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The Big Holby City Thread (Part 5)


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Old 07-06-2016, 22:49
shya100
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Linden was 6 months before Penny, end of season 12 (Oct 10) and Penny was the half way point of season 13 (April 11). There was a point when pretty much everybody left in a coffin (season 8/9 being a particularly bad time with Tricia, Diane, Charles,baby Paris, Owen's wife, Leo, Gina though to be fair, Gina's whole storyline was about her death really) but they seem to have eased up on that now - thankfully. Character deaths do start to lose their impact if done too frequently.

It does have to be said though that they have never done a real, slow fradual decline into death over months. Yes, several characters have had a terminal (or possible terminal) diagnosis given months before their death and we've seen them come to terms with it, degenerate to a degree, have experimental surgery but the end has always actually been quick - either a rapid detioration (like Arthur) donight or them taking matters into their own hands with a 'make or break' operation which went wrong (like Tara), assisted suicide (Gina) or some other, unforseen accident like a car crash (Tricia straight after her make or break surgery was successful so a happy future beckoned). Even Faye's son died due to a mistake in his Meds, not his disease.

Soaps, even a medical based one like Holby, are very squemish about showing a death involving weeks/months of being bed ridden and losing control of bodily functions like incontinence amongst other things.

There is a recent death we've forgotten, Bonnie 2 years ago. But again, she was a character brought in for a 6 month storyline, always destined to die and most people didn't like her so easy to understand people not remembering....
That was it so many people left around linens time. Penny came later. Bonnie wasn't really a character character. It's always this time of year people leave: jessie, affanga sister, now Arthur. Bets Zosia and Dominic go next year.

A long protracted story, even with a terminal illness and what it does to the people around you is not something I would want to see on TV. There were fragments of reality in what it is like in Arthur storyline. There were fragments of truth in Tara's story of living with a time bomb. And there was a great deal of Truth in Ollie, as a young person, dealing with the lose of his sister and then his wife.
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Old 07-06-2016, 22:51
Brummy Girl
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Just wanted to add my congratulations for a great episode. It was very touching and I was sad to see Diggers go. Not sure whether I would want an audience whilst I took my last breath but it was lovely to see them all there at the end.

Zosia's reaction was heartbreaking and then no music at the end rounded off the sadness of it all.
That's the part for me that I personally didn't like, them all stood in the doorway whilst Morven was saying her goodbyes and then all gathered around the bed at the end.

They had already showed how much they loved Diggers with the collage poster and the dance routine so to have them all gawping at a private moment didn't sit right with me.
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Old 07-06-2016, 22:56
kitkat1971
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But why kill him off. Why not just leave when your contract is up
Many actors prefer to have their character be killed off for various reasons.

One, as somebody mentioned, it gives them something to sink their teeth into acting wise, show their range. Richard Attenborough has moaned that his whole career he never got to a death scene and always wanted one

Two, it is more likely to stick in viewers memories which means they are impressed by them but also know they have definitely gone and won't be coming back (unless it is EE these days) which is thought to help them be accepted as different characters.

Three, Casting directors are more likely to hire them, not fearing that they'll leave and go back to the 'safe' option of their old role.

Four, They don't want the question of "would you ever go back to such and such role" to come up in every interview because there is no 'good' answer. If you say "no, I've moved on" you upset fans, it is reported you have got 'too big for your boots' and turned your back on the 'show that made you'. If you say "maybe" so as not to offend, it gets reported everywhere that you're on your way back. Which again, can impact future career as casting agents consider you to be too associated with a role and "there are rumours you want to go back".

So, for many reasons many actors prefer a definitive 'end' as it makes it easier to move on.

Others like the safety net it can provide of the "door being left open" if things don't work out with other roles or just love their character so much they don't want them killed.

From the creative point of view, a death is always going to be meatier to write than just handing in their notice and leaving on their final day. So, generally they'll prefer it unless they consider a character so important that they want to bring them back as soon as the actor changes their mind and will keep asking them back.
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Old 07-06-2016, 22:57
shya100
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............. almost perfect, just spoiled briefly for me by irritation at Zosia's rudeness to Jac, though I do realise she had been egged on by her psychopath father.
She was shouting at herself. She can't bare how she is behaving. I can't believe Ollie isn't shaking her. He really is showing her alot of patience and support. If she let's him go she is a fool. She isn't Jac, and I hope she sees that.
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Old 07-06-2016, 22:59
Little Star
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Am I right that Mo and Raf were the only permanent cast member who didn't appear in tonight's episode?
It would have been nice if the whole cast were included. I get it with Mo as she and Digby had little interaction, but Digby and Raf were pretty good mates when they were on AAU together. A real life scene with the trio together would have been nice too. However, I'm really picking at straws here as it really was just fantastic the way it was. Best episode of holby ever.
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Old 07-06-2016, 23:06
shya100
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Am I right that Mo and Raf were the only permanent cast member who didn't appear in tonight's episode?
It would have been nice if the whole cast were included. I get it with Mo as she and Digby had little interaction, but Digby and Raf were pretty good mates when they were on AAU together. A real life scene with the trio together would have been nice too. However, I'm really picking at straws here as it really was just fantastic the way it was. Best episode of holby ever.
I have been really upset that Zosia wasn't there for him. I thought the depiction of her inability to cope was raw and s isn't shy away from making her seem unlikeable whole also empathising with her. I liked she was there in his dream but if I catch a an episode of the trio in their f1 days I will be sad thinking about it. Bit like, how the Ollie and Penny ending devasted me.
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Old 07-06-2016, 23:16
kitkat1971
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That was it so many people left around linens time. Penny came later. Bonnie wasn't really a character character. It's always this time of year people leave: jessie, affanga sister, now Arthur. Bets Zosia and Dominic go next year.

A long protracted story, even with a terminal illness and what it does to the people around you is not something I would want to see on TV. There were fragments of reality in what it is like in Arthur storyline. There were fragments of truth in Tara's story of living with a time bomb. And there was a great deal of Truth in Ollie, as a young person, dealing with the lose of his sister and then his wife.
Yes, I agree with you.

For all i understand the sentiment that it does people that have actually gone through it / are going through a terminal illness or nursing somebody through a terminal a disservice by not showing just how dreadful and bleak it can be, I do absolutely understand why they don't show it. Whilst shows like Holby can and should inform, especially on things like organ donation, it is primarily an entertainment show and examining it in that detail would be quite distressing. If you are going through it, or have recently experienced it (as the bereaved) you probably don't want to watch it. Even with Adrienne 2 years ago, we didn't see her day to day life at home with Serena, she had just got worse each time she appeared.

That said, as i also discussed re EE' recent storyline with Pegggy, i would like to see a positive representation of what Paliative care is available at the end re medication and Hospice care as it might comfort a lot of people facing that scenario - to show that whilst of course it is awful, there is help available to ease the situation for everybody.

Sorry, that got a bit general.

I really didn't like everybody crowing into the room as he died. It made me feel like he was an exhibit in a zoo and somehow robbed the scene (and him) of the dignity it should have had. They had already said goodbye, they've seen dozens of people die, give him, and his wife privacy. Wait outside for her perhaps, but that should have been it. Morven, Dom, perhaps Hansenn - that should have been it no matter how much other people loved him. It wasn't about them.
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Old 07-06-2016, 23:33
Glanbraint
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Very moving but I too didn't like all the staff gawping in his final scenes.
I found it quite distracting, and unrealistic and felt like telling them to do one.
A lump in the throat when Jac went straight to Zosia at the end.
All in all though a very poignant episode.
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Old 07-06-2016, 23:52
kitkat1971
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Am I right that Mo and Raf were the only permanent cast member who didn't appear in tonight's episode?
It would have been nice if the whole cast were included. I get it with Mo as she and Digby had little interaction, but Digby and Raf were pretty good mates when they were on AAU together. A real life scene with the trio together would have been nice too. However, I'm really picking at straws here as it really was just fantastic the way it was. Best episode of holby ever.
True, and as i mentioned above, they probably do all know each other more than we've seen. But, they didn't know at the start of the day that Arthur and Morven were planning on going travelling, let alone that he was going to die so there would be no reason for Mo and Raf to be there if not on shift. Yes, they'd planned their dance thing but if Mo and Raf are on nights, realistically they wouldn't come in, in the middle of their 'night' to do that, especially as I say, they didn't know it was going to be the last time they'd ever see him

Of course it would have spoilt the ending to do it this way, but they could have shown the shift change, with Raf and Mo arriving and being told what had happened.

Whilst it is nice to have all the cast involved, sometimes i think it removes the 4th wall as it becomes about the cast saying bye to their friend/colleague rather than the fictional situation. I felt that a little bit about elliot's final scene with the the crutch arch and characters like Morven (with loose hair which we've never seen in the show) who hadn't appeared in the episode suddenly being there in civvies. It was clearly the actors, rather than the characters, if that makes any sense which took me out of the moment a little. I felt the same about Peggy's final episodes in EE for those who watch it, it was more about the cast and crew saying goodbye to Barbara Windsor than the death of a fictional character.
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Old 07-06-2016, 23:54
DJ Jimmy
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Just adding to the sentiments about today's episode. I thought it was excellent.

Digby was great and his relationship with Dom in particular was an absolute joy to watch over the last couple of years.

The great thing was that even though it was mainly about Arthur, everyone had a chance to shine.

Hansen is brilliant. The small chinks in his cold exterior were so exposed, from dancing around to tearing up and small details like calling Arthur and Morven by their first names were brilliant.

Zosia coping in her own way whilst battling Jac was typical, and Jac showed great heart with that hug at the end when Zosia was particularly vulnerable.

Cameos from Malick, Chantelle and (bizarrely) Ethan were nice touches (especially Chantelle).

The Dom and Digby friendship has been wonderful and this was a lovely way to close it.

I know not everyone liked Morven with Digby, but I do think they worked together well and thankfully, his finale was not all about them as a couple.

Lovely touches from Ric and Sacha too, and all in all, a fantastic episode. I loved it.
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Old 08-06-2016, 00:09
sarahj1986
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long time Holby lover (I have posted in here before) but I do dip in and out. I've been watching odd episodes recently, last week they said that tonight's would be a good one and it didn't disappoint. Great seeing Chantelle and Malik back but at the same time makes me sad that they are no longer there.

Floods of tears for me, really well acted
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Old 08-06-2016, 00:10
Little Star
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True, and as i mentioned above, they probably do all know each other more than we've seen. But, they didn't know at the start of the day that Arthur and Morven were planning on going travelling, let alone that he was going to die so there would be no reason for Mo and Raf to be there if not on shift. Yes, they'd planned their dance thing but if Mo and Raf are on nights, realistically they wouldn't come in, in the middle of their 'night' to do that, especially as I say, they didn't know it was going to be the last time they'd ever see him

Of course it would have spoilt the ending to do it this way, but they could have shown the shift change, with Raf and Mo arriving and being told what had happened.

Whilst it is nice to have all the cast involved, sometimes i think it removes the 4th wall as it becomes about the cast saying bye to their friend/colleague rather than the fictional situation. I felt that a little bit about elliot's final scene with the the crutch arch and characters like Morven (with loose hair which we've never seen in the show) who hadn't appeared in the episode suddenly being there in civvies. It was clearly the actors, rather than the characters, if that makes any sense which took me out of the moment a little. I felt the same about Peggy's final episodes in EE for those who watch it, it was more about the cast and crew saying goodbye to Barbara Windsor than the death of a fictional character.
Yes I know what you mean. Whilst I thought tonight's was absolutely fantastic, I feel that the scene at the end would have been even more moving if the other characters had backed away and left just Morven and Dom with him. Although it was still extremely moving as it was.

I thought the same with Peggy in the vic in EE. The scenes with the relatively new characters who would barely have known her were unnecessary. Those did seem like more of a nod from the newer actors to Barbara Windsor, than to Peggy, who was essentially a former landlady of their local who they didn't really know.
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Old 08-06-2016, 00:28
shya100
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True, and as i mentioned above, they probably do all know each other more than we've seen. But, they didn't know at the start of the day that Arthur and Morven were planning on going travelling, let alone that he was going to die so there would be no reason for Mo and Raf to be there if not on shift. Yes, they'd planned their dance thing but if Mo and Raf are on nights, realistically they wouldn't come in, in the middle of their 'night' to do that, especially as I say, they didn't know it was going to be the last time they'd ever see him

Of course it would have spoilt the ending to do it this way, but they could have shown the shift change, with Raf and Mo arriving and being told what had happened.

Whilst it is nice to have all the cast involved, sometimes i think it removes the 4th wall as it becomes about the cast saying bye to their friend/colleague rather than the fictional situation. I felt that a little bit about elliot's final scene with the the crutch arch and characters like Morven (with loose hair which we've never seen in the show) who hadn't appeared in the episode suddenly being there in civvies. It was clearly the actors, rather than the characters, if that makes any sense which took me out of the moment a little. I felt the same about Peggy's final episodes in EE for those who watch it, it was more about the cast and crew saying goodbye to Barbara Windsor than the death of a fictional character.
Elliot's last scene was very much the actors. They weren't even behaving like their characters. I liked it though. I didn't mind how he died. In my experience of hospices the nurses always stay with you anyway...at the back.
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Old 08-06-2016, 01:04
peppermint_aero
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Heartbreaking Never cried like that at the tv before, it was so well done.

Loved the light hearted bits - Hansen to me is the closest we have ever come to Mayer and I still smile whenever he says 'Walk with me' He was brilliant tonight in both the dance sequence and when Arthur collapsed, just to throw both extremes in!

Chantelle and Malik were great touches (though I am surprised how friendly Malik was with Dom!!) as was the hug with Jac

Only one thing jarred with me - I assumed the audience had left the room for those last, heartbreaking, moments with Morven and her husband. Then the camera pans around and nope, there they all are, just standing there gaping - that just seemed completely out of place. I think two or three key ones should have stayed - with the others visibly being in the corridor background.

Silent credits unexpected but perfect - and deserved. The episode was so good I came to see if there was a Holby thread.
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Old 08-06-2016, 07:23
bel110
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It was incredibly emotional and very well done.

Like others I have never really warmed to the Morven Aurthur relationship but it suddenly worked and I thought Morven was really really good - both the actress and character ... She didn't take over the moment but she conveyed the emotion of the moment perfectly and it was so sad. When he squeezed her hand and she said 'I know' was particularly heart wrenching.
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Old 08-06-2016, 07:43
LakieLady
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What next for Rob Ostlere, I wonder? He really is an excellent actor and I'd like to see more of him.
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Old 08-06-2016, 08:00
davejc64
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I was hoping when all those people came into the room right at the end that they would all start dancing again, I was kind of disappointed they didn't.
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Old 08-06-2016, 08:21
komentaightor
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Finally goodbye to Diggers, and such a good episode. It could have been mawkish, but wasn't. Zosia's interactions with Jac providing much-needed relief - and the staff dance!
Good writing, splendid acting, and the actors saying farewell. Silent credits. I wouldn't have changed a thing.

Good luck, Rob, with your next role. This death more of a tearjerker than your sudden end in Game of Thrones. Hope you land something meaty.
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Old 08-06-2016, 08:36
mrsgrumpy49
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On screen deaths usually leave me cold but I wept buckets. In fact I feel the tears welling up just thinking about it. I hope they win an award for this episode. It was so well written, imaginitive and well acted. The 'dance' was genius. As with others the only off note for me was when they all crowded in the doorway.
I loved the way the death was handled - sad and moving but with a glimmer of light (literally).
Holby City and the scriptwriters in particular - take a bow.
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Old 08-06-2016, 08:41
amelie74
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Haven't cried so much over a TV 'death' in years. I've loved the trio of Diggers, Dom and Zosia from the start - wonder if they'll all be gone soon. Probably my favourite episode of Holby, I hope they get an award for it. Only gripe was the 'audience' for Digby's death but well done to all concerned.
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Old 08-06-2016, 08:44
k9fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k9fan
That was an almost perfect programme. Not often do I cry in real life when I "should" but the tears ran down my face. Whoever wrote the programme did a terrific job, and the acting from certain people was faultless, I am glad I recorded the programme because I need to watch it again.

R.I.P. Arthur. I salute you, Diggers, Morven, Dom in particular.



............... almost perfect, just spoiled briefly for me by irritation at Zosia's rudeness to Jac, though I do realise she had been egged on by her psychopath father.
Quote:
Originally Posted by soap-lea
best episode of holby in it's history and a truly heartbreaking emotional exit over a fibe second leave in a black cab exit.

As an actor, I am sure being given that storyline was better than any other alternative

I agree. The best episode.
So much so that the whole series could have ended there and I would be content.
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Old 08-06-2016, 08:54
Leopardprints
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This was so heartbreaking. The pain was etched all over their faces. You could feel the huge sense of grief from everyone who loved Arthur and had me in floods of tears. I applaud the cast, they were incredible. This was beautifully writiten and very well directed. Will miss Arthur a lot

Holby should get more recognition. Has me gripped every week.
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Old 08-06-2016, 09:13
mrsgrumpy49
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Holby should get more recognition. Has me gripped every week.
It doesn't have the whizz bang drama of Casualty with people being pulled out of car wrecks and collapsing buildings etc but I prefer rhe storylines and the characters.
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Old 08-06-2016, 09:21
Chiltons Cane
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Just adding to the sentiments about today's episode. I thought it was excellent.

Digby was great and his relationship with Dom in particular was an absolute joy to watch over the last couple of years.

The great thing was that even though it was mainly about Arthur, everyone had a chance to shine.

Hansen is brilliant. The small chinks in his cold exterior were so exposed, from dancing around to tearing up and small details like calling Arthur and Morven by their first names were brilliant.

Zosia coping in her own way whilst battling Jac was typical, and Jac showed great heart with that hug at the end when Zosia was particularly vulnerable.

Cameos from Malick, Chantelle and (bizarrely) Ethan were nice touches (especially Chantelle).

The Dom and Digby friendship has been wonderful and this was a lovely way to close it.

I know not everyone liked Morven with Digby, but I do think they worked together well and thankfully, his finale was not all about them as a couple.

Lovely touches from Ric and Sacha too, and all in all, a fantastic episode. I loved it.

Pretty much sums up all i thought about the episde too.

I was crying with laughter at the dancing, especially when Ric and Hansen joined in
Then tears of sadness when Arthur died.
Fabulous performances from all tonight but especially those playing Arthur, Morven and Dominic.

And great to see Malick again!
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Old 08-06-2016, 10:02
qwerty21
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I don't know what is going on with Jac/Zosia/Guy - who is playing who, what is 'tough love' for he greater long term good, who is actually out to harm the other. At this point i'm not entirely sure I care.
Great episode

But I agree with this so much, I have no idea what's going on between those 3 and I've not missed an episode in years. It been done rather shoddily I think.
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