Funny thing is, I would have classified you as white!
As an non-white immigrant to this country, I find this curious. I think there are people who don't think of non-whites as British, especially English. Having lived in both England and Scotland, the distinction of race doesn't seem to be as big of a deal up there as it does down here. I dunno, maybe it's because Scotland has such a strong national identity. Within the English regions, there seems to be a strong identities. Perhaps it's because England doesn't really have to punch above its weight within the UK.
I dunno - would you call it off-White? Meditterranean bronze? I've heard my skin colour described as olive coloured - if you consider that a colour.
But yes I know what you meant about my skin colour. As you said it's one discussion for us here to have about skin colour and what it is to be English or British, but there exists a minority of people who would be very keen not to accept/recognise non-whites as being English.
Speaking of which, with respect to the OP IMHO it is perfectly possible and acceptable for a non-white to consider themselves English.
Oh yeah, because those who published the Protocols of Zion and that nonsense from Pike were proclaimed as being good friends to the Jewish people. Yeah, the protocols which you linked to, did real favors to the Jews of Europe.
You need to do some reading mate, The biggest enemy of the average Jews are the Zionists, millions of Jews around the world know this go do some research.
"But I would argue that you could easily divide up the North and South of England into 2 ethnic groups"
The North and South of England are obviously smaller areas than the whole of England
TBH, I'm not sure you really understand what ethnicity is about, it's got little to do with physiology for example. Ethnicity is normally used to refer to relatively small areas, certainly not large areas as you seem to think, and is concerned with issues such as a common heritage, culture, language etc.
\Exactly! I was pointing out the problems with trying to apply ethnicity to England.... Its difficult to isolate. At least with Western Europe you have language and cultural similarities as well as defined outward appearances.
I've seen DNA studies into ethnicity which would imply that it was partially physiiological in nature.
You don't even have to go that far outside of London to find villages like that. I only live in Kent and I can go for weeks without seeing a non white face around here.
It did shock me when I moved here after being born and bred in South London but it's just the way it is.
My partner is Spanish and I swear he's as close to being an ethnic minority as it gets here.
Indeed
The census data will make for interesting reading because obviously most of our stats are 10 years old.. but the actual percentage of ethnic minorities in this country is far smaller than most people think.
However the way communities have formed, ethnicities tend to congregate in groups. In some places, like where I live, it's a predominantly ethnic area.. but that means in many areas outside big towns there will be very few to no ethnic minorities.
Nor is it about the colour of your skin, but it can be about where you or your parents were born. Likewise, that same Pakistani child may not identify with anything to do with being Pakistani and may decide to call himself Asian British or just English, because all of their traditions and customs are from this country. This is common in the USA-- so much so that I met many people that I now know are Pakistani, but because they had nothing to do with the culture, did not call themselves that. I have no ethnicity at all.
Actually, in that case you may be right a Pakistani child who does not identify with their Pakistani culture but with English could be classified as ethnically English. Bit of a gray area really, but I'd go along with that
i have ....but that was many moons ago...an as far i can recall, your assertion is correct..or was
time moves on,and whether we like it or not,the reality is that ethnic minorities are now part of the fabric of this country
living in some abstract time warp doesn't make it ok
I don't live in an abstract time warp.
I was only poniting out that you were mistaken in saying that a lack of ethnic minorities in rural villages was not a true representation, when it absolutely is.
You're entitled to your own opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts. Believe it or not, this kind of thing is very important.
So where would you place my kids? One born in England, one in Scotland. Dad's white Scottish, mom's black American. Dad's family has been in Scotland probably since the time of the Picts. Mom has a bit of English ancestery. For some people, by way of being brown, my children will never be English or British even.
So don't you pass on anything to your children?
Seems just as odd for somebody to deny they are half Scottish/half American just because they don't live in either of those countries.
Using "British" encompasses your husbands ethniticity, being English doesn't cover anything passed on by their parents.
People ask "where are you from" I'm not sure if they only mean the piece of land the person happens to be on at that moment.
And you're right, this kind of thing is important. But it's important to those who are English who feel their identity is being denied as well as those who for reasons of coming from/being immigrants are looking for an identity. Why should your sense of it being important outweigh those who also feel it's important coming from the opposite view?
You need to do some reading mate, The biggest enemy of the average Jews are the Zionists, millions of Jews around the world know this go do some research.
How many Jews do you know? I've met quite a few and I don't remember any of them mentioning this threat. Now go on, have you made this fact up?
Being English means you were born in England and unless you choose not to identify yourself as English, you're English.
And many people who may not have been born in England but have lived here most of their lives, worked here and made a life here if they want to call themselves English they can be bloody English.
\Exactly! I was pointing out the problems with trying to apply ethnicity to England.... Its difficult to isolate. At least with Western Europe you have language and cultural similarities as well as defined outward appearances.
The English share more language and cultural similarites with eachother than they do with other European countries.
I've seen DNA studies into ethnicity which would imply that it was partially physiiological in nature.
Genotype and physiology can coincide with ethnicity, but it's not how ethnicity is defined
\Exactly! I was pointing out the problems with trying to apply ethnicity to England.... Its difficult to isolate. At least with Western Europe you have language and cultural similarities as well as defined outward appearances.
I've seen DNA studies into ethnicity which would imply that it was partially physiiological in nature.
I don't think ethnicity really comes into it, Many Irish people probably most are ethnically as mixed as anywhere else in Europe.
So to single out England is nonsense.
To be English or German or anywhere else is to me based on a common identity and not one of DNA.
For example people in Scotland are from a variety of Ethnic backgrounds but they have names and cultural ways that bind them together.
The English share more language and cultural similarites with eachother than they do with other European countries.
Genotype and physiology can coincide with ethnicity, but it's not how ethnicity is defined
Yeah, western Europeans probably too broad. I think you can define and isolate a British ethnic group more easily than an English one given the island isolation from other populations.
Hmm, I will say one thing here... this isn't true.
I don't agree with the sentiments in the opening post by the way, just in case this comes across as such..
But there are plenty of places in the UK where ethnic minorities don't live, at all, because they just never moved there. My Mum is from a village in Wales and to this day there are virtually no ethnic minorities. Some Welsh Chinese run the chippy, and there was a big fuss when the 'first black person in the village' moved in.
I live in the South East, in an area which is about 90% Asian in ethnicity.. but in some parts of the country there isn't any sort of ethnic minority.
i did say it was disquieting to see no ethnic minorities
" virtually no ethnic minorities " is actuality....no ethnics is irrational,and,quite frankly,offensive
Think the word "English" isn't the issue. The word "Englishness" is.
In this case, a (bygone) cultural identity existing in a fictional old English county of a fictional TV show. Recogniseable and characteristic of your common or garden quintessential stereotypical personality. A bit like Sanjeev Bhaskar and his buddies "going for an English".
Being English means you were born in England and unless you choose not to identify yourself as English, you're English.
And many people who may not have been born in England but have lived here most of their lives, worked here and made a life here if they want to call themselves English they can be bloody English.
Thats fine, but what spoils it are those who do that and claim to be English and then support their original country when they play England at Football or something.
I'm pretty sure not many people would be thinking of anyone who looks like me if they were asked to think of someone "typically English."
If I could have a £1 for every time i've been asked "Where are you really from though?" i'd have..ooo...at least £45.
One of my parents is mixed race (black/white) and I was asked "what are you then?" by someone who couldn't understand why i'd have such a background.
I'm British for sure, so's my husband and my children.
Like Hypnodisc said, where we live (I'm sure he's not too far from where I live) it's about 90% asian. When I moved here , it took me about 2 years to settle in.
The asians regarded me as English cos I dressed westernised, always have done and the English regarded me as asian cos I have a brown face!
Yeah, western Europeans probably too broad. I think you can define and isolate a British ethnic group more easily than an English one given the island isolation from other populations.
I think you can isolate a British ethnic group, an English ethnic group, a Welsh ethnic group, a North Waleian (sp?) ethnic group and so on. There's no requirement for one's membership of an ethnic group to exclude the membership of of smaller, or larger ethnic groups (I've no doubt that anthopologists even have distinct names for such types of ethnic identity).
As an Englishman who lived in Wales for a long time I certainly felt I was from a distinct ethnic group than the Welsh that I knew
i did say it was disquieting to see no ethnic minorities
" virtually no ethnic minorities " is actuality....no ethnics is irrational,and,quite frankly,offensive
Why is no ethnics irrational and offensive? If none live in these places how can that be? Should people of ethnic backgrounds be forced to spread out and to live in each village and town across the country to make up the numbers?
Comments
What???
I dunno - would you call it off-White?
But yes I know what you meant about my skin colour. As you said it's one discussion for us here to have about skin colour and what it is to be English or British, but there exists a minority of people who would be very keen not to accept/recognise non-whites as being English.
Speaking of which, with respect to the OP IMHO it is perfectly possible and acceptable for a non-white to consider themselves English.
You need to do some reading mate, The biggest enemy of the average Jews are the Zionists, millions of Jews around the world know this go do some research.
RANGERS!
am i right?
\Exactly! I was pointing out the problems with trying to apply ethnicity to England.... Its difficult to isolate. At least with Western Europe you have language and cultural similarities as well as defined outward appearances.
I've seen DNA studies into ethnicity which would imply that it was partially physiiological in nature.
Indeed
The census data will make for interesting reading because obviously most of our stats are 10 years old.. but the actual percentage of ethnic minorities in this country is far smaller than most people think.
However the way communities have formed, ethnicities tend to congregate in groups. In some places, like where I live, it's a predominantly ethnic area.. but that means in many areas outside big towns there will be very few to no ethnic minorities.
Actually, in that case you may be right a Pakistani child who does not identify with their Pakistani culture but with English could be classified as ethnically English. Bit of a gray area really, but I'd go along with that
I don't live in an abstract time warp.
I was only poniting out that you were mistaken in saying that a lack of ethnic minorities in rural villages was not a true representation, when it absolutely is.
So don't you pass on anything to your children?
Seems just as odd for somebody to deny they are half Scottish/half American just because they don't live in either of those countries.
Using "British" encompasses your husbands ethniticity, being English doesn't cover anything passed on by their parents.
People ask "where are you from" I'm not sure if they only mean the piece of land the person happens to be on at that moment.
And you're right, this kind of thing is important. But it's important to those who are English who feel their identity is being denied as well as those who for reasons of coming from/being immigrants are looking for an identity. Why should your sense of it being important outweigh those who also feel it's important coming from the opposite view?
How many Jews do you know? I've met quite a few and I don't remember any of them mentioning this threat. Now go on, have you made this fact up?
You're showing your prejudice. I'm not even scottish and even if I was I've never followed football.
That's the problem when people make assumptions on what they guess rather than finding out the truth.
And many people who may not have been born in England but have lived here most of their lives, worked here and made a life here if they want to call themselves English they can be bloody English.
The English share more language and cultural similarites with eachother than they do with other European countries.
Genotype and physiology can coincide with ethnicity, but it's not how ethnicity is defined
Logic and historical knowledge aren't among Mr. Players strengths. I'm sure he'll produce similar madness in the future.
I don't think ethnicity really comes into it, Many Irish people probably most are ethnically as mixed as anywhere else in Europe.
So to single out England is nonsense.
To be English or German or anywhere else is to me based on a common identity and not one of DNA.
For example people in Scotland are from a variety of Ethnic backgrounds but they have names and cultural ways that bind them together.
"Where were you born?"
"England."
"No I mean where are you from?"
"England."
"Yes but where are you really from?"
I'm pretty sure not many people would be thinking of anyone who looks like me if they were asked to think of someone "typically English."
Yeah, western Europeans probably too broad. I think you can define and isolate a British ethnic group more easily than an English one given the island isolation from other populations.
Well that was fun. Gotta run.
i did say it was disquieting to see no ethnic minorities
" virtually no ethnic minorities " is actuality....no ethnics is irrational,and,quite frankly,offensive
In this case, a (bygone) cultural identity existing in a fictional old English county of a fictional TV show. Recogniseable and characteristic of your common or garden quintessential stereotypical personality. A bit like Sanjeev Bhaskar and his buddies "going for an English".
Thats fine, but what spoils it are those who do that and claim to be English and then support their original country when they play England at Football or something.
If I could have a £1 for every time i've been asked "Where are you really from though?" i'd have..ooo...at least £45.
One of my parents is mixed race (black/white) and I was asked "what are you then?" by someone who couldn't understand why i'd have such a background.
Like Hypnodisc said, where we live (I'm sure he's not too far from where I live) it's about 90% asian. When I moved here , it took me about 2 years to settle in.
The asians regarded me as English cos I dressed westernised, always have done and the English regarded me as asian cos I have a brown face!
I think you can isolate a British ethnic group, an English ethnic group, a Welsh ethnic group, a North Waleian (sp?) ethnic group and so on. There's no requirement for one's membership of an ethnic group to exclude the membership of of smaller, or larger ethnic groups (I've no doubt that anthopologists even have distinct names for such types of ethnic identity).
As an Englishman who lived in Wales for a long time I certainly felt I was from a distinct ethnic group than the Welsh that I knew
Why is no ethnics irrational and offensive? If none live in these places how can that be? Should people of ethnic backgrounds be forced to spread out and to live in each village and town across the country to make up the numbers?