Police granted permission to test drivers saliva for drugs

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  • AneechikAneechik Posts: 20,208
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    The principle is fine, but as usual the practice is not.

    The original expert proposal was that the limits should be set based on evidence of impairment, but the government rejected this in favour of setting the limits at the lowest detectable point, which basically means any detectable amount regardless of whether the driver is actually under its influence or not.

    This is especially relevant in the case of cannabis, which stays in the body long after its influence has gone. The government has yet to comment on that, and probably won't, though the Department of Transport has actually admitted the proposal is intended to stop all drug consumption before driving, rather than to stop driving under the influence.
  • CitySlickerCitySlicker Posts: 10,414
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    I'm interested in cannabis use testing as I reckon this will be the biggest one people get caught out on. The limits are set out here - http://www.roadtrafficdefencelawyers.co.uk/new-drug-driving-law-march-2015/

    Delta–9–Tetrahydrocannabinol (Cannabis and Cannabinol), 2 µg/L - how much is that? Would a person consume that amount normally through one joint for instance?

    (FWIW I'm all for this law, regardless of moral arguments of taking drugs, anything that keeps drivers more focussed has to be a good thing).
  • DarthchaffinchDarthchaffinch Posts: 7,558
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    reglip wrote: »
    http://norml.org/library/item/marijuana-and-driving-a-review-of-the-scientific-evidence

    If you have access to journals I can find some if you want if not this will have to do

    Not an unbiased source at all.....

    Jesus wept.
  • KarlSomethingKarlSomething Posts: 3,529
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    A new law, which comes into force in March 2015, makes it illegal to drive with certain drugs in the body over a specified limit.

    Currently, police have to prove the driver was impaired due to drug use.

    If the levels measured for actually do significantly impair driving, then fair enough. But otherwise it becomes another way of oppressing people for using drugs on their own time.
  • reglipreglip Posts: 5,268
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    Not an unbiased source at all.....

    Jesus wept.

    Obviously difficult to find an unbiased source on the internet who else would host such material other than those with an interest in reading it? Feel free to follow their citations and read the studies they have summarised yourself
  • DarthchaffinchDarthchaffinch Posts: 7,558
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    reglip wrote: »
    Obviously difficult to find an unbiased source on the internet who else would host such material other than those with an interest in reading it? Feel free to follow their citations and read the studies they have summarised yourself

    Peer reviews journals per chance????

    Also, and stupidly, personal experience- small amounts are extremely dangerous. If you're caught drug-driving you're a cretin who deserves everything they get (including losing job etc)
  • CSJBCSJB Posts: 6,188
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    Slowing down, because you're not capable of driving properly is hardly an excuse to allow driving whilst under the influence of drugs. You seem to be missing the point.

    Indeed, I smoke a couple of joints most nights but I would never drive whilst stoned because I know I'm not safe.
    I don't drive until the next day after I've slept.
    Aneechik wrote: »
    The principle is fine, but as usual the practice is not.

    The original expert proposal was that the limits should be set based on evidence of impairment, but the government rejected this in favour of setting the limits at the lowest detectable point, which basically means any detectable amount regardless of whether the driver is actually under its influence or not.

    This is especially relevant in the case of cannabis, which stays in the body long after its influence has gone. The government has yet to comment on that, and probably won't, though the Department of Transport has actually admitted the proposal is intended to stop all drug consumption before driving, rather than to stop driving under the influence.

    So, less about safety more about moralising.
    Looks like I'm ****ed, I better start drinking the hard stuff again instead.>:(
  • CosinCosin Posts: 765
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    reglip wrote: »
    Cannabis generally leads to safer driving so I dont see why that should be tested for

    I'd have to agree with this. There's not much difference between a stoned driver and an OAP out for a Sunday drive. Annoying yes, unsafe?...hardly
  • SaturnVSaturnV Posts: 11,519
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    CSJB wrote: »
    Indeed, I smoke a couple of joints most nights but I would never drive whilst stoned because I know I'm not safe.
    I don't drive until the next day after I've slept.



    So, less about safety more about moralising.
    Looks like I'm ****ed, I better start drinking the hard stuff again instead.>:(

    Well at least you'll be mellow about being arrested and charged and maybe losing your job.
  • SomnerSomner Posts: 9,412
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    reglip wrote: »
    Cannabis generally leads to safer driving so I dont see why that should be tested for

    What a load of rubbish. Well done for posting up a completely unbalanced source too. ;-)
    reglip wrote: »
    The fact is that people who drive when stoned slow down their cars and drive more carefully perhaps even leading to a safer driver when compared to someone not intoxicated. Here is a video although not entirely scientific with only one driver from 5th gear a few years ago

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5C0xdwbg_4

    Most drink drivers will slow down too (I've followed and caught enough), that doesn't make them more careful, it means they're trying to compensate for their impairment.

    The current method of testing drug drivers - field impairment tests - is far from ideal.
  • James1953James1953 Posts: 4,840
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    I would have thought that this applies to prescribed drugs as well ?

    This kind of thing seems to go under the radar.I've had several arguments with family/friends who think it's OK to drive whilst taking medication
  • archiverarchiver Posts: 13,011
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    James1953 wrote: »
    I would have thought that this applies to prescribed drugs as well ?

    This kind of thing seems to go under the radar.I've had several arguments with family/friends who think it's OK to drive whilst taking medication
    It seems to be the legal status of a drug which makes it dangerous. In countries where cannabis is illegal it is found to be a contributing cause of accidents, but in all American states where it has been decriminalised - deaths by road traffic accident (and suicides) have significantly reduced, compared to those where it remains illegal.

    Those who self medicate with illegal drugs, in order to more easily cope with stressful situations like driving, will not be tolerated, while "Our approach does not unduly penalise drivers who have taken properly prescribed medicines". In many cases those same legal medicines are so debilitating that users find they can't drive, whereas they gain enough relief, using illegal cannabis, to be able to.

    There will be fewer good drivers on our roads after March 2015. :(
  • Andy2Andy2 Posts: 11,949
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    reglip wrote: »
    Cannabis generally leads to safer driving so I dont see why that should be tested for

    No it doesn't. It makes people dopey and slows their reactions. Sheesh. Reminds me of the boy racers who used to swear a few pints made them a better driver. In their heads they became Bodie & Doyle, but to everyone else they were death on wheels.
  • Safi74Safi74 Posts: 5,580
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    CSJB wrote: »
    Indeed, I smoke a couple of joints most nights but I would never drive whilst stoned because I know I'm not safe.
    I don't drive until the next day after I've slept. So, less about safety more about moralising.
    Looks like I'm ****ed, I better start drinking the hard stuff again instead.>:(

    Looks like it!!! You're doomed!!!

    So are all of those who do the weekend jaunts to Amsterdam and spend the weekend in coffee shops!

    Or those who meet up occasionally with old uni mates and spend the night recreating their fresher years!😜

    All doomed!!!!
  • Safi74Safi74 Posts: 5,580
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    James1953 wrote: »
    I would have thought that this applies to prescribed drugs as well ?

    This kind of thing seems to go under the radar.I've had several arguments with family/friends who think it's OK to drive whilst taking medication

    The problem is that the impact they have on each person is variable. I've got a friend who gets woozy after half a Co-codamol, but I regularly take several a day along with Ibuprofen when I am in severe pain and it they don't make me woozy at all.
  • Safi74Safi74 Posts: 5,580
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    archiver wrote: »
    It seems to be the legal status of a drug which makes it dangerous. In countries where cannabis is illegal it is found to be a contributing cause of accidents, but in all American states where it has been decriminalised - deaths by road traffic accident (and suicides) have significantly reduced, compared to those where it remains illegal.(

    That's very interesting.
  • welwynrosewelwynrose Posts: 33,666
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    I know people that have been permanently stoned for the last 30 years - that is normal for them
  • Deep PurpleDeep Purple Posts: 63,255
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    James1953 wrote: »
    I would have thought that this applies to prescribed drugs as well ?

    This kind of thing seems to go under the radar.I've had several arguments with family/friends who think it's OK to drive whilst taking medication

    At the moment, and for many years, it has been an offence to drive whilst unfit through drink or drugs, and that includes prescribed, or any legal drug. It is about the impairment, not what caused it.
  • Vix77Vix77 Posts: 529
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    This can only be a good thing, there's no tolerance to drunk drivers and even some medication you cannot drive so if they crack (pardon the pun) on drugged drivers then the roads will be a safer place
  • annette kurtenannette kurten Posts: 39,543
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    Vix77 wrote: »
    This can only be a good thing, there's no tolerance to drunk drivers and even some medication you cannot drive so if they crack (pardon the pun) on drugged drivers then the roads will be a safer place

    the problem with this test is that cannabis can be detected in saliva for up to ten days afterwards.
  • DaisyBumblerootDaisyBumbleroot Posts: 24,763
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    I can't speak for others, but I couldn't drive a car when I'm stoned.

    I can when I am not though, but seeing as drugs tests show positive for THC metabolites as much as a month later, does this mean I could be done for "drug driving" the day after a smoke when I am not at all stoned?
  • UKMikeyUKMikey Posts: 28,728
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    I'm glad I don't drive. Sounds like this legislation has very little to do with evidence of impairment.
  • bluebladeblueblade Posts: 88,859
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    http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30569180

    Ministers have now just granted permission for the police to use this new roadside technology within days .

    Pleased that drug driving will become easier to test for and overtime routine like drink driving testing.

    Excellent news.
  • Deep PurpleDeep Purple Posts: 63,255
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    the problem with this test is that cannabis can be detected in saliva for up to ten days afterwards.

    At the moment there is no legislation that places a limit on a specific drug, although there will be next year, and we need to know the details of that before we can say anything.

    This test is a guide, much like the roadside breath test procedure, and gives grounds to suspect an offence. At the moment, it still has to be proved that a person is unfit to drive due to drugs, and that is far from simple.
  • annette kurtenannette kurten Posts: 39,543
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    At the moment there is no legislation that places a limit on a specific drug, although there will be next year, and we need to know the details of that before we can say anything.

    This test is a guide, much like the roadside breath test procedure, and gives grounds to suspect an offence. At the moment, it still has to be proved that a person is unfit to drive due to drugs, and that is far from simple.

    the problem again, is that they are using the kits "within the next few days" and "Forces will be encouraged to use the devices "as quickly as possible", the spokesperson added."

    cannabis stays in the blood for a couple of days too, i`d like to know how they are going to be assessing it.
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