It's no more or less a tiring listen than 5 Live's AM processing, nor that of Heart's heavy AGC on FM. Neither of which are struggling for hours or reach.
I'm afraid as much as it winds up anoraks and enthusiasts, normal listeners wont even know what a Multiband is. Never alone how its set.
Is it loud enough? Can I hear it without difficultly?
Classic FM wouldn't of stood a chance without heavy processing. Nor would of R4 FM listening compared to the heavily compressed R4 LW.
More importantly do I like what I hear? Content comes first. If its a hot selection of the biggest tunes, people will tune in. Prefer Rihanna's new one to Katy B on Radio 1? Don't like Dubstep or James Blake? Then 4 tightly seg'd hits with minimal chatter in the way will win through, irrelevant of how tiring it might be.
It doesn't sound as tiring as AM?? Are you serious?
It is an FM station and sounds completely different to Heart, which is not nearly as fatiguing.
I'm not arguing against heavy processing, just god awful processing. Get a grip man, and a pair of ears while you're about it.
My other half moaned about it the day it was changed and shes as normal as it gets listener wise.
I dont get the Hearts AGC comment either. Heart on 106 sounds great to my ears.
As for the "i thought it was a community station" comment i can tell you the processing on the one i am involved with (that uses a BW DSPX FM) now sounds 100% better than Leicester Sounds awful mess.
Whoever thinks it sounds good the way it is needs a hearing test
I'm afraid as much as it winds up anoraks and enthusiasts, normal listeners wont even know what a Multiband is. Never alone how its set.
Is it loud enough? Can I hear it without difficultly?
More importantly do I like what I hear? Content comes first. If its a hot selection of the biggest tunes, people will tune in. Prefer Rihanna's new one to Katy B on Radio 1? Don't like Dubstep or James Blake? Then 4 tightly seg'd hits with minimal chatter in the way will win through, irrelevant of how tiring it might be.
Perfect. Sums things up nicely.
I know a shedload of 'normal' people (who don't work in radio ;-) ) who haven't even battered a wink since the processing changes. Do Galaxy still play Rihanna? Katy Perry? Ah yes, nothing has changed. Sorry - but that IS how the listeners think.
The sound won't change - it was designed like that. Global ARE aware but once again, it was *designed* like that.
Bear in mind that Galaxy / Capital is heavy on reach-based sampling (music rotation alone will tell you that) instead of hours. So yes, the processing IS intense and WILL tire people but so do the rotations - hand in hand. Objective achieved.
The sound won't change - it was designed like that. Global ARE aware but once again, it was *designed* like that.
Bear in mind that Galaxy / Capital is heavy on reach-based sampling (music rotation alone will tell you that) instead of hours. So yes, the processing IS intense and WILL tire people but so do the rotations - hand in hand. Objective achieved.
So reading between your lines, are you trying to say Gal-ital Dont actually want people listening for long periods of time, incase they notice the very heavy rotation of music ? Lets say, no longer than 20 to 30 mins anyway?
Maybe your right. Heavy rotation of music, heavy rotation of expencive national advertising.
It all makes sence now. They catch them in the car on the way to work, then the work place has some middle of the road station if they could be bothered to pay the stupid PRS for music licence, then they catch them on the way home again with the same tunes and adverts.
So reading between your lines, are you trying to say Gal-ital Dont actually want people listening for long periods of time, incase they notice the very heavy rotation of music ? Lets say, no longer than 20 to 30 mins anyway?
Maybe your right. Heavy rotation of music, heavy rotation of expencive national advertising.
It all makes sence now. They catch them in the car on the way to work, then the work place has some middle of the road station if they could be bothered to pay the stupid PRS for music licence, then they catch them on the way home again with the same tunes and adverts.
by jove, I think we've got it!!!!!!!
Still rubbish though.
Total genius.
Stage 1: Make the music rotation unbearable.
Stage 2: Make the audio unlistenable.
Stage 3: ?????
Stage 4: Profit.
So simple, it's brilliant.
The only question is: Why did no one think of it before?
Maybe they are trying to dupe their audience, with its 20 minute attention span, into thinking Galaxy always sounded crap and then on Capital launch day they will switch to a decent sound?
Maybe they are trying to dupe their audience, with its 20 minute attention span, into thinking Galaxy always sounded crap and then on Capital launch day they will switch to a decent sound?
This has been mentioned a couple of times over and we've sadly been asured this is not the case.
Infact, under no uncertain terms, we've been assured it will continue to sound sh!t for a long time to come.
Orban is the equivalent to what Heinz is to tomato ketchup. Omnia is ASDA Smartprice.
You'll never get an Omnia sounding as good or better than an Orban. There's just no contest.
That is complete and utter nonsense. Totally, patently untrue.
Orban and Omnia are highly-regarded the world over. Both manufacturers have processors on-air at market-leading stations in the world's largest radio markets. It's often a matter of personal taste between the two, but your ketchup analogy is way off the mark.
Omnia 6 is a more expensive processor than the Optimod 8400 it replaced at the Galaxy sites. £12,000 a pop (or thereabouts) is hardly Asda Smartprice.
Both companies make top quality processors. And the reputation of both are subject to the people who ultimately set them at the radio stations.
The Galaxy Optimods were set-up pretty well. The Capital Ominas are not, in my opinion.
"Omnia has been an extremely important part of the KIIS-FM sound... nothing has come even close in providing the full, rich, competitive sound we use to tantalize our listeners." Mike Callaghan, Chief Engineer, KIIS-FM / Los Angeles
Why is Capital using Omnia 6? The new Omnia.11 is out but before that it was the Omnia ONE. Why such an outdated processor?
I wonder this also from Absolute Radio.
Why is Capital using Omnia 6? The new Omnia.11 is out but before that it was the Omnia ONE. Why such an outdated processor?
I wonder this also from Absolute Radio.
It's hardly outdated. The new Omnia 11 is so new that I'm not even sure if it's on-air anywhere yet-- certainly in this country. Absolute 105.8 perhaps. The Omnia One is a budget processor in a different class to the 6 or 11 - aimed at a different Market. So the 6 is very much today's, major station, major Market offering from Omnia - and will be for some time.
Maybe my comments were slightly overdoing it, but I still maintain that Orban is better than Omnia.
Neither is better than the other. The output is primarlily based on how the units are set up. Unfortunately however, all processing messes up the audio and the only real reason processing is used is to make the sound appear bigger and louder.
If/when DAB+ starts in the UK, it would be an idea to apply no processing at all. Unfortuately this will not be the case, and so whilst bitrates might be better than that currently used on DAB, the audio will still sound crap.
And back with Orban and Omnia - well I wouldn't pay them a single penny for any of their "products". I can achieve the same results using various homemade processing units I have designed for a tiny fraction of the cost.
And back with Orban and Omnia - well I wouldn't pay them a single penny for any of their "products". I can achieve the same results using various homemade processing units I have designed for a tiny fraction of the cost.
No you can't.
Although if anyone's interested in aping Capital's FM sound, I do have an old ALBA midi system in the loft.. I'm pretty sure it's got an auto record level function and stereo EQ... nice!
Listening to Capital Is Coming for the first time since the change, its clear that the processing is horrendous. What on earth have they done to the loud, clear sound of Galaxy?
Is this how Capital will sound? Even some (probably most) community stations sound better than this. Perhaps someone from the Global Academy scheme set it up.
Although if anyone's interested in aping Capital's FM sound, I do have an old ALBA midi system in the loft.. I'm pretty sure it's got an auto record level function and stereo EQ... nice!
haha, I compared it to listening through a budget brand radio a while back.
No this is 'perceptual' listening. It takes a trained ear to tell, just like MP3 artefacts. Im the same way most normal people cannot tell between a 128 MP3 and an Apple Lossless file, nor will the average listener tell radio station processing.
Anyway this isn't to say I don't agree with the points made about the sound itself, it could be better. But thats for Global to decide and not me, it's their TX Chain.
I don't agree that it will have any adverse effect on listenership though. If anything, in some cases, I suspect it will help.
Again this is the medium of radio, pop music radio. It's not hifi. Nor do many of the core audience have an interest in reproduction.
I can't tell naff all difference between 128 MP3 and Apple Loss Less either, but I can sure tell the difference between two different processors.
I'm pretty sure Capital in London didn't sound as bad as this either. When ever I drove up there to DJ and DK was in the mix, the bass was nice!
Ok. Care to elaborate, because the amount of r&d that goes into those units is not exactly inconsiderable and you're claiming you can do the same for 'a tiny fraction' of the cost.
Ok. Care to elaborate, because the amount of r&d that goes into those units is not exactly inconsiderable and you're claiming you can do the same for 'a tiny fraction' of the cost.
Prove it, or I'm going to say 'bullshit'.
It's mainly all hype. The basics of processing remains the same, however if you can convince people you have a better way to do it, people will buy into it.
Sure, lots of R&D goes into the commercial processing units. The units however are over-engineered. They are trying to do what has already been possible for many many years. Sort of like trying to reinvent the wheel.
But truely, the sound produced by any processing unit is subjective. It matters not that the station is using the "latest and greatest" processing unit, or indeed that it has been set up by an untrained engineer (AKA monkey), for the sound output will be altered from the original.
You simply can not beat an unprocessed audio input to an FM transmitter (assuming the audio is of high quality to start with). The same applies to AM, however processing is more suited to AM for PEP reasons, and you're not generally looking for excellent audio quality with the bandwidth limitations on MW and SW.
I maintain what I said - it doesn't matter what you use once you get to a certain grade of processor. The DSP range of units from BW will easily do the same job as their more expensive Orban and Omnia equivalents provided they have been properly set-up.
Like someone at HFM in Harborough said a bit earlier, you can even use a DSP-X, which is a multiband processor which retails for £1,695. With some work, again it will provide a sound comparable to the big boys. There's a DSPX-mini on air at Demon FM in Leicester and it sounds at least as good as, in some cases better than, most small-scale stations I've heard.
And back with Orban and Omnia - well I wouldn't pay them a single penny for any of their "products". I can achieve the same results using various homemade processing units I have designed for a tiny fraction of the cost.
I can kind of see what you are getting at...but the ONLY thing I have seen that can achieve broadcast-quality results for a fraction of the price is Breakaway (a software-based audio processor).
Aside from that - NOTHING can achieve the same results as an Optimod, Omnia, DSPX etc. Sorry, but until you have dealt with audio at hardware or software level (but they're the same, right?) you will have *no* idea of the MILLIONS of floating-point calculations running per second to achieve the various band processing within the multiband system. Factor in peak control, pre-emphasis generation, MPX encoding, maintaining a phase-linear processing path and the hundreds of other parameters required for professional broadcasting and you'll see EXACTLY why these units cost a fortune.
Having said that - if you like audio processing, go and Google Breakaway Broadcast Processor - you will be absolutely *amazed* at the results. Could even be BETTER than an Optimod / Omnia.
Aside from that - NOTHING can achieve the same results as an Optimod, Omnia, DSPX etc. Sorry, but until you have dealt with audio at hardware or software level (but they're the same, right?) you will have *no* idea of the MILLIONS of floating-point calculations running per second to achieve the various band processing within the multiband system. Factor in peak control, pre-emphasis generation, MPX encoding, maintaining a phase-linear processing path and the hundreds of other parameters required for professional broadcasting and you'll see EXACTLY why these units cost a fortune.
But that's just it with these processing units - they are complicated pieces of equipment trying to over-engineer the solution. The reason they get so much rap from engineers is because they mess with the audio so much, that what you get out is a badly distored version of the original. It doesn't matter how many calculations the processor does.... you can not and will not beat the original input.
There are 2 main purposes for these units:
1) To satisy some immature radio boss who mistakenly believes that being the loudest station on the dial will pull in the most listeners.
2) From an engineering point of view to help achieve 100% modulation. Useful in marginal signal conditions
Point 2 above is the only valid reason to use a processing unit. Especially useful for AM broadcasting in particular.
A processing unit typically tries to correct problems that it itself has created. The transmitter itself does the rest. Any additional circutry the processor does was only needed in the first place due to the crap it made out of the original audio input.
With digital broadcasting, there is absolutely no reason to want to use any processing unit at all. The big manufactures of these units however will continue to ride the bandwagon as they know the radio bosses will be all too happy to hand over money.
Comments
It doesn't sound as tiring as AM?? Are you serious?
It is an FM station and sounds completely different to Heart, which is not nearly as fatiguing.
I'm not arguing against heavy processing, just god awful processing. Get a grip man, and a pair of ears while you're about it.
*facepalm*
I dont get the Hearts AGC comment either. Heart on 106 sounds great to my ears.
As for the "i thought it was a community station" comment i can tell you the processing on the one i am involved with (that uses a BW DSPX FM) now sounds 100% better than Leicester Sounds awful mess.
Whoever thinks it sounds good the way it is needs a hearing test
Perfect. Sums things up nicely.
I know a shedload of 'normal' people (who don't work in radio ;-) ) who haven't even battered a wink since the processing changes. Do Galaxy still play Rihanna? Katy Perry? Ah yes, nothing has changed. Sorry - but that IS how the listeners think.
The sound won't change - it was designed like that. Global ARE aware but once again, it was *designed* like that.
Bear in mind that Galaxy / Capital is heavy on reach-based sampling (music rotation alone will tell you that) instead of hours. So yes, the processing IS intense and WILL tire people but so do the rotations - hand in hand. Objective achieved.
Orban is the equivalent to what Heinz is to tomato ketchup. Omnia is ASDA Smartprice.
You'll never get an Omnia sounding as good or better than an Orban. There's just no contest.
So reading between your lines, are you trying to say Gal-ital Dont actually want people listening for long periods of time, incase they notice the very heavy rotation of music ? Lets say, no longer than 20 to 30 mins anyway?
Maybe your right. Heavy rotation of music, heavy rotation of expencive national advertising.
It all makes sence now. They catch them in the car on the way to work, then the work place has some middle of the road station if they could be bothered to pay the stupid PRS for music licence, then they catch them on the way home again with the same tunes and adverts.
by jove, I think we've got it!!!!!!!
Still rubbish though.
Total genius.
Stage 1: Make the music rotation unbearable.
Stage 2: Make the audio unlistenable.
Stage 3: ?????
Stage 4: Profit.
So simple, it's brilliant.
The only question is: Why did no one think of it before?
This has been mentioned a couple of times over and we've sadly been asured this is not the case.
Infact, under no uncertain terms, we've been assured it will continue to sound sh!t for a long time to come.
That is complete and utter nonsense. Totally, patently untrue.
Orban and Omnia are highly-regarded the world over. Both manufacturers have processors on-air at market-leading stations in the world's largest radio markets. It's often a matter of personal taste between the two, but your ketchup analogy is way off the mark.
Omnia 6 is a more expensive processor than the Optimod 8400 it replaced at the Galaxy sites. £12,000 a pop (or thereabouts) is hardly Asda Smartprice.
Both companies make top quality processors. And the reputation of both are subject to the people who ultimately set them at the radio stations.
The Galaxy Optimods were set-up pretty well. The Capital Ominas are not, in my opinion.
"Omnia has been an extremely important part of the KIIS-FM sound... nothing has come even close in providing the full, rich, competitive sound we use to tantalize our listeners." Mike Callaghan, Chief Engineer, KIIS-FM / Los Angeles
I wonder this also from Absolute Radio.
It's hardly outdated. The new Omnia 11 is so new that I'm not even sure if it's on-air anywhere yet-- certainly in this country. Absolute 105.8 perhaps. The Omnia One is a budget processor in a different class to the 6 or 11 - aimed at a different Market. So the 6 is very much today's, major station, major Market offering from Omnia - and will be for some time.
Maybe my comments were slightly overdoing it, but I still maintain that Orban is better than Omnia.
Neither is better than the other. The output is primarlily based on how the units are set up. Unfortunately however, all processing messes up the audio and the only real reason processing is used is to make the sound appear bigger and louder.
If/when DAB+ starts in the UK, it would be an idea to apply no processing at all. Unfortuately this will not be the case, and so whilst bitrates might be better than that currently used on DAB, the audio will still sound crap.
And back with Orban and Omnia - well I wouldn't pay them a single penny for any of their "products". I can achieve the same results using various homemade processing units I have designed for a tiny fraction of the cost.
No you can't.
Although if anyone's interested in aping Capital's FM sound, I do have an old ALBA midi system in the loft.. I'm pretty sure it's got an auto record level function and stereo EQ... nice!
Is this how Capital will sound? Even some (probably most) community stations sound better than this. Perhaps someone from the Global Academy scheme set it up.
haha, I compared it to listening through a budget brand radio a while back.
Bob on though.
I can't tell naff all difference between 128 MP3 and Apple Loss Less either, but I can sure tell the difference between two different processors.
I'm pretty sure Capital in London didn't sound as bad as this either. When ever I drove up there to DJ and DK was in the mix, the bass was nice!
I'm afraid I can.
A lot of stuff can be built for a fraction of the cost, and normally does 10x a better job if designed correctly as CraigC I'm sure can prove.
Ok. Care to elaborate, because the amount of r&d that goes into those units is not exactly inconsiderable and you're claiming you can do the same for 'a tiny fraction' of the cost.
Prove it, or I'm going to say 'bullshit'.
Just need to beef the mic processing up a bit.
It's mainly all hype. The basics of processing remains the same, however if you can convince people you have a better way to do it, people will buy into it.
Sure, lots of R&D goes into the commercial processing units. The units however are over-engineered. They are trying to do what has already been possible for many many years. Sort of like trying to reinvent the wheel.
But truely, the sound produced by any processing unit is subjective. It matters not that the station is using the "latest and greatest" processing unit, or indeed that it has been set up by an untrained engineer (AKA monkey), for the sound output will be altered from the original.
You simply can not beat an unprocessed audio input to an FM transmitter (assuming the audio is of high quality to start with). The same applies to AM, however processing is more suited to AM for PEP reasons, and you're not generally looking for excellent audio quality with the bandwidth limitations on MW and SW.
Like someone at HFM in Harborough said a bit earlier, you can even use a DSP-X, which is a multiband processor which retails for £1,695. With some work, again it will provide a sound comparable to the big boys. There's a DSPX-mini on air at Demon FM in Leicester and it sounds at least as good as, in some cases better than, most small-scale stations I've heard.
I can kind of see what you are getting at...but the ONLY thing I have seen that can achieve broadcast-quality results for a fraction of the price is Breakaway (a software-based audio processor).
Aside from that - NOTHING can achieve the same results as an Optimod, Omnia, DSPX etc. Sorry, but until you have dealt with audio at hardware or software level (but they're the same, right?) you will have *no* idea of the MILLIONS of floating-point calculations running per second to achieve the various band processing within the multiband system. Factor in peak control, pre-emphasis generation, MPX encoding, maintaining a phase-linear processing path and the hundreds of other parameters required for professional broadcasting and you'll see EXACTLY why these units cost a fortune.
Having said that - if you like audio processing, go and Google Breakaway Broadcast Processor - you will be absolutely *amazed* at the results. Could even be BETTER than an Optimod / Omnia.
But that's just it with these processing units - they are complicated pieces of equipment trying to over-engineer the solution. The reason they get so much rap from engineers is because they mess with the audio so much, that what you get out is a badly distored version of the original. It doesn't matter how many calculations the processor does.... you can not and will not beat the original input.
There are 2 main purposes for these units:
1) To satisy some immature radio boss who mistakenly believes that being the loudest station on the dial will pull in the most listeners.
2) From an engineering point of view to help achieve 100% modulation. Useful in marginal signal conditions
Point 2 above is the only valid reason to use a processing unit. Especially useful for AM broadcasting in particular.
A processing unit typically tries to correct problems that it itself has created. The transmitter itself does the rest. Any additional circutry the processor does was only needed in the first place due to the crap it made out of the original audio input.
With digital broadcasting, there is absolutely no reason to want to use any processing unit at all. The big manufactures of these units however will continue to ride the bandwagon as they know the radio bosses will be all too happy to hand over money.