Our Dog has Bitten another Dog

War On · 04/06/14 - 20:29

Hi all, please can I ask for some advice..?

Our two dogs where inside our front garden today when a person who visited our property tied their dog to the outside fence.

When we went outside (into garden - not onto path), the dog belonging to our visitor put its head through the fence (standard 4 foot picket fence).

When their dog put their face through the gaps in the picket fence, our dog then bit the other dogs tongue which has led to it splitting.

Please can you advise as to who is at fault. If anyone has any legal experience etc. please state that in your reply as naturally I can hold this info in higher regard than general opinions (but all opinions are appreciated and welcome).

If you'd all be so kind to answer the poll I have added to this thread, again that would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance and if you need any more info, please let me know.

For the poll, who is responsible and who should pay?
- All our fault?
- All their fault?
- Both parties equally at fault?

Louise32 · 04/06/14 - 20:43

Split 50/50

Ouch, poor dog that sounds painful.

I think you should meet the other dog's owner half way with the bill as although your dog was in the wrong they maybe shouldn't have tied it up where they did.

Either way I think it's only right you pay at least something towards the bill.

Hope the dog will be ok and it won't be too expensive.

Are you friends with the owner of the dog or was it a random visitor to your door?

If it's a random visitor they may want you to pay everything, I don't know.

kippeh · 04/06/14 - 20:46

They pay

Their dog encroached on the territory of your dog, so they should pay. Your dog did nothing wrong. It's tough.

Louise32 · 04/06/14 - 20:48

Split 50/50

I would be concerned that they could say your dog attacked our dog, it's vicious we want it put down.

I hope that doesn't happen as Kippeh said it did encroach your dog's territory but I'd be looking to defend your dog just in case.

War On · 04/06/14 - 20:54

Thanks to you both so far. From a legal perspective, my guess is that Kippeh is correct and thanks. My mum (softie bless her) would pay it all but I have suggested 50/50 from a goodwill/morale perspective - so thanks Louise32 also.

Of course the main thing is that the dog is ok and its resolved amicably as they are neighbours and loose friends.

War On · 04/06/14 - 20:58

Louise32 wrote: »

I would be concerned that they could say your dog attacked our dog, it's vicious we want it put down.

I hope that doesn't happen as Kippeh said it did encroach your dog's territory but I'd be looking to defend your dog just in case.

Hi Louise, is there a risk that offering to pay in full admits liability and could that lead to them using it against us if it went that far as you suggest it could (worse case of course). Tbh I don't think it will go that far but from what you wrote, I can see the risk of them going down that route.

Likewise does 50/50 risk that?

Louise32 · 04/06/14 - 21:00

Split 50/50

It's good you know them as there's more chance of resolving it amicably then.

Unfortunately these things sometimes happen as animals have a wild side, even domesticated animals like cats and dogs.

Nightmare. Hope you get a reasonable vet bill.

Louise32 · 04/06/14 - 21:04

Split 50/50

I'm not sure as I'm not a solicitor but if it did go that far which hopefully it won't, I would say that you weren't admitting liability as the dog did encroach your dog's space, but that you did it as a goodwill gesture as it seemed right to do so.

It might be good to try and get legal advise. Hopefully someone on here will be a solicitor.

Louise32 · 04/06/14 - 21:07

Split 50/50

How have they reacted to it?

Do they seem angry about it or have they been ok about it, just concerned with their dog?

Keiō Line · 04/06/14 - 21:09

It could have been a child putting its hand through the fence to pat the dog.

It is this type of scenario the government increased the powers available to use against dog owners.

Dont worry, no one is saying your dog would be subject to being killed, but if it went before the courts they could easily and justifiably order it to be muzzled when outdoors.

Normandie · 04/06/14 - 21:10

They pay

Unless any of the dogs are famous for being aggressive towards other dogs and therefore this outcome could have been predicted, I think this is a case of sometimes, shit happens. Not directly anyone's fault - just an unfortunate combination of circumstances and an unlucky bite that did damage.

Yes, your dogs perhaps should have been sent inside when the other dog was tied to the fence... perhaps the other dog should have been tied out of reach (if it was going to be tied at all)... but unless one or other of the owners knew there might be a problem based on previous experience, this is a situation where hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Who pays? In the circumstances precisely as described and as owner of the bitten dog, would I expect the biter's owner's to pay? No. If I was there, it was my responsibility to keep my dog safe and I'd have failed. If the aggressor had run out of the garden and bitten my dog then that would be different - but as it is, the dog was in its own garden and didn't have to leave it in order to cause the damage.

And OP, there's no point asking people to state their legal standing - or lack of - this is tinterweb, people sometimes lie. Trolls lurk. Look for sensible, logical replies and base your thinking on those.

War On · 04/06/14 - 21:15

Normandie wrote: »

Unless any of the dogs are famous for being aggressive towards other dogs and therefore this outcome could have been predicted, I think this is a case of sometimes, shit happens. Not directly anone's fault - just an unfortunate combination of circumstances and a 'lucky' bite that did damage.

Yes, your dogs perhaps should have been sent inside when the other dog was tied to the fence... perhaps the other dog should have been tied out of reach (if it was going to be tied at all)... but unless one or other of the owners knew there might be a problem based on previous experience, this is a situation where hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Who pays? In the circumstances precisely as described and as owner of the bitten dog, would I expect the biter's owner's to pay? No. If I was there, it was my responsibility to keep my dog safe and I'd have failed. If the aggressor had run out of the garden and bitten my dog then that would be different - but as it is, the dog was in its own garden and didn't have to leave it in order to cause the damage.

And OP, there's no point asking people to state their legal standing - or lack of - this is tinterweb, people sometimes lie. Trolls lurk. Look for sensible, logical replies and base your thinking on those.

Thanks, you read my mind as that's exactly what I think. Also I must admit I was concerned about trolling so thanks for your sensible advice on that too! Especially now I have re-read my first post where I stated did hold that in higher regard!! How silly

P.s. No history of aggression.

Keiō Line · 04/06/14 - 21:18

War On wrote: »

P.s. No history of aggression.

It has now.

War On · 04/06/14 - 21:20

Keiō Line wrote: »

It could have been a child putting its hand through the fence to pat the dog.

It is this type of scenario the government increased the powers available to use against dog owners.

Dont worry, no one is saying your dog would be subject to being killed, but if it went before the courts they could easily and justifiably order it to be muzzled when outdoors.

My wife said exactly that.

I'm clearly biased but I explained very firmly that if that ever happens to our 18 month old that I'd be blaming us for it. If however we were walking along and dogs head came through the picket fence and managed to bite a child, then I think that would be the fault of the owner for not ensuring the boundary was sufficient in restraining their dog. But I stress I'm only expressing my opinion.

The fact that I'm not sure if that's the correct standpoint is the very reason I'm posting on here about this so thanks again to you all for your contributions.

War On · 04/06/14 - 21:22

Keiō Line wrote: »

It has now.

Sadly, that's a fair point.

annette kurten · 04/06/14 - 21:26

We pay (medical & cosmetic bills)

i voted you pay but i hadn`t read the op properly, i`m on the fence [through which i won`t be putting my face].

coopermanyorks · 04/06/14 - 21:26

go on tell us its a Staffie

duffsdad · 04/06/14 - 21:32

In most doggy circles unless severely provoked the biter's owner should pick up the tab.

Should say a condition of my insurance is declaring the details of the biters owner if I know it and they will pursue the biter to recover costs they shell out in treatment.

Waj_100 · 04/06/14 - 21:37

They pay

Personally I would never have thought of fastening my dog to a fence where other dogs were present.
I think the owner of the other dog was completely at fault and should stand their own costs, however, as the other owner is a neighbour and friend and in the interests of peace and harmony, an amicable settlement should be attempted.

This is only my personal opinion as a dog owner, I'm not a solicitor.

Deb Arkle · 04/06/14 - 21:42

Split 50/50

I've voted 50/50, because in that situation that's how I'd want to go....the owner was partly responsible for not tying their dog up safely, but at the same time it's your dog which inflicted the damage so I reckon both should pay. (Nothing legal - I'm going purely on how I feel morally, as I know nothing about the legalities). Hope the other dog recovers well, OP.

dekaf · 04/06/14 - 21:54

We pay (medical & cosmetic bills)

Poor dog. I am sorry to say that I actually think it should be your responsibility, OP. If you let your dog out, knowing that your friend's dog was tied up outside, then I think you created the situation unfortunately.

Rae_Roo · 04/06/14 - 21:57

We pay (medical & cosmetic bills)

War On wrote: »

My wife said exactly that.

I'm clearly biased but I explained very firmly that if that ever happens to our 18 month old that I'd be blaming us for it. If however we were walking along and dogs head came through the picket fence and managed to bite a child, then I think that would be the fault of the owner for not ensuring the boundary was sufficient in restraining their dog. But I stress I'm only expressing my opinion.

The fact that I'm not sure if that's the correct standpoint is the very reason I'm posting on here about this so thanks again to you all for your contributions.

I'm afraid I agree very much with the point raised, and feel that if you're going to have dogs in a front (pavement facing) garden, then it should be a fence/wall without gaps. Imagine two neighbours bumping into each other, having a quick chat outside your house, with a wee kiddie that sticks their hand in the gap, parents are only human, and a seconds lapse in concentration is all it would take.

Fact is, it wasn't a child, but I'd be inclined to pay the full bill, with my sincerest apologies, because I'd believe it was my responsibility the situation occurred, given the scenario and the fact the dog acted in an aggressive manner and bit the other. As for liability, that's a whole other issue, but morally I believe it would rest with me.

Waj_100 · 04/06/14 - 22:08

They pay

dekaf wrote: »

Poor dog. I am sorry to say that I actually think it should be your responsibility, OP. If you let your dog out, knowing that your friend's dog was tied up outside, then I think you created the situation unfortunately.

The OP said the dogs were already in the garden before the other person tied their dog to the fence...not a sensible thing to do in my opinion.

dekaf · 04/06/14 - 22:24

We pay (medical & cosmetic bills)

Waj_100 wrote: »

The OP said the dogs were already in the garden before the other person tied their dog to the fence...not a sensible thing to do in my opinion.

Oh yeah. Changes things slightly then. In which case 50/50 then. Sorry for getting it wrong OP.

Vast_Girth · 04/06/14 - 22:31

We pay (medical & cosmetic bills)

I think ultimately your dog was the aggressor so you should pay the entire bill.

War On · 04/06/14 - 22:36

annette kurten wrote: »

i voted you pay but i hadn`t read the op properly, i`m on the fence [through which i won`t be putting my face].

Lol

coopermanyorks wrote: »

go on tell us its a Staffie

Shih Tzu

duffsdad wrote: »

In most doggy circles unless severely provoked the biter's owner should pick up the tab.

Should say a condition of my insurance is declaring the details of the biters owner if I know it and they will pursue the biter to recover costs they shell out in treatment.

Thanks, I take you opinion re tab onboard fully. However, just my opinion, but I'm not too swayed by the rules/procedure of insurance claims. Most insurers would sue God if they could when it comes to floods etc. ;-) They try not to pay anything and when they do pay, they'll try anything to reclaim the costs elsewhere.

Waj_100 wrote: »

Personally I would never have thought of fastening my dog to a fence where other dogs were present.
I think the owner of the other dog was completely at fault and should stand their own costs, however, as the other owner is a neighbour and friend and in the interests of peace and harmony, an amicable settlement should be attempted.

This is only my personal opinion as a dog owner, I'm not a solicitor.

Completely agree IMO but that isn't to discredit anyone who disagrees.

Rae_Roo wrote: »

I'm afraid I agree very much with the point raised, and feel that if you're going to have dogs in a front (pavement facing) garden, then it should be a fence/wall without gaps. Imagine two neighbours bumping into each other, having a quick chat outside your house, with a wee kiddie that sticks their hand in the gap, parents are only human, and a seconds lapse in concentration is all it would take.

Fact is, it wasn't a child, but I'd be inclined to pay the full bill, with my sincerest apologies, because I'd believe it was my responsibility the situation occurred, given the scenario and the fact the dog acted in an aggressive manner and bit the other. As for liability, that's a whole other issue, but morally I believe it would rest with me.

Thanks for your post.

dekaf wrote: »

Poor dog. I am sorry to say that I actually think it should be your responsibility, OP. If you let your dog out, knowing that your friend's dog was tied up outside, then I think you created the situation unfortunately.

Interesting points but as below, they were already outside.

Waj_100 wrote: »

The OP said the dogs were already in the garden before the other person tied their dog to the fence...not a sensible thing to do in my opinion.

Thanks for ur thoughts Waj_100

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