wrote: »
    I've never noticed the current arrangement causing any problems and Radios 2, 3 and 4 don't sound distorted to me. It was the way the volume slightly increased as the RDS retuned from 98.5 to 98.8 that made me wonder if this was a deliberate policy to make Radio 1 louder in London.

    It's odd that it is louder. It's a direct transposition of Wrotham, so I would have thought
    whatever deviation Wrotham is set to, would just transparently be replicated at CP too ?
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