Just to let you know the video I posted in the first post ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wmIZEl1nSo ) has been from what I heard this morning the 7th most watched video in the World this week Amazing work from Irish Tourism board.
Why do you think? People simply aren't that bothered about something which is relatively commonplace over here. It just doesn't have much significance. .
You misunderstand. I'm talking about the unwillingness to understand how ethnicity works outside the UK, particularly in the U.S. where certain people here are bothered enough to sneer whenever the subject comes up. If something doesn't fit with their experience then it's invalid. That's insular.
And yep, I'm sure the revelers here in Nottingham will have a lovely time. Along with people in Toronto, Buenos Aires, Sydney, The Caribbean, et al... Seems like the Irish, generally speaking, like to make their presence known no matter how far removed they are from the motherland. No harm, no foul, eh?
You misunderstand. I'm talking about the unwillingness to understand how ethnicity works outside the UK, particularly in the U.S. where certain people here are bothered enough to sneer whenever the subject comes up. If something doesn't fit with their experience then it's invalid. That's insular.
I'm sure most people get how it works outside, and that it's important to Americans. It's just that Irish people are ten a penny over here so it's simply not significant to us, hence the bemusement.
And yep, I'm sure the revelers here in Nottingham will have a lovely time. Along with people in Toronto, Buenos Aires, Sydney, The Caribbean, et al... Seems like the Irish, generally speaking, like to make their presence known no matter how far removed they are from the motherland. No harm, no foul, eh?
Except those people ain't Irish. ;-) Have a lovely Patrick's Day all the same.
I'm sure most people get how it works outside, and that it's important to Americans. It's just that Irish people are ten a penny over here so it's simply not significant to us, hence the bemusement.
Except those people ain't Irish. ;-) Have a lovely Patrick's Day all the same.
Any excuse to get drunk is fine by me. I don't think you have to be Irish or even have an Irish friend to go drinking with.
Some of the English DSers would be horrified to live in Kings Heath, traditionally an 'Irish' area of Bham, where there were even St Patrick's Day cards for sale... I think historically, older people (like my age) were taken aback by people celebrating it as we grew up during the Troubles but now it is different. Let's just enjoy it.
Any excuse to get drunk is fine by me. I don't think you have to be Irish or even have an Irish friend to go drinking with.
Some of the English DSers would be horrified to live in Kings Heath, traditionally an 'Irish' area of Bham, where there were even St Patrick's Day cards for sale... I think historically, older people (like my age) were taken aback by people celebrating it as we grew up during the Troubles but now it is different. Let's just enjoy it.
My sentiments exactly. Wonder what it was like growing up there after the pub bombings though, or was the anti-Irish sentiment they go on about over-sensationalised?
My sentiments exactly. Wonder what it was like growing up there after the pub bombings though, or was the anti-Irish sentiment they go on about over-sensationalised?
I think normal folk across the UK realised that the troubles and especially the bombing of targets on the British mainland was not supported in any way by decent Irish folk be that living in Ireland or immigrants into the UK.
My sentiments exactly. Wonder what it was like growing up there after the pub bombings though, or was the anti-Irish sentiment they go on about over-sensationalised?
I lived in Bham after the pub bombings - it was very strong there (in some places). The only person I ever knew who had been actually affected by the bombings was (ironically) second generation emigrant - and she was the most anti Irish person I met!:o
It did affect everyone's lives - years of being searched or having your bags taken off you in public buildings, years of wondering every time you went out if a shop window was going to blow out on you, etc etc. But then it became part of the background fabric of daily life too - you got on with things. I think that Warrington bombing was the one that really got to people as it was children. It was a climate of fear, for a couple of decades. Everyone knew over sentimental Irish Americans were funding a lot of the terror, so hence the hostility, in older people, conscious or subconscious, to American over-sentimentalising Ireland. So it's a complex thing and one we've half forgotten already.
I think the world is a better place now, than it was then, and to get together and enjoy it and see it as a 'thing' in England as well as in the US, is positive. But I think a lot of the scepticism/dislike tells you more about Brits' views of Americans (which has always been a bit cynical and superior but at the same time, is kind of understandable when you think of where the main funding for terrorism came from) than it tells you about our view of the Irish. If you see what I mean.
I lived in Bham after the pub bombings - it was very strong there (in some places). The only person I ever knew who had been actually affected by the bombings was (ironically) second generation emigrant - and she was the most anti Irish person I met!:o
It did affect everyone's lives - years of being searched or having your bags taken off you in public buildings, years of wondering every time you went out if a shop window was going to blow out on you, etc etc. But then it became part of the background fabric of daily life too - you got on with things. I think that Warrington bombing was the one that really got to people as it was children. It was a climate of fear, for a couple of decades. Everyone knew over sentimental Irish Americans were funding a lot of the terror, so hence the hostility, in older people, conscious or subconscious, to American over-sentimentalising Ireland. So it's a complex thing and one we've half forgotten already.
I think the world is a better place now, than it was then, and to get together and enjoy it and see it as a 'thing' in England as well as in the US, is positive. But I think a lot of the scepticism/dislike tells you more about Brits' views of Americans (which has always been a bit cynical and superior but at the same time, is kind of understandable when you think of where the main funding for terrorism came from) than it tells you about our view of the Irish. If you see what I mean.
This is very much my view and put into text much better than I could.
How come Birmingham was bombed? I wasn't around when the troubles were massive in the 70's and 80's. It's weird for me to think in England now there'd be any anti-Irish sentiment because everyone seems to love them. I am of Irish decent and would just sort of like to me more clued up. Going over to Ireland all the time as a kid and being brought up by Irish you could almost say I lived in a plastic paddy bubble. Which I'm sure in not uncommon.
How come Birmingham was bombed? I wasn't around when the troubles were massive in the 70's and 80's. It's weird for me to think in England now there'd be any anti-Irish sentiment because everyone seems to love them. I am of Irish decent and would just sort of like to me more clued up. Going over to Ireland all the time as a kid and being brought up by Irish you could almost say I lived in a plastic paddy bubble. Which I'm sure in not uncommon.
Am not sure. I think because maybe it had a sizeable Irish community in places like Digbeth and Kings Heath so it was known to whoever? Maybe they felt it would cause more unrest to do it in a city with a strong Irish community?
Don't think they ever caught them (and if they had they'd have got the wrong people). But people felt scared and vulnerable and we couldn't understand why people in New York thought it was a good idea to kill English people out for a pint, or later on, kiddies in MacDonalds... So I think what you are seeing from some older or more reactionary people in this thread is a conscious or subconscious hangover from that, as they will probably think of St P's day as more an American thing than an Irish one and the resentment seemed to be more at that sentimentalisation of 'Oirish' culture, than against actual real Irish people.
It's instructive that people don't seem to care either way about St Andrew's Day or St David's...
One of the pubs blown up was on the ground floor of The Rotunda, Birmingham's big landmark, right in the city centre. I wasn't there til a whole 6 years later but still it was very raw, with people who'd been there at the time. Really raw. That is not an exaggeration. As the situation was ongoing, that probably made it worse..? Hopefully a Brummie may be along who was in the city at the time and could shed more light about what it really felt like. But I know it sparked off anti Irish feeling everywhere.
Like lots of English people probably, my feeling at the time was anti terrorism but not remotely anti Irish. I always felt if I had been there, I'd have felt the same as the IRA - just not killed people, or harmed anyone for it as that just slows down the process of solving political problems, as the powers-that-be then can't be seen to be giving in to terrorism. Something I'd learned in A Level History.
How come Birmingham was bombed? I wasn't around when the troubles were massive in the 70's and 80's. It's weird for me to think in England now there'd be any anti-Irish sentiment because everyone seems to love them. I am of Irish decent and would just sort of like to me more clued up. Going over to Ireland all the time as a kid and being brought up by Irish you could almost say I lived in a plastic paddy bubble. Which I'm sure in not uncommon.
There was some anti-Irish sentiment in the 70s, but the people who would actually give immigrant families a hard time weren't that smart or well-educated, and firebombs aimed at houses weren't unheard of. Less than the EDL do now but with none of the gathering, spouting and marching. We were schooled to say we were English if anyone asked.
There are yobs in every country and in every time. All that changes is the targets.
ETA a bit of context: people were largely more racist, sexist and everythingist back then. I don't want the above to sound melodramatic.
Thanks all, I was born in 1976 so while I remember the IRA atrocities and felt embarrassed in the 80s, I don't remember the anti-Irish feeling over here.
Anyway, on a much lighter note, here's the most accurate (satirical) article I've seen on St Patrick's Day in Ireland so far....
That's not actually set in stone - some say he was Welsh but other Scottish, English and even some say French... but I love the Welsh so i'll take it he was Welsh too
Well he definitely couldn't be English as 'England' didn't exist when St Patrick was alive.
:kitty:
Is there a special public holiday in Ireland for the patron saint?
We don't have one here, though there have been many debates about having one.
Personally I'd rather not have a holiday on the national day, mainly because it'd turn into another bank holiday of kids either slobbed out in front of the TV at home, or stuck in a traffic jam with mum and dad on the way to some unimaginative humdrum destination like a theme park.
Far better they are in school, where the whole day is give over to Welshness, esiteddfods, traditional cuisine and so on
Is there a special public holiday in Ireland for the patron saint?
We don't have one here, though there have been many debates about having one.
Personally I'd rather not have a holiday on the national day, mainly because it'd turn into another bank holiday of kids either slobbed out in front of the TV at home, or stuck in a traffic jam with mum and dad on the way to some unimaginative humdrum destination like a theme park.
Far better they are in school, where the whole day is give over to Welshness, esiteddfods, traditional cuisine and so on
Yeah the 17th March is a full public holiday/bank holiday here in Ireland - every large village, town and city has a parade of some kind - and of course a few pints are usually had after to celebrate being part of this little place
Yeah the 17th March is a full public holiday/bank holiday here in Ireland - every large village, town and city has a parade of some kind - and of course a few pints are usually had after to celebrate being part of this little place
Comments
You misunderstand. I'm talking about the unwillingness to understand how ethnicity works outside the UK, particularly in the U.S. where certain people here are bothered enough to sneer whenever the subject comes up. If something doesn't fit with their experience then it's invalid. That's insular.
And yep, I'm sure the revelers here in Nottingham will have a lovely time. Along with people in Toronto, Buenos Aires, Sydney, The Caribbean, et al... Seems like the Irish, generally speaking, like to make their presence known no matter how far removed they are from the motherland. No harm, no foul, eh?
I'm sure most people get how it works outside, and that it's important to Americans. It's just that Irish people are ten a penny over here so it's simply not significant to us, hence the bemusement.
Except those people ain't Irish. ;-) Have a lovely Patrick's Day all the same.
You just proved my point. ;-)
Some of the English DSers would be horrified to live in Kings Heath, traditionally an 'Irish' area of Bham, where there were even St Patrick's Day cards for sale... I think historically, older people (like my age) were taken aback by people celebrating it as we grew up during the Troubles but now it is different. Let's just enjoy it.
My sentiments exactly. Wonder what it was like growing up there after the pub bombings though, or was the anti-Irish sentiment they go on about over-sensationalised?
And you mine. So that's Guinness and yays all round!
I lived in Bham after the pub bombings - it was very strong there (in some places). The only person I ever knew who had been actually affected by the bombings was (ironically) second generation emigrant - and she was the most anti Irish person I met!:o
It did affect everyone's lives - years of being searched or having your bags taken off you in public buildings, years of wondering every time you went out if a shop window was going to blow out on you, etc etc. But then it became part of the background fabric of daily life too - you got on with things. I think that Warrington bombing was the one that really got to people as it was children. It was a climate of fear, for a couple of decades. Everyone knew over sentimental Irish Americans were funding a lot of the terror, so hence the hostility, in older people, conscious or subconscious, to American over-sentimentalising Ireland. So it's a complex thing and one we've half forgotten already.
I think the world is a better place now, than it was then, and to get together and enjoy it and see it as a 'thing' in England as well as in the US, is positive. But I think a lot of the scepticism/dislike tells you more about Brits' views of Americans (which has always been a bit cynical and superior but at the same time, is kind of understandable when you think of where the main funding for terrorism came from) than it tells you about our view of the Irish. If you see what I mean.
This is very much my view and put into text much better than I could.
Am not sure. I think because maybe it had a sizeable Irish community in places like Digbeth and Kings Heath so it was known to whoever? Maybe they felt it would cause more unrest to do it in a city with a strong Irish community?
Don't think they ever caught them (and if they had they'd have got the wrong people). But people felt scared and vulnerable and we couldn't understand why people in New York thought it was a good idea to kill English people out for a pint, or later on, kiddies in MacDonalds... So I think what you are seeing from some older or more reactionary people in this thread is a conscious or subconscious hangover from that, as they will probably think of St P's day as more an American thing than an Irish one and the resentment seemed to be more at that sentimentalisation of 'Oirish' culture, than against actual real Irish people.
It's instructive that people don't seem to care either way about St Andrew's Day or St David's...
One of the pubs blown up was on the ground floor of The Rotunda, Birmingham's big landmark, right in the city centre. I wasn't there til a whole 6 years later but still it was very raw, with people who'd been there at the time. Really raw. That is not an exaggeration. As the situation was ongoing, that probably made it worse..? Hopefully a Brummie may be along who was in the city at the time and could shed more light about what it really felt like. But I know it sparked off anti Irish feeling everywhere.
Like lots of English people probably, my feeling at the time was anti terrorism but not remotely anti Irish. I always felt if I had been there, I'd have felt the same as the IRA - just not killed people, or harmed anyone for it as that just slows down the process of solving political problems, as the powers-that-be then can't be seen to be giving in to terrorism. Something I'd learned in A Level History.
There was some anti-Irish sentiment in the 70s, but the people who would actually give immigrant families a hard time weren't that smart or well-educated, and firebombs aimed at houses weren't unheard of. Less than the EDL do now but with none of the gathering, spouting and marching. We were schooled to say we were English if anyone asked.
There are yobs in every country and in every time. All that changes is the targets.
ETA a bit of context: people were largely more racist, sexist and everythingist back then. I don't want the above to sound melodramatic.
Anyway, on a much lighter note, here's the most accurate (satirical) article I've seen on St Patrick's Day in Ireland so far....
http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2014/03/14/met-eireann-predicts-heavy-shower-of-drunken-*******-for-st-patricks-day-celebrations/
... in a period when everyone in these parts of Britain was 'British' i.e Welsh, or 'Wealas' as the Anglo Saxons called them ;-)
Well he definitely couldn't be English as 'England' didn't exist when St Patrick was alive.
:kitty:
We don't have one here, though there have been many debates about having one.
Personally I'd rather not have a holiday on the national day, mainly because it'd turn into another bank holiday of kids either slobbed out in front of the TV at home, or stuck in a traffic jam with mum and dad on the way to some unimaginative humdrum destination like a theme park.
Far better they are in school, where the whole day is give over to Welshness, esiteddfods, traditional cuisine and so on
Oooh a parade sounds fun
And a good party afterwards.
Dirty brute.
How ridiculous.
So full of himself and his countries importance.