You don't see it as possible because you know nothing about aircraft. I do.
The plane could be at 60,000ft and still land with no engines and power.
Yes you "know" so much you even get the altitude wrong.
The only airliner certified to fly at 60,000ft was Concorde and that's been gone almost 11 years now. The 777 whilst certified to fly up to 45,000ft only flies at 43,000ft. That's not according to me either.....that's Boeings 'spec', and as they build the bloody things i'm of the opinion that they actually do know what they are talking about.
Another factor which may complicate search efforts is whether the spoilers were deployed, assuming the pilot lost consciousness before retracting them. Presumably this would have a bearing on distance covered before fuel was spent.
The plane was at 35,000ft. This would have been done at about before 10,000ft or so.
Oh I think I was confusing flaps & spoilers, I meant to ask about spoilers. So assuming no spoilers were deployed as it came to land, would that likely mean it would have been going to fast & therefore break up as it hit the water?
There's no mention of deploying spoilers before ditching on the checklist. It does suggest full flap.
Spoilers are used after landing to help reduce speed, or in the air when descending and maintaining airspeed, for example.
Aircraft, especially large civilian passenger aircraft are designed very much with the idea that even with no humans at the control, assuming no massive damage or system failure by default they'll sort of fly as close to straight and level as possible.
Even without any engines they tend to glide, which means that unless the aircraft either blows up/breaks up in mid air, or there is active input of some kind to push the aircraft nose down or into a stall (and no recovery), it'll likely keep going along losing height...
Especially if the pilots or someone managed to either turn the autopilot on, or didn't disengage it when whatever happened happened.
There was an aircraft a few years ago where the ATC lost contact, a flight of fighters were sent up to try and work out what happened and were basically left to watch helplessly as the aircraft flew on for several hours with the pilots either dead or unconscious due to what turned out to be a failure in the cabin pressure system and them not managing to get the aircraft down low enough fast enough, or put on their masks in time (cabin pressure warning systems have a history of failing for one reason or another).
I think in the end it crashed into the side of a mountain.
This is a clip from what was an interesting documentary from Channel 4 a few years ago. They took a scrap 727, fitted it with radio control and purposely crash landed it. Needless to say there wasn't much left after.
The plane was at 35,000ft. This would have been done at about before 10,000ft or so.
I don't have them to hand, but I think the checklist for emergency descent suggests deploying spoilers immediately.
If there had been a decompression or something similar, it's possible the spoilers were deployed, and the pilot/s lost consciousness shortly afterwards.
Yes you "know" so much you even get the altitude wrong.
The only airliner certified to fly at 60,000ft was Concorde and that's been gone almost 11 years now. The 777 whilst certified to fly up to 45,000ft only flies at 43,000ft. That's not according to me either.....that's Boeings 'spec', and as they build the bloody things i'm of the opinion that they actually do know what they are talking about.
Talk about not paying attention!! I don't think there is anything you could tell me about commercial aviation that i don't already know.
I know the specs thanks. It was an example that the plane could have been at any height. 60,000 was of course an exaggeration. But the fact still stands.
To keep you happy then, if the plane was at it's rated 45,000ft, it could still land perfectly fine with no power or engines using the RAT. It's dangerous and has many variables, but it can be done.
I don't have them to hand, but I think the checklist for emergency descent suggests deploying spoilers immediately.
If there had been a decompression or something similar, it's possible the spoilers were deployed, and the pilot/s lost consciousness shortly afterwards.
Yeah sorry, i misunderstood!! That's what i get for watching telly at the same time as being on here!!
The first thing a pilot does in that situation is descend as fast as possible with the use of the spoilers.
On what basis is it a strong possibility? Where have they managed to land it, where they'll be able to refuel it for a future flight, without anyone noticing?
It's very possible the plane was directed to an undisclosed location after the transponder was switched off and it landed, I would say this is probably what happened. I don't believe it crashed.
Another thing that is puzzling me about this Inmarsat "pinging"
We're looking at someone - rogue pilot or hijacker, who has the knowledge to switch off the ADS-B system, switch off the data transmissions to Malaysian Airlines, Boeing and Rolls Royce..................................yet somehow fails to know about Inmarsat?
I don't have them to hand, but I think the checklist for emergency descent suggests deploying spoilers immediately.
If there had been a decompression or something similar, it's possible the spoilers were deployed, and the pilot/s lost consciousness shortly afterwards.
Would not the first item on the checklist be......................................."don oxygen masks" ?
To me it's looking increasingly likely that it could be terrorists. I think that China know that and that's part of the reason why they've tightened plane and airport security. China are playing their cards close to their chest. The scariest thing is that we now have a missing plane which if it has been hijacked, could be used at a later date. If it was hijacked, the hijackers obviously know what they're doing as they managed to get it off the radar, and seemingly then keep it flying around for another few hours. The thought of it being used at a later date is very scary. For all of this to happen though it would surely take years of planning...such a huge operation. That's what terrorists do though. It would have an absolutely huge impact if they kept it hidden and kept quiet for a few months and then suddenly a group came forward asking for a random or something. I don't know, there's just way to much secrecy and I do think it's looking more and more likely that it's terrorist related.
Sharp Changes in Altitude and Course After Jet Lost Contact
SEPANG, Malaysia — Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 experienced significant changes in altitude after it lost contact with ground control, and altered its course more than once as if still under the command of a pilot, American officials and others familiar with the investigation said Friday.
Radar signals recorded by the Malaysian military appear to show the missing airliner climbing to 45,000 feet, above the approved altitude limit for a Boeing 777-200, soon after it disappeared from civilian radar and made a sharp turn to the west, according to a preliminary assessment by a person familiar with the data.
The radar track, which the Malaysian government has not released but says it has provided to the United States and China, then shows the plane descending unevenly to an altitude of 23,000 feet, below normal cruising levels, as it approached the densely populated island of Penang, one of the country’s largest. There, the plane turned from a southwest-bound course, climbed to a higher altitude and flew northwest over the Strait of Malacca toward the Indian Ocean.
Investigators have also examined data transmitted from the plane’s Rolls-Royce engines that shows it descending 40,000 feet in the space of a minute, according to a senior American official briefed on the investigation. But investigators do not believe the readings are accurate because the aircraft would likely haven taken longer to fall such a distance.
“A lot of stock cannot be put in the altitude data” sent from the engines, one official said. “A lot of this doesn’t make sense.”
The data, while incomplete and difficult to interpret, could still provide critical new clues as investigators try to determine what transpired on Flight 370, which disappeared early last Saturday carrying 239 people from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing.
But it isn't. There's still no information so it's full of speculation and little more than a time line of all the stuff we've heard about so far.
And it is going to mention the 'out there' theories, so perhaps Channel 5 searched through this thread beforehand.
And one lady just said she wasn't going to speculate. Erm, I think that's what you're meant to do. Not much else you can do is there?!
This will as you suggest be a pointless padded-out programme and will contain nothing more or less than the stuff we've read in this thread. It's a blatant and pointless "cash-in" programme. If anything new and firm comes out of it, I will eat my hat - but others will have to tell me as I have better things to do than watch such drivel.
Indian airplanes are searching a remote archipelago of mostly uninhabited islands for traces of missing flight MH370, an Indian military official said on Friday.
The 572 Andaman and Nicobar islands stretch over 447 miles north to south and 32 miles east to west, the Wall Street Journal notes. Far from the Indian mainland, the Indian islands lie closer to Myanmar and Malaysia.
From the Wall Street Journal:
"Only 37 of the islands are inhabited, the rest are dense tropical jungle, and the aircraft is using heat-seeking devices to conduct the search," Col. Singh told The Wall Street Journal. "The challenge of looking over land is that the islands are covered in very dense forest and most of them are hilly, nothing has shown up as of now.
Comments
The only airliner certified to fly at 60,000ft was Concorde and that's been gone almost 11 years now. The 777 whilst certified to fly up to 45,000ft only flies at 43,000ft. That's not according to me either.....that's Boeings 'spec', and as they build the bloody things i'm of the opinion that they actually do know what they are talking about.
The plane was at 35,000ft. This would have been done at about before 10,000ft or so.
There's no mention of deploying spoilers before ditching on the checklist. It does suggest full flap.
Spoilers are used after landing to help reduce speed, or in the air when descending and maintaining airspeed, for example.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EN10RuZ4Bwg
I don't have them to hand, but I think the checklist for emergency descent suggests deploying spoilers immediately.
If there had been a decompression or something similar, it's possible the spoilers were deployed, and the pilot/s lost consciousness shortly afterwards.
Talk about not paying attention!! I don't think there is anything you could tell me about commercial aviation that i don't already know.
I know the specs thanks. It was an example that the plane could have been at any height. 60,000 was of course an exaggeration. But the fact still stands.
To keep you happy then, if the plane was at it's rated 45,000ft, it could still land perfectly fine with no power or engines using the RAT. It's dangerous and has many variables, but it can be done.
Yeah sorry, i misunderstood!!
The first thing a pilot does in that situation is descend as fast as possible with the use of the spoilers.
On what basis is it a strong possibility? Where have they managed to land it, where they'll be able to refuel it for a future flight, without anyone noticing?
We're looking at someone - rogue pilot or hijacker, who has the knowledge to switch off the ADS-B system, switch off the data transmissions to Malaysian Airlines, Boeing and Rolls Royce..................................yet somehow fails to know about Inmarsat?
Stretching credulity a tad, in my opinion.
Would not the first item on the checklist be......................................."don oxygen masks" ?
But it isn't. There's still no information so it's full of speculation and little more than a time line of all the stuff we've heard about so far.
And it is going to mention the 'out there' theories, so perhaps Channel 5 searched through this thread beforehand.
And one lady just said she wasn't going to speculate. Erm, I think that's what you're meant to do. Not much else you can do is there?!
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/15/world/asia/malaysia-military-radar.html
This will as you suggest be a pointless padded-out programme and will contain nothing more or less than the stuff we've read in this thread. It's a blatant and pointless "cash-in" programme. If anything new and firm comes out of it, I will eat my hat - but others will have to tell me as I have better things to do than watch such drivel.
The 572 Andaman and Nicobar islands stretch over 447 miles north to south and 32 miles east to west, the Wall Street Journal notes. Far from the Indian mainland, the Indian islands lie closer to Myanmar and Malaysia.
From the Wall Street Journal:
"Only 37 of the islands are inhabited, the rest are dense tropical jungle, and the aircraft is using heat-seeking devices to conduct the search," Col. Singh told The Wall Street Journal. "The challenge of looking over land is that the islands are covered in very dense forest and most of them are hilly, nothing has shown up as of now.
"Structural failure is a problem from the 1940s". Really?
"Modern maintenance is done as well as it should be"
(this was less than a year ago http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-22717943)
These experts come out with as much rubbish as some of the posts on this thread.
What?....
I reckon the pilot just lost it and decided to go off course/ just do his own thing.
Eh? What are you talking about?
PM me next weeks lottery numbers please