Should a re-vote be called?

television2004television2004 Posts: 2,317
Forum Member
✭✭✭
If Scotland votes yes, we have a lot of uncertainty as to what is going to happen in the next 18 months.
When the terms and conditions have been worked out, what would be the case for rUK and Scotland having a vote on do we accept them?
The vote would be something like.
Do you accept the terms of Scottish independence?
YES
NO.
IF no Scotland returns to the UK!
«13

Comments

  • Net NutNet Nut Posts: 10,286
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    If Scotland votes yes, we have a lot of uncertainty as to what is going to happen in the next 18 months.
    When the terms and conditions have been worked out, what would be the case for rUK and Scotland having a vote on do we accept them?
    The vote would be something like.
    Do you accept the terms of Scottish independence?
    YES
    NO.
    IF no Scotland returns to the UK!

    Good idea.
  • TankyTanky Posts: 3,647
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    The referendum was agreed upon with the Scottish parliament and UK government, why would we go back on our word for them to independence?

    Whatever the outcome of the vote for independence, the UK government will acknowledge their decision.
  • paulschapmanpaulschapman Posts: 35,536
    Forum Member
    If Scotland votes yes, we have a lot of uncertainty as to what is going to happen in the next 18 months.
    When the terms and conditions have been worked out, what would be the case for rUK and Scotland having a vote on do we accept them?
    The vote would be something like.
    Do you accept the terms of Scottish independence?
    YES
    NO.
    IF no Scotland returns to the UK!

    This is of course one of the issues with the independence debate - Alex Salmond has wanted independence but has not thought how it would work in practice.

    Personally I do not think Scotland will find it easy - it will be indebted, a slower economy, high taxes. It might even happen that in a couple of decades Scotland will want to return to the UK - just as happened when James VI of Scotland became James

    Regardless of that opinion - if the Scottish decide to leave the UK - then that decision stands.
  • television2004television2004 Posts: 2,317
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Tanky wrote: »
    The referendum was agreed upon with the Scottish parliament and UK government, why would we go back on our word for them to independence?

    Whatever the outcome of the vote for independence, the UK government will acknowledge their decision.

    Agreed but will the rUK and Scottish people agree to the terms.
    These will effect everyone in the UK not just Scotland.
    Are we saying independence at any cost?
  • Net NutNet Nut Posts: 10,286
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Tanky wrote: »
    The referendum was agreed upon with the Scottish parliament and UK government, why would we go back on our word for them to independence?.

    It would be too important not to that's why.
  • TankyTanky Posts: 3,647
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    You fail to understand that the UK has signed a treaty, for Scotland to hold a referendum for independence. This decision will be upheld by the UK government, if they weren't going to let Scotland go independent, they wouldn't have agreed in the first place. Regardless, the public won't have a say on what the terms are, this will be worked out by the politicians.
  • SpotSpot Posts: 25,124
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    What if Salmond cannot negotiate the agreement he has promised (very likely) and it takes longer than anticipated (also very likely) and he is voted out in 2016 before Scotland has left the UK. The new government's manifesto has been to promise that separation will not take place unless acceptable terms can be agreed, and this does not happen. They therefore say they wish to remain in the UK.

    Is that possible?
  • allfiredupallfiredup Posts: 2,994
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    So its not a vote on independence, its a vote on whether we should through all the hassle of working out a package that if the Scottish didn't like then they could vote to stay...

    They need to grow some balls and just stick with their decision.
  • television2004television2004 Posts: 2,317
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    allfiredup wrote: »
    So its not a vote on independence, its a vote on whether we should through all the hassle of working out a package that if the Scottish didn't like then they could vote to stay...

    They need to grow some balls and just stick with their decision.

    The vote would be for the whole of the UK not just Scotland. The terms would effect citizens south of the border!
    The rUK may say yes and kick Scotland out anyway!
  • deptfordbakerdeptfordbaker Posts: 22,368
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    If Scotland votes yes, we have a lot of uncertainty as to what is going to happen in the next 18 months.
    When the terms and conditions have been worked out, what would be the case for rUK and Scotland having a vote on do we accept them?
    The vote would be something like.
    Do you accept the terms of Scottish independence?
    YES
    NO.
    IF no Scotland returns to the UK!

    Sounds like something the EU would approve of.
  • TankyTanky Posts: 3,647
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    The vote would be for the whole of the UK not just Scotland. The terms would effect citizens south of the border!
    The rUK may say yes and kick Scotland out anyway!

    This is all hypothetical, that the public will have any say, the UK government will be handling the negotiations with the Scottish. I can't remember much public involvement in negotiations, the government will just go ahead and make the decisions for us, as the UK representative. Besides, a referendum takes a lot of resources and time to get organised, it took years in the making for the Scottish Referendum, it very unlikely that an referendum would be organised in the space of a couple of months after a possible independence.

    What the Scottish referendum means, is a mandate or will of the Scottish people for independence. The UK being the democracy that it is, won't go against the wishes of the people of Scotland. This doesn't mean the UK government will give Scotland whatever it wants.
  • delegate zerodelegate zero Posts: 2,632
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Tanky wrote: »
    This is all hypothetical, that the public will have any say, the UK government will be handling the negotiations with the Scottish. I can't remember much public involvement in negotiations, the government will just go ahead and make the decisions for us, as the UK representative. Besides, a referendum takes a lot of resources and time to get organised, it took years in the making for the Scottish Referendum, it very unlikely that an referendum would be organised in the space of a couple of months after a possible independence.

    What the Scottish referendum means, is a mandate or will of the Scottish people for independence. The UK being the democracy that it is, won't go against the wishes of the people of Scotland. This doesn't mean the UK government will give Scotland whatever it wants.
    no but both sides are comitted to working together in the interests of both nations
  • TankyTanky Posts: 3,647
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    no but both sides are comitted to working together in the interests of both nations

    However there are certain conditions that both sides will not agree on, for example the Currency Union. It will still boil down to the best interests of their own country, as each will be separate nations.
  • delegate zerodelegate zero Posts: 2,632
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Tanky wrote: »
    However there are certain conditions that both sides will not agree on, for example the Currency Union. It will still boil down to the best interests of their own country, as each will be separate nations.

    there will be a currency union, they just won't call it a currency union, to save Westminster blushes.

    monetary partnership, shadowing, something like that
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,017
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    If Scotland votes yes, we have a lot of uncertainty as to what is going to happen in the next 18 months.
    When the terms and conditions have been worked out, what would be the case for rUK and Scotland having a vote on do we accept them?
    The vote would be something like.
    Do you accept the terms of Scottish independence?
    YES
    NO.
    IF no Scotland returns to the UK!

    No. They should lie in their bed, and accept their fate.
  • TankyTanky Posts: 3,647
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    there will be a currency union, they just won't call it a currency union, to save Westminster blushes.

    monetary partnership, shadowing, something like that

    That's a very big assumption, when the UK government has already said "no" to it twice. They don't have to agree to such an arrangement.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,017
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    there will be a currency union, they just won't call it a currency union, to save Westminster blushes.

    monetary partnership, shadowing, something like that

    I think, and I hope, you are dreaming.

    I would be completely against that. And I'm not joking either.
  • MeepersMeepers Posts: 5,502
    Forum Member
    The referendum needed is one in the rUK in the case of a No vote as to whether Scotland should be accepted back as part of the UK or be kicked out..
  • MeepersMeepers Posts: 5,502
    Forum Member
    there will be a currency union, they just won't call it a currency union, to save Westminster blushes.

    monetary partnership, shadowing, something like that

    No their wont be. The referendum needed to implement it would be lost in the UK. Any matter of such constitutional importance is put to referendums, and with a massive public opinion against any form of currency union in the rUK its a certainty to be lost.
  • steveh31steveh31 Posts: 13,516
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    One other issue here no one has mentioned if the general election happens next year then in effect Scotland could start negotiating with a Con/Lib government then in 9 months time be negotiating with a Labour or Lab/Lib government.

    If this is the case then could the next general election, which may have nothing to do with Scotland be decided by policies that are all about Scotland?

    Will Scotland have an advantage in negotiations as the people they are negotiating with might not be the ones who ultimately agree to things?
  • jjwalesjjwales Posts: 48,569
    Forum Member
    Meepers wrote: »
    The referendum needed is one in the rUK in the case of a No vote as to whether Scotland should be accepted back as part of the UK or be kicked out..

    Scotland wouldn't have left the UK, so the question of "accepting it back" doesn't arise.
  • David TeeDavid Tee Posts: 22,833
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    there will be a currency union, they just won't call it a currency union, to save Westminster blushes.

    monetary partnership, shadowing, something like that

    Good grief.

    How many times does it need to be said before it finally sinks it that there will NOT be a currency union?
  • northantsgirlnorthantsgirl Posts: 4,663
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    A confirmation referendum should really be held after negotiations but as this hasn't been factored in before then is it too late now. Also I now think the rest of the UK would demand to be included and that could get messy. Attitudes are now hardening and if the Scots vote yes then the English public will now force them out come what may.
  • AxtolAxtol Posts: 8,480
    Forum Member
    No that would be against the spirit of a referendum. The UK government and Scottish government have both agreed on the referendum and that they will respect the decision of that vote. If Scotland voted for independence, it would be undemocratic for the UK government to do anything but grant that.
  • MandarkMandark Posts: 47,963
    Forum Member
    Spot wrote: »
    What if Salmond cannot negotiate the agreement he has promised (very likely) and it takes longer than anticipated (also very likely) and he is voted out in 2016 before Scotland has left the UK. The new government's manifesto has been to promise that separation will not take place unless acceptable terms can be agreed, and this does not happen. They therefore say they wish to remain in the UK.

    Is that possible?
    A very interesting question. If the Scottish Labour Party took over the parliament and then announced that it had a mandate to keep the Union, who knows what chaos could result? I could easily see things turning to Irish style political violence.
Sign In or Register to comment.