Problems in Calais with refugees - lack of compassion?

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  • frisky pythonfrisky python Posts: 9,737
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    To save the read, plus energy making a cuppa, does it explain why they don't stop in the first safe country but head here instead?

    Yes. That's why I said go to p26 if you didn't want to read the whole thing. (I am not C&Ping, if people want to know they can go and read it for themselves.)
  • sodavlacsodavlac Posts: 10,607
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    Shrike wrote: »
    Page 26 of the pdf is a couple of pages earlier than page 26 of the report. Good old adobe!

    Stupid adobe! >:(:blush:
  • frisky pythonfrisky python Posts: 9,737
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    sodavlac wrote: »
    I read p26 and it didn't refer to that at all.

    It was people stating why they left their countries and some of the dangers they faced when trying to do so. There was nothing about why they were heading to where they were heading.

    P26, starts saying why under the title 4.1 Making the decision.
    As noted earlier in this report there is a belief held by many policy makers, politicians and the public, that asylum seekers actively choose to come to the UK in preference to other potential countries of asylum and that this decision is based primarily on information that they have about the asylum system and the level of support to which they will be entitled. This has led to accusations that the UK asylum system is a ‘soft touch’.

    And so it goes on.
  • bluebladeblueblade Posts: 88,859
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    They interviewed one on local tv the other night and asked why are you so desperate to get to England, the answer was that 'you get free money, food and a house' and I bet he's not the only one who's under that impression.

    I think the govt on both sides should be sending the message back to the countries they come from that you don't.

    That sounds plausible, and it does make you wonder why, even after all this time, we are still such a soft touch. Especially as the country is becoming more overcrowded, and an accommodation crisis looms.
    Grab yourself a cuppa and have a read of some research done which explains why. If short of time, flick to p26.

    http://www.refugeecouncil.org.uk/assets/0001/5702/rcchance.pdf

    Very interesting, but it doesn't focus specifically on why there are UK migration camps on the Northern French coast, full of people utterly screaming desperate to get here.

    About the closest we get to it is this:-
    As noted earlier in this report there is a belief held by many policy makers, politicians and the public, that asylum seekers actively choose to come to the UK in preference to other potential countries of asylum and that this decision is based primarily on information that they have about the asylum system and the level of support to which they will be entitled. This has led to accusations that the UK asylum system is a ‘soft touch’.

    At the end of the day, France is a very nice country. It's much larger than the UK, but has roughly the same living standards and wealth. Yet they still queue up to come here !!! Maybe we should copy what the French are doing, in order to discourage them.
  • JakobjoeJakobjoe Posts: 8,235
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    im sorry but i have no compassion at all left...they should be told theyll never get in to the UK.....it makes me more determined to vote UKIP
  • frisky pythonfrisky python Posts: 9,737
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    blueblade wrote: »
    That sounds plausible, and it does make you wonder why, even after all this time, we are still such a soft touch. Especially as the country is becoming more overcrowded, and an accommodation crisis looms.



    Very interesting, but it doesn't focus specifically on why there are UK migration camps on the Northern French coast, full of people utterly screaming desperate to get here.

    About the closest we get to it is this:-



    At the end of the day, France is a very nice country. It's much larger than the UK, but has roughly the same living standards and wealth. Yet they still queue up to come here !!! Maybe we should copy what the French are doing, in order to discourage them.

    You didn't read the bit about how the agents are promoting the UK then? That the agents are pushing these people towards the UK? Why do you think the agents are doing that - what's in it for them?

    And P34 onwards also covers the question of why they don't seek asylum in the first safe (i.e. european) country.
  • WutheringWuthering Posts: 1,071
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    Lots and lots of people lining up to prove the OP's point!
  • StylesStyles Posts: 714
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    The migrants are sly devious individuals who will do anything to bypass the legal way to enter the UK. I have compassion for the poor people of Calais, the migrants are ruining their area.
  • sherisgirlsherisgirl Posts: 2,405
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    I was born and brought up in kent, I have alot of family and friends there, family working at the ports, and from what I know frisky python a hell of alot of people living near ports a fed up to the back teeth with imigrants, Dover especially as that has so much History it has turned into a s***hole, on sky we often watch the Meridean news, and no not a lot of locals are as generous as you Frisky Python, I would recommend you watch it more often. I have often thought about moving back but they say dont stay where you are.
    Here here Jakojoe
  • Trsvis_BickleTrsvis_Bickle Posts: 9,202
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    Now that's the background. What I find quite disturbing though is the complete lack of compassion shown by people in this country towards this issue. Regardless of where you stand on the immigration issue, why do some people go on to describe these refugees as "scum" and suggest their boats get sunk or their planes blown up? (Both comments given on the FB pages of local newspapers). I can understand that people may not want them here, but to want to harm them to the point of killing them is inhumane.

    Is this what some people have become, inhumane with a lack of compassion?

    So, in a nutshell, you're getting all het up about a few hyperbolic comments posted on fakebook?

    Perhaps you're new to the interspaz but this sort of thing has been going on for some time now. In fact, it predates the internet. Have you ever heard anyone say to a friend 'Sometimes I could murder you'? Do you think that indicates that the individual is a genuine potential murderer. If you overheard such a comment, would you immediately rush to the police to prevent a murder?

    Or would you check the context, realise that it is not seriously meant and mentally dismiss it?

    Frankly, I think you're just looking for an excuse to indulge in a bit of moral one-upmanship by demonstrating how much more 'compassionate' you are by agonising about a few daft, anonymous comments on fakebook as if they actually meant something. ;-)
  • frisky pythonfrisky python Posts: 9,737
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    sherisgirl wrote: »
    I was born and brought up in kent, I have alot of family and friends there, family working at the ports, and from what I know frisky python a hell of alot of people living near ports a fed up to the back teeth with imigrants, Dover especially as that has so much History it has turned into a s***hole, on sky we often watch the Meridean news, and no not a lot of locals are as generous as you Frisky Python, I would recommend you watch it more often. I have often thought about moving back but they say dont stay where you are.
    Here here Jakojoe

    I watch the local news, I read it too (hence my posting on here). Again people seem to confuse compassion as if I'm advocating open borders when I'm not. It's been interesting though how my expression of compassion is being twisted in this way.
  • frisky pythonfrisky python Posts: 9,737
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    So, in a nutshell, you're getting all het up about a few hyperbolic comments posted on fakebook?

    Perhaps you're new to the interspaz but this sort of thing has been going on for some time now. In fact, it predates the internet. Have you ever heard anyone say to a friend 'Sometimes I could murder you'? Do you think that indicates that the individual is a genuine potential murderer. If you overheard such a comment, would you immediately rush to the police to prevent a murder?

    Or would you check the context, realise that it is not seriously meant and mentally dismiss it?

    Frankly, I think you're just looking for an excuse to indulge in a bit of moral one-upmanship by demonstrating how much more 'compassionate' you are by agonising about a few daft, anonymous comments on fakebook as if they actually meant something. ;-)

    The comments i've read today I have been reading for some time now. As you say yourself, they're nothing new really. It is not in the same vein as someone saying to another "sometimes I could murder you" and I'm shocked you would compare the two. Maybe in your walk of life you're used to hearing "send a plane of them over the ukraine, problem solved" or "sink the boat if it comes near here", but I'm not. Call it sheltered if you like, I call it decency.

    Again I am left wondering why compassion which is a human trait (well I thought it was, appears I'm wrong!) is seen as some way of moral one-upmanship.
  • dekafdekaf Posts: 8,398
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    I watch the local news, I read it too (hence my posting on here). Again people seem to confuse compassion as if I'm advocating open borders when I'm not. It's been interesting though how my expression of compassion is being twisted in this way.

    How has it been twisted? If anything, you and a few others are doing the twisting, but then, as you say, this is D.S after all.
  • dekafdekaf Posts: 8,398
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    The comments i've read today I have been reading for some time now. As you say yourself, they're nothing new really. It is not in the same vein as someone saying to another "sometimes I could murder you" and I'm shocked you would compare the two. Maybe in your walk of life you're used to hearing "send a plane of them over the ukraine, problem solved" or "sink the boat if it comes near here", but I'm not. Call it sheltered if you like, I call it decency.

    Again I am left wondering why compassion which is a human trait (well I thought it was, appears I'm wrong!) is seen as some way of moral one-upmanship.

    Yes indeed. From you! The most compassionate person in the world, or certainly on DS anyway. For goodness sake, get off your soap-box, and get a reality check.
  • HenryGartenHenryGarten Posts: 24,800
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    dekaf wrote: »
    How has it been twisted? If anything, you and a few others are doing the twisting, but then, as you say, this is D.S after all.

    It has made her feel awfully superior to us lot that are not tuned into the same compassion channels as the OP.
  • Trsvis_BickleTrsvis_Bickle Posts: 9,202
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    The comments i've read today I have been reading for some time now. As you say yourself, they're nothing new really. It is not in the same vein as someone saying to another "sometimes I could murder you" and I'm shocked you would compare the two. Maybe in your walk of life you're used to hearing "send a plane of them over the ukraine, problem solved" or "sink the boat if it comes near here", but I'm not. Call it sheltered if you like, I call it decency.

    Again I am left wondering why compassion which is a human trait (well I thought it was, appears I'm wrong!) is seen as some way of moral one-upmanship.

    For someone who has spent most of the thread bemoaning the lack of posters grasping your point, you seem remarkably determined to miss mine.

    To repeat myself, these comments are not heartfelt and if you are seeking evidence of people's genuine feelings and motivations from fakebook, you are either sadly deluded or simply looking to have your faux hand-wringing lamentations about human nature 'confirmed'.
  • .Lauren..Lauren. Posts: 7,864
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    Croctacus wrote: »
    If they're in France, an already safe country, then they are not refugees.

    I feel sorry for the French having to deal with them but maybe they need to tighten up their own border controls by not allowing them in from other neighbouring safe countries in the first place.

    These people are not anything to do with the UK.

    Yep and trying to fob them off on us 'to show us the size of the problem' is a weak attempt to get us deal with it.

    Most countries have their own immigration problems, they are on French soil and as such, are France's responsibility.
  • daziechaindaziechain Posts: 12,124
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    Compassion? are you joking.They are not our problem,our country is in a complete mess and your worrying about how these people are being treated,who cares?
    When you have to flee this country for your own safety then you might have a clue about their plight.
  • bluebladeblueblade Posts: 88,859
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    daziechain wrote: »
    When you have to flee this country for your own safety then you might have a clue about their plight.

    So, remind me again. Why do they need to flee France for their safety ?
  • HenryGartenHenryGarten Posts: 24,800
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    daziechain wrote: »
    When you have to flee this country for your own safety then you might have a clue about their plight.

    So many of the people at Calais have been forced to flee their own country?

    Are their own countries empty now?
  • annette kurtenannette kurten Posts: 39,543
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    It has made her feel awfully superior to us lot that are not tuned into the same compassion channels as the OP.

    it`s not made me feel superior, it`s made feel really sad and quite worried for the future. i cannot speak for the op but i`d imagine she feels similar.
  • tour de forcetour de force Posts: 4,029
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    daziechain wrote: »
    When you have to flee this country for your own safety then you might have a clue about their plight.


    Why ? Are you planning a coup d'etat ?

    Can I be the Minister for Care and Compassion in your new regime ? Anyone found not displaying the state imposed minimum C&C under my watch will be deported to France in a leaky boat, with nothing more than a mini baguette and and some pilchards.
    .
  • Trsvis_BickleTrsvis_Bickle Posts: 9,202
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    daziechain wrote: »
    When you have to flee this country for your own safety then you might have a clue about their plight.

    If things really were so bad back in my home country, I'd be pretty grateful that there was a civilised safe haven like western Europe to which to flee in the first place. Frankly, a whole load of folks' pity on fakebook would be of far less practical value.
  • dekafdekaf Posts: 8,398
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    it`s not made me feel superior, it`s made feel really sad and quite worried for the future. i cannot speak for the op but i`d imagine she feels similar.


    Me to, for the people involved. This problem is getting more and more worse, and more and more violent, and needs to be stopped. It's not good for the migrants, it's not good for the people living in Calais, it's not good for people going about their business, and it's not good for Britain.
  • lubaluba Posts: 1,314
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    We already have more than enough immigrants here already.
    For a small island we are way overloaded.
    I am sorry for them but that is as far as it goes.
    Really don't want them here.
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