You're right. Gaga has always been pressured by even her own fans to an extent, I'm not sure why, maybe it's because she is the full all around "pop package" but the likes of Rihanna & Katy Perry don't get the same flack.
They don't get as much flack as they do not present an overblown image. Its simple pop-take it or leave it.
Gagas ego seemed to get out of control in the last era, & her relentless stunts now seem hackneyed & tiresome.
Gaga needs to pare back her image if she is to win back casuals. I can't see her dominating in a few yrs time unless she does.
Me neither, Dope's a really poor song and I'm surprised it's taken off. I think she should've chosen Venus and gone in hard with that because it has good single potential and then go hard with Sexxx Dreams. I can't imagine anything else doing remotely well as singles. It's all so disjointed and messy and I can imagine Troy wanting to do things properly and Gaga acting like a brat and demanding things be done in her messy way and it's ended up in disaster
I'm not a fan of the recording, but I'm warming to it live. The YTMA performance was a bit off for me though, but I guess it makes sense considering the context.
I disagree with Venus. I think that's had it's chance to indicate whether it would click or not here after 2 performances, and it hasn't. Gypsy and Sexxx Dreams should be the follow ups to DWUW.
I don't think it's fair to paint Gaga as the villain and Troy as the hero of this situation, or vice versa. We don't know what happened, but a safe bet is that she wants more control over her work and he wants her to sell. Classic artist and manager clash, both having different views of how things should go from different perspectives.
I had no idea her performance had made waves. I guess I should have twigged when a colleague brought it up and talked about her supposed drug problem the other day.
Shame about the figures as it's a great album but at this point I've come to terms with the decline all around. As long as she stays alienating a large proportion of the public she's going to have to put up with figures like these. Let's just hope Do What U Want can help push more sales and gives it more longevity in the run up to Christmas.
Indeed. She can't have it both ways anymore now the novelty has worn off and the weirdness is off-putting rather than interesting to many.
She, her team and her fans (and on some level, her detractors) needed a wake up call. I thought it happened with BTW, but I guess the big success of that campaign made the flaws seem less serious.
I've been saying for a while that she's going to have to go through a real rough patch before people warm to her again. We're venturing deep into said patch now, it's just a question of how far she goes in and for how long. I have no doubt she can turn it around though. People love a comeback and deep down I think most agree that she's too good a popstar to dispose of.
I don't think the problem is just Gaga's image though. Her songs have been declining for a while. At the end of the day its always about the music. No one really cares what someone looks like. If they like a song they will support it. Her music just isn't connecting with the masses anymore.
She needs to start working with people who can push her creative buttons. People like DJWS aren't capable of this. Maybe Gaga was given too much control too early on and it was a mistake. Now trying to take that control back is going to cause ego issues.
Yeah but you have to put it into prospective. If you bought a ticket you got the album. So I think those who took up this deal would have purchased the album anyway. I mean it cost more to buy a ticket than it did the album so they must have been pretty big fans in the first place
Indeed, but the same logic wasn't applicable to Amazon's deal with BTW, so I guess we can't apply it here either.
Or she won't. I don't think she's "hot" with teens/20's now. She's not over by a long shot,but no longer No1. I suspect this is the start of a slow decline. She simply peaked too soon.
Interestingly Katy Perry has turned out into a grower. Id never have predicted that.
It's easy to grow when you don't start as a phenomenon. Gaga, much like Britney, was doomed to "decline" because you simply can't compete with peaks like that.
How the teens/twentysomethings feel about her now is not necessarily indicative of how they'll feel in future or the next generation of teens will feel. Comebacks are par for the course in pop.
Very sad news for #LadyGaGa! Her poorly received by critics new album, #ArtPop, is also being poorly received by consumers! Billboard magazine is reporting that #ArtPop will sell under initial projects and move about 260,000 copies its first week in America. That's well behind Katy Perry's first week sales of 286,000 for "Prism" and also behind Miley Cyrus' first week sales of 270,000 for "Bangerz". And the "ArtPop" debut pales in comparison to the 1.1 million copies GaGa's last album, "Born This Way," sold its first week in the U.S. Oh, well, it's a good thing for her GaGa recently said she doesn't care for commercial success!
It's easy to grow when you don't start as a phenomenon. Gaga, much like Britney, was doomed to "decline" because you simply can't compete with peaks like that.
How the teens/twentysomethings feel about her now is not necessarily indicative of how they'll feel in future or the next generation of teens will feel. Comebacks are par for the course in pop.
This is another problem for Gaga though. As you get older the less cool you are to the new generation of teens. Its a sad fact. They are more interested in singers closer to their own age.
Madonna had the vision to know her music needed to mature with her fans and up until the last few releases its a formula she saw sense to stick with.
Gaga seems firmly stuck in the camp pop box now so its going to be difficult for her to break away from that. She is capable of it though. Her jazz background is testament to this.
Indeed, but the same logic wasn't applicable to Amazon's deal with BTW, so I guess we can't apply it here either.
It's easy to grow when you don't start as a phenomenon. Gaga, much like Britney, was doomed to "decline" because you simply can't compete with peaks like that.
How the teens/twentysomethings feel about her now is not necessarily indicative of how they'll feel in future or the next generation of teens will feel. Comebacks are par for the course in pop.
I guess so, she certainly has a lot of affection felt for her by this generations music buyers,
I think her fundamental problem is that there is a part of her that wants to be Madonna-like (the great pop Princess) and the part of her that wants to be the edgy, cool & respected artist (Bowie/Warhol/Velvet Undcerground) hence the literal name of her album: ARTPOP.
Theres only 1 problem with this aim. IMO you CANNOT be both, You can either be the pop princess a la Katy Perry with the simple pop songs, mainstream image and mass exposure & profile, OR you can be the P J Harvey-like cool "artist" with the respect, musical kudos and unfortunately, less of an impact publicly or in terms of sales.
You cant have both IMO- ARTPOP is simply not a viable concept.
. People love a comeback and deep down I think most agree that she's too good a popstar to dispose of.
She will come back and a real hard slap in the face may be a great wake up call. It depends on her though and her attitude. She needs to cut the weirdness and show us who she really is and make people able to relate to her. I think she needs to drop this whole monster thing as well because it makes a lot of people feel uncomfortable.
First of all though she has to get back to making good music. ARTPOP isn't selling because the music is very underwhelming and her performances have been messy. She needs to go back to the drawing board and start again but the big question is whether her ego will let that happen
Very sad news for #LadyGaGa! Her poorly received by critics new album, #ArtPop, is also being poorly received by consumers! Billboard magazine is reporting that #ArtPop will sell under initial projects and move about 260,000 copies its first week in America. That's well behind Katy Perry's first week sales of 286,000 for "Prism" and also behind Miley Cyrus' first week sales of 270,000 for "Bangerz". And the "ArtPop" debut pales in comparison to the 1.1 million copies GaGa's last album, "Born This Way," sold its first week in the U.S. Oh, well, it's a good thing for her GaGa recently said she doesn't care for commercial success!
Im no Little Monster, but Perez's obsessional hate campaign against Gaga is creepy! He SERIOUSLY needs to let this go FFS!:rolleyes:
Im no Little Monster, but Perez's obsessional hate campaign against Gaga is creepy! He SERIOUSLY needs to let this go FFS!:rolleyes:
I think they are both as bad as each other. They are both grown ups, yet neither of them act like it. He has a blog - which posts about all things - if he never posted about her, people would say he hated her, but when he posts the truth, people aren't happy. It's all very silly.
She will come back and a real hard slap in the face may be a great wake up call. It depends on her though and her attitude. She needs to cut the weirdness and show us who she really is and make people able to relate to her. I think she needs to drop this whole monster thing as well because it makes a lot of people feel uncomfortable.
First of all though she has to get back to making good music. ARTPOP isn't selling because the music is very underwhelming and her performances have been messy. She needs to go back to the drawing board and start again but the big question is whether her ego will let that happen
I dont get all this business with promotional singles. I think 1 negative effect it has is that no single song gets a strong identification on the radio, the place where she is likely to get good exposure to the casuals that all successful artists need.
Just stick to a strong single and promote it FFS. I dont see how these promotional singles actually aid an artist other than a short lived, sharp increase in sales for the song, that falls away as quickly as they rise.
He sold 792,000 in the first week - I think a drop is inevitable. A huge drop? Who knows.
Absolutley no shade intended on Eminem or his current success, but a c.70% drop in sales (if Gaga gets to #1 with the lower predictions) would be pretty big.
I don't think the problem is just Gaga's image though. Her songs have been declining for a while. At the end of the day its always about the music. No one really cares what someone looks like. If they like a song they will support it. Her music just isn't connecting with the masses anymore.
She needs to start working with people who can push her creative buttons. People like DJWS aren't capable of this. Maybe Gaga was given too much control too early on and it was a mistake. Now trying to take that control back is going to cause ego issues.
This. The mothers wheeling pushchairs who grab a CD in tesco whilst doing the weekly shop won't know about her feuds with Perez and Madonna. They won't care about what she's saying in magazines and interviews and what drama shes creating. They'll just hear her music on the radio and on X Factor and the simple truth is the music hasn't been good enough to make an impression on the majority. Her music has been getting worse each time
I think they are both as bad as each other. They are both grown ups, yet neither of them act like it. He has a blog - which posts about all things - if he never posted about her, people would say he hated her, but when he posts the truth, people aren't happy. It's all very silly.
Perez is pond life and I remember very well how he started slagging off Madonna when he was BFF with Gaga and was proclaiming her as the Queen of Pop. You have to remember though that Gaga used Perez to get where she is and thrived on his support when she needed it. In a way she bit the hand that fed her and she knew what he was like so she shouldn't have got involved with him in the first place
What Lady Gaga has done for the LGBT community, is much more than what Madonna, Cher, Liza Minelli and any other Gay Icons done. I never heard Madonna proclaiming her support about Don't ask and don't tell or legalizing same sex marriage around the time they were big things.
LOL U R under 25 right??:rolleyes::D:D:D
Do I win a prize??
Do some reading.... Gaga hasnt done anything genuinely risky in relation to her LGBT support, Other before risked their entire careers to support the gay community
I guess so, she certainly has a lot of affection felt for her by this generations music buyers,
I think her fundamental problem is that there is a part of her that wants to be Madonna-like (the great pop Princess) and the part of her that wants to be the edgy, cool & respected artist (Bowie/Warhol/Velvet Undcerground) hence the literal name of her album: ARTPOP.
Theres only 1 problem with this aim. IMO you CANNOT be both, You can either be the pop princess a la Katy Perry with the simple pop songs, mainstream image and mass exposure & profile, OR you can be the P J Harvey-like cool "artist" with the respect, musical kudos and unfortunately, less of an impact publicly or in terms of sales.
You cant have both IMO- ARTPOP is simply not a viable concept.
Agreed. It's not viable and hopefully she sees that she can't straddle it and expect top tier success. 20:80 art:pop is probably about as high the ratio can be to get away with it. When push comes to shove though, she may ultimately be fine with doing what she wants and sacrificing mass appeal.
People are incredibly fickle, and I bet if she came hard with an album full of well crafted and strategic hits that were still entertaining but digestible, and she presented it looking beautiful with pleasing visuals - she'd be laughing.
She will come back and a real hard slap in the face may be a great wake up call. It depends on her though and her attitude. She needs to cut the weirdness and show us who she really is and make people able to relate to her. I think she needs to drop this whole monster thing as well because it makes a lot of people feel uncomfortable.
First of all though she has to get back to making good music. ARTPOP isn't selling because the music is very underwhelming and her performances have been messy. She needs to go back to the drawing board and start again but the big question is whether her ego will let that happen
The weirdness is exaggerated for effect, but you can tell that she genuinely does love it. Ditching it doesn't make her more authentic, just more relatable.
"Good music" is so subjective, and it's much easier to determine a general consensus on that in hindsight when you can read a forum or comment section. It's different when you're in a studio. The only way around that is to involve more experienced producers and send it out for review. Something that will be a hard pill to swallow for someone who ultimately wants full control and not to be restricted/directed by commercial appeal.
I think they are both as bad as each other. They are both grown ups, yet neither of them act like it. He has a blog - which posts about all things - if he never posted about her, people would say he hated her, but when he posts the truth, people aren't happy. It's all very silly.
That's really not fair. Gaga can be hypocritical and speaks before she speaks, but Perez is genuinely and obsessively hateful and vile. He is a nasty person, whilst you can tell Gaga isn't.
I think Gaga cares deeply about sales and would be devastated if ARTPOP sold poorly and didn't reach number one, she might say something to the contrary but a quick look at her twitter feed and her comments down the years about her sales and chart success will tell you she cares deeply and she will be hurting make no mistake about it. If people think she is quite happy to play runner up to Miley and Katy then they are kidding themselves. Gaga will be gutted
That's really not fair. Gaga can be hypocritical and speaks before she speaks, but Perez is genuinely and obsessively hateful and vile. He is a nasty person, whilst you can tell Gaga isn't.
one can only conclude she must be extremely naive then, to befriend a person like that. like you say, people seem to be very aware of perez and his apparent vileness. yet, apparently gaga was supposedly oblivious to what has been so glaringly obvious to the internet community for many years. something just doesn't add up.
one can only conclude she must be extremely naive then, to befriend a person like that. like you say, people seem to be very aware of perez and his apparent vileness. yet, apparently gaga was supposedly oblivious to what has been so glaringly obvious to the internet community for many years. something just doesn't add up.
She thought he would change, now that he made (well, stole) a name for himself. Yes, she was naive if you think believing people can change is naive.
one can only conclude she must be extremely naive then, to befriend a person like that. like you say, people seem to be very aware of perez and his apparent vileness. yet, apparently gaga was supposedly oblivious to what has been so glaringly obvious to the internet community for many years. something just doesn't add up.
I find it strange being a big defender of Gaga but: she may not have been aware of how vicious he can be when she became friends with him and also: hes like a dog with a bone, he WONT LET GO. Its unpleasant, what has she done to him thats so bloody terrible? Murdered a member of his family? His loathing of her is relentless & he keeps on and on with it.
Surely most people- if they dislike an artist will have a bit of a rant, then get bored with the subject and then ignore the person they hate. Perez has been going on for 3-4 months now (at least)
Comments
They don't get as much flack as they do not present an overblown image. Its simple pop-take it or leave it.
Gagas ego seemed to get out of control in the last era, & her relentless stunts now seem hackneyed & tiresome.
Gaga needs to pare back her image if she is to win back casuals. I can't see her dominating in a few yrs time unless she does.
I'm not a fan of the recording, but I'm warming to it live. The YTMA performance was a bit off for me though, but I guess it makes sense considering the context.
I disagree with Venus. I think that's had it's chance to indicate whether it would click or not here after 2 performances, and it hasn't. Gypsy and Sexxx Dreams should be the follow ups to DWUW.
I don't think it's fair to paint Gaga as the villain and Troy as the hero of this situation, or vice versa. We don't know what happened, but a safe bet is that she wants more control over her work and he wants her to sell. Classic artist and manager clash, both having different views of how things should go from different perspectives.
I had no idea her performance had made waves. I guess I should have twigged when a colleague brought it up and talked about her supposed drug problem the other day.
Indeed. She can't have it both ways anymore now the novelty has worn off and the weirdness is off-putting rather than interesting to many.
She, her team and her fans (and on some level, her detractors) needed a wake up call. I thought it happened with BTW, but I guess the big success of that campaign made the flaws seem less serious.
I've been saying for a while that she's going to have to go through a real rough patch before people warm to her again. We're venturing deep into said patch now, it's just a question of how far she goes in and for how long. I have no doubt she can turn it around though. People love a comeback and deep down I think most agree that she's too good a popstar to dispose of.
He sold 792,000 in the first week - I think a drop is inevitable. A huge drop? Who knows.
She needs to start working with people who can push her creative buttons. People like DJWS aren't capable of this. Maybe Gaga was given too much control too early on and it was a mistake. Now trying to take that control back is going to cause ego issues.
Indeed, but the same logic wasn't applicable to Amazon's deal with BTW, so I guess we can't apply it here either.
It's easy to grow when you don't start as a phenomenon. Gaga, much like Britney, was doomed to "decline" because you simply can't compete with peaks like that.
How the teens/twentysomethings feel about her now is not necessarily indicative of how they'll feel in future or the next generation of teens will feel. Comebacks are par for the course in pop.
Very sad news for #LadyGaGa! Her poorly received by critics new album, #ArtPop, is also being poorly received by consumers! Billboard magazine is reporting that #ArtPop will sell under initial projects and move about 260,000 copies its first week in America. That's well behind Katy Perry's first week sales of 286,000 for "Prism" and also behind Miley Cyrus' first week sales of 270,000 for "Bangerz". And the "ArtPop" debut pales in comparison to the 1.1 million copies GaGa's last album, "Born This Way," sold its first week in the U.S. Oh, well, it's a good thing for her GaGa recently said she doesn't care for commercial success!
But BTW was sold for $1. Its not like you had to pay over $100 to get it as a freebie.
This is another problem for Gaga though. As you get older the less cool you are to the new generation of teens. Its a sad fact. They are more interested in singers closer to their own age.
Madonna had the vision to know her music needed to mature with her fans and up until the last few releases its a formula she saw sense to stick with.
Gaga seems firmly stuck in the camp pop box now so its going to be difficult for her to break away from that. She is capable of it though. Her jazz background is testament to this.
I guess so, she certainly has a lot of affection felt for her by this generations music buyers,
I think her fundamental problem is that there is a part of her that wants to be Madonna-like (the great pop Princess) and the part of her that wants to be the edgy, cool & respected artist (Bowie/Warhol/Velvet Undcerground) hence the literal name of her album: ARTPOP.
Theres only 1 problem with this aim. IMO you CANNOT be both, You can either be the pop princess a la Katy Perry with the simple pop songs, mainstream image and mass exposure & profile, OR you can be the P J Harvey-like cool "artist" with the respect, musical kudos and unfortunately, less of an impact publicly or in terms of sales.
You cant have both IMO- ARTPOP is simply not a viable concept.
She will come back and a real hard slap in the face may be a great wake up call. It depends on her though and her attitude. She needs to cut the weirdness and show us who she really is and make people able to relate to her. I think she needs to drop this whole monster thing as well because it makes a lot of people feel uncomfortable.
First of all though she has to get back to making good music. ARTPOP isn't selling because the music is very underwhelming and her performances have been messy. She needs to go back to the drawing board and start again but the big question is whether her ego will let that happen
Im no Little Monster, but Perez's obsessional hate campaign against Gaga is creepy! He SERIOUSLY needs to let this go FFS!:rolleyes:
I think they are both as bad as each other. They are both grown ups, yet neither of them act like it. He has a blog - which posts about all things - if he never posted about her, people would say he hated her, but when he posts the truth, people aren't happy. It's all very silly.
I dont get all this business with promotional singles. I think 1 negative effect it has is that no single song gets a strong identification on the radio, the place where she is likely to get good exposure to the casuals that all successful artists need.
Just stick to a strong single and promote it FFS. I dont see how these promotional singles actually aid an artist other than a short lived, sharp increase in sales for the song, that falls away as quickly as they rise.
Absolutley no shade intended on Eminem or his current success, but a c.70% drop in sales (if Gaga gets to #1 with the lower predictions) would be pretty big.
This. The mothers wheeling pushchairs who grab a CD in tesco whilst doing the weekly shop won't know about her feuds with Perez and Madonna. They won't care about what she's saying in magazines and interviews and what drama shes creating. They'll just hear her music on the radio and on X Factor and the simple truth is the music hasn't been good enough to make an impression on the majority. Her music has been getting worse each time
Perez is pond life and I remember very well how he started slagging off Madonna when he was BFF with Gaga and was proclaiming her as the Queen of Pop. You have to remember though that Gaga used Perez to get where she is and thrived on his support when she needed it. In a way she bit the hand that fed her and she knew what he was like so she shouldn't have got involved with him in the first place
LOL U R under 25 right??:rolleyes::D:D:D
Do I win a prize??
Do some reading.... Gaga hasnt done anything genuinely risky in relation to her LGBT support, Other before risked their entire careers to support the gay community
Agreed. It's not viable and hopefully she sees that she can't straddle it and expect top tier success. 20:80 art:pop is probably about as high the ratio can be to get away with it. When push comes to shove though, she may ultimately be fine with doing what she wants and sacrificing mass appeal.
People are incredibly fickle, and I bet if she came hard with an album full of well crafted and strategic hits that were still entertaining but digestible, and she presented it looking beautiful with pleasing visuals - she'd be laughing.
The weirdness is exaggerated for effect, but you can tell that she genuinely does love it. Ditching it doesn't make her more authentic, just more relatable.
"Good music" is so subjective, and it's much easier to determine a general consensus on that in hindsight when you can read a forum or comment section. It's different when you're in a studio. The only way around that is to involve more experienced producers and send it out for review. Something that will be a hard pill to swallow for someone who ultimately wants full control and not to be restricted/directed by commercial appeal.
That's really not fair. Gaga can be hypocritical and speaks before she speaks, but Perez is genuinely and obsessively hateful and vile. He is a nasty person, whilst you can tell Gaga isn't.
one can only conclude she must be extremely naive then, to befriend a person like that. like you say, people seem to be very aware of perez and his apparent vileness. yet, apparently gaga was supposedly oblivious to what has been so glaringly obvious to the internet community for many years. something just doesn't add up.
She thought he would change, now that he made (well, stole) a name for himself. Yes, she was naive if you think believing people can change is naive.
I find it strange being a big defender of Gaga but: she may not have been aware of how vicious he can be when she became friends with him and also: hes like a dog with a bone, he WONT LET GO. Its unpleasant, what has she done to him thats so bloody terrible? Murdered a member of his family? His loathing of her is relentless & he keeps on and on with it.
Surely most people- if they dislike an artist will have a bit of a rant, then get bored with the subject and then ignore the person they hate. Perez has been going on for 3-4 months now (at least)